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Title: Are biblical spouting “patriots” head cases?
Source: [None]
URL Source: [None]
Published: Jan 23, 2007
Author: me
Post Date: 2007-01-23 09:25:29 by Jethro Tull
Keywords: None
Views: 5525
Comments: 308

Yeah, they are. I’m amazed at the arrogance of some self professed “patriot” Christians. IMHO, they do more to fracture those of us who get it than any elitist agenda ever could. They are unwitting foot soldiers of the globalists.

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All that matters to me is that you aren't for open borders. That would make us amigos on this issue, el correcto?

Yes, but ineffective ones because your arguments (which won't work) are the ones that get the media spotlight and thus destroy the winning closed border argument.

I have noticed that while I am a conservative - my conservatism arises from the European civilizational view - old school Latin Republic - Pericles - Code of Justinian, Locke, Burke and so on. American so called conservatives for the most part are not true conservatives - - so while we may be on the same page on many things - why I am where I am you are where you are are different.

"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom

Destro  posted on  2007-01-24   15:36:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

thus destroy the winning closed border argument.

Truth be known, the argument is all but lost. The NAU is nearing completion and the CFR membership has begun to chill the champagne. All this while the conspiracy minded among us look under rocks for Fr. O'Malley and his legions of Jesuits rulers. Lordy we're soooooooooo screwed.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2007-01-24   15:45:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Who is for or against open borders is not cut and dried.

While I am against open borders - my reasons are not the same as those of others - my reasons being logical and rational while most of the other types want to close the border because of racial and religious reasons (irrational).

In other words I am against open immigration for economic reasons more so than cultural ones. Those that argue cultural reasons are playing with a losing hand/argument and thus those are the types the media highlights. Thus the media wants people like you using those arguments fronting the closed border debate.

The media wants "people like me" fronting the closed border debate? Say what? I think you have me confused with someone else on this forum.

I rarely get involved in immigration debates and when I do my position has been fairly consistent and straight forward. I feel that immigration should be primarily skills-based and not family reunification as it is now. I'm not anti- immigration because of cultural considerations although with the current stress on multiculturalism as opposed to melting pot assimilation, culture has become ghettoizing and divisive to our society. If I appear to be not thrilled with unbridled daisy chain Third World immigration, it's because those immigrants rarely have the skills our nation needs with the exception being immigrants from India or Iran who are generally well educated coming into America or are at the very least highly motivated and educatable so as to excel in professional training.

I am opposed to illegal immigration because it breaks our laws on the books that legal immigrants have respected and queued for for many years in some cases. Illegal immigration also brings in the mix an assortment of societal ills including drugs and disease.

So how can my position be construed to be anti-immigration, close the borders mindset? In fact, some posters have accused me of being too acquiescent to the guest worker plan being a fact of life - which I still think is the case especially after yesterday's state of the union's mess speech.

As for religion's involvement in illegal immigration, I was merely responding to comments made by other posters - of course religios groups are not the only enablers of illegal immigration. I did not say that.

scrapper2  posted on  2007-01-24   15:46:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

The media wants "people like me" fronting the closed border debate? Say what? I think you have me confused with someone else on this forum.

Using the royal we - people who are screaming the WETBACKS are running us over (oh my gawd - there might be some race mixing going on!) as a justification for closing the border get pumped by the media - people like me in my camp that are against immigration be it from Mexico or Poland because of economic reasons get marginalized.

If the USA was still a manufacturing country where immigrants melded together on assembly lines shoulder to shoulder so they could not communicate much in their native tongues because immigration was coming from everywhere and thus were forced to learn English and adopt American ways then I would be for open borders. The manufacturing sector was also a way for a poor illiterate person to be able to earn a livable wage right off the boat. The manufacturing sector was the reason the USA was able to meld all those people into new Americans.

Since we are now a service economy that means immigrants of low education can only get lowly jobs and get ghettoized easier and remain in the ghettos longer. You can't easily climb your way out doing odd jobs for slave wages.

My position on being pro closed borders is complicated - not easily digestible and thus not processed. All you hear are rednecks screaming about not being able to hear English being spoken at dollar stores anymore.

Poor ignorant suckers.

"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom

Destro  posted on  2007-01-24   15:57:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

See my response above to scrapper.

