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Title: WTC 7: Silverstein's "Pull It" Explanation Examined
Source:
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/silverstein_pullit.html
URL Source: http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/silverstein_pullit.html
Published: Feb 10, 2007
Author: M Rivero
Post Date: 2007-02-10 20:28:49 by Kamala
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Keywords: 911
Views: 46564
Comments: 467
WTC 7: Silverstein's "Pull It" Explanation Examined On September 9, 2005, Mr. Dara McQuillan, a spokesman for Silverstein Properties, issued the following statement on this issue: Seven World Trade Center collapsed at 5:20 p.m. on September 11, 2001, after burning for seven hours. There were no casualties, thanks to the heroism of the Fire Department and the work of Silverstein Properties employees who evacuated tenants from the building. ... In the afternoon of September 11, Mr. Silverstein spoke to the Fire Department Commander on site at Seven World Trade Center. The Commander told Mr. Silverstein that there were several firefighters in the building working to contain the fires. Mr. Silverstein expressed his view that the most important thing was to protect the safety of those firefighters, including, if necessary, to have them withdraw from the building. Later in the day, the Fire Commander ordered his firefighters out of the building and at 5:20 p.m. the building collapsed. No lives were lost at Seven World Trade Center on September 11, 2001. As noted above, when Mr. Silverstein was recounting these events for a television documentary he stated, “I said, you know, we've had such terrible loss of life. Maybe the smartest thing to do is to pull it.” Mr. McQuillan has stated that by “it,” Mr. Silverstein meant the contingent of firefighters remaining in the building. [US Department of State] There is a problem with the above statement, namely there were no firefighters in WTC 7: "No manual firefighting actions were taken by FDNY." [Fema Report] "There was no firefighting in WTC 7." [Popular Mechanics] "By 11:30 a.m., the fire commander in charge of that area, Assistant Chief Frank Fellini, ordered firefighters away from [WTC 7] for safety reasons." [New York Times] Let's have a look at Silverstein's full statement: "I remember getting a call from the, er, fire department commander, telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the fire, and I said, 'We've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it.' And they made that decision to pull and we watched the building collapse." WMV video download (490kB) In summary, the fire department commander said the fire could not be contained, Silverstein said "the smartest thing to do is pull it", and the fire department made the decision to pull. "Pull" is a term used in building demolition... "We're getting ready to pull Building 6" ... "We had to be very careful how we demolished Building 6..." WMV video download (564kB) ...but the US Department of State contends that Silverstein's "pull it" statement refers to withdrawing firefighters from WTC 7. If this was the case then firefighters should have received a message which said something like "World Trade 7 is unsafe. Abandon the building and withdraw from the area." Okay, let's have a look at the language used by firefighters withdrawing from the area of WTC 7: "It's blowin' boy." ... "Keep your eye on that building, it'll be coming down soon." ... "The building is about to blow up, move it back." ... "Here we are walking back. There's a building, about to blow up..." WMV video download (1 MB) The above indicates the message received by the firefighters was "We are going to demolish 7 World Trade. Clear the area." INDRA SINGH EMT: "...by noon or one o'clock they told us we need to move from that triage site up to Pace University a little further away because Building 7 was going to come down or be brought down." HOST: "Did they actually use the word "brought down" and who was it that was telling you this?" SINGH: "The fire department. And they did use the words 'we're gonna have to bring it down' and for us there observing the nature of the devastation it made total sense to us that this was indeed a possibility..." [Prison Planet] It has also been stated that a 20 second radio countdown preceded the collapse of WTC 7. The statement by Silverstein Properties and the US Department of State also contends there were no deaths in WTC 7 because "pull it" was an evacuation order. This is factually incorrect: Speakers for voice evacuation announcements were located throughout the building and were activated manually at the Fire Control Center (FCC) [WTC 7 Report] It would be impossible to miss an evacuation order. "...I'm on top of building 7 just pulling out rubbish. Pulled out a Port Authority cop at about 11 o'clock in the morning..." WMV video download (597kB) "When 7 World Trade Center came down on Sept. 11, an agent on loan from Washington, special officer Craig Miller, perished..." [PDF download (link expired)] "The Secret Service New York Field Office was located in 7 World Trade Center ... Master Special Officer Craig Miller, died during the rescue efforts." [PDF download] The death of Master Special Officer Craig Miller is another inconsistency in the official explanation of Silverstein's "pull it" comment. Why aren't the numerous inconsistencies questioned by the mainstream media? See also: Larry Silverstein, WTC 7, and the 9/11 Demolition The 9/11 WTC Collapses: An Audio-Video Analysis What Really Happened Email This Page To A Friend
