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War, War, War
See other War, War, War Articles

Title: Iraq's death toll is far worse than our leaders admit
Source: The Independent
URL Source: http://iraqwar.mirror-world.ru/article/118356
Published: Feb 14, 2007
Author: Les Roberts
Post Date: 2007-02-14 09:58:38 by leveller
Keywords: None
Views: 31908
Comments: 457

The US and Britain have triggered an episode more deadly than the Rwandan genocide

14 February 2007

On both sides of the Atlantic, a process of spinning science is preventing a serious discussion about the state of affairs in Iraq.

The government in Iraq claimed last month that since the 2003 invasion between 40,000 and 50,000 violent deaths have occurred. Few have pointed out the absurdity of this statement.

There are three ways we know it is a gross underestimate. First, if it were true, including suicides, South Africa, Colombia, Estonia, Kazakhstan, Latvia, Lithuania and Russia have experienced higher violent death rates than Iraq over the past four years. If true, many North and South American cities and Sub-Saharan Africa have had a similar murder rate to that claimed in Iraq. For those of us who have been in Iraq, the suggestion that New Orleans is more violent seems simply ridiculous.

Secondly, there have to be at least 120,000 and probably 140,000 deaths per year from natural causes in a country with the population of Iraq. The numerous stories we hear about overflowing morgues, the need for new cemeteries and new body collection brigades are not consistent with a 10 per cent rise in death rate above the baseline.

And finally, there was a study, peer-reviewed and published in The Lancet, Europe's most prestigious medical journal, which put the death toll at 650,000 as of last July. The study, which I co-authored, was done by the standard cluster approach used by the UN to estimate mortality in dozens of countries each year. While the findings are imprecise, the lower range of possibilities suggested that the Iraq government was at least downplaying the number of dead by a factor of 10.

There are several reasons why the governments involved in this conflict have been able to confuse the issue of Iraqi deaths. Our Lancet report involved sampling and statistical analysis, which is rather dry reading. Media reports always miss most deaths in times of war, so the estimate by the media-based monitoring system, http://Iraqbodycount.org (IBC) roughly corresponds with the Iraq government's figures. Repeated evaluations of deaths identified from sources independent of the press and the Ministry of Health show the IBC listing to be less than 10 per cent complete, but because it matches the reports of the governments involved, it is easily referenced.

Several other estimates have placed the death toll far higher than the Iraqi government estimates, but those have received less press attention. When in 2005, a UN survey reported that 90 per cent of violent attacks in Scotland were not recorded by the police, no one, not even the police, disputed this finding. Representative surveys are the next best thing to a census for counting deaths, and nowhere but Iraq have partial tallies from morgues and hospitals been given such credence when representative survey results are available.

The Pentagon will not release information about deaths induced or amounts of weaponry used in Iraq. On 9 January of this year, the embedded Fox News reporter Brit Hume went along for an air attack, and we learned that at least 25 targets were bombed that day with almost no reports of the damage appearing in the press.

Saddam Hussein's surveillance network, which only captured one third of all deaths before the invasion, has certainly deteriorated even further. During last July, there were numerous televised clashes in Anbar, yet the system recorded exactly zero violent deaths from the province. The last Minister of Health to honestly assess the surveillance network, Dr Ala'din Alwan, admitted that it was not reporting from most of the country by August 2004. He was sacked months later after, among other things, reports appeared based on the limited government data suggesting that most violent deaths were associated with coalition forces.

The consequences of downplaying the number of deaths in Iraq are profound for both the UK and the US. How can the Americans have a surge of troops to secure the population and promise success when the coalition cannot measure the level of security to within a factor of 10? How can the US and Britain pretend they understand the level of resentment in Iraq if they are not sure if, on average, one in 80 families have lost a household member, or one in seven, as our study suggests?

If these two countries have triggered an episode more deadly than the Rwandan genocide, and have actively worked to mask this fact, how will they credibly be able to criticise Sudan or Zimbabwe or the next government that kills thousands of its own people?

For longer than the US has been a nation, Britain has pushed us at our worst of moments to do the right thing. That time has come again with regard to Iraq. It is wrong to be the junior partner in an endeavour rigged to deny the next death induced, and to have spokespeople effectively respond to that death with disinterest and denial.

