[Home]  [Headlines]  [Latest Articles]  [Latest Comments]  [Post]  [Sign-in]  [Mail]  [Setup]  [Help] 

Status: Not Logged In; Sign In

The Media Flips Over Tulsi & Matt Gaetz, Biden & Trump Take A Pic, & Famous People Leave Twitter!

4 arrested in California car insurance scam: 'Clearly a human in a bear suit'

Silk Road Founder Trusts Trump To 'Honor His Pledge' For Commutation

"You DESERVED to LOSE the Senate, the House, and the Presidency!" - Jordan Peterson

"Grand Political Theatre"; FBI Raids Home Of Polymarket CEO; Seize Phone, Electronics

Schoolhouse Limbo: How Low Will Educators Go To Better Grades?

BREAKING: U.S. Army Officers Made a Desperate Attempt To Break Out of The Encirclement in KURSK

Trumps team drawing up list of Pentagon officers to fire, sources say

Israeli Military Planning To Stay in Gaza Through 2025

Hezbollah attacks Israeli army's Tel Aviv HQ twice in one day

People Can't Stop Talking About Elon's Secret Plan For MSNBC And CNN Is Totally Panicking

Tucker Carlson UNLOADS on Diddy, Kamala, Walz, Kimmel, Rich Girls, Conspiracy Theories, and the CIA!

"We have UFO technology that enables FREE ENERGY" Govt. Whistleblowers

They arrested this woman because her son did WHAT?

Parody Ad Features Company That Offers to Cryogenically Freeze Liberals for Duration of TrumpÂ’s Presidency

Elon and Vivek BEGIN Reforming Government, Media LOSES IT

Dear Border Czar: This Nonprofit Boasts A List Of 400 Companies That Employ Migrants

US Deficit Explodes: Blowout October Deficit Means 2nd Worst Start To US Fiscal Year On Record

Gaetz Resigns 'Effective Immediately' After Trump AG Pick; DC In Full Blown Panic

MAHA MEME

noone2222 and John Bolton sitting in a tree K I S S I N G

Donald Trump To Help Construct The Third Temple?

"The Elites Want To ROB Us of Our SOVEREIGNTY!" | Robert F Kennedy

Take Your Money OUT of THESE Banks NOW! - Jim Rickards

Trump Taps Tulsi Gabbard As Director Of National Intelligence

DC In Full Blown Panic After Trump Picks Matt Gaetz For Attorney General

Cleveland Clinic Warns Wave of Mass Deaths Will Wipe Out Covid-Vaxxed Within ‘5 Years’

Judah-ism is as Judah-ism does

Danger ahead: November 2024, Boston Dynamics introduces a fully autonomous "Atlas" robot. Robot humanoids are here.

Trump names [Fox News host] Pete Hegseth as his Defense secretary


Science/Tech
See other Science/Tech Articles

Title: 2 new genetic links predispose people to autism, large study shows
Source: CBC News
URL Source: http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2007/02/18/autism.html
Published: Feb 18, 2007
Author: CBC News
Post Date: 2007-02-19 02:45:44 by scrapper2
Keywords: autism, genetic links, DNA studied
Views: 448
Comments: 44

An international team of scientists including several Canadians has discovered genetic links that put children at greater risk of developing autism.

About 1,500 families offered DNA to scientists searching for a cause for autism spectrum disorder. The results appear in Sunday's issue of Nature Genetics.

Stephen Scherer of the Hospital for Sick Children in Toronto led the Canadian arm of the research, identifying two key genetic causes for autism.

"Now we can think about this condition in a much different way," said Scherer. "We have an understanding of what's going on in the developing brain in these individuals so we can think about ways to actually deal with this issue."

The work involved abnormalities in chromosomes, gene codes and proteins. Between seven to 12 per cent of the families showed individuals sharing possibly detrimental chromosome abnormalities.

A linkage analysis that searched for regions of the genome that might be shared by individuals with autism spectrum disorder turned up a region on chromosome 11 that has not previously been linked to risk of developing autism.