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#1. To: Kamala, ALL (#0)
Here are the statements of firefighters who were there: http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/Banaciski_Richard.txt " "They told us to get out of there because they were worried about 7 World Trade Center, which is right behind it, coming down. We were up on the upper floors of the Verizon building looking at it. You could just see the whole bottom corner of the building was gone. We could look right out over to where the Trade Centers were because we were that high up. Looking over the smaller buildings. I just remember it was tremendous, tremendous fires going on. Finally they pulled us out. They said all right, get out of that building because that 7, they were really worried about. They pulled us out of there and then they regrouped everybody on Vesey Street, between the water and West Street. They put everybody back in there. Finally it did come down. From there - this is much later on in the day, because every day we were so worried about that building we didn't really want to get people close. They were trying to limit the amount of people that were in there. Finally it did come down." - Richard Banaciski" http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/Nigro_Daniel.txt "The most important operational decision to be made that afternoon was the collapse (Of the WTC towers) had damaged 7 World Trade Center, which is about a 50 story building, at Vesey between West Broadway and Washington Street. It had very heavy fire on many floors and I ordered the evacuation of an area sufficient around to protect our members, so we had to give up some rescue operations that were going on at the time and back the people away far enough so that if 7 World Trade did collapse, we [wouldn't] lose any more people. We continued to operate on what we could from that distance and approximately an hour and a half after that order was [given], at 5:30 in the afternoon, World Trade Center collapsed completely" - Daniel Nigro, Chief of Department" http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/Cruthers.txt "Early on, there was concern that 7 World Trade Center might have been both impacted by the collapsing tower and had several fires in it and there was a concern that it might collapse. So we instructed that a collapse area -- (Q. A collapse zone?) -- Yeah -- be set up and maintained so that when the expected collapse of 7 happened, we wouldn't have people working in it. There was considerable discussion with Con Ed regarding the substation in that building and the feeders and the oil coolants and so on. And their concern was of the type of fire we might have when it collapsed." - Chief Cruthers" http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/Ryan_William.txt "Then we found out, I guess around 3:00 [o'clock], that they thought 7 was going to collapse. So, of course, [we've] got guys all in this pile over here and the main concern was get everybody out, and I guess it took us over an hour and a half, two hours to get everybody out of there. (Q. Initially when you were there, you had said you heard a few Maydays?) Oh, yes. We had Maydays like crazy.... The heat must have been tremendous. There was so much [expletive] fire there. This whole pile was burning like crazy. Just the heat and the smoke from all the other buildings on fire, you [couldn't] see anything. So it took us a while and we ended up backing everybody out, and [that's] when 7 collapsed.... Basically, we fell back for 7 to collapse, and then we waited a while and it got a lot more organized, I would guess." - Lieutenant William Ryan" *********** http://www.firehouse.com/terrorist/911/magazine/gz/boyle.html "A little north of Vesey I said, we’ll go down, let’s see what’s going on. A couple of the other officers and I were going to see what was going on. We were told to go to Greenwich and Vesey and see what’s going on. So we go there and on the north and east side of 7 it didn’t look like there was any damage at all, but then you looked on the south side of 7 there had to be a hole 20 stories tall in the building, with fire on several floors. Debris was falling down on the building and it didn’t look good. But they had a hoseline operating. Like I said, it was hitting the sidewalk across the street, but eventually they pulled back too. Then we received an order from Fellini, we’re going to make a move on 7. That was the first time really my stomach tightened up because the building didn’t look good. I was figuring probably the standpipe systems were shot. There was no hydrant pressure. I wasn’t really keen on the idea. Then this other officer I’m standing next to said, that building doesn’t look straight. So I’m standing there. I’m looking at the building. It didn’t look right, but, well, we’ll go in, we’ll see. So we gathered up rollups and most of us had masks at that time. We headed toward 7. And just around we were about a hundred yards away and Butch Brandies came running up. He said forget it, nobody’s going into 7, there’s creaking, there are noises coming out of there, so we just stopped. And probably about 10 minutes after that, Visconti, he was on West Street, and I guess he had another report of further damage either in some basements and things like that, so Visconti said