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War, War, War
See other War, War, War Articles

Title: Iraq's death toll is far worse than our leaders admit
Source: The Independent
URL Source: http://iraqwar.mirror-world.ru/article/118356
Published: Feb 14, 2007
Author: Les Roberts
Post Date: 2007-02-14 09:58:38 by leveller
Keywords: None
Views: 30942
Comments: 457

The US and Britain have triggered an episode more deadly than the Rwandan genocide

14 February 2007

On both sides of the Atlantic, a process of spinning science is preventing a serious discussion about the state of affairs in Iraq.

The government in Iraq claimed last month that since the 2003 invasion between 40,000 and 50,000 violent deaths have occurred. Few have pointed out the absurdity of this statement.

There are three ways we know it is a gross underestimate. First, if it were true, including suicides, South Africa, Colombia, Estonia, Kazakhstan, Latvia, Lithuania and Russia have experienced higher violent death rates than Iraq over the past four years. If true, many North and South American cities and Sub-Saharan Africa have had a similar murder rate to that claimed in Iraq. For those of us who have been in Iraq, the suggestion that New Orleans is more violent seems simply ridiculous.

Secondly, there have to be at least 120,000 and probably 140,000 deaths per year from natural causes in a country with the population of Iraq. The numerous stories we hear about overflowing morgues, the need for new cemeteries and new body collection brigades are not consistent with a 10 per cent rise in death rate above the baseline.

And finally, there was a study, peer-reviewed and published in The Lancet, Europe's most prestigious medical journal, which put the death toll at 650,000 as of last July. The study, which I co-authored, was done by the standard cluster approach used by the UN to estimate mortality in dozens of countries each year. While the findings are imprecise, the lower range of possibilities suggested that the Iraq government was at least downplaying the number of dead by a factor of 10.

There are several reasons why the governments involved in this conflict have been able to confuse the issue of Iraqi deaths. Our Lancet report involved sampling and statistical analysis, which is rather dry reading. Media reports always miss most deaths in times of war, so the estimate by the media-based monitoring system, http://Iraqbodycount.org (IBC) roughly corresponds with the Iraq government's figures. Repeated evaluations of deaths identified from sources independent of the press and the Ministry of Health show the IBC listing to be less than 10 per cent complete, but because it matches the reports of the governments involved, it is easily referenced.

Several other estimates have placed the death toll far higher than the Iraqi government estimates, but those have received less press attention. When in 2005, a UN survey reported that 90 per cent of violent attacks in Scotland were not recorded by the police, no one, not even the police, disputed this finding. Representative surveys are the next best thing to a census for counting deaths, and nowhere but Iraq have partial tallies from morgues and hospitals been given such credence when representative survey results are available.

The Pentagon will not release information about deaths induced or amounts of weaponry used in Iraq. On 9 January of this year, the embedded Fox News reporter Brit Hume went along for an air attack, and we learned that at least 25 targets were bombed that day with almost no reports of the damage appearing in the press.

Saddam Hussein's surveillance network, which only captured one third of all deaths before the invasion, has certainly deteriorated even further. During last July, there were numerous televised clashes in Anbar, yet the system recorded exactly zero violent deaths from the province. The last Minister of Health to honestly assess the surveillance network, Dr Ala'din Alwan, admitted that it was not reporting from most of the country by August 2004. He was sacked months later after, among other things, reports appeared based on the limited government data suggesting that most violent deaths were associated with coalition forces.

The consequences of downplaying the number of deaths in Iraq are profound for both the UK and the US. How can the Americans have a surge of troops to secure the population and promise success when the coalition cannot measure the level of security to within a factor of 10? How can the US and Britain pretend they understand the level of resentment in Iraq if they are not sure if, on average, one in 80 families have lost a household member, or one in seven, as our study suggests?

If these two countries have triggered an episode more deadly than the Rwandan genocide, and have actively worked to mask this fact, how will they credibly be able to criticise Sudan or Zimbabwe or the next government that kills thousands of its own people?

For longer than the US has been a nation, Britain has pushed us at our worst of moments to do the right thing. That time has come again with regard to Iraq. It is wrong to be the junior partner in an endeavour rigged to deny the next death induced, and to have spokespeople effectively respond to that death with disinterest and denial.

Our nations' leaders are collectively expressing belligerence at a time when the populace knows they should be expressing contrition. If that cannot be corrected, Britain should end its role in this deteriorating misadventure. It is unlikely that any historians will record the occupation of Iraq in a favourable light. Britain followed the Americans into this débâcle. Wouldn't it be better to let history record that Britain led them out?

The writer is an Associate Professor at Columbia University's Mailman School of Public Health

http://comment.independent.co.uk/commentators/article2268067.ece

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 389.

#3. To: leveller, ALL (#0)

Let's bring a little rationality to a new topic here at FD4UM.

And finally, there was a study, peer-reviewed and published in The Lancet, Europe's most prestigious medical journal, which put the death toll at 650,000 as of last July. The study, which I co-authored, was done by the standard cluster approach used by the UN to estimate mortality in dozens of countries each year. While the findings are imprecise, the lower range of possibilities suggested that the Iraq government was at least downplaying the number of dead by a factor of 10.

This isn't the first report on Iraqi deaths by Les Roberts of John Hopkins to be published by the Lancet. The first one (in which Les was the lead author) claimed 100,000 excess deaths occurred in the first 18 months after the invasion began. This study was *peer reviewed* by the Lancet ... who editors apparently didn't read the report since they proceeded to advertise the first study as saying 100,000 CIVILIANS died during that time, when the study didn't say that at all. But their saying this led thousands of conspiracists and numerous leftist media reporters to claim 100,000 civilians had been murdered by Bush and the evil United States.