"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom

Destro  posted on  2007-01-24   15:59:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

scrapper: The media wants "people like me" fronting the closed border debate? Say what? I think you have me confused with someone else on this forum.

Destro: Using the royal we - people who are screaming the WETBACKS are running us over (oh my gawd - there might be some race mixing going on!) as a justification for closing the border get pumped by the media - people like me in my camp that are against immigration be it from Mexico or Poland because of economic reasons get marginalized.

I still don't understand why you are directing your self-righteous post at me.

I have never used the word "wetback" in my entire life.

I suggest you re-read this thread and get a handle on the poster associated with that derogatory term and direct your future tirades to that person. Thank you very much..

scrapper2  posted on  2007-01-24   16:04:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

regardless - I used my replay to you to elaborate so it all worked out in the end.

You are correct about me being self righteous. I need to work on my humility.

"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom

Destro  posted on  2007-01-24   16:06:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

You are correct about me being self righteous. I need to work on my humility.

I will pray for you. Tom 4:57

Jethro Tull  posted on  2007-01-24   16:16:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

regardless - I used my replay to you to elaborate so it all worked out in the end.

You are correct about me being self righteous. I need to work on my humility.

You are rude and you are wrong in your nonsensical tirade at me for no reason.

I have always been consistent in my position that immigration should be skills based and my position is no different than your economics schpeel. It's not like either of us are geniuses for seeing the obvious and that's why poll after poll shows that our current immigration policy - placing family reunification as a priority - is broken and why Americans by a significant margin are pissed with our nation's immigration policy directions today both legal and illegal.

Nothing you just did or said to me on this thread "worked." You accused me falsely and you don't even have the courtesy to apologize for your error. What you "need to work on" are your facts, your honesty, and your manners.

scrapper2  posted on  2007-01-24   16:16:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

You are rude and you are wrong in your nonsensical tirade at me for no reason.

My tirades are never nonsensical though I agree I may have been rude.

"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom

Destro  posted on  2007-01-24   16:18:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

My tirades are never nonsensical though I agree I may have been rude.

The fact that you directed your accusatory tirade at the wrong person ( ie. me) without apologizing for your mistake would qualify as both a GIANT rude and GIANT nonsensical action.

scrapper2  posted on  2007-01-24   16:26:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

I don't myself agree with the assertion at top of this thread, that people who quote bible are 'head cases'. But people say this out of frustration, and i sure don't blame them for being that way.

I don't use the term 'rapture nutter' or rapture monkey. but I admit the phenomenon does occur, and I don't agree with the people who fall in that category.

I like the bible, I think it's a very good thing.

If Allthekingshorseswontdoit's interpretations are correct (& I personally think they mostly are), then it means this god is willing to let us be exposed to evil. and that is the way I read the bible, that he is willing to let evil happen to us.

IMHO the beginning of wisdom is fear of the lord. and he's bringing that forth to us.

Galatians 3:29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Red Jones  posted on  2007-01-24   16:33:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Apologize for what?

"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom

Destro  posted on  2007-01-24   16:42:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

My frustration stems from the divisiveness that *some* believers bring to the table. We’re at such an acute stage in American history that anything less than unity will work against us. It’s too late in the game to comb the catacombs for cryptic codes and clues. Ed Brown up in New Hampshire needs immediate help and our borders are under attack. Maybe we should do something about these things before deciding who is, or isn’t a true Christian.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2007-01-24   16:45:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Americans have re-embraced the Millerite wave of old.

"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom

Destro  posted on  2007-01-24   16:45:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Millerite

I'm glad you added a link. It's new to me and something I have no interest in. I'd prefer to drive ten-penny nails through my feet than be involved with that crew.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2007-01-24   16:49:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Apologize for what?

For your rude and mistaken identity posts #63 and #68 which you directed at me.

scrapper2  posted on  2007-01-24   16:55:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

In other words I am against open immigration for economic reasons more so than cultural ones.

i'm in complete agreement with you on that one.

christine  posted on  2007-01-24   17:42:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Economic reasons are the only reasons I see posted here.

The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws. – Tacitus

robin  posted on  2007-01-24   17:45:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

i agree, robin. for most here, that is the principle concern although many are averse to the multiculturalism ideology preferring a protectionist monocultural nation-state.

christine  posted on  2007-01-24   18:01:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

The "cure" for most of those problems is the rate of assimilation. That's the argument put forward by Victor Davis Hanson in "Mexifornia". The rate has increased beyond what can be assimilated so the result is balkanization. He's no racist and neither am I. It's about a reasonable approach. The costs to our standard of living are difficult to estimate, the health costs (not just the once eradicated diseases), overcrowded schools, transportation, neighborhoods becoming barrios, etc.