nobody goes into 7, so that was the final thing and that was abandoned." Firehouse: When you looked at the south side, how close were you to the base of that side? Boyle: I was standing right next to the building, probably right next to it. Firehouse: When you had fire on the 20 floors, was it in one window or many? Boyle: There was a huge gaping hole and it was scattered throughout there. It was a huge hole. I would say it was probably about a third of it, right in the middle of it. And so after Visconti came down and said nobody goes in 7, we said all right, we’ll head back to the command post. We lost touch with him. I never saw him again that day. ****************** http://www.firehouse.com/terrorist/911/magazine/gz/hayden.html Hayden: Yeah. There was enough there and we were marking off. There were a lot of damaged apparatus there that were covered. We tried to get searches in those areas. By now, this is going on into the afternoon, and we were concerned about additional collapse, not only of the Marriott, because there was a good portion of the Marriott still standing, but also we were pretty sure that 7 World Trade Center would collapse. Early on, we saw a bulge in the southwest corner between floors 10 and 13, and we had put a transit on that and we were pretty sure she was going to collapse. You actually could see there was a visible bulge, it ran up about three floors. It came down about 5 o’clock in the afternoon, but by about 2 o’clock in the afternoon we realized this thing was going to collapse. Firehouse: Was there heavy fire in there right away? Hayden: No, not right away, and that’s probably why it stood for so long because it took a while for that fire to develop. It was a heavy body of fire in there and then we didn’t make any attempt to fight it. That was just one of those wars we were just going to lose. We were concerned about the collapse of a 47-story building there. We were worried about additional collapse there of what was remaining standing of the towers and the Marriott, so we started pulling the people back after a couple of hours of surface removal and searches along the surface of the debris. We started to pull guys back because we were concerned for their safety. Firehouse: Chief Nigro said they made a collapse zone and wanted everybody away from number 7— did you have to get all of those people out? Hayden: Yeah, we had to pull everybody back. It was very difficult. We had to be very forceful in getting the guys out. They didn’t want to come out. There were guys going into areas that I wasn’t even really comfortable with, because of the possibility of secondary collapses. We didn’t know how stable any of this area was. We pulled everybody back probably by 3 or 3:30 in the afternoon. We said, this building is going to come down, get back. It came down about 5 o’clock or so, but we had everybody backed away by then. At that point in time, it seemed like a somewhat smaller event, but under any normal circumstances, that’s a major event, a 47-story building collapsing. It seemed like a firecracker after the other ones came down, but I mean that’s a big building, and when it came down, it was quite an event. But having gone through the other two, it didn’t seem so bad. But that’s what we were concerned about. We had said to the guys, we lost as many as 300 guys. We didn’t want to lose any more people that day. And when those numbers start to set in among everybody… My feeling early on was we weren’t going to find any survivors. You either made it out or you didn’t make it out. It was a cataclysmic event. The idea of somebody living in that thing to me would have been only short of a miracle. This thing became geographically sectored because of the collapse. I was at West and Liberty. I couldn’t go further north on West Street. And I couldn’t go further east on Liberty because of the collapse of the south tower, so physically we were boxed in. ************ http://www.firehouse.com/911/magazine/towers.html "WTC Building 7 appears to have suffered significant damage at some point after the WTC Towers had collapsed, according to firefighters at the scene. Firefighter Butch Brandies tells other firefighters that nobody is to go into Building 7 because of creaking and noises coming out of there. [Firehouse Magazine, 8/02] Battalion Chief John Norman later recalls, "At the edge of the south face you could see that it is very heavily damaged." [Firehouse Magazine, 5/02] Heavy, thick smoke rises near 7 World Trade Center. Smoke is visible from the upper floors of the 47-story building. Firefighters using transits to determine whether there was any movement in the structure were surprised to discover that is was moving. The area was evacuated and the building collapsed later in the afternoon of Sept. 11." ************ Furthermore, according to http://www.debunking911.com/pull.htm "Daniel Nigro said there were RESCUE OPERATIONS that were ongoing. He also says it was HE and not Silverstein who ordered the firemen out. "I ordered the evacuation of an area sufficient around to protect our members, so we had to give up some rescue operations that were going on at the time and back the people away far enough so that if 7 World Trade did collapse, we [wouldn't] lose any more people. - Chief Nigro" *********** So the claim that firefighters weren't in danger if WTC7 collapsed or that they weren't "pulled" out is simply false. Either that or all the above firemen are liars.