In interviews that Les Roberts gave on that first report, he allowed the 100,000 civilian deaths perception to stand uncontested. For example,here (http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/12/14/154251#transcript) is an interview he did with DemocracyNow, a far left media outlet (curious how he could never find time for an interview on a conservative outlet). In it, the interviewer (Gonzalez) says to Roberts "Last year, the prominent British medical journal, Lancet, published a study estimating that over 100,000 Iraqi civilians had died because of the war. The study determined that the risk of death by violence for civilians in Iraq is now 58 times higher than before the U.S. invasion. We are joined in Washington by the lead researcher of that report, Dr. Les Roberts, who is an epidemiologist at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health.". Les Roberts response didn't correct the misinformation about the study in Gonzalez's statement. He let the assertion that the study concluded a 100,000 civilians died stand. I think he did that because Les Roberts is DISHONEST and has an anti-Bush/anti-war agenda. He has from day one, as you will see.

His dishonesty in the above interview continued when discussing the methodology he used. For example, he said, regarding the interviews with Iraqis on which the study was based, "And at the end of the interview, if they had reported someone dead, on a sub-sample, we asked, can you show us the death certificate? And about 82% of the time, they could do that. And we found that the death rate after the invasion was far, far higher than before." He doesn't mention that only in 2 out of 30 homes claiming deaths did they even ask for a death certificate. Nor does he tell his listeners the reason stated in the report why they didn't ask (fear that they would be hurt by those they asked).

And reading that transcript, you will notice that he doesn' t mention the fact that such organizations as WHO and the UN (hardly Bush advocate's) published pre-war mortality rates (a VERY important number in arriving at the estimated number of excess deaths) that were significantly different from what his study found. In fact, his report neither noted or attempted to explain why it's pre-war mortality estimate was so markedly different. The John Hopkin's researchers in the first report said 5 per 1000 per year. Well it turns out that the UN and WHO, in very large studies conducted before the invasion, said 7-8 per 1000 per year. By the way, the Lancet had previously blessed those WHO and UN estimates as correct ... perhaps because at the time doing THAT was hurt the US governments image.

Now there are many more criticisms one can make about that first report. But let's move on to the second report ... the one claiming 655,000 excess deaths. That one has all the defects mentions above plus others.

For example, the second report claims that 92% of those interviewed in their study who claimed deaths in their families (of any kind) since the beginning of the war were able to provide death certificates to prove it when asked. So if the John Hopkin's study methodology is statistically valid, one would expect death certificates from about 92% of 655,000 deaths should be available if someone goes looking for them. That is over 600,000 death certificates. Of the total number of deaths claimed, the John Hopkins report said "601,027 were due to violent causes. Non-violent deaths rose above the pre-invasion level only in 2006." So according to John Hopkin's, most of the death certificates should relate to violent causes.

Now as far as I know, death certificates in Iraq are only issued by the hospitals and morgues. This is what the LATimes (not a friend of Bush or the war) seemed to indicate in June of 2006 when they reported (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-deathtoll25jun25,0,4970736.story?coll=la-home-headlines) that they made a comprehensive search for death certificates throughout Iraq. And you know what they found? Less than 50,000.

Here's what they reported. "The Times attempted to reach a comprehensive figure by obtaining statistics from the Baghdad morgue and the Health Ministry and checking those numbers against a sampling of local health departments for possible undercounts." The article went on to say "the Health Ministry gathers numbers from hospitals in the capital and the outlying provinces. If a victim of violence dies at a hospital or arrives dead, medical officials issue a death certificate. Relatives claim the body directly from the hospital and arrange for a speedy burial in keeping with Muslim beliefs. If the morgue receives a body — usually those deemed suspicious deaths — officials there issue the death certificate. Health Ministry officials said that because death certificates are issued and counted separately, the two data sets are not overlapping. The Baghdad morgue received 30,204 bodies from 2003 through mid-2006, while the Health Ministry said it had documented 18,933 deaths from "military clashes" and "terrorist attacks" from April 5, 2004, to June 1, 2006. Together, the toll reaches 49,137."

So here's the question. Where are the missing death certificates? About 500,000, if one subtracts out the non-violent deaths. For that matter, where are the missing bodies? Where is ANY hard proof (photographic, video, eyewitness reports by journalists, ANYTHING) to prove over 600,000 people have died from violent causes as claimed?

I'll tell you. Such proof doesn't exist because the John Hopkin's studies are BOGUS. It's the result of a group of researchers (some of whom have admitted they disliked Bush and the War) who hired people in Iraq (who they described as HATING Americans) to gather the data.

I think this reviewer of Robert's study (From http://www.windsofchange.net/archives/006694.php) summed it up best: "In contrast to the amiable persona Roberts projected to his sympathetic Chronicle interviewer, Roberts comes across here as committed to exposing the American government's moral culpability in invading Iraq. More than that, Roberts' contention that Americans are passionately hated by the Iraqis he met and worked with ought to raise a red flag. It was those same Iraqis, acting as interviewers and team managers, who recorded and conveyed the surveyed families' impressions of the identities of those who killed their close relatives."

The results are tainted because they were reviewed and published in a journal that not only lied about the first study (claiming it showed 100,000 CIVILIANS died in the first 18 months of the war) but whose editors admit they fast tracked the peer review process so that it could be published before an election and negatively affect the outcome against Bush and the GOP. The methodology was tainted by expecting the sunnis who bore the brunt of the invasion and who hate Americans (because we freed the rest of Iraq from their tyranny) to tell the truth about casualties. And the study is still being tainted by proponents who willfully hide all these facts every time they cite the numbers in order to promote their agenda.