I wouldn't be surprised if racism is increasing just because of the lack of controls.

The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws. – Tacitus

robin  posted on  2007-01-24   18:07:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Catholics and Jews and mainstream Protestants and Buddhists - just about all religious leaders are big sympathizers to illegals and unbridled legal immigration generally

This is what you invoke when you use that language:

G rover Cleveland was elected president in 1884 in one of the dirtiest election campaigns in our history........That morning, he made an appearance in New York City at a meeting of several hundred pro-Blaine Protestant clergymen. Reverend Samuel D. Burchard delivered a warm welcoming address which ended with the words: "We are Republicans, and don't propose to leave our party and identify ourselves with the party whose antecedents have been Rum, Romanism, and Rebellion." Blaine somehow missed the bigoted phrase, and did nothing to deny or repudiate it when he got up to speak. A reporter assigned by the Democrats to cover the meeting eagerly reported the mistake to the Democratic headquarters. When asked if Blaine "met this remark?" the reporter replied that Blaine had made no reference to it. The Democrats then spread the quote all over New York City and elsewhere. By the time Blaine finally got around to disavowing the remarks, it was too late. He lost thousands of votes among the Irish-American voters in the city.

"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom

Destro  posted on  2007-01-24   19:05:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Mexicans do not have manufacturing jobs that allow them to move up the ladder like had existed for immigrants in our past who came from cultures even more alien to America than the Mexican/Spanish culture - You have to stretch credibility very much to say Mexican culture is more removed from American culture than say the culture of Greek Americans or Russian Jews or Lebanese Arab Christians or Armenians. Yet these people melded into American culture and contributed greatly to this nation's wealth because their parents could pull themselves out of poverty.

How will that happen with no jobs in California that can allow this assimilation and upward mobility? So it is not that Mexicans can't become Americans - there is no catalyst to help the assimilation process with the end of American manufacturing.

"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom

Destro  posted on  2007-01-24   19:13:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

You will lose because you call them wetbacks

That's quite true, but you see, this is the 4um where racialism is expected.

"How legitimate is the Onion as a source?"----noone222

Redheadedstranger  posted on  2007-01-24   19:38:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

racialism is expected.

I consider racism a normal human trait. It can be altered, by some, on a voluntary basis, but when a politically correct society attempts to criminalize it, they actually get more of what they wish to eradicate. Stick that up your Anglo-Saxon ass you fat, balding, toothless horse humper.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2007-01-24   19:49:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

If Allthekingshorseswontdoit's interpretations are correct (& I personally think they mostly are), then it means this god is willing to let us be exposed to evil. and that is the way I read the bible, that he is willing to let evil happen to us.

Good response Red. I think we expose ourselves to most of the evil by living outside of righteousness. I think we rationalize our weaknesses.

You were right in analyzing the usage of derogatory terminology to describe Bible believers as rapture nutters etc., as frustration. Too many people have been obsessed with these scriptures for thousands of years to imagine them all to be nuts !

“The First Highest Masonic Council was, as we have already said, formed on 31st May 1801 in Charleston, 33 degrees northern latitude, under the chairmanship of the Jew Isaac Long, who was made inspector general by the Jew Moses Cohen, and who had received his degree from Hyes, from Franken, and the Jew Morin.”

noone222  posted on  2007-01-24   19:56:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

this is the 4um where racialism is expected.

Curious how you so willingly assimilated.

Nostalgia  posted on  2007-01-24   20:20:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

You must not live in the SouthWestern part of the U.S.

Some of the illegals here own homes and drive nice cars. Their children, through education can reach any level of achievement they want. Look at our AG, Alberto Gonzales, he already said his grandparents came here without papers.

http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/17/gonzales-grandparents-illegal/

BTW, Lou Dobbs is trying to get an investigation of why someone in a high level of the federal govt brough the whole force of the govt against two Border Patrol agents with exemplary 12 year records, and gave immunity to a Mexican drug dealer with $1 million in drugs.

The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws. – Tacitus

robin  posted on  2007-01-24   20:24:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Their children, through education can reach any level of achievement they want.