This is from ImplosionWorld, experts in building demolition: http://www.implosionworld.com/Article-WTC%20STUDY%208-06%20w%20clarif%20as%20of%209-8-06%20.pdf "We have never, ever heard the term "pull it" being used to refer to the explosive demolition of a building, and neither has any blast team we've spoken with. The term is used in conventional demolition circles, to describe the specific activity of attaching long cables to a pre-weakened building and maneuvering heavy equipment (excavators, bulldozers, etc.) to "pull" the frame of the structure over onto its side for further dismantlement. This author and our research team were on site when workers pulled over the six-story remains of WTC-6 in late fall 2001, however we can say with certainty that a similar operation would have been logistically impossible at Ground Zero on 9/11, physically impossible for a building the size of WTC 7, and the structure did not collapse in that manner anyway." ************* http://www.implosionworld.com/wtc.htm Implosionworld.com has received numerous inquiries from around the world requesting information and commentary relating to the terrorist attacks of September 11th, 2001, and specifically the felling of the World Trade Center towers. We have been contacted by media outlets, structural engineers, schoolteachers, conspiracy theorists and many others who are searching for answers and some “perspective” regarding these significant events that have evoked deep emotions and undoubtedly changed our world forever. The editors of implosionworld.com have created this page to answer a few of the most frequently asked questions that fall within our area of knowledge and expertise. But first we’d like to be clear in stating that any conversation relating to “implosions” and what causes structures to fail is undertaken with reverence and respect to those who perished as a result of this event. As many of our frequent web visitors are aware, Implosionworld.com’s offices are located close to New York City, and several of our employees were personally touched by this tragedy. Our thoughts and prayers remain with the families of those lost and injured, and our intent here is to help foster a constructive base of knowledge and understanding through education, while dispelling false rumors related to the attack. DID THE WORLD TRADE CENTER TOWERS ACTUALLY “IMPLODE”? No. They collapsed in an uncontrolled fashion, causing extensive damage to surrounding structures, roadways and utilities. Although when viewed from a distance the towers appeared to have telescoped almost straight down, a closer look at video replays reveal sizeable portions of each building breaking free during the collapse, with the largest sections--some as tall as 30 or 40 stories--actually “laying out” in several directions. The outward failure of these sections is believed to have caused much of the significant damage to adjacent structures, and smaller debris caused structural and cosmetic damage to hundreds of additional buildings around the perimeter of the site. WHY DID THEY COLLAPSE? Each 110-story tower contained a central steel core surrounded by open office space, with 18-inch steel tubes running vertically along the outside of the building. These structural elements provided the support for the building, and most experts agree that the planes impacting the buildings alone would not have caused them to collapse. The intense heat from the burning jet fuel, however, gradually softened the steel core and redistributed the weight to the outer tubes, which were slowly deformed by the added weight and the heat of the fire. Eventually, the integrity of these tubes was compromised to the point where they buckled under the weight of the higher floors, causing a gravitational chain reaction that continued until all of the floors were at ground level. DID THE TERRORISTS PLANT ANY BOMBS IN THE BUILDINGS IN ADVANCE TO GUARANTEE THEIR DEMISE? To our knowledge there is no evidence whatsoever to support this assertion. Analysis of video and photographs of both towers clearly shows that the initial structural failure occurred at or near the points where the planes impacted the buildings. Furthermore, there is no visible or audible indication that explosives or any other supplemental catalyst was used in the attack. HOW DOES THIS EVENT COMPARE WITH A NORMAL BUILDING IMPLOSION? The only correlation is that in a very broad sense, explosive devices (airplanes loaded with fuel) were used to intentionally bring down buildings. However it can be argued that even this vague similarity relates more to military explosive demolition than to building implosions, which specifically involve the placement of charges at key points within a structure to precipitate the failure of steel or concrete supports within their own footprint. The other primary difference between these two types of operations is that implosions are universally conducted with the utmost concern for adjacent properties and human safety---elements that were horrifically absent from this event. Therefore we can conclude that what happened in New York was not a “building implosion.” ***********
Photos of FDNY in Action Before & After WTC Buildings Collapsed
WTC Fire Covering Several Floors, Heating Metal Red-Hot
There is no shortage of audio, video or qualified observers to attest to the controlled demolition of the buildings. Can you even spell "integrity?" You continue as a deceiving piece of shit, BAC.