In summary, I'd be very cautious about citing Les Roberts or the Lancet results to prove anything. You might end up only embarrassing yourself.

How the Lancet Cooked the Numbers

Exaggeration won't save Iraqis: The new claims about the civilian death toll in Iraq are vastly overstated"

Another bogus body count from those who brought us the last bogus body count!

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-02-14   21:06:35 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#107. To: BeAChooser (#3)

So you would have us disregard a white paper researched and endorsed by one of the top universities in the world and peer reviewed by one of the two premiere medical journals in the world on the basis of the opinions of mensnewsdaily, The Australian and something called strategypage? And you have the nerve to call other people kooks? ROTFLMAO!!!

If these same "sources" wrote articles poo-pooing your Ron Brown conspiracy theory you'd be denouncing them as being the "liberal media."

Speaking of Ron Brown, would you please explain the cognitive dissonance you appear to hold in relation to Ron Brown's death and your worship of George "it's only a damned piece of paper" Bush? Surly you realize that if such an event did indeed take place that as president, George "Mission accomplished" Bush would not only know about it but would be an active participant in covering up the crime?

KOOK!

ROTFLMAO

F.A. Hayek Fan  posted on  2007-02-16   9:37:09 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#123. To: Hayek Fan, ALL (#107)

So you would have us disregard a white paper researched and endorsed by one of the top universities in the world and peer reviewed by one of the two premiere medical journals in the world on the basis of the opinions

No, I'm suggesting that it be ignored based on the specific facts that I laid out in my post ... facts that NONE of you has even attempted to dispute.

The 655,000 estimate is many, many times larger than any other estimate (and there are half a dozen others). That should raise a red flag.

The report and peer reviewers ignored a major discrepancy between the pre-war mortality estimate derived by the John Hopkins team and the estimate derived by other organizations (such as the UN and WHO) in much larger studies. And these were estimates that the Lancet had endorsed as accurate previously. And this number is one of the key numbers used in determining excess deaths. That should raise a red flag.

According to the report, 92 percent of those who claimed deaths in their families were able to provide death certificates to prove it. Therefore, if the study is statistically valid there should be death certificates available for 92 percent of the 655,000 estimated dead. But investigations by anti-Bush, anti-war media sources have not found evidence of anywhere near that number. What they found were numbers closer to those other, much lower estimates. That should raise a red flag.

The author of the article and the studies has publically stated he disliked Bush and the war, released the study when he did to negatively influence the election against Bush and the GOP, and admitted that those he hired to conduct the study in Iraq "HATE" (that was his word) the Americans. That should raise a red flag.

The Lancet, your premiere medical journal, not only failed in its *peer* review to question why specific numbers used in the study were so vastly different than numbers from previous, larger studies that they had previously blessed, they also reported the deaths as being comprised solely of civilians when the study made no such claim. It doesn't appear as if they even read the study. And they admitted that the peer review process was greatly abbreviated so that the results could be published in time to influence the election. That should raise a red flag.

Then we have the behavior of the lead researchers and anti-war left in promoting the study. When interviewers completely misrepresented the results (for example, calling all the dead "civilians"), Les Roberts and others on his team made no effort to correct those falsehoods. And they went on to lie, both directly and by omission, about the methodology they used. That is indisputable. For example, here is what another of the John Hopkins researchers, Richard Garfield, told an interviewer. http://www.epic-usa.org/Default.aspx?tabid=440 "First of all, very few people refused or were unable to take part in the sample, to our surprise most people had death certificates and we were able to confirm most of the deaths we investigated." That is a LIE since the first study (which is what he was talking about) indicates they only confirmed 7% of them. And Les Roberts did the same thing in an interview . That should raise a red flag.

In the interview URLed above, Garfield stated "And here you see that deaths recorded in the Baghdad morgue were, for a long period, around 200 per month." Get that? 200 a month, in one of the biggest and most violent regions in the country. And now Les Roberts is asking us to believe that 15,000 were dying each month in the country since the war began. That should raise a red flag.

And by the way, Garfield is another of those who advocated mortality statistics before the war that are widely divergent from those derived using the Les Roberts study interviews. In fact, Richard Garfield said the most probable number of deaths of under-five children from August 1991 to June 2002 would be about 400,000. His *expert* opinion was that the rate in 2002 would was 9-10 percent compared to the Les Robert's estimate of 2.9 percent. So why didn't he address that disparity? That should raise a red flag. And the Lancet blessed and championed the conclusions of Garfield back in 2002. So why did they ignore the discrepancy during their peer review of Les Robert's study? That should raise a red flag.

And there is more.

There is NO physical evidence to support the claim that 655,000 Iraqis were killed from the beginning of the war to mid 2006. There are no bodies. There are not photos of mountains of bodies. There are no videos of this slaughter. There are no reporters saying they saw these bodies. There are not US or foreign soldiers providing evidence of such a slaughter. That should raise a red flag.

In fact, take Dahr Jamail as an example. He's viralently anti-American. He has close ties to the insurgents. Here is his website: http://dahrjamailiraq.com/ "Weary of the overall failure of the US media to accurately report on the realities of the war in Iraq for the Iraqi people and US soldiers, Dahr Jamail went to Iraq to report on the war himself. His dispatches were quickly recognized as an important media resource and he is now writing for the Inter Press Service, The Asia Times and many other outlets. His reports have also been published with The Nation, The Sunday Herald, Islam Online, the Guardian and the Independent to name just a few. Dahr's dispatches and hard news stories have been translated into French, Polish, German, Dutch, Spanish, Japanese, Portuguese, Chinese, Arabic and Turkish. On radio as well as television, Dahr reports for Democracy Now!, the BBC, and numerous other stations around the globe. Dahr is also special correspondent for Flashpoints. Dahr has spent a total of 8 months in occupied Iraq as one of only a few independent US journalists in the country." You go ahead and look on his website for any indication that 500, much less 100 Iraqis were dying every single day back in 2003 and 2004 when he first started reporting from Iraq which was during the period covered by not only the second but the first John Hopkins study. You won't find any indication. That should raise a red flag.