Our nations' leaders are collectively expressing belligerence at a time when the populace knows they should be expressing contrition. If that cannot be corrected, Britain should end its role in this deteriorating misadventure. It is unlikely that any historians will record the occupation of Iraq in a favourable light. Britain followed the Americans into this débâcle. Wouldn't it be better to let history record that Britain led them out?

The writer is an Associate Professor at Columbia University's Mailman School of Public Health

http://comment.independent.co.uk/commentators/article2268067.ece

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#3. To: leveller, ALL (#0)

Let's bring a little rationality to a new topic here at FD4UM.

And finally, there was a study, peer-reviewed and published in The Lancet, Europe's most prestigious medical journal, which put the death toll at 650,000 as of last July. The study, which I co-authored, was done by the standard cluster approach used by the UN to estimate mortality in dozens of countries each year. While the findings are imprecise, the lower range of possibilities suggested that the Iraq government was at least downplaying the number of dead by a factor of 10.

This isn't the first report on Iraqi deaths by Les Roberts of John Hopkins to be published by the Lancet. The first one (in which Les was the lead author) claimed 100,000 excess deaths occurred in the first 18 months after the invasion began. This study was *peer reviewed* by the Lancet ... who editors apparently didn't read the report since they proceeded to advertise the first study as saying 100,000 CIVILIANS died during that time, when the study didn't say that at all. But their saying this led thousands of conspiracists and numerous leftist media reporters to claim 100,000 civilians had been murdered by Bush and the evil United States.

In interviews that Les Roberts gave on that first report, he allowed the 100,000 civilian deaths perception to stand uncontested. For example,here (http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/12/14/154251#transcript) is an interview he did with DemocracyNow, a far left media outlet (curious how he could never find time for an interview on a conservative outlet). In it, the interviewer (Gonzalez) says to Roberts "Last year, the prominent British medical journal, Lancet, published a study estimating that over 100,000 Iraqi civilians had died because of the war. The study determined that the risk of death by violence for civilians in Iraq is now 58 times higher than before the U.S. invasion. We are joined in Washington by the lead researcher of that report, Dr. Les Roberts, who is an epidemiologist at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health.". Les Roberts response didn't correct the misinformation about the study in Gonzalez's statement. He let the assertion that the study concluded a 100,000 civilians died stand. I think he did that because Les Roberts is DISHONEST and has an anti-Bush/anti-war agenda. He has from day one, as you will see.

His dishonesty in the above interview continued when discussing the methodology he used. For example, he said, regarding the interviews with Iraqis on which the study was based, "And at the end of the interview, if they had reported someone dead, on a sub-sample, we asked, can you show us the death certificate? And about 82% of the time, they could do that. And we found that the death rate after the invasion was far, far higher than before." He doesn't mention that only in 2 out of 30 homes claiming deaths did they even ask for a death certificate. Nor does he tell his listeners the reason stated in the report why they didn't ask (fear that they would be hurt by those they asked).

And reading that transcript, you will notice that he doesn' t mention the fact that such organizations as WHO and the UN (hardly Bush advocate's) published pre-war mortality rates (a VERY important number in arriving at the estimated number of excess deaths) that were significantly different from what his study found. In fact, his report neither noted or attempted to explain why it's pre-war mortality estimate was so markedly different. The John Hopkin's researchers in the first report said 5 per 1000 per year. Well it turns out that the UN and WHO, in very large studies conducted before the invasion, said 7-8 per 1000 per year. By the way, the Lancet had previously blessed those WHO and UN estimates as correct ... perhaps because at the time doing THAT was hurt the US governments image.

Now there are many more criticisms one can make about that first report. But let's move on to the second report ... the one claiming 655,000 excess deaths. That one has all the defects mentions above plus others.

