See other 9/11 Articles
Title: What are the Goals in the 9/11 Truth Community?
Source:
[None]
URL Source: http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20070111110921739
Published: Jan 11, 2007
Author: Steven E. Jones
Post Date: 2007-01-11 17:17:31 by honway
Ping List: *9-11* Subscribe to *9-11*
Keywords: None
Views: 167
Comments: 12
What are the Goals in the 9/11 Truth Community? Steven E. Jones December 22, 2006, revised January 9, 2007 Consider this statement made a few weeks ago by Dr. Frank Legge, Kevin Ryan, Victoria Ashley and other (previous) members of the Scholars for 9/11 Truth: "Further, on the Scholars' web site, positions are being promoted which are disputed by the scientists specializing in physical sciences from Scholars For 9/11 Truth. Attempts to correct this situation have failed. As of this date the web site continues to promote assertions which are unsupported by the evidence (ray-beams from space caused the demolitions, mini-nukes were used in the WTC towers, real commercial jets did not hit the WTC towers, etc.). We feel that the promotion of these ideas functions to distract from and discredit much of the other basic strong material challenging the official story of 9/11 which already exists - the stand down, the war games, the insider trading, the many strong points of evidence on the demolitions, etc.” How do we determine if ray-beams from space or mini-nuclear bombs were responsible for bringing down the WTC Towers? How do we know whether jets actually hit the Towers? While it is admittedly exciting to come up with fascinating new theories about 9/11, if we wish to bring the perpetrators of the horrific 9/11 crimes to justice, we have to exert discretion and discipline by ferreting out those ideas repudiated by the physical evidence. We should consider these ideas, yes, but we do not need to endlessly debate all such issues. We can move on and focus on the solid forensic evidence which lends a hope of attracting the involvement of a criminal prosecutor and of holding up in court or before Congress. As scientists, we look at the evidence, perform experiments, and apply the Scientific Method. The Greek method was to look at the evidence (superficially) and then try to explain things through logic and debate. The Greeks came up with various ideas in this way – such as the geocentric theory in which the Earth was at the center of the universe, and all the stars and planets revolved around the earth. There were problems with this geocentric explanation, but Plato insisted that they must “save the hypothesis,” and plausible explanations were found to account for anomalies – such as the retrograde motion of Mars. The philosophical debates and discussions were seemingly endless; the Dark Ages ensued. Along came Copernicus, Galileo, Newton and others with their experiments and observations, and the centuries-old Greek philosophy-based notions began to crumble. Galileo observed through a telescope that Jupiter had moons – which revolved around Jupiter (not the Earth). He was threatened with torture if he did not recant his explanation (that the Earth was not at the center). He suffered house arrest but not torture as he quietly continued his experiments. In the lifetime of Newton, another experimenter who challenged the Greek approach, the scientific community worked out a system whereby scientific studies would be published after review by peers – qualified experts who could judge the quality of the research. Peer-reviewed technical journals arose and the peer-review process brought order to the relative chaos of work up to that time. Now experiments could be done and written up, then peer-reviewed and published. Peer-reviewed papers would draw the attention of others. To give an example of using the modern scientific method, a few colleagues and I are doing experiments and making observations in a scientific approach to what really happened at the World Trade Center. It is NOT merely a plausible explanation or debates about “possibilities” that we seek. Rather, having seen strong indications of foul play (see http://journalof911studies.com/Intersecting_Facts_and_Theories_on_911.pdf) we are looking for hard evidence that would clearly verify an intentional crime beyond that of 19 hijackers. Ours is a forensic investigation, looking for a “smoking gun,” which would then lead to a serious criminal investigation. I do not plan to make a career out of 9/11 research, and I am not making money from my investigations anyway. We need a formal, solid investigation of the 9/11 crimes committed, not a long-term study which endlessly debates all alternatives. I seek such solid evidence of an insider crime (beyond a reasonable doubt) that some of us will successfully demand a criminal investigation to confront key individuals who may have insider information – within one year, if possible-- not many. So what evidence is likely to lead to such a criminal investigation? As identified in my talk at the University of California at Berkeley, there are four areas of 9/11 research that are so compelling that they may quickly lead to the goal of a solid investigation of 9/11 as an un-solved crime scene. These four areas are: 1. Fall time for WTC 7. 2. Fall times for the Towers. 3. Challenging the NIST report and Fact Sheet. 4. Evidence for use of Thermate reactions: What the WTC dust and solidified metal reveal. Please note that I do not focus only on the thermate-hypothesis, and I do research in all four areas above. Details are given in my talk, available here: http://www.911blogger.com/node/4622 (Also: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9210704017463126290 ) There are other lines that may compel a criminal investigation even before one of the above “hard science” research lines bears fruit: 5. Whistleblower statements – including some individuals yet to emerge. 