Last year was arguably the most violent since the invasion. Yet even the Iraqis reported the number killed was on the order of 16,000 in that year ... an average of 45 a day. That certainly stands in sharp constrast to the John Hopkins researchers (and their proponents) who claim that more than 500 a day have died every day on average since the invasion began. That should raise a red flag.

Then there are problems with specific numbers in the studies. For example, the number of dead their methodology gives in Fallujah is so staggering ... so ridiculous ... that even the John Hopkins researchers had to discard the data point. Yet in interviews, Les Roberts has responded as if the Fallujah data was accurate. For example, in an interview with Socialist Workers Online (http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/article.php4?article_id=6271), when asked why two thirds of all violent deaths were concentrated in this city, Les Roberts didn't respond "the data was wrong or atypical in Fallujah" as it states in his report. No, he answered the question as if he thought the data point was representative of what happened in Fallujah as a whole. He said "we think that our findings, if anything, underestimated the number of deaths because of the number of empty and destroyed houses. Some of the families probably fled, but many are probably dead. Of those families sticking around in Fallujah, a quarter lost a family member in the few months leading up to the interview." That should raise a red flag.

Here are some more articles pointing out problems with the study that I know you won't bother to even read:

http://slate.msn.com/id/2108887

http://www.chicagoboyz.net/archives/003153.html#more

http://www.chicagoboyz.net/archives/002549.html

http://frankwarner.typepad.com/free_frank_warner/2005/03/the_fallujah_fa.html

http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/dveathby.htm

http://www.economist.com/science/displayStory.cfm?story_id=3352814

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/004/858gwbza.asp

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-02-16   11:01:54 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#216. To: BeAChooser (#123) (Edited)

Here are some more articles pointing out problems with the study that I know you won't bother to even read:

You are right in that I won't bother to read them. If the information is/was incorrect, then scholars would have taken the report to task piece by piece in other peer reviewed journals, if not the Lancet itself in its next publication. Why didn't JAMA protest the report? I mean if it was such an obvious anti-war hit piece, surly JAMA would have stepped in. If for no other reason than to make a rival publication look bad. Yet they didn't. Are they liberal anti-war American haters as well? Why hasn't any other peer reviewed publication taken the report to task? And they haven't. You know how I know? Because if they had, then you would have posted those publications and wouldn't be forced to post links to the rags you did.

Why in heaven's name should I care what Slate, The Economist or the Weekly Standard say or believe about anything? They have no expertise in the matter. If true experts had problems with the report, they would have made their objections known in the proper circles and the proper professional publications. You can't masquerade a political hit piece as a research paper. There are to many other professionals with other political leanings who would not allow it. Then there are those with no political leanings at all but who take their jobs seriously and wouldn't allow their field to be abused in such a way. Every research paper has a section that lists the exact methodology used to obtain the information. If the methods they used were unsound, then it would have been pointed out by other scholars in that field. Someone (or many) people would have used the report's notoriety to create their own research papers to rebut the original report in order to correct the record and/or make names for themselves within their field(s). This is how it is done. It is preposterous, in my opinion, to think that a group of professionals would risk their credibilty (i.e. livelihood) in order to make up an anti-war hit piece. They would never be taken seriously again in their fields of expertise.

And who the heck are the chicagoboyz and why would I give a hoot about what they have to say about anything? The same goes for Frank Warner or Pappillonartsplace. I mean come on BAC, get real. At least Slate, The Economist and Weekly Standard are known publications. These other people could be hair stylists, political hacks or child molesters as far as I know.

But unlike others, I have no desire to go back and forth with you over the matter. If you want to believe that the report is a big conspiracy to make Bush look bad, then by all means, you go right ahead. I'm not required to agree with you nor you with me.

F.A. Hayek Fan  posted on  2007-02-16   15:20:17 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#280. To: Hayek Fan, ALL (#216)

You are right in that I won't bother to read them.

ROTFLOL! You're an open book.

And you are under the mistaken impression that I'm trying to sway you. I'm not because I know that is hopeless. I'm just trying to keep the next poor soul who stumbles onto FD4UM and a thread like this from making the mistake of thinking truth is the goal of folks like you and the others at FD4UM. And I think they will all note that I've proven some very serious flaws in the study, bias in it's authors and blindness in its proponents.

You don't like the commentary I've supplied so far? You don't want to read it? Suit yourself. Don't delude yourself into thinking folks haven't noticed the failure of ANYONE on this thread to address the points I made in post #123. Each one of them is valid and provable. Take, for instance, the study's estimate of pre-war mortality being dramatically different than previous studies ... bigger studies, in fact ... that the Lancet also blessed. And yet Les Roberts and the peer reviewers never addressed that. Take, for instance, the missing death certificates. The study cannot possibly be statistically valid unless the death certificates could be found for about 92% of the claimed 655,000 deaths. Even the LATimes, who was undoubtedly trying to prove that huge numbers of Iraqis had been killed because they too are against the war, could not come up with more than 50,000. Even if the LATimes missed 2 or 3 times that number, there still are an awful lot of death certificates missing for the Hopkin's estimate to be remotely believable.

Now you can stick your head in the ground. That's your privilege. But don't think readers (at least the readers I'm interested in reaching) won't notice.