For example, the second report claims that 92% of those interviewed in their study who claimed deaths in their families (of any kind) since the beginning of the war were able to provide death certificates to prove it when asked. So if the John Hopkin's study methodology is statistically valid, one would expect death certificates from about 92% of 655,000 deaths should be available if someone goes looking for them. That is over 600,000 death certificates. Of the total number of deaths claimed, the John Hopkins report said "601,027 were due to violent causes. Non-violent deaths rose above the pre-invasion level only in 2006." So according to John Hopkin's, most of the death certificates should relate to violent causes.

Now as far as I know, death certificates in Iraq are only issued by the hospitals and morgues. This is what the LATimes (not a friend of Bush or the war) seemed to indicate in June of 2006 when they reported (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-deathtoll25jun25,0,4970736.story?coll=la-home-headlines) that they made a comprehensive search for death certificates throughout Iraq. And you know what they found? Less than 50,000.

Here's what they reported. "The Times attempted to reach a comprehensive figure by obtaining statistics from the Baghdad morgue and the Health Ministry and checking those numbers against a sampling of local health departments for possible undercounts." The article went on to say "the Health Ministry gathers numbers from hospitals in the capital and the outlying provinces. If a victim of violence dies at a hospital or arrives dead, medical officials issue a death certificate. Relatives claim the body directly from the hospital and arrange for a speedy burial in keeping with Muslim beliefs. If the morgue receives a body — usually those deemed suspicious deaths — officials there issue the death certificate. Health Ministry officials said that because death certificates are issued and counted separately, the two data sets are not overlapping. The Baghdad morgue received 30,204 bodies from 2003 through mid-2006, while the Health Ministry said it had documented 18,933 deaths from "military clashes" and "terrorist attacks" from April 5, 2004, to June 1, 2006. Together, the toll reaches 49,137."

So here's the question. Where are the missing death certificates? About 500,000, if one subtracts out the non-violent deaths. For that matter, where are the missing bodies? Where is ANY hard proof (photographic, video, eyewitness reports by journalists, ANYTHING) to prove over 600,000 people have died from violent causes as claimed?

I'll tell you. Such proof doesn't exist because the John Hopkin's studies are BOGUS. It's the result of a group of researchers (some of whom have admitted they disliked Bush and the War) who hired people in Iraq (who they described as HATING Americans) to gather the data.

I think this reviewer of Robert's study (From http://www.windsofchange.net/archives/006694.php) summed it up best: "In contrast to the amiable persona Roberts projected to his sympathetic Chronicle interviewer, Roberts comes across here as committed to exposing the American government's moral culpability in invading Iraq. More than that, Roberts' contention that Americans are passionately hated by the Iraqis he met and worked with ought to raise a red flag. It was those same Iraqis, acting as interviewers and team managers, who recorded and conveyed the surveyed families' impressions of the identities of those who killed their close relatives."

The results are tainted because they were reviewed and published in a journal that not only lied about the first study (claiming it showed 100,000 CIVILIANS died in the first 18 months of the war) but whose editors admit they fast tracked the peer review process so that it could be published before an election and negatively affect the outcome against Bush and the GOP. The methodology was tainted by expecting the sunnis who bore the brunt of the invasion and who hate Americans (because we freed the rest of Iraq from their tyranny) to tell the truth about casualties. And the study is still being tainted by proponents who willfully hide all these facts every time they cite the numbers in order to promote their agenda.

In summary, I'd be very cautious about citing Les Roberts or the Lancet results to prove anything. You might end up only embarrassing yourself.

How the Lancet Cooked the Numbers

Exaggeration won't save Iraqis: The new claims about the civilian death toll in Iraq are vastly overstated"

Another bogus body count from those who brought us the last bogus body count!

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-02-14   21:06:35 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: BeAChooser, ALL (#3)

Where are the missing death certificates? About 500,000, if one subtracts out the non-violent deaths. For that matter, where are the missing bodies? Where is ANY hard proof (photographic, video, eyewitness reports by journalists, ANYTHING) to prove over 600,000 people have died from violent causes as claimed?