Autism affects one in 160 children. The complexity of the genetics helps explain why it is described as a spectrum, with no two children exactly alike. Environmental factors may also play a role, scientists say.

The Fenton family of Halifax is a case in point. Liam, 14, has Asperger's syndrome. He is able to do Grade 8 schoolwork but has problems relating to others. His 10-year-old brother, Rhys, has a more classic form of autism and has difficulties with language, learning and social interactions.

"We need to find out why," said their mother, Jo-Lynn Fenton. "Obviously, I have two children with autism, somebody has no children with autism, so there's a reason, and the best way to find out is to look at what's different."

The findings may help steer scientists toward new drugs and behavioural therapies tailored to specific children or groups of children, said Dr. Lonnie Zwaigenbaum, director of the Autism Research Centre in Edmonton.

"At some point it may be that this kind of genetic research identifies subgroups of children with autism where the response to intervention may actually somehow relate to the genetics."

New treatments are years away, but the findings may help parents come to terms with why their children are different, and help them to understand that the disorder is not due to something they did during pregnancy.

The study also underlines that if one child is born with autism, there is a greater likelihood their siblings will be, as well.

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  


TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest

Comments (1-4) not displayed.
      .
      .
      .

#5. To: lodwick, scrapper2 (#2) (Edited)

I agree, Big Pharma is throwing dust.

Victory means exit strategy, and it’s important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is. ~George W. Bush
(About the quote: Speaking on the war in Kosovo.)

robin  posted on  2007-02-19   12:05:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: intotheabyss, scrapper2, all (#4)

A ton of autism info here -

http://www.whale.to/v/autism4.html

Dr.Ron Paul for President

Lod  posted on  2007-02-19   12:10:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: intotheabyss (#4)

Autism disorders tend to run in families; if one identical twin has an ASD, there is a 65- to 92-per-cent chance the other will also develop the disorder. Doctors also see subtle forms of autism in parents that may not have been diagnosed.

Using new genome scanning tools, researchers have found that several different autism-related genes can play a role in different families. This helps to explain why no two children - not even identical twins - have identical symptoms.

The researchers have pinpointed at least five areas of the genome that harbour genes linked to autism susceptibility, including those crucial for brain function. They have also found a genetic mutation tied to the disorder in girls - who are four times less likely than boys to develop autism disorders.

Boys are 4 times more likely to suffer from an autism disorder than girls. Autism runs in families. No 2 autistic cases have the identical symptoms.

If vaccinations were the cause of autism, you would have more uniformity in symptoms and gender rates of acquiring autism would be similar and also the rates of autism would have increased/correlated with the years when more vaccinations were gov't mandated. I've never seen any evidence of this.

I'd agree with those who worry that there are too many vaccinations mandated by gov't for the very young but on the other hand I don't see the wisdom of some purists who say vaccinations are an un-necessary evil. It's no fun if your kid comes down with polio or small pox.

scrapper2  posted on  2007-02-19   12:21:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: scrapper2, lodwick (#7)

Certain batches of vaccine have been reported to have more mercury (preservative) than others.

A doctor in L.A. is having good luck helping autistic children with a process that helps rid the body of mercury. It was on MSM, I think she's East Indian.

Which reminds me, I haven't had any cilantro in a few days.

http://www.mercola.com/article/mercury/mercury_elimination.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Geier#Clinical_studies_on_the_role_of_mercury_and_androgens_in_autism

Clinical studies on the role of mercury and androgens in autism

Geier has also published studies which indicate children diagnosed with autism excrete more mercury upon chelation than control subjects.[citation needed] Many of these children are reported as having tests showing amounts of mercury excreted several times the normal levels.[citation needed] Chelation therapy is conventionally used only to treat heavy metal poisoning, and carries the risk of overly reducing the levels of beneficial metals in the body, such as calcium.[citation needed] In 2006, the Geiers published in Hormone Research[4] data suggesting a cyclical interaction between the methionine cycle-transsulfuration and androgen pathways in children with autistic disorders.