6. Who made the stock-market “put-option” trades on American and United Air Lines in the week before 9/11, indicating clear foreknowledge of the attacks coupled with greed? 7. The fact that the WTC dust was declared quite safe by the EPA/National Security Council when it fact scientists had proven it to be toxic, and the many people now clamoring for justice after being hurt and misled. 8. Calls for impeachment for war issues, e.g., from a state legislature or Congress, which scrutinizes the “Bush Doctrine,” then opens the 9/11 question. 9. Pressure from 9/11 Family members, firemen and others for answers. 10. Direct appeals to Senators and Congresspersons – who are charged with an oversight role. I initiated a Petition to this effect, demanding release of government-held information related to 9/11, which has since been signed by over 10,000 people. And I am in contact now with the Congressman from my state, seeking information and remedy. We have found evidence for thermates in the molten metal seen pouring from the South Tower minutes before its collapse, in the sulfidation and high-temperature corrosion of WTC steel, and in the residues found in the WTC dust. (Our sample originated from an apartment at 113 Cedar Street across from the WTC; chain of custody direct from the collector J. MacKinlay to Dr. Steven Jones). Many other details are given in the peer-reviewed paper here. Other cutter-charges such as HMX and RDX may have also been used; but again, solid evidence for just one type of incendiary or explosive would be sufficient to compel a criminal investigation. Experiments continue, as shown in the photos below, and the results are consistent with thermate having been used in on 9/11/2001. We have a series of experiments planned, along with analyses. This research takes time. 1999: “Invention offers a thermite based apparatus and method for cutting target material [eg, steel] of a substantial thickness... linear.. cutting action...” A prototype has been used to cut through a steel I-beam. Proof of Concept. The photograph at left shows the one-hole proto-type device I built to produce a thermate-jet. Thermate is the red powder in the steel base. The prototype worked well, and the thermate-jet cut through a piece of structural steel in a fraction of a second. My colleagues and I are pursuing thermate data as strong evidence for foul-play, and I encourage researchers to pursue all worthwhile areas of inquiry. One person can hardly pursue every line of inquiry, but I’m confident that one of these lines (above) will bear fruit in getting us to a serious, evidence-based investigation that leaves no stone unturned. In contrast the theory that no planes hit the towers does no stand up to scrutiny, as published in a peer-reviewed paper by Eric Salter, here. Salter shows that evidence for real planes hitting the Towers is compelling Papers regarding the following notions have been or are being prepared for the new Letters section of the Journal of 9/11 Studies: Mini-nukes exploding in the Towers on 9/11; Ray-beams used to bring the Towers down; comments/questions regarding papers by Reynolds and Wood. I anticipate and welcome questions regarding my published papers also. The editors of the Journal of 9/11 Studies invite questions and answers in the Letters section, as a means to bring the debate to a civilized, scientific forum. In Newton’s day, there were various verbal attacks and debates among scientists, including attacks against Newton by Gottfried Leibniz and Robert Hooke. Considerable order was brought to the scientific community by requiring that articles and letters be published in peer-reviewed journals, so that the world would have a public record of the debates. This procedure also encouraged careful thought and respectful questioning and responding, and the use of scientific venues continues today. If questions are brought to me in this spirit of collegiality in this publication or another peer-reviewed Journal, I will be most happy to respond. Again, endless debates of a verbal or on-line-equivalent nature are not appropriate scientific venues and I do not intend to participate in those. The editors of the Journal of 9/11 Studies will allow response Letters to be published in the Journal without formal peer-review, on a trial basis, to encourage public publication of various views. The requirements for publication will be: relevance, respectful civility, posing specific questions, answering all questions existing in the relevant Letter before posing new ones, and avoiding “straw-man” and ad hominem arguments. The scientific method (including publishing in Journals) includes evidence- based challenges to hypotheses, and rejection of hypotheses which fail to conform to the empirical data. Without this, we might still be debating whether the earth was flat, or at the center of the universe! I have been asked, regarding the thermite-in-WTC hypothesis in my paper, “Exactly where did it need to be placed? ...How thick would it have to be against various steel columns, beams, concrete, etc.? How many hours of labor would it take to cover every surface of the building, carefully avoiding detection by WTC office workers? Exactly who placed all the alleged thermite there? Please give us their names, ages, and social security numbers for validation.” (M. Reynolds and J. Wood, “The Scientific Method Applied to the Thermite Hypothesis,” Dec. 2006) Clearly, the answers to most of these questions will require a criminal investigation and cannot be determined from scientific analysis of the physical evidence. We cannot realistically be expected to answer all the “whodunit” and “exactly where” questions before a criminal investigation and trial begin! But that does not mean that scientific analysis is unimportant. For example, although various cutter-charges could have been used, if we can once establish that thermate-class residues are found in the WTC rubble and dust, then a criminal