Ha, ha. That is an image of the south tower right after impact. That isn't the perimeter girders "red hot" its the jet fuel burning. According to NIST/FEMA around 4500 gals were avalable, and in less than 10 minutes all the jet fuel was gone, and also according to NIST, the towers were an oxygen and fuel poor environment. Oh, yeah, by the way, according to your Einstein train of logic from another thread, why are you quesioning or commenting on fire or structual issues? Are you fire or structual engineer or scientist? I won't waste my time with you long. You'll get your so richly deserved beating and I'll move on. Your LIHOP, bungling government theory won't hold up here.
Mark "I was real close to Building 7 when it fell down... That didn't sound like just a building falling down to me while I was running away from it. There's a lot of eyewitness testimony down there of hearing explosions. [..] and the whole time you're hearing "boom, boom, boom, boom, boom." I think I know an explosion when I hear it... — Former NYC Police Officer and 9/11 Rescue Worker Craig Bartmer
So wrong. I am not going to chase the rabbits for you. I don't know why you would post such obvious nonsense. It hurts your creadibility, IMO.
Uh huh. So because the "terrorists" didn't evacuate the WTC before hitting them, we can conclude that the WTC was not hit. What bizarro logic you weave BAC...
Instead of relying on mainstream media and the doubtful testimony of the men who covered up the crime of the century by pulling the building you can go to http://www.WTC7.net and see Tower 7 collapse from 3 different angles. All 3 videos show Tower 7 collapsing in 6.5 seconds. None of the three videos show damage sufficient for a collapse of the steel girders. Soon after 911 a 24 story steel girdered skyscraper in Madrd burned for 36 hours without collapsing.
The Truth of 911 Shall Set You Free From The Lie
Flames are now red instead of orange? On the highest level of the fire, the picture is clearly showing a dull red glow, which is not of any jet fuel, which would be orange flames. Something in the interior is being heated red-hot from the flames. Posting a photo is "commenting on fire or structural issues?" It would have to come from somebody with enough brains to know what color flames are, and the difference between posting a photo and a comment. That rules you out.
Sorry, there are no photos of "glowing red" structural steel. There may be "something" burning, but it isn't steel. Again, the "something" whatever that is burning, is burning around 1100-1200 degrees gas temps. This would line up perfectly with the steel temps of 480-600. According to NIST, the jet fuel was burned off in minutes and the WTC office floors were fuel poor and the fuel in a given area would burn up in around 20 minutes. The west side of WTC 2 never even had any fire or heat at all. The south tower fires were basically out in around 40 minutes. Much too short to heat any steel to any degree. NIST/FEMA engineers looked at and tested the steel from the impact/fire zones and it survived the impacts and preformed great, just as the main designers and architects said it would. The towers not only were designed for an airliner impact, but multiple impacts, at any speed and the fuel dumped involved. NIST did fire temp tests on the steel from the impact area and found physical temps of 480- 600. For structural steel to "glow red", you are talking temps of physical steel reaching 1700 and higher and then staying at those temps. Like at the Madrid fire. NIST again states that fuel was gone in minutes and it was a office fuel poor fire. The photo is taken right after impact and the fuel dump involved. There is no way steel reached that temp that fast. It takes time. Its impossible, plus there is no scientific evidence of this. NIST doesn't claim this. If you have some inside knowledge of the temps, that NIST doesn't, I think you should notify them with this breaking news!! Your photo is your comment. Its misleading and deceptive. I would like to see another photo of the same shot taken 25 minutes later. You know why that photo isn't shown? Because it would show that the fire and flames were out and gone. Like I said, deceptive and misleading. Boy, when things don't go your way, the accusations, name calling and such comes out right away. I won't waste much time on you, so don't get your panties in a bunch.
Mark "I was real close to Building 7 when it fell down... That didn't sound like just a building falling down to me while I was running away from it. There's a lot of eyewitness testimony down there of hearing explosions. [..] and the whole time you're hearing "boom, boom, boom, boom, boom." I think I know an explosion when I hear it... — Former NYC Police Officer and 9/11 Rescue Worker Craig Bartmer
It must be appreciated that the siding on the building was an aluminum alloy. If that remained intact at the heat exit point; how hot could it have been?
I never said anything about gas temps, structural steel, non-structural steel, or building construction. I posted a photo and said that metal was red-hot. Now you're quoting the government agencies you say are lying. Interesting. I'd like to see photo of the **thermite,** which burns white-hot and gives off a flame brighter than a welder's torch. Right, Toots. That explains your "panties in a bunch" remark below. That's why you've addressed 5 posts to me in the last 2 days. Best to look after your own panties, Toots. You're Bozo #2.