Mark Geier and David Geier have filed two U.S. patent applications on the use of the drug Lupron in combination with chelation therapy as a treatment protocol for autism based on the hypothesis that "testosterone mercury" along with low levels of glutathione blocks the conversion of DHEA to DHEA-S and therefore raises androgens which in turn further lower glutathione levels. The thought is that this ultimately provides a connection between autism, mercury exposure, and hyperandrogenicity, specifically precocious puberty.

[edit] An advocate for vaccine safety

Geier has supported efforts by Representatives Dave Weldon, MD, Dan Burton, and Carolyn Maloney, to pass legislation introduced in early 2005 to ban the use of mercury based preservatives (i.e., thimerosal) in vaccines in the United States. Although mercury preservatives have been removed or reduced from some vaccines in the US, several vaccines and most US influenza vaccines still contain the full dose of Thimerosal. Geier said in an interview that the link between thimerosal and autism was clear.

An NBC crew filmed a presentation by the Geiers before the network's Autism: The Hidden Epidemic?[4] series in February, 2005, but the producers chose not to use the material.

Victory means exit strategy, and it’s important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is. ~George W. Bush
(About the quote: Speaking on the war in Kosovo.)

robin  posted on  2007-02-19   12:27:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: scrapper2 (#3)

"Still, for 99 per cent of autism cases, we don't know the underlying genes," Dr. Scherer said.

DNA was analyzed - the results were not pulled out of a hat courtesy of pharma.

Fact is, you don't know where they came up with their results any more than we do.

There's an awful lot riding on disproving the vaccine causation.

"First they ignore you. Then they ridicule you. Then they fight you. Then you win." --Mahatma K. Gandhi

angle  posted on  2007-02-19   12:35:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: robin (#8)

Soon prospective parents will be able to be tested for the genetic link connected to increased risk for bearing autistic children. Would you consider such a test was "pharma dust" and that no one should bother taking it because it would have meaningless results?

scrapper2  posted on  2007-02-19   12:37:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: robin. everyone (#8)

Magnesium deficiency can also cause us all sorts of problems, I learned from the PowerHour...

Dr.Ron Paul for President

Lod  posted on  2007-02-19   12:38:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: scrapper2 (#0)

Liam, 14, has Asperger's syndrome. He is able to do Grade 8 schoolwork but has problems relating to others.

Maybe Liam is just a nerd.

The increased incidence of autism, particularly among whites (it is highest among them), as well as its geographic correlation (much, much stronger than vaccination) with "diversity", can both be largely explained by white breeding patterns. Whites are delaying childbirth in general, and both delay and have fewer kids in "diverse" areas.

"Nordics need not be vain about their own qualifications. It well behooves them to be humble. What we do claim is that the northern European, and particularly Anglo Saxons made this country. Oh yes, the others helped. But that is the full statement of the case. They came to this country because it was already made as an Anglo-Saxon commonwealth... they have not yet greatly changed it. We are determined that they shall not. It is a good country. It suits us. And what we assert is that we are not going to surrender it to somebody else or allow other people, no matter what their merits, to make it something different.” -- Congressman William N. Vaile

Tauzero  posted on  2007-02-19   12:41:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: scrapper2 (#7)

If vaccinations were the cause of autism, you would have more uniformity in symptoms and gender rates of acquiring autism would be similar and also the rates of autism would have increased/correlated with the years when more vaccinations were gov't mandated.

Assuming there's no interaction with sex chromosomes, or their expression at any stage of development.

"Nordics need not be vain about their own qualifications. It well behooves them to be humble. What we do claim is that the northern European, and particularly Anglo Saxons made this country. Oh yes, the others helped. But that is the full statement of the case. They came to this country because it was already made as an Anglo-Saxon commonwealth... they have not yet greatly changed it. We are determined that they shall not. It is a good country. It suits us. And what we assert is that we are not going to surrender it to somebody else or allow other people, no matter what their merits, to make it something different.” -- Congressman William N. Vaile

Tauzero  posted on  2007-02-19   12:47:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: angle (#9)

"Still, for 99 per cent of autism cases, we don't know the underlying genes," Dr. Scherer said.