And by the way, I'm going to post even more URLS to sources that are critical of the John Hopkins/Lancet study. There are plenty that I still haven't linked. I'll do it as I respond to others on this thread. This time I think I'll actually quote the articles themselves. Perhaps if you won't go Mohammed, Mohammed can come to you. And maybe you'll notice there's a few statisticians amongst the authors of these criticisms.

ROTFLOL!

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-02-17   0:18:14 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#337. To: BeAChooser (#280)

And by the way, I'm going to post even more URLS to sources that are critical of the John Hopkins/Lancet study.

You've posted links to blogs. Why is it that you have no links to professional, peer reviewed research? Because it's not out there. Man this left wing conspriracy is vast! It emcompasses academia throughout the whole world!

I would no more accept blog information as a "source" than you would accept it as a source in the WTC debate. You can post as many links critical of the Lancet study as you like. If I cared to take the time, I'm sure I could find just as many blogs that supported the study. However, Blogs are not credible sources, period, so it doesn't matter. They are the opinions of people who may or may not know what they are speaking of. However, if they did know what they were talking about, then why haven't they presented their information for peer review? The Bush administration would jump all over it in order to prove the inaccuracy of the Lancet study.

The questions asked and information presented in your blogs may be legitimate. However, they may also be based on flawed premises, logic, or information. Then again, they could just be strawman arguments made to confuse and muddy the waters by the Bush admin internet propaganda team. There may be legitimate and perfectly rational reasons for the methodology the researchers used in their study.I am not an epidemiologist and to my knowldege, neither are you. IMO it is unreasonable to believe that a study so flawed (as you contend) would be allowed to stand on such an important topic by those within that particular field. Yet it has been allowed to stand. There is a reason for this, and while you may believe that reason is due to liberalism and/or anti-war sentiment, I do not.

You're not proving anything to anyone because you are not posting anything serious. You are posting opinion pieces that prove nothing.

However, you misunderstand me and my attitude on the study. I do not take it as gospel. As the saying goes, statistics lie and liars use statistics. I'm only pointing out that there are not any reputable studies backing up your assertions that the study was inaccurate and/or politically driven.

Also, for those interested, in October 2006, Johns Hopkins reaffirmed the original study: "Updated Iraq Survey Affirms Earlier Mortality Estimates. Mortality Trends Comparable to Estimates by Those Using Other Counting Methods

http://www.jhsph.edu/publichealthnews/press_releases/2006/burnham_iraq_2006.html

I've gotta run. It's Saturday and I have family stuff to do.

F.A. Hayek Fan  posted on  2007-02-17   12:36:01 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#366. To: Hayek Fan, scrapper2, kiwi, Burkeman1, bluedogtxn, ..., Diana, ALL (#337)

You've posted links to blogs. Why is it that you have no links to professional, peer reviewed research? Because it's not out there.

The problem with you and your friend, Halek, is you apparently can't be troubled to actually read what I posted. For example, didn't you see this?

http://www.iq.undp.org/ILCS/PDF/Analytical%20Report%20-%20English.pdf

It's a study by the UN Development program which found that the 2004 Lancet study was off by about a factor of 4. The UN found after the first year that there were 24,000 war-related deaths (18,000-29,000, with a 95% confidence level), which is approximately 1/4th the number of excess deaths the Les Roberts and his John Hopkins team claim they found with their survey. And the UN used similar techniques - clusters, etc. - but with a much larger data set.

Didn't you see the citations to the UN and WHO studies done before the invasion that were blessed by the same journal that peer reviewed Les Robert's study? Didn't you see that they found much larger pre-war mortality rates than Les Robert's study came up with (7-8 per 1000 per year versus 5 per 1000 per year). Surely you aren't trying to dispute that fact because if you are then it shows you not only haven't read my posts you are very unfamiliar with the literature on this topic. That number is a key parameter in determining the excess deaths. If this number is actually closer to 7 or 8 then 5 or 5.5, then the number of excess deaths drops dramatically.

You aren't fooling anyone with this tactic, Halek.

You haven't addressed a single FACT I listed in post #123.

Don't think that readers of this thread won't notice that.

You don't like the blog I've been posting from most recently? Don't want to read it? Fine with me. I don't care. I'm not trying to convince you or the others posting on this thread. I know that's hopeless. But some of the forums lurkers may read what I post. Here's a nice summary the blog author did of what he found. I haven't found anything wrong with it:

************************

http://notropis.blogspot.com/

Update: Here's more from a real-life statistical researcher, courtesy of the Wall Street Journal:

http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110009108

Iraqi Death Survey Wrap-Up

After re-reading the articles by Steven E. Moore, in the Wall Street Journal and Iraq Body Count, as well as perusing the comments on many other blogs, I've decided that one last post might be in order on this topic. I'll break my observations down into three broad topics:

1. The construction of the survey
2. The conduct of the survey
3. The analysis of the results

(I also add, here, that Iraq Body Count's criticism of the results of the study, based on what I would describe as face validity, seem to me to be very compelling. I won't address those issues, as I'm in no way competent to offer an analysis that could compete with that of Iraq Body Count.)

1. The construction of the survey:

A) Steven Moore makes much of the fact that 47 clusters were used, and this is far too small, given the extremely non-uniform distribution of violent deaths in Iraq. He may well be right; he's certainly more experienced in surveying techniques than am I. Several opposing voices have pointed out that Mr. Moore himself has used only 75 clusters in similar situations, and others have used 150, or whatever. This sort of analysis quickly gets out of the realm of statistics and into polemics and name-calling. My problem with the number of clusters has to do with the assumed stratification of the population.