I'll admit, all the nonsense about the thermite only shows the people who believe in it know nothing about it. I made thermite as a kid. All it is a combination of aluminum dust and iron oxide - - which is rust. I set it off with a sparkler. It doesn't "pour" out of buildings. It goes whoosh, burns white-hot, burns holes through metal, and leaves no residue. I won't even address the rest of the nonsense about remote-controlled airplames and explosives at the base of the buildings.
"We become what we behold. We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." -- Marshall McLuhan, after Alexander Pope and William Blake.
I warned/told you so, AGAviator. This is a webite populated by Art Bell types.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Amen.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
And it's an incendiary, not an *explosive* either. If you mix it with real explosives like RDX, 1 of 2 things will happen (2) The explosive (RDX) will detonate and splatter the incendiary (thermite) all over the place before it has a chance to do any cutting. Bozo List: (1) Angle, (2) Kamala
So nice of you to 'warn' posters about this forum.. this is a free speech forum .. your opinion is as valid as others.. believe as you will.. but I will say I certainly do not appreciate the implication here.. If you think that others are incorrect in their opinions... prove them wrong just as they're trying to do.. to dismiss people as "Art Bell types" seems to reveal that you are the one in fact that wants to control opinions by labelling .. is it that you want everyone to believe in one way or is it that you want discussion?? You cant have it both ways Destro.
You are probably right in critiquing my statement but be honest anyone who takes a contrary position on 9/11 against the 9/11 truth conspiracy is not welcome here - which is fine.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Who said youre not welcome here for disagreeing? Not Chris nor I..
I was called a disinfo agent and there was a campaign to have be shut off. Fine by me - their right.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
A campaign? A bit of an overstatement IMO..
(2) The explosive (RDX) will detonate and splatter the incendiary (thermite) all over the place before it has a chance to do any cutting. As I said, people who talk about thermite in buildings know nothing about thermite. I made it once, and never again. The stuff is extraordinarily dangerous. And you're right: it didn't explode, it just burned like crazy.
"We become what we behold. We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." -- Marshall McLuhan, after Alexander Pope and William Blake.
I was mistaken.. it was of thermite but on a block of ice which exploded..here is what I saw.. Now a question.. some say the explosions were caused by thermite which I dont believe .. if in fact it was conspiracy of some type ...other than the conspiracy the gov says it is. is it possible that thermite was used to weaken the structure plus other explosives.. here is the video of the explosions
Here's a passage from the Wiki article on "Thermite reaction": Thermite reactions have many uses. Thermite was originally used for repair welding in-place thick steel sections such as locomotive axle-frames where the repair can take place without removing the part from its installed location. It can also be used for quickly cutting or welding steel such as rail tracks, without requiring complex or heavy equipment. Like you, I'll let people judge for themselves whether a thermite reaction (and there are different types) could have been used to quickly cut the steel in the WTC buildings. ;)
guess what i think. :P
Where have you been? You have been missing some good beatdowns!!
Mark "I was real close to Building 7 when it fell down... That didn't sound like just a building falling down to me while I was running away from it. There's a lot of eyewitness testimony down there of hearing explosions. [..] and the whole time you're hearing "boom, boom, boom, boom, boom." I think I know an explosion when I hear it... — Former NYC Police Officer and 9/11 Rescue Worker Craig Bartmer
Got a "cutting" remark? :P
I normally don't bother dealing with the pig-headed arrogance of the 9/11 Truth opponents. Aided by capable proponents such as you, most people are capable of seeing through the badgering and haranguing and phoney expertise touted by them. When they start getting shitty with a couple of fine ladies...that's where I draw the line.
This has been my thought on this topic.. btw thank you *
If you were not welcome, you'd be on Bozo or be banned. However, banning only occurs on LP and FRaud. But don't call me Art Bell. I may believe TheStateInc lied about 9-11, but I don't believe the aliens did it! They live under the sea and can't come up in daylight. ;) [sensitive eyes]
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act - - George Orwell Yeah I know it becomes a giant waste of time and energy, but I've wanted to get a piece of a couple of these morons, but I wasn't going to register at some other forum. Its always good to get out some new info that just destroys the 911 fairytale. The bootlickers just stick to their tired old shtick.