Scientists have not mapped the entire genome series for this disease. That will come in the future no doubt.

The scientists never claimed that this was a definitive study - but the results are "promising" showing a genetic link.

http://www.medpageto day.com/Neurology/Autism/tb/5082

I don't know why there's so much grousing on this forum about a break through in science which may actually help potential parents who carry these gene abnormalities make informed decisions.

Just because this does not support the alternative medicine mindset, is this a valid reason to dismiss anything coming out of conventional research labs as part of a conspiracy of big pharma?? What help do the "it's all vaccinations fault" sector give to prospective parents to assist them to make informed decisions prior to giving birth to an autistic child? Oh I get it - just don't do any vaccinations and your autitistic child will grow out of it by age 6, well as long as he does not die of small pox before that time. Come on people, smell the coffee. Vaccinations have been around for a very long time and I don't have autism,you don't have autism. Were we just "lucky?"

Fyi...."The study was funded by the non-profit organization Autism Speaks and by the National Institutes of Health. The authors disclosed no financial conflicts."

scrapper2  posted on  2007-02-19   12:53:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: scrapper2 (#14)

The study was funded by the non-profit organization Autism Speaks

Bob Wright, chairman and CEO of NBC Universal, and his wife, Suzanne, joined this fight last fall when their grandson was diagnosed with autism. (MSNBC.COM is a joint venture of Microsoft and NBC Universal.)

The Wrights are launching a new organization, Autism Speaks, which will focus on research, treatment and education.

...In 2006, Autism Speaks has already awarded 62 research grants, totaling $6.8 million dollars

http://www.naar.org/research/ r esearch.asp

"Autism Speaks like every other Autism organization in the U.S. has in my opinion, written off the existing half a million children that are alive today with Autism. These groups are looking only to a 'possible' halt to the future children yet to be born, and/or drugs to push to the current sufferers. Are we suppose to say Thank You? No Thanks."

"First they ignore you. Then they ridicule you. Then they fight you. Then you win." --Mahatma K. Gandhi

angle  posted on  2007-02-19   15:55:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: scrapper2, Former Lurker, lodwick (#10)

If someone is concerned and wants to take this DNA test, then they should. It may be part of the answer, but I doubt it will be proven to be the whole answer. The sudden rise in autism cannot be fully accounted for by existing DNA in our population.

From all the evidence thus far presented (that I have read), I would say it is more worthwhile to avoid vaccinations with mercury, or altogether. At the very least know what to do about reducing the level of mercury in your child's body.

And if it is not the vaccinations, then it is more likely to be something else in our new, unhealthy environment, than something that's been in our DNA for millennia.

If you choose not to vaccinate, there are other risks, especially with the increase in 3rd worlders arriving without any sort of Ellis Island to filter out the contagious. The latest problem is Multi-Drug Resistant (MDR) TB.

Victory means exit strategy, and it’s important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is. ~George W. Bush
(About the quote: Speaking on the war in Kosovo.)

robin  posted on  2007-02-19   16:19:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: angle (#15)

"Autism Speaks like every other Autism organization in the U.S. has in my opinion, written off the existing half a million children that are alive today with Autism. These groups are looking only to a 'possible' halt to the future children yet to be born, and/or drugs to push to the current sufferers. Are we suppose to say Thank You? No Thanks."

Well, first off, the founders of Autism Speaks, Bob and Suzanne Wright, have a grandson diagnosed with autism, so it find it unlikely that they would fund an organization that "writes off" the existing half million children with autism.

Secondly, Autism Speaks is non-profit like the medical article states - it's not owned or funded by big pharma that I can see. It's mainly funded by individuals'donations and the ongoing philanthropy of very rich folks like Suzanne and Bob Wright.