investigation will indeed be necessitated -- to determine who was responsible. Do you see the difference in focus, from unrealistically requiring all the answers up front, to seeking sufficient evidence to motivate a criminal investigation and trial to get at more answers? The NFPA 921Guide for Fire and Explosion Investigations states: “Unusual residues might remain from the initial fuel. Those residues could arise from thermite, magnesium, or other pyrotechnic materials.” This is standard for fire and explosion investigations – Why was the standard not applied to the WTC “crime scene”? I’m saying it should be. And as with other crime-scene investigations, once a pyrotechnic material’s presence has been established, then the next step is a criminal investigation to determine who planted the pyrotechnic (such as thermate). It is not correct that I as a scientist in the laboratory have to answer the questions of names, ages, social security numbers, etc. anymore than an arson investigator, once he has demonstrated that accelerant residues were present so that a crime has been established, must himself provide the names and addresses of the arsonists who committed the crime. The identities will emerge from the criminal investigation that follows. I encourage all serious researchers to join now the research effort to pin down hard evidences and work towards a criminal investigation – perhaps by a Congressional committee, perhaps by a special prosecutor. Whatever body conducts the investigation, they will need hard evidences AND public support. In conclusion, it is proposed that we: 1. Get very solid evidence that a crime was committed – focusing on the best evidence, enough to "prove" the case. 2. Then, use that evidence to demand and support an investigation; 3. Get as much public support as possible to help encourage the investigation; 4. Have a goal of organizing such an investigation in 2007. Anything that takes resources or distracts from these goals should be ignored. So, we have some action items: 1. Continue good scientific research; 2. Work on getting the right contacts for starting an investigation; 3. Continue to inform the public. Keep that information campaign to the most convincing ideas and NOT muddy the waters with exotic theories. These can, however, be discussed via published Letters as explained above, so that we can sort out the wheat from the chaff scientifically. Let’s roll up our sleeves and focus, all of us who agree that a major goal is to GET A CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION (and trial) rather than engaging in endless debates. It is time to unite and seek an end to the 9/11 wars by bringing out the truth of what happened on 9/11. We seek truth, justice – and peace. Acknowledgments: Thanks for valuable input from Frank Legge, Shaun Taulbee, Victoria Ashley, Carl Weis, and Lon Waters. Be sure to visit the new Letters section at The Journal of 9/11 Studies website.
In a fraction of a second, thermate cuts horizontally through a steel cup. Notice the high-temperature corrosion which occurred.
Post Comment Private Reply Ignore Thread
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest
#1. To: All (#0)
http://www.journalof911studies.com/ Journal of 911 Studies The Journal of 9/11 Studies is a peer-reviewed, open-access, electronic-only journal covering the whole of research related to 9/11/2001. All content is freely available online. Thank you for visiting The Journal of 911 Studies. With respect to the current dispute over management of the organization Scholars for 911 Truth, our position is that the Journal is independent of this issue, and of any potential outcome. Both during and after the resolution of this dispute, we hope to continue our efforts to provide evidence-based, peer-reviewed research that furthers the cause of truth and justice. Sincerely,
Thank you for this post.
"Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win." Sun-tzu
I have a question. As a matter of credibility, how does Dr Jones verify the validity of his original source of WTC material on which he found thermite? You know.. the 'anonymous lady' who saw a dirty WTC monument, and brushed it off and put the excess material in a bucket, and let it set for a long time before reading Jones paper and contacting him, sending him some of it,.. that is the most asinine and convoluted incredible story I've heard. Does all of his thermite research stem from this dubious, at best, sample? Don't get me wrong, I think it's an obvious inside job too, but.. Aside from attacking Jones thesis, have skeptics questioned this story about the credibility or verifiability of the sample source of on which all his theories rest? If not, they should.
This guy is dreaming. There will never be a criminal investigation of the REAL perpetrators of 911 and Jones should be smart enough to know that. I got a sick feeling that he is trying to pin the blame of the mass conspiracy of 9/11 onto a few bad guys in high places. This is BS. 9/11 cannot be blamed on a few evil men, it is a mass conspiracy of major media, politicians, and government and military officials. It is a sign the NWO has firm control of the USA and this nation is no longer free. Jones should be smart enough to recognize this, so I have to wonder what he is real intentions are here.
God is always good! i hate to be negative, but, honestly, that's the way i'm feeling now. i thought the 911 Truth Movement was really on a roll when Alex Jones had the LA Conference in June (which i attended along with 2k+ others) with Charlie Sheen and a lineup of several very impressive researchers as speakers. You recall it was aired on C-Span several times. there seemed to be alot of publicity. then the november election where not one candidate who called for a re- investigation was elected and, of course, now it's old news to most americans. another government crime swept under the rug.