Mark "I was real close to Building 7 when it fell down... That didn't sound like just a building falling down to me while I was running away from it. There's a lot of eyewitness testimony down there of hearing explosions. [..] and the whole time you're hearing "boom, boom, boom, boom, boom." I think I know an explosion when I hear it... — Former NYC Police Officer and 9/11 Rescue Worker Craig Bartmer
:P
Is that the expertise you consider necessary to make a judgement about the WTC tower collapse? Then why do you ignore the fact that except for one or two examples (and I'd be happy to chat about those), NO structural engineers, demolition experts, experts in steel or fire, or macro-world physicist have signed on to your demolition theory. Why do you think that is, Mark?
But not from the South Side where a huge hole in the structure was located. It was obscured by smoke from big fires. The Windsor Tower in Madrid was NOT a 24 story steel skyscraper. The core was reinforced concrete and from the 17th floor on down the frame supporting the floors was primarily reinforced concrete. And all the portions of the tower that did depend solely on a steel frame did in fact collapse. But you will not find the truth if you start your investigation with a foundation of "facts" that aren't facts.
6.5 seconds, with the elevator motor cab starting the collapse. How utterly convenient. BAC, you're returned to your usual slimy bullshit - as though you know anything else. "Get back BeOcho!"
If you want me to look at something, you will have to link me to it. I'm not interested in wading through someone's myspace account looking for whatever this is. And if it's a video that starts out by claiming the WTC towers collapsed in 10 seconds, I have to tell you that it starts out with a demonstrable falsehood. Enjoy!!! www.911myths.com/WTC7_Lies.pdf
As far as I'm concerned, 911 whodunits are quite a waste of time. The events happened nearly 5 1/2 years ago, you can make a case there are certain elements who welcomed them, and instead of stopping the insanity that has resulted from it, there is this endless speculation bordering on obsession...
Bozo List: (1) Angle, (2) Kamala AGAviator posted on 2007-02-11 18:29:20 ET Physics, engineering and aviation [our specialty] aside, I wonder how TheStateInc 9-11 believers account for the mathematical statistical improbability..no, impossibility.. of 3 buildings, on fire, all with different damage profiles, all collapsing STRAIGHT DOWN, when they were designed to withstand such damage, and when none ever have before in history. Talk about winning the Progressive Jackpot. We need to take these believers to Vegas and see if some of that good Mojo rubs off on us! AGAviator: Me too, me too!!! Bozo me!! While you're at it, since these events happened so long ago, let's stop discussing history altogether. It's all irrelevant according to you. You've demonstrated your lack of intellect. And that is as politely as I can state it. In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act - - George Orwell
Comments (41 - 467) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest There is a problem with the above statement, namely there were no firefighters in WTC 7:
#2. To: Kamala, ALL (#0)
"Pull" is a term used in building demolition...
#3. To: BeAChooser, All (#2)
#4. To: All (#3)
#5. To: BeAChooser, Christine, Brian S, Honway, Robin, Aristeides, Red Jones, Diana, Kamala, All (#2)
Furthermore, there is no visible or audible indication that explosives or any other supplemental catalyst was used in the attack.
#6. To: AGAviator, *9-11* (#4)
#7. To: BeAChooser (#2)
Furthermore, there is no visible or audible indication that explosives or any other supplemental catalyst was used in the attack.
#8. To: BeAChooser (#2)
The other primary difference between these two types of operations is that implosions are universally conducted with the utmost concern for adjacent properties and human safety---elements that were horrifically absent from this event. Therefore we can conclude that what happened in New York was not a “building implosion.”
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#9. To: BeAChooser (#1)
#10. To: Kamala (#6)
(Edited)
Ha, ha. That is an image of the south tower right after impact. That isn't the perimeter girders "red hot" its the jet fuel burning.
Oh, yeah, by the way, according to your Einstein train of logic from another thread, why are you quesioning or commenting on fire or structual issues? Are you fire or structual engineer or scientist?
I won't waste my time with you long. You'll get your so richly deserved beating and I'll move on.
#11. To: BeAChooser (#5)
Enjoy!
#12. To: AGAviator, *9-11* (#10)
#13. To: Kamala, Brian S, Christine, Honway, Robin, Aristeides, Diana, All (#12)
#14. To: Kamala (#12)
Sorry, there are no photos of "glowing red" structural steel. There may be "something" burning, but it isn't steel. Again, the "something" whatever that is burning, is burning around 1100-1200 degrees gas temps.
According to NIST...NIST/FEMA engineers looked at and tested the steel
Your photo is your comment. Its misleading and deceptive. I would like to see another photo of the same shot taken 25 minutes later.