This survey was, at the top level, a stratified survey. Iraq was divided into its Governorates, and the number of clusters chosen per Governorate was decided by population. Evidently, the authors had reason to believe that there might be significant differences in death rates between Governorates (which was confirmed by their own results.) Unfortunately, in all but two Governorates, three or fewer clusters were selected from that Governorate. In several cases, only a single cluster was selected. How can one possibly control for the possibility of getting a very unrepresentative cluster, when a sample of a single cluster is used? The authors say that they did comparisons between clusters and within clusters. Within clusters, I'll grant you. But between clusters? Evidently between clusters from different strata. This makes no sense. If you stratify a population, it is because you are assuming, a priori, that there may be significant differences between strata (Governorates.) You can't then turn around and compare between strata to attempt to identify, or compensate for, a single cluster as being representative or unrepresentative of that particular stratum. In the famous words of Kwame Nkrumah upon his removal by coup as the first President of Ghana, "You can't compare one thing."

When a stratified sampling is used, it is common practice to use a large enough sample to get several draws (even if each draw consists of a cluster of individual samples) from each stratum.

B) The method of selecting named main streets, followed by named cross streets is certainly not random, and quite possibly not representative.

I don't know much about what proportion or which streets are named in Iraq. But I have had several experiences which lead me to question whether the distribution of officially named and recorded main streets and cross streets is uniform enough to use as a basis for a random selection procedure.

How many streets are named? In rural America, where I now live, the answer is "almost all." But even ten years ago, the answer was "most in some places, none in others." The change came about due to the 911 emergency calling system. Here in my town of 300, the locals laugh that a UPS guy can find your house from the address, but none of the citizens could. My official address is XYZ 3rd St. (has been officially so named for about 8 years), but if I want to tell anyone where I live, I have to say "the old Hoffman house." I would suspect that much of Iraq still doesn't have streets (main or cross) that would be listed in an official directory.

Back when I lived in Liberia, we conducted health and demographic surveys in conjunction with the national vaccination campaigns. I was just a foot soldier, working the villages of Grand Cape Mount County, and have no idea how the cluster selection process was done, but I can guarantee that it wasn't done by street name. Outside of Robertsport, there wasn't a named street in all of the county. At that time, I would guess that fewer than 50 communities in the entire nation had named streets, and that, even in the most advanced places, like Monrovia, fewer than 50% of the population lived on a named street, and those who did, were distinctly non-representative on many levels. On the urban side, the most densely populated part of Monrovia was an area called West Point. I lived there for about two months. I estimated the population at the time at about 30,000 -and there wasn't a single street, named or otherwise, in the entire slum. I'm thinking Sadr City, Baghdad looks a lot like West Point, Monrovia in that respect.

My guess is that the systematic selection of only named cross streets to named main streets as listed in an official directory will systematically exclude broad segments of the Iraqi population, namely the rural, the urban poor, and the internally-displaced refugees. Whether this systematic bias skews the survey results up or down or is neutral, I don't know, nor does anyone else (if they did, then why the hell would anyone be doing the survey?) The fact is, that it's bad statistical methodology to use a systematic selection method that consistently biases against particular large demographics.

Several posters to Tim Blair's blog (see link below) brought up a further problem with the selection process. Although it's a bit unclear from the description in the articles, it appears that all of the clusters were chosen from a named cross street, at a distance fairly close to a main street. The report says that "a house was chosen at random," but does not specify how that random starting place was selected, or what the maximum distance from the main street the starting point would be. They (the blog posters) suggest that violence might be concentrated nearer the main streets and that therefore the incidence of violent deaths would be higher close to a main street. Again, there's no way to know that, but, again, systematic bias is bad practice, and can lead to results far outside of the "margin of error" (which, of course, is constructed assuming an absolute absence of non-sampling, or "methodological," error.)

2. The conduct of the survey:

Here's where my analysis gets a bit dicey, but I've got to point out what I see, and here's where my experience of many years as a statistics teacher, supervising and grading student projects, leads me to grave doubts about what the survey teams actually did and didn't do.

A) The response rates reported by the teams, in terms of their success at finding a head of household or spouse at home and willing to participate are just amazingly, extremely, insanely, unbelievably high, especially given the fact that the teams never once paid a second visit to a household, due to the dangers they were facing, working in a war zone, and apparently worked throughout the day, rather than confining their visits to times when respondents would be likely to be home (see the time constraint concern, below.)

The authors report that in 99%+ of the households, someone was at home. They also claim that in only one cluster were any empty households found among the 40 adjacent households surveyed. They phrase it so as to insinuate that they are minimizing the death estimates:

"Households where all members were dead or had gone away were reported in only one cluster in Ninewa and these deaths are not included in this report."

This quote has become a favorite among some blogs as showing that, in fact, the real numbers must be much higher than those in the survey, since any annihilated households have been discounted. It's definitely true that the phrase "were dead or had gone away" followed by the "these deaths" clearly implies that the researchers have reason to believe that the former occupants of the households in question were all dead (without explicitly stating so.) But what bothers me is the implication that vacant houses were supposedly encountered in only one cluster in all of Iraq, and, by insinuation, none vacated by emigration. With estimates of over a million recent emigrants from Iraq entirely, and up to that many again internally displaced persons (together pushing 7% of the total population of Iraq), one would have expected to see more, and more widely distributed, vacant houses -even if no entire households had been annihilated. The next question becomes, what's the difference between a "household where all members were dead or had gone away' and the"16 (0.9%) dwellings [where] residents were absent.' The latter evidently includes households where the surveyors believed that someone was still living, but no one was home when they knocked (or so I'm guessing.)

In any event, the fact that 7% or more of Iraqis have vacated their homes (for other parts of Iraq, or other parts of the world, or Heaven,) and yet that less than 1% of the households surveyed found no one at home, is very suspicious to me. If nothing else, it calls into question the representativeness of the sampling. The <1% "not at home," even absent the contributing concerns, raises all kinds of red flags for me.

B) Among those that were at home, only "15 (0.8%) households refused to participate." Given the purported methodology of the survey, this must also include any households where some members were home, but not the head of household or spouse, since we're guaranteed that the head of household or spouse were the only ones questioned. So we're left (combining A and B) with the astounding result that in more than 98% of the attempted contacts, the head of household or spouse was at home and willing to participate in the survey, and this, without a single call-back, since attempting a second contact with a household was deemed too dangerous for the survey teams. What makes these results doubly surprising is that the surveys must have been conducted throughout the day, in order to accomplish 40 surveys per day (see below.) So, somehow, a total of 15 or fewer "Dad's at work (or the Mosque or wherever), Mom's at the market" responses in over 1700 attempts.

It's quite possible that 15+ years of teaching Introductory Statistics and similar courses has left me a bit jaded, but I know that I'd be calling these survey teams into my office, with some serious questions about what they actually did or did not do, before accepting any of their results.

C) The time spent per survey belies the notion that great care was taken to insure the interviewees' comprehension of the questions and the interviewers' assurances of accuracy in the answers. According to the article, the survey teams "could typically complete a cluster of 40 households in 1 day." The survey teams reportedly consisted of 4 members each, two male and two female. It is not stated how or whether the teams split up in conducting the interviews. From what I've heard about Islamic culture, it would seem likely that they would not have gone out individually, given that some women might be reluctant to speak to a single man, and vice versa. So, if we assume that they split up into two pairs of one male, one female doctor each, then each pair was interviewing 20 households in a day. Even assuming 8 hours per day for fieldwork, this leaves less than 24 minutes per interview (less than because it takes some time to walk from house to house.) Based on my own experiences with face-to-face interviewing, this would be maybe 15 minutes for the actual survey questioning (there's always a cushion for formalities, pleasantries, getting settled and whatnot.) Somewhere in there, also, the interview teams had the time to reassure the interviewees of their honesty and good intentions, and double-check any questionalbe results. Read what the article claims went on at each interview:

"The survey purpose was explained to the head of household or spouse, and oral consent was obtained. Participants were assured that no unique identifiers would be gathered. No incentives were provided. The survey listed current household members by sex, and asked who had lived in this household on January 1, 2002. The interviewers then asked about births, deaths, and in-migration and out-migration, and confirmed that the reported inflow and exit of residents explained the differences in composition between the start and end of the recall period. .... Deaths were recorded only if the decedent had lived in the household continuously for 3 months before the event. Additional probing was done to establish the cause and circumstances of deaths to the extent feasible, taking into account family sensitivities. At the conclusion of household interviews where deaths were reported, surveyors requested to see a copy of any death certificate and its presence was recorded. Where differences between the household account and the cause mentioned on the certificate existed, further discussions were sometimes needed to establish the primary cause of death."

Now, it's tough to compare different cultures, but when I worked on the health surveys in Liberia, we'd figure on maybe 3 or 4 good interviews per day, by the time we were satisfied that the interviewees were understanding the questions correctly and we were understanding the answers correctly (and we always had at least one interviewer who was a native speaker of the dialect.) Canned political surveys in America tend to take over 5 minutes each, even though the interviewees pretty well know what to expect in terms of the questions, and the surveyors have no need to verify things like death certificates.

So, 15 minutes or so per survey? I guess it's possible, since some might be very easy ("All six of us have lived here for many years, and no one has died"), but I'm suspicious whether the implied care was actually taken in the interview process.

D) Due to safety concerns, the survey teams were apparently allowed great latitude in changing the pre-determined cluster to a more convenient one.

In terms of statistical validity, this point is crucial. The article states:

"Decisions on sampling sites were made by the field manager. The interview team were given the responsibility and authority to change to an alternate location if they perceived the level of insecurity or risk to be unacceptable."

The authors give us no information about how often these changes were forced to be made, and absent that information, this survey is, simply, worthless. No amount of advanced statistical massaging can fix a sampling of convenience. So, did the violence in Iraq force one change, two changes, forty changes? We don't know. But what we do know is that there is a clear admission of selection bias in the sampling. Given the sectarian tensions in Iraq, even granting the alleged professionalism of the canvassing teams, it is impossible to tell the impact of these biases. The implication in the report is clearly that more deadly areas were underrepresented, but were more distant (possibly safe) areas also selected against because of the level of risk required to reach them? Were teams of Shia (resp. Sunii) doctors afraid to enter areas where they thought themselves unwelcome? Did coalition roadblocks or bombing campaigns lead to certain areas of the country being off-limits? I find it very troubling that while the authors of the article go out of their way to mention anecdotes like the fact that households where everyone was killed were not counted, and that some interviewees may have been afraid to admit that they have had family members killed, this essential bit of information ("how often were the survey teams forced to deviate from the pre-determined cluster, and what procedures did they implement to attempt to insure that an equally representative cluster was selected") was left out of both the article, and the appendices (at the versions I've found. I'd appreciate it greatly if someone could point me to this information, if it's published.)

Once again, it would be easy to jump to the conclusion that any deviations would lead the estimates to be low (this is clearly the authors' implication in their wording: "if they perceived the level of insecurity or risk to be unacceptable"), but any deviations of this sort remove the survey from the realm of statistical science, into the realm of conjecture, anecdote or advocacy.

E) Given the freedom apparently allowed the survey teams to deviate from pre-selected cluster sites, and to determine the starting point for the cluster (on the street), as well as the above-mentioned concerns about veracity, the fact that there were only two survey teams involved in the entire survey, and that these teams had only two days of training, leads to the fact that any selection bias introduced by the survey teams will skew the results greatly, all in the same direction. If there were many teams, we might expect that some might be making selections that (consciously or unconsciously) minimize the reported number of deaths, while others might be making selections that maximize them, and others might be making selections that were essentially neutral. Given that there were only two teams, these biases have much less chance of canceling each other out, and much greater risk of increasing the actual margin for error.

Dr. Donald Berry, the chairman of the Applied Statistics and Bioscience Department at the University of Texas-Austin, put it this way:

"Selecting clusters and households that are representative and random is enormously difficult. Moreover, any bias on the part of the interviewers in the selection process would occur in every cluster and would therefore be magnified. The authors point out the possibility of bias, but they do not account for it in their report." (see link below)

3. The analysis of the results:

Here's where the article is apparently on its most solid ground, but since none of the methodology involved in the analysis has been published, it's hard to say. I'm guessing that this would be what any peer review would concentrate on, and given the quality of statistical software, it's hard to make mistakes in statistical analysis. I'd be surprised if there were any grave flaws in analysis that I could uncover made by a PhD in statistics, which I definitely am not. As Mark Chu-Carrol notes at GoodMath/BadMath, it's surprisingly in this area where most of the attacks have concentrated, and, consequently why most of the attacks can be dismissed as failures on the critics' part to understand statistics.

Be that as it may, the authors do provide enough detail for me to find one criticism in their analysis, which they themselves allude to, but attempt to minimize:

"The population data used for cluster selection were at least 2 years old, and if populations subsequently migrated from areas of high mortality to those with low mortality, the sample might have over-represented the high-mortality areas."

"[I]nternal population movement would be less likely to affect results appreciably [than emigration from Iraq.]"

As I pointed out in an earlier post (Part VI), the effects of faulty population estimates (due to massive internal migration) can have considerable impact on the extrapolations, because they have essentially double impact -first in making some more violent areas more likely to be sampled than their current populations would warrant, and then again, in calculating the estimates, since the same inflated numbers would be used to multiply out the projected values.

Supporters of this study have latched onto this criticism, accepting it (for the sake of the argument) and then pointing out that even still, it would only lower estimates by a few percent (even lowering it by 25% would still leave the estimates many times higher than others, after all), and so I was a bit hesitant to bring it up, as providing an opportunity to ignore the other concerns that, if valid, go to the heart of any legitimacy whatsoever for this study. But, since I noticed it, and it seems a true potential for error, I'm pointing it out, again.

My purpose, throughout this critique, is not to claim that particular errors in the study would lead the reported results to be too high, or too low, or balance out. As I always tell my students, if you really knew the effect of a bias, there'd be no need to do the study to begin with. You could just use your amazing reasoning powers and puzzle out how many deaths there really have been in Iraq, due to the Coalition's actions, and then yell at everybody about how smart you are, and then they'd all believe you. My purpose is to point out the places where this study failed to use good statistical methodology, and to show up evidence that leads me to conclude that the survey teams' reports, themselves, are suspect. These suspicions (about the survey teams) are not necessarily grounds to deduce intentional bias. From personal experience, I know that many amateur data collectors under-report the difficulties they have in obtaining responses, believing that a higher non-response rate reflects negatively on their own skills, and over-report things like how many deaths they were able to validate by certificate for the same reason. Further, the less thorough the interview process, and I' ve pointed out how quickly they must have been conducted, the more the interviewers' biases influence the reported responses, even when the survey teams believe they are recording the results fairly. Finally, given the extremely high sectarian tensions in Iraq, it would seem unlikely that a mere two teams of 4 physicians each, given a high degree of selection autonomy, would produce unquestionably unbiased results under the hectic conditions they were experiencing in Iraq.

Two final notes about those death certificates: 1. The authors, it seems to me, do a good job of explaining why we would expect to see a high discrepancy between the number of death certificates that family can produce, and the number of officially recorded deaths at the national level. What they do not address, is why no attempt was made to double-check the totals locally, at least in areas of less chaos. This would have provided a good check on the representativeness of their sample. Steven Moore makes a similar point, regarding basic demographic information (which a bunch of his critics in the blogs have misunderstood entirely.) Had the surveyors conducted a basic survey of demographic data per household (men, women, old, young, whatever), this could have been used to compare with the other population estimates to get a check on whether their particular clusters were, at least in these respects, representative. Instead, they were left, far too often, with no legitimate means of checking for representativeness of a particular cluster.

2. The question must be addressed as to whether there would be any incentive for Iraqis to falsify death certificates. I don't know the answer to this. But it is an important question. Given the corruption, chaos and confusion that is a fact of life in Iraq today, it would be very easy to forge death certificates, and if there is any market for such forged documents, we must assume that they exist in great numbers. Are coalition forces making cash payments for collateral deaths? Are families hiding members for their own safety by falsifying death records? I don't know the answer to these questions, but it would be foolish to accept the validity of the certificates without an analysis of the incentive to falsify them. Again, I speak from experience with West African nations, where the levels of corruption and confusion are probably not as high as currently in Iraq, but where, if there's a need for an official document, it can always be created, for the right price.

******************

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-02-18   17:13:50 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#389. To: beachooser, Critter, Christine, Brian S, Honway, Robin, Aristeides, Red Jones, Diana, Kamala, All (#366)

BAC, BAC, BAC -

These were all killed at the hands of American War Crimes. The numbers matter little, whatever they are.

There's the bottom line, Slurpy.

All your spamming can't change that.


SKYDRIFTER  posted on  2007-02-19   1:15:13 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


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