Thirdly, if drugs are being researched/tested to give autistic children a chance at leading a quality life, how is that not a blessing? I have no thyroid and without my medication, which fyi I must take daily for life, I would not be alive today and it would not matter how much magnesium I added to my diet, I would die. So from my perspective - having been given a second chance at leading a healthy existence due to big pharma, I view the possibility of discovering medication for autism as a beneficial event, not an evil to be feared.

Fourthly,if a pre-natal test comes from Autism Speaks research and allows a couple to make informed choices about whether to have autism-disabled children ( maybe they will adopt instead?) or whether to terminate a pregnancy, how is that your or my business? We are not walking in those couples' shoes, we will not be helping them with the costs and stresses put on their marriage if they knowingly have an autistic child, so we have no right to sit in judgement of what choices these couples will make for their family's futures.

scrapper2  posted on  2007-02-19   16:25:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: scrapper2 (#14)

Vaccinations have been around for a very long time and I don't have autism,you don't have autism. Were we just "lucky?"

I believe that we are lucky to have received as few shots as we did, and not nearly so many at such an early age as they're giving today.

Dr.Ron Paul for President

Lod  posted on  2007-02-19   16:29:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: scrapper2 (#17)

Clearly, you missed the point of the writer's comments.

Do you have any close people with autism? I do.

My position is that I think that this research and the timing of its release should be scrutinized.

At this point, from my readings, autism has a statistical link with the mercury- laced vaccinations. I think this link should be aggresively "independently" researched as well. Could prevent a significant autism problem with the next generation, if linked and acted upon.

"First they ignore you. Then they ridicule you. Then they fight you. Then you win." --Mahatma K. Gandhi

angle  posted on  2007-02-19   16:36:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: lodwick (#18)

I believe that we are lucky to have received as few shots as we did, and not nearly so many at such an early age as they're giving today.

When I was a kid I got the DPT and that was it. I ended up with chicken pox, measles, all the kid diseases.

Now, newborns are given hepatitis shots. I would never allow it.

"We become what we behold. We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." -- Marshall McLuhan, after Alexander Pope and William Blake.

YertleTurtle  posted on  2007-02-19   16:37:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: lodwick (#18)

Vaccinations have been around for a very long time and I don't have autism,you don't have autism.

The thimerosol (mercury base) used in vaccines was not available in earlier vaccines.

"First they ignore you. Then they ridicule you. Then they fight you. Then you win." --Mahatma K. Gandhi

angle  posted on  2007-02-19   16:40:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: angle (#21)

The thimerosol (mercury base) used in vaccines was not available in earlier vaccines.

I didn't know that - when was that toxin/poison introduced into the mix?

Maybe about the time it was decided that fluoride in our water, toothpaste, etc was the way to go?

Dr.Ron Paul for President

Lod  posted on  2007-02-19   16:51:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: YertleTurtle. everyone here (#20)

When I was a kid I got the DPT and that was it. I ended up with chicken pox, measles, all the kid diseases.

Same here.

Some have suggested that we have become "too clean." And that we are gradually producing kids whose immune systems may not be as hardy as they were back in the day.

We can now "save" those who, back when, would have surely died in infancy.

Dr.Ron Paul for President

Lod  posted on  2007-02-19   16:56:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: lodwick (#23)

Some have suggested that we have become "too clean." And that we are gradually producing kids whose immune systems may not be as hardy as they were back in the day.

I survived all my childhood diseases just fine. Ate snow, played in dirt, swam in lakes and rivers.

Still here!

"We become what we behold. We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." -- Marshall McLuhan, after Alexander Pope and William Blake.

YertleTurtle  posted on  2007-02-19   17:04:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: angle, robin, lodwick, Yertle Turtle (#19) (Edited)

Clearly, you missed the point of the writer's comments.

Do you have any close people with autism? I do.

My position is that I think that this research and the timing of its release should be scrutinized.

At this point, from my readings, autism has a statistical link with the mercury- laced vaccinations. I think this link should be aggresively "independently" researched as well. Could prevent a significant autism problem with the next generation, if linked and acted upon.