Boy, when things don't go your way, the accusations, name calling and such comes out right away.
I won't waste much time on you
So don't get your panties in a bunch
Bozo List: (1) Angle, (2) Kamala
#15. To: AGAviator (#14)
I'd like to see photo of the **thermite,** which burns white-hot and gives off a flame brighter than a welder's torch.
#16. To: AGAviator, Kamala (#10)
(Edited)
It would have to come from somebody with enough brains to know what color flames are, and the difference between posting a photo and a comment. That rules you out.
#17. To: YertleTurtle (#15)
I'll admit, all the nonsense about the thermite only shows the people who believe in it know nothing about it.
#18. To: YertleTurtle, Destro (#15)
I made thermite as a kid...It doesn't "pour" out of buildings. It goes whoosh, burns white-hot, burns holes through metal, and leaves no residue.
(1) The incendiary (thermite) will burn up the explosive (RDX) before the explosive detonates, or
#19. To: Destro (#16)
I warned/told you so, AGAviator. This is a webite populated by Art Bell types.
#20. To: Zipporah (#19)
to dismiss people as "Art Bell types" seems to reveal that you are the one in fact that wants to control opinions by labelling .. is it that you want everyone to believe in one way or is it that you want discussion?? You cant have it both ways Destro.
#21. To: Destro (#20)
#22. To: Zipporah (#21)
Who said youre not welcome here for disagreeing? Not Chris nor I..
#23. To: Destro (#22)
#24. To: AGAviator (#18)
(1) The incendiary (thermite) will burn up the explosive (RDX) before the explosive detonates, or
#25. To: YertleTurtle (#24)
(Edited)
And you're right: it didn't explode, it just burned like crazy.
#26. To: Zipporah (#25)
#27. To: Peetie Wheatstraw (#26)
Like you, I'll let people judge for themselves whether a thermite reaction (and there are different types) could have been used to quickly cut the steel in the WTC buildings.
#28. To: Peetie Wheatstraw (#26)
#29. To: christine (#27)
guess what i think. :P
#30. To: Kamala, Zipporah (#28)
Where have you been? You have been missing some good beatdowns!!
#31. To: Peetie Wheatstraw (#26)
It can also be used for quickly cutting or welding steel such as rail tracks, without requiring complex or heavy equipment.
#32. To: Destro (#20)
(Edited)
anyone who takes a contrary position on 9/11 against the 9/11 truth conspiracy is not welcome here - which is fine.
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition
In a CorporoFascist capitalist society, there is no money in peace, freedom, or a healthy population, and therefore, no incentive to achieve these - - IndieTX
#33. To: Peetie Wheatstraw (#30)
#34. To: IndieTX (#32)
#35. To: Kamala, Agaviator, ALL (#6)
To Agaviator - Oh, yeah, by the way, according to your Einstein train of logic from another thread, why are you quesioning or commenting on fire or structual issues? Are you fire or structual engineer or scientist?
#36. To: Horse, ALL (#9)
Instead of relying on mainstream media and the doubtful testimony of the men who covered up the crime of the century by pulling the building you can go to http://www.WTC7.net and see Tower 7 collapse from 3 different angles.
Soon after 911 a 24 story steel girdered skyscraper in Madrd burned for 36 hours without collapsing.
The Truth of 911 Shall Set You Free From The Lie
#37. To: BeAChooser, Christine, Brian S, Honway, Robin, Aristeides, Red Jones, Diana, Kamala, All (#36)
#38. To: WTC7 911Smoking Cannon, ALL (#11)
Ten Second Freefall
WTC 7 Building Pulled
#39. To: YertleTurtle (#24)
(Edited)
As I said, people who talk about thermite in buildings know nothing about thermite.
Bozo List: (1) Angle, (2) Kamala
#40. To: SKYDRIFTER, agaviator, beachooser, christine, all, zipporah, kamala, angle, burkeman1, ferret mike, jethro tull, skydrifter (#37)
(Edited)
Let's stop discussing things that happened over 5 years ago..blah blah
As far as I'm concerned, 911 whodunits are quite a waste of time. The events happened nearly 5 1/2 years ago, you can make a case there are certain elements who welcomed them, and instead of stopping the insanity that has resulted from it, there is this endless speculation bordering on obsession...
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition
In a CorporoFascist capitalist society, there is no money in peace, freedom, or a healthy population, and therefore, no incentive to achieve these - - IndieTX
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