You have made me feel so much better. You have performed a public service, for which every American should feel grateful. The burden of 650G innocent Iraqi deaths has been lifted from our shoulders, to be replaced with the burden of only 50G or 60G innocent civilian deaths. It no longer matters that Bush launched an elective war of aggression, in the absence of any imminent critical threat to our national security. It no longer matters that Iraq had never attacked us and was not about to do so. It no longer matters that W's henchmen cooked the NIE to justify an illegal war. None of that metters, because 50G deaths don't count.

leveller  posted on  2007-02-15   12:00:57 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: leveller, robin, Burkeman1, Brian S, bluedogtxn (#4)

You have made me feel so much better. You have performed a public service, for which every American should feel grateful. The burden of 650G innocent Iraqi deaths has been lifted from our shoulders, to be replaced with the burden of only 50G or 60G innocent civilian deaths. It no longer matters that Bush launched an elective war of aggression, in the absence of any imminent critical threat to our national security. It no longer matters that Iraq had never attacked us and was not about to do so. It no longer matters that W's henchmen cooked the NIE to justify an illegal war. None of that metters, because 50G deaths don't count.

Excellent response. I've always been troubled by similar number crunching bean counters who miss the forest for the trees in their attempt tp rationalize our attack on a defenseless nation.

Thank you leveller for giving me the short and sweet message I can use in the future. In the past I have been sucked into the actuarial game of trying to defend the 650,000 figure - you are so right - it matters not whether the figure is 650,000 or 1 - our gov't started a war of aggression and invaded another sovereign nation and killed and wounded and displaced that country's nationals. Our gov't leaders are war criminals and should be charged as such.

scrapper2  posted on  2007-02-15   13:37:28 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: scrapper2, ALL (#5)

Excellent response. I've always been troubled by similar number crunching bean counters who miss the forest for the trees in their attempt tp rationalize our attack on a defenseless nation.

I would pose the same question to you.

Would you be as upset if only 10 "innocent" deaths had resulted from toppling Saddam and making sure Iraq couldn't be used with as a terrorists safe haven? At what number would you draw the line between doing that being a good thing versus a bad thing?

it matters not whether the figure is 650,000 or 1

Or perhaps this is your answer.

You would have left Saddam in place to murder tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis every single year, rather than toppling him at the cost of even 1.

You would have left Iraq a safe haven for terrorists so they could plan and launch attacks like the one in Jordan where tens of thousands of dead were the goal, rather than invade even if the cost were only 1.

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-02-15   14:06:11 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#78. To: BeAChooser, robin, leveller, Burkeman1, bluedogtxn, Brian S (#9)

You would have left Saddam in place to murder tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis every single year, rather than toppling him at the cost of even 1.

You would have left Iraq a safe haven for terrorists so they could plan and launch attacks like the one in Jordan where tens of thousands of dead were the goal, rather than invade even if the cost were only 1.

Iraq was not a haven for terrorists.

Even the 9-11 Commission, try as they may to whitewash the ill-considered decisions of GWB and Congress, admitted that Saddam was not dealing with AQ or any other terrorists.

Also Iraq was so weakened by sanctions since the first Gulf War it was no threat to the US or its neighbors.

As for the Iraqis brutalized by Saddam - are we any less brutal than Saddam was to Iraqis - have you looked at news reels lately of Iraq's neighborhoods - just shells of buildings standing and hundreds upon hundreds of thousands dead and wounded and our gov't has only been "in charge" for 4 years - our annual kill rate has been a lot higher than Saddam's who was in charge for 24 years.

Also why was Saddam's brutality in particular our problem? Please don't get all holier than thou with me regarding Saddam's crimes. Let's face it, our gov't tolerates the same or worse violence against civilian peoples by other despots/regimes than what was perpetuated by Saddam - actually some of the most brutal regimes we even refer to as our dear allies and we prop up with financial aid.

For example, Israel brutalizes the Palestinians 24/7 - do you suggest we attack Israel and forcibly remove its gov't to "free" the Palestinians for humanitarian reasons?

Israel attacked its neighbor, Lebanon, twice already, most recently this summer, displacing 950,000 Lebanese civilians, killing 1000 Lebanese civilians, destroying homes and apartment blocks and valuable infra-structure like the airport, hospitals, schools, roads, leaving unexploded cluster bombs behind that will murder innocents for who knows how many years to come and will contaminate ground water sources as well.