At one time, I took Dr. Jones at face value. What you have to realize is that there is clear as day evidence that is right in everyone's face, yet the "experts" are ignoring it. The coverup is more elaborate than the operation itself it appears. It's obvious that they thought of what to say and what to do well ahead of time.
The coverup is more elaborate than the operation itself it appears. You can add to the "in your face" evidence: IN FACT, it is the stand-down of NORAD that got to my brother-in-law. He's a die hard Bush fan, and fell for the "official story" entirely. He even believed the bullshit hyped on FOX news that indeed WMDs were found!!! I had tried several times to get him to actually use his brain and apply a little common sense to 9/11 - always to no avail. He'd just say something like "you need to quit listening to all those 'conspiracy kooks'". Then one day I asked him how come NORAD didn't respond (he's ex-military, and the military does no wrong to him). He thought about that one for a minute and replied "NORAD is only for incoming missiles"... I told him "NO - it's for ALL air defense. That's what the AD part of the name is. Don't you remember when Payne Stewart's charter jet went off course? Within 15 minutes NORAD had 2 fighter jets so close they were looking in the cockpit and giving the report that everyone in the crew was unconscious. So WHY couldn't they "tail" even 1 out of 4 hijacked commercial airliners within 1½ hours on 9/11?" He didn't have a reply. It clearly gave him reason to pause for some in-depth thought for the first time. And almost immediately I asked about building 7. He didn't seem to even KNOW about building 7!!! That has been the other biggest "eye opener" I've found when trying to get someone to take a serious look at the matter. Most of the time I get a response like "What do you mean building 7?"
No matter how noble the objectives of a government; if it blurs decency and kindness, cheapens human life, and breeds ill will and suspicion - it is an EVIL government. Eric Hoffer
then the november election where not one candidate who called for a re- investigation was elected and, of course, now it's old news to most americans. another government crime swept under the rug. I didn't even realize there was a candidate who was calling for a re-investigation, but you would know better than me. Overall though, I agree with your assessment. I feel the same way - it's just old news, we don't give a damn anymore, time to forget about it and move on. In fact it seems if I bring it up to anyone that's still a believer in the "official story" they just respond with "you're still harping on that?"... I'm about to the point where I don't even give a damn. I know what's happening, and have a plan on what to do about it. And unfortunately, all I can do about it is act on a personal level - and to hell with whatever happens to everybody else. I HATE feeling that way (!!!), but then again why should I care what happens to folks that are in a coma anyhow? That's why I like it here on 4um - I feel as I have gotten to know a few that I can care about what happens to.
No matter how noble the objectives of a government; if it blurs decency and kindness, cheapens human life, and breeds ill will and suspicion - it is an EVIL government. Eric Hoffer
bump
The enormous out-of-whack amount of put options on the involved airlines The stand-down of NORAD Those things along with many others are certainly evidence, but not definitive evidence. Those I listed are definitive evidence that the "official story" is BS, as the facts I listed proves that it is IMPOSSIBLE for the official story to be true. It is those specific things that if they were factually reported on the evening news, MOST if not ALL of the sheep would realize that what they have been told is wrong, and 9/11 more than likely was an inside job.
feeling's mutual. i've grown quite fond of you and your ladybug.
Awwwwwwww, Gee, what can I say but thanks :}
"Don't Steal, the government hates competition."
Kevin Ryan, co-editor
#2. To: honway (#1)
#3. To: honway, formerlurker, robin, christine, All, anyone? (#1)
#4. To: honway (#0)
(Edited)
I do not plan to make a career out of 9/11 research, and I am not making money from my investigations anyway. We need a formal, solid investigation of the 9/11 crimes committed, not a long-term study which endlessly debates all alternatives. I seek such solid evidence of an insider crime (beyond a reasonable doubt) that some of us will successfully demand a criminal investigation to confront key individuals who may have insider information – within one year, if possible-- not many.
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
#5. To: honway (#0)
#6. To: Artisan, christine, robin, innieway, Jethro Tull, Ricky J, HOUNDDAWG, Red Jones, Diana, All (#3)
Does all of his thermite research stem from this dubious, at best, sample?
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#7. To: FormerLurker (#6)
(Edited)
What you have to realize is that there is clear as day evidence that is right in everyone's face, yet the "experts" are ignoring it.
#8. To: christine (#5)
i hate to be negative, but, honestly, that's the way i'm feeling now.
#9. To: innieway. everyone here (#8)
That's why I like it here on 4um - I feel as I have gotten to know a few that I can care about what happens to.
#10. To: innieway (#7)
You can add to the "in your face" evidence:
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#11. To: innieway, ladybug (#8)
That's why I like it here on 4um - I feel as I have gotten to know a few that I can care about what happens to.
#12. To: christine (#11)
feeling's mutual. i've grown quite fond of you and your ladybug.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest