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War, War, War
See other War, War, War Articles

Title: Iraq's death toll is far worse than our leaders admit
Source: The Independent
URL Source: http://iraqwar.mirror-world.ru/article/118356
Published: Feb 14, 2007
Author: Les Roberts
Post Date: 2007-02-14 09:58:38 by leveller
Keywords: None
Views: 31727
Comments: 457

The US and Britain have triggered an episode more deadly than the Rwandan genocide

14 February 2007

On both sides of the Atlantic, a process of spinning science is preventing a serious discussion about the state of affairs in Iraq.

The government in Iraq claimed last month that since the 2003 invasion between 40,000 and 50,000 violent deaths have occurred. Few have pointed out the absurdity of this statement.

There are three ways we know it is a gross underestimate. First, if it were true, including suicides, South Africa, Colombia, Estonia, Kazakhstan, Latvia, Lithuania and Russia have experienced higher violent death rates than Iraq over the past four years. If true, many North and South American cities and Sub-Saharan Africa have had a similar murder rate to that claimed in Iraq. For those of us who have been in Iraq, the suggestion that New Orleans is more violent seems simply ridiculous.

Secondly, there have to be at least 120,000 and probably 140,000 deaths per year from natural causes in a country with the population of Iraq. The numerous stories we hear about overflowing morgues, the need for new cemeteries and new body collection brigades are not consistent with a 10 per cent rise in death rate above the baseline.

And finally, there was a study, peer-reviewed and published in The Lancet, Europe's most prestigious medical journal, which put the death toll at 650,000 as of last July. The study, which I co-authored, was done by the standard cluster approach used by the UN to estimate mortality in dozens of countries each year. While the findings are imprecise, the lower range of possibilities suggested that the Iraq government was at least downplaying the number of dead by a factor of 10.

There are several reasons why the governments involved in this conflict have been able to confuse the issue of Iraqi deaths. Our Lancet report involved sampling and statistical analysis, which is rather dry reading. Media reports always miss most deaths in times of war, so the estimate by the media-based monitoring system, http://Iraqbodycount.org (IBC) roughly corresponds with the Iraq government's figures. Repeated evaluations of deaths identified from sources independent of the press and the Ministry of Health show the IBC listing to be less than 10 per cent complete, but because it matches the reports of the governments involved, it is easily referenced.

Several other estimates have placed the death toll far higher than the Iraqi government estimates, but those have received less press attention. When in 2005, a UN survey reported that 90 per cent of violent attacks in Scotland were not recorded by the police, no one, not even the police, disputed this finding. Representative surveys are the next best thing to a census for counting deaths, and nowhere but Iraq have partial tallies from morgues and hospitals been given such credence when representative survey results are available.

The Pentagon will not release information about deaths induced or amounts of weaponry used in Iraq. On 9 January of this year, the embedded Fox News reporter Brit Hume went along for an air attack, and we learned that at least 25 targets were bombed that day with almost no reports of the damage appearing in the press.

Saddam Hussein's surveillance network, which only captured one third of all deaths before the invasion, has certainly deteriorated even further. During last July, there were numerous televised clashes in Anbar, yet the system recorded exactly zero violent deaths from the province. The last Minister of Health to honestly assess the surveillance network, Dr Ala'din Alwan, admitted that it was not reporting from most of the country by August 2004. He was sacked months later after, among other things, reports appeared based on the limited government data suggesting that most violent deaths were associated with coalition forces.

The consequences of downplaying the number of deaths in Iraq are profound for both the UK and the US. How can the Americans have a surge of troops to secure the population and promise success when the coalition cannot measure the level of security to within a factor of 10? How can the US and Britain pretend they understand the level of resentment in Iraq if they are not sure if, on average, one in 80 families have lost a household member, or one in seven, as our study suggests?

If these two countries have triggered an episode more deadly than the Rwandan genocide, and have actively worked to mask this fact, how will they credibly be able to criticise Sudan or Zimbabwe or the next government that kills thousands of its own people?

For longer than the US has been a nation, Britain has pushed us at our worst of moments to do the right thing. That time has come again with regard to Iraq. It is wrong to be the junior partner in an endeavour rigged to deny the next death induced, and to have spokespeople effectively respond to that death with disinterest and denial.

Our nations' leaders are collectively expressing belligerence at a time when the populace knows they should be expressing contrition. If that cannot be corrected, Britain should end its role in this deteriorating misadventure. It is unlikely that any historians will record the occupation of Iraq in a favourable light. Britain followed the Americans into this débâcle. Wouldn't it be better to let history record that Britain led them out?

The writer is an Associate Professor at Columbia University's Mailman School of Public Health

http://comment.independent.co.uk/commentators/article2268067.ece

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 70.

#3. To: leveller, ALL (#0)

Let's bring a little rationality to a new topic here at FD4UM.

And finally, there was a study, peer-reviewed and published in The Lancet, Europe's most prestigious medical journal, which put the death toll at 650,000 as of last July. The study, which I co-authored, was done by the standard cluster approach used by the UN to estimate mortality in dozens of countries each year. While the findings are imprecise, the lower range of possibilities suggested that the Iraq government was at least downplaying the number of dead by a factor of 10.

This isn't the first report on Iraqi deaths by Les Roberts of John Hopkins to be published by the Lancet. The first one (in which Les was the lead author) claimed 100,000 excess deaths occurred in the first 18 months after the invasion began. This study was *peer reviewed* by the Lancet ... who editors apparently didn't read the report since they proceeded to advertise the first study as saying 100,000 CIVILIANS died during that time, when the study didn't say that at all. But their saying this led thousands of conspiracists and numerous leftist media reporters to claim 100,000 civilians had been murdered by Bush and the evil United States.

In interviews that Les Roberts gave on that first report, he allowed the 100,000 civilian deaths perception to stand uncontested. For example,here (http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/12/14/154251#transcript) is an interview he did with DemocracyNow, a far left media outlet (curious how he could never find time for an interview on a conservative outlet). In it, the interviewer (Gonzalez) says to Roberts "Last year, the prominent British medical journal, Lancet, published a study estimating that over 100,000 Iraqi civilians had died because of the war. The study determined that the risk of death by violence for civilians in Iraq is now 58 times higher than before the U.S. invasion. We are joined in Washington by the lead researcher of that report, Dr. Les Roberts, who is an epidemiologist at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health.". Les Roberts response didn't correct the misinformation about the study in Gonzalez's statement. He let the assertion that the study concluded a 100,000 civilians died stand. I think he did that because Les Roberts is DISHONEST and has an anti-Bush/anti-war agenda. He has from day one, as you will see.

His dishonesty in the above interview continued when discussing the methodology he used. For example, he said, regarding the interviews with Iraqis on which the study was based, "And at the end of the interview, if they had reported someone dead, on a sub-sample, we asked, can you show us the death certificate? And about 82% of the time, they could do that. And we found that the death rate after the invasion was far, far higher than before." He doesn't mention that only in 2 out of 30 homes claiming deaths did they even ask for a death certificate. Nor does he tell his listeners the reason stated in the report why they didn't ask (fear that they would be hurt by those they asked).

And reading that transcript, you will notice that he doesn' t mention the fact that such organizations as WHO and the UN (hardly Bush advocate's) published pre-war mortality rates (a VERY important number in arriving at the estimated number of excess deaths) that were significantly different from what his study found. In fact, his report neither noted or attempted to explain why it's pre-war mortality estimate was so markedly different. The John Hopkin's researchers in the first report said 5 per 1000 per year. Well it turns out that the UN and WHO, in very large studies conducted before the invasion, said 7-8 per 1000 per year. By the way, the Lancet had previously blessed those WHO and UN estimates as correct ... perhaps because at the time doing THAT was hurt the US governments image.

Now there are many more criticisms one can make about that first report. But let's move on to the second report ... the one claiming 655,000 excess deaths. That one has all the defects mentions above plus others.

For example, the second report claims that 92% of those interviewed in their study who claimed deaths in their families (of any kind) since the beginning of the war were able to provide death certificates to prove it when asked. So if the John Hopkin's study methodology is statistically valid, one would expect death certificates from about 92% of 655,000 deaths should be available if someone goes looking for them. That is over 600,000 death certificates. Of the total number of deaths claimed, the John Hopkins report said "601,027 were due to violent causes. Non-violent deaths rose above the pre-invasion level only in 2006." So according to John Hopkin's, most of the death certificates should relate to violent causes.

Now as far as I know, death certificates in Iraq are only issued by the hospitals and morgues. This is what the LATimes (not a friend of Bush or the war) seemed to indicate in June of 2006 when they reported (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-deathtoll25jun25,0,4970736.story?coll=la-home-headlines) that they made a comprehensive search for death certificates throughout Iraq. And you know what they found? Less than 50,000.

Here's what they reported. "The Times attempted to reach a comprehensive figure by obtaining statistics from the Baghdad morgue and the Health Ministry and checking those numbers against a sampling of local health departments for possible undercounts." The article went on to say "the Health Ministry gathers numbers from hospitals in the capital and the outlying provinces. If a victim of violence dies at a hospital or arrives dead, medical officials issue a death certificate. Relatives claim the body directly from the hospital and arrange for a speedy burial in keeping with Muslim beliefs. If the morgue receives a body — usually those deemed suspicious deaths — officials there issue the death certificate. Health Ministry officials said that because death certificates are issued and counted separately, the two data sets are not overlapping. The Baghdad morgue received 30,204 bodies from 2003 through mid-2006, while the Health Ministry said it had documented 18,933 deaths from "military clashes" and "terrorist attacks" from April 5, 2004, to June 1, 2006. Together, the toll reaches 49,137."

So here's the question. Where are the missing death certificates? About 500,000, if one subtracts out the non-violent deaths. For that matter, where are the missing bodies? Where is ANY hard proof (photographic, video, eyewitness reports by journalists, ANYTHING) to prove over 600,000 people have died from violent causes as claimed?

I'll tell you. Such proof doesn't exist because the John Hopkin's studies are BOGUS. It's the result of a group of researchers (some of whom have admitted they disliked Bush and the War) who hired people in Iraq (who they described as HATING Americans) to gather the data.

I think this reviewer of Robert's study (From http://www.windsofchange.net/archives/006694.php) summed it up best: "In contrast to the amiable persona Roberts projected to his sympathetic Chronicle interviewer, Roberts comes across here as committed to exposing the American government's moral culpability in invading Iraq. More than that, Roberts' contention that Americans are passionately hated by the Iraqis he met and worked with ought to raise a red flag. It was those same Iraqis, acting as interviewers and team managers, who recorded and conveyed the surveyed families' impressions of the identities of those who killed their close relatives."

The results are tainted because they were reviewed and published in a journal that not only lied about the first study (claiming it showed 100,000 CIVILIANS died in the first 18 months of the war) but whose editors admit they fast tracked the peer review process so that it could be published before an election and negatively affect the outcome against Bush and the GOP. The methodology was tainted by expecting the sunnis who bore the brunt of the invasion and who hate Americans (because we freed the rest of Iraq from their tyranny) to tell the truth about casualties. And the study is still being tainted by proponents who willfully hide all these facts every time they cite the numbers in order to promote their agenda.

In summary, I'd be very cautious about citing Les Roberts or the Lancet results to prove anything. You might end up only embarrassing yourself.

How the Lancet Cooked the Numbers

Exaggeration won't save Iraqis: The new claims about the civilian death toll in Iraq are vastly overstated"

Another bogus body count from those who brought us the last bogus body count!

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-02-14   21:06:35 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: BeAChooser, ALL (#3)

Where are the missing death certificates? About 500,000, if one subtracts out the non-violent deaths. For that matter, where are the missing bodies? Where is ANY hard proof (photographic, video, eyewitness reports by journalists, ANYTHING) to prove over 600,000 people have died from violent causes as claimed?

You have made me feel so much better. You have performed a public service, for which every American should feel grateful. The burden of 650G innocent Iraqi deaths has been lifted from our shoulders, to be replaced with the burden of only 50G or 60G innocent civilian deaths. It no longer matters that Bush launched an elective war of aggression, in the absence of any imminent critical threat to our national security. It no longer matters that Iraq had never attacked us and was not about to do so. It no longer matters that W's henchmen cooked the NIE to justify an illegal war. None of that metters, because 50G deaths don't count.

leveller  posted on  2007-02-15   12:00:57 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: leveller, all (#4)

You have made me feel so much better. You have performed a public service, for which every American should feel grateful. The burden of 650G innocent Iraqi deaths has been lifted from our shoulders, to be replaced with the burden of only 50G or 60G innocent civilian deaths. It no longer matters that Bush launched an elective war of aggression, in the absence of any imminent critical threat to our national security. It no longer matters that Iraq had never attacked us and was not about to do so. It no longer matters that W's henchmen cooked the NIE to justify an illegal war. None of that metters, because 50G deaths don't count.

First of all, you haven't proven the 50,000 were innocent civilians.

Second, would you be as upset if only 10 "innocent" deaths had resulted from toppling Saddam and making sure Iraq couldn't be used with as a terrorists safe haven? At what number would you draw the line between doing that being a good thing versus a bad thing?

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-02-15   14:00:23 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: BeAChooser, bluedogtxn, Burkeman1, scrapper2 who is scrapper1? (#8)

First of all, you haven't proven the 50,000 were innocent civilians.

Second, would you be as upset if only 10 "innocent" deaths had resulted from toppling Saddam and making sure Iraq couldn't be used with as a terrorists safe haven? At what number would you draw the line between doing that being a good thing versus a bad thing?

Thank you for correcting me. There actually is no proof that those 50,000 dead civilians were innocent! Without you, BAC, to light the way, I might fall into the same trap as others, and assume that the burden rests upon the aggressor to prove the guilt of his victims. With your guidance, I am ready to adopt the much more convenient position that the burden is upon the dead to prove their innocence! Otherwise, what sense would it make to say, "Shoot first and ask questions later"? Why have such a motto if we cannot use it? If we are to defend this empire --oops, this Extended Homeland -- we cannot afford to wait until the smoking gun is a mushroom soup. It's 1938 all over again, and we cannot afford to repeat the mistakes of Wilt Chamberlain.

If you've forgotten where the number 50G came from, I will render you this much assistance. The first source that you cited in your post #3 above stated the following:

"To compare this with other studies – the group Iraq Body Count only claims 49,000 civilian deaths, the Brookings Institution reports 62,000, and the Los Angeles Times has reported 50,000 civilian deaths since the liberation of Iraq."

Silly me for assuming they were innocent.

leveller  posted on  2007-02-15   14:35:31 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: leveller, ALL (#21)

It's 1938 all over again, and we cannot afford to repeat the mistakes of Wilt Chamberlain.

ROTFLOL! That was Neville not Wilt.

"To compare this with other studies – the group Iraq Body Count only claims 49,000 civilian deaths, the Brookings Institution reports 62,000, and the Los Angeles Times has reported 50,000 civilian deaths since the liberation of Iraq."

Show us from those sources how they determined those who died were civilians? Because they weren't wearing a uniform? And in the case of those who were innocent civilians, let's not forget who it was who actually killed them.

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-02-15   19:20:33 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: BeAChooser (#46)

The first source that you cited in your post #3 above stated the following:

"To compare this with other studies – the group Iraq Body Count only claims 49,000 civilian deaths, the Brookings Institution reports 62,000, and the Los Angeles Times has reported 50,000 civilian deaths since the liberation of Iraq."

Show us from those sources how they determined those who died were civilians? Because they weren't wearing a uniform? And in the case of those who were innocent civilians, let's not forget who it was who actually killed them.

You doubt our own source? After pointing me to the url, are you now demanding that I prove the accuracy of the source that you cited? Must I carry on both sides of the argument? If so, I want a cut of your RNC paycheck.

leveller  posted on  2007-02-15   19:29:24 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: leveller, ALL (#48)

You doubt our own source?

No. The source I posted simply states that IRC "CLAIMS" 49,000 civilian deaths, BI "REPORTS" 62,000 and the LATIMES "REPORTED" 50,000 civilian deaths.

That's doesn't mean the author of the article I posted believes those numbers either. Which is why I asked you to supply the basis for each saying those were all civilians who were killed. Is that hard to understand?

But at least you aren't trying to defend the 655,000 number any longer. So perhaps we can conclude that I am right in questioning the accuracy of this thread's article, "Iraq's death toll is far worse than our leaders admit".

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-02-15   20:04:36 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: BeAChooser (#50)

So perhaps we can conclude that I am right in questioning the accuracy of this thread's article, "Iraq's death toll is far worse than our leaders admit".

Is it your position that no civilians have been killed in Iraq? Or is it your position that those killed have not been innocent? Or is is your position that "our leaders" have pegged the Iraqi death toll with accuracy?

leveller  posted on  2007-02-15   20:32:35 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: leveller, ALL (#56)

Is it your position that no civilians have been killed in Iraq?

Of course not. Why would you make such a ridiculous assertion?

Or is it your position that those killed have not been innocent?

Or course not. Why would you make such a ridiculous assertion?

Or is is your position that "our leaders" have pegged the Iraqi death toll with accuracy?

Of course not. However, the Lancet number is just as ridiculous as the above assertions by you.

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-02-15   21:00:40 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: BeAChooser (#62)

the Lancet number is just as ridiculous as the above assertions

Then what estimates do you find to be reliable?

leveller  posted on  2007-02-15   21:04:53 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#66. To: leveller, BeAChooser (#64)

Then what estimates do you find to be reliable?

He's not going to offer any alternatives. All he has is that it's less than Saddam was killing. You watch. It's absurd but that's where it's heading.

SmokinOPs  posted on  2007-02-15   21:07:42 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#70. To: SmokinOPs (#66)

He's not going to offer any alternatives. All he has is that it's less than Saddam was killing. You watch. It's absurd but that's where it's heading.

Don't scare him off. He's earning overtime.

leveller  posted on  2007-02-15   21:13:33 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 70.

#72. To: leveller, BeAChooser (#70)

Don't scare him off. He's earning overtime.

That's why he's going to answer your question with a question.

SmokinOPs  posted on  2007-02-15 21:18:03 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 70.

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