Israel had far more UN resolutions passed against it than Saddam ever had - again, I ask you if we follow your humanitarian reasoning for invading Iraq, why don't we invade Israel and do its neighbors and the people it terrorizes and poaches land from a giant humanitarian favor?

Israel's ongoing violent aggression against the Palestinians and the Lebanese has been Bin Laden's best recruiting tool. As a result, one could say that it is Israel that poses the greatest danger to America's national security. The longer Israel is allowed to keep doing what it does against civilian Muslims, the more numbers of radicalized anti-American, AQ-sympathetic Muslims there will be because we turn a blind eye to the senseless cruelty, the war crimes Israel perpetuates on a regular basis.

scrapper2  posted on  2007-02-15   21:46:26 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#83. To: scrapper2, ALL (#78)

Iraq was not a haven for terrorists.

The fact that the terrorists convicted in Jordan admitted they met with al-Zarqawi in Baghdad before the war is proof you are wrong.

admitted that Saddam was not dealing with AQ or any other terrorists.

Odd. Documents show that before the invasion one of al-Zarqawis lieutenants was arrested by Saddam's police and although the arresting officer wrote that he was convinced the man was guilty, the man was ordered released by Saddam himself.

Also Iraq was so weakened by sanctions since the first Gulf War it was no threat to the US or its neighbors.

It only takes a small amount of WMD to create havoc.

As for the Iraqis brutalized by Saddam - are we any less brutal than Saddam was to Iraqis

Absolutely. And if you doubt this, one has good reason to doubt your grasp of reality.

hundreds upon hundreds of thousands dead and wounded

Really? Prove it.

our annual kill rate has been a lot higher than Saddam's who was in charge for 24 years.

Nonsense. WHO and the UN said thousands of innocent Iraqis were dying every single month when Saddam was in control. As many as 5000 a month. Experts say the mass graves in Iraq contain 300,000 or more bodies. A million died in wars that Saddam started with his neighbors. And there was no end in sight. Rather than cooperate with UN inspectors, Saddam did everything he could to nullify the agreement he signed. He continued to pursue WMD and banned long range delivery systems. He continued to deprive his populace of needed food, medicine, and infrastructure repairs. Instead he spent the money on more palaces, his thugs, his Republican guard, his hedonistic sons, secret bank accounts, Palestinian terrorism, and bribes of UN and non-coalition nation officials.

Also why was Saddam's brutality in particular our problem?

ROTFLOL! I love how you folks on one hand whine about the death of Iraqis and on the other hand say what business is their plight anyway. ROTFLOL!

For example, Israel brutalizes the Palestinians 24/7

Not half as badly as Arab states do.

Israel attacked its neighbor, Lebanon, twice already, most recently this summer,

Well, that's one way to look at it. There is another. It had something to do with an organization that has called for the complete destruction of Israel (indeed, one that will not recognize the right of Israel to even exist) firing missiles into Israeli cities and sending in homicide bombers to blow up ... guess what ... innocent civilians.

Israel had far more UN resolutions passed against it than Saddam ever had

Israel never used WMD against it's own citizens or killed a million in a war.

Israel's ongoing violent aggression against the Palestinians and the Lebanese has been Bin Laden's best recruiting tool.

If it weren't Israel, it would be something else. You FUNDAMENTALLY don't understand what motivates islamofanatics.

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-02-16   1:00:12 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#153. To: BeAChooser (#83)

A million died in wars that Saddam started with his neighbors.

You mean the war with Iran where the US totally backed Saddam and supplied him with large amounts of money and weapons?

Diana  posted on  2007-02-16   11:47:02 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#166. To: Diana (#153)

A million died in wars that Saddam started with his neighbors.

You mean the war with Iran where the US totally backed Saddam and supplied him with large amounts of money and weapons?

Yep that's the one. Funnelled millions of $$$$ through the US Dept of Agriculture to BCCI, set up a munitions factory in Chile to fab anti personnal pop up mines that caused horrific casulties to the Iranians.

They all knew exactly where these terrible weapons were comming from, and even today not one in a thousand Americans have any idea about why the Iranians consider the US Government to be the Great Satan.

tom007  posted on  2007-02-16   12:19:38 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


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