Illegal hispanics also take advantage of affirmative action (reverse racism), putting to rest the notion that AA was designed as a tool to off set 400 years of white racism against blacks.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2007-01-24   20:28:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

In the SouthWest there is a lot of competition for govt monies, between Black organizations and Latino. The Latinos have the Catholic Church to begin with, an unfair advantage. The Blacks feel the Latinos are reaping the benefits of everything they worked (and slaved) for; "on their coattails" is the expression I heard in an interview once.

And according to the news on prison riots and turf wars on the street, this rivalry is deepening.

The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws. – Tacitus

robin  posted on  2007-01-24   20:32:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

this rivalry is deepening.

I never did understand the silence of the black "leaders" we've come to know and love. They are getting along like oil and water in many cities.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2007-01-24   20:37:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Curious how you so willingly assimilated.

The last time I refused to assimilate and damn near got run off the board.

"How legitimate is the Onion as a source?"----noone222

Redheadedstranger  posted on  2007-01-24   22:10:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

I'm only one-quarter white, JT.

"How legitimate is the Onion as a source?"----noone222

Redheadedstranger  posted on  2007-01-24   22:10:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Since you’re half jackass, may I ask what the remaining 1/4 represents?

Jethro Tull  posted on  2007-01-24   22:18:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

scrapper2: Catholics and Jews and mainstream Protestants and Buddhists - just about all religious leaders are big sympathizers to illegals and unbridled legal immigration generally

destro: This is what you invoke when you use that language:

You are either a. delusionary or b. unable to comprehend the English language or c. your ego is so grand that you cannot admit to a mistake. What's your point or rather what's your problem, Destro?

Please use someone else for your moralizing didactic parable. You are barking up the wrong tree with me if you think I'm going to tolerate your nonsensical comments that are totally inapplicable to me, except in your short-circuited brain.

a. I am a Catholic so like the so-called "self-loathing Jew", I have upclose experience with Catholicism and Catholics to "have the right and the knowledge" to comment on the foibles and/or pluses of the Catholic religion and its adherents. I can generalize and stereotype as much as I want because I've been there and done the walk. In fact, I still do the walk but not as regularly as my family would like.

b. My response, which you quoted out of context, was to a poster who claimed that Catholics were the main enablers of illegal immigration. My rebuttal was that most religions (apart from evangelicals) were pro immigrants and Catholics were no exception - the tenets of most religions involve looking after and looking out for the disenfranchised, the poor, the underdogs looking for a better life - all God's creatures and all that good stuff. I added that in the case of Hispanic illegals, the Catholic leadership might be more vociferous than other religious leaders because Hispanics were Catholics. Duh.

c. Catholics generally are Democrats - it's a fact of life - most Catholics were Johnny Come Later immigrants and considered second class by the WASP establishment in America until recently when Kennedy made it to the Oval Office and he did it on the Democrat ticket.

To this day the Democrat Party promotes itself as one that looks out for minorities, the immigrant and Catholicism is big on that mindset. Statistically you'd probably find more Catholics identifying themselves as Democrats no matter what their economic status like the Jews do. Of course there are exceptions to the rule but generally what I say is true.

scrapper2  posted on  2007-01-24   22:38:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Some of the illegals here own homes and drive nice cars. Their children, through education can reach any level of achievement they want.

Rush Limbough facts. Show one guy who made it and t hus justify a whole policy based on that - standard modern GOP thinking.

"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom

Destro  posted on  2007-01-24   22:50:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Illegal hispanics also take advantage of affirmative action

And they will get an affirmative action job how if they are illegal? Does anyone here use reason?

"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom

Destro  posted on  2007-01-24   22:51:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Catholics generally are Democrats

"We are Republicans, and don't propose to leave our party and identify ourselves with the party whose antecedents have been Rum, Romanism, and Rebellion." - Protestant clergymen Reverend Samuel D. Burchard describing the menace of Irish Catholic immigration - 1884 presidential race - Republicans lost.

"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom

Destro  posted on  2007-01-24   22:56:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

ince you57;re half jackass, may I ask what the remaining 1/4 represents?

Hey, that's good, JT. Finally some real humor from you...

"How legitimate is the Onion as a source?"----noone222

Redheadedstranger  posted on  2007-01-24   22:57:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

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