Because you and I have differing opinions on the quote you posted does not mean I "missed" the writer's point.

No I don't know anyone with autism. But how does having "someone close with autism" give your opinions more gravitas than mine? Unless you are a physician or research scientist with medical expertise and advanced knowledge about this disease, we both speak from a layman's vantage point.

As for your readings that suggest a statistical link between autism and mercury laced vaccinations...perhaps you did not read about the following independent study done in Denmark that found no statistical link between autism and thermiserol vaccines. The study covered "All children between 2 and 10 years old who were diagnosed with autism during the period from 1971–2000."

***Fyi, Denmark stopped using thimerosal-containing vaccines in 1991.***

Yet, inexplicably " From 1991 until 2000 the incidence increased and continued to rise after the removal of thimerosal from vaccines, including increases among children born after the discontinuation of thimerosal."

http ://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/112/3/604

scrapper2  posted on  2007-02-19   17:10:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: scrapper2 (#25)

Yet, inexplicably " From 1991 until 2000 the incidence increased and continued to rise after the removal of thimerosal from vaccines, including increases among children born after the discontinuation of thimerosal."

Too late for me to read the abstract, but did the study note the sheer number of the vaccines, and the early age at which they were administered?

Has anyone mentioned the chemtrails, yet?

;-)

Dr.Ron Paul for President

Lod  posted on  2007-02-19   17:30:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: lodwick (#22)

http://www.mouthshut.com/readreview/21756-1.html

The number of children and young people who have developed autism has soared since the introduction of the MMR (mumps, measles, rubella) vaccine, a survey has shown. The figures from Britain and the US have exposed a massive increase in autism since 1988- the year the MMR vaccine was introduced.

What is in a Vaccine?

http://www.know-vaccines.org/faq.html

Phenol(carbolic acid) A deadly poison; a common disinfectant and dye.

Formaldehyde A known cancer-causing agent commonly used to embalm corpses.

Thimerosal(a mercury derivative) A toxic heavy metal that is not easily eliminated from the body; used as a preservative in vaccines. Can result in brain injury and autoimmune disease. In one study, Thimerosal was shown to be 4 to 6 times more toxic for human cells than for the staphylococci germs.

Alum A preservative.

Aluminum phosphate Toxic.

Aluminum & oil adjuvants Cancer-producing in laboratory mice; also associated with Alzheimer?s disease and seizures. Research findings strongly suggest that aluminum is neurotoxic. The main side effects of oil adjuvants have been hypersensitivity reactions, cysts and adjuvant arthritis.

Acetone A solvent used in fingernail polish remover.

Glycerin A tri-atomic alcohol extracted from natural fats which are putrefied and decomposed. Some toxic effects of glycerin are kidney, liver, lung damage, diuresis, pronounced local tissue damage, gastrointestinal damage and death.

Ethylene glycol Antifreeze.

Neomycin & Streptomycin Antibiotics; have caused allergic reactions.

Note: When cancer causing elements are found in foods, they are either banned or an obvious warning label appears on the packages. After few accidents, consumer goods are recalled, redesigned, or required to display warning labels (with good reason). There seems to be a double standard for vaccines, however. They hold "privileged status" when it comes to consumer confidence.

"First they ignore you. Then they ridicule you. Then they fight you. Then you win." --Mahatma K. Gandhi

angle  posted on  2007-02-19   17:39:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: scrapper2 (#25)

give your opinions more gravitas than mine

No, just gives mine more experience.

"First they ignore you. Then they ridicule you. Then they fight you. Then you win." --Mahatma K. Gandhi

angle  posted on  2007-02-19   17:40:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: angle (#28)

No, just gives mine more experience.

That is true but sometimes a personal connection to someone with a medical condition that has no straight forward answers can cause that person to view possibilities with myopic vision.

I am sorry for you to have someone close with autism. You must feel powerless to help. My cousin had a Down's Syndrome child. As I've said before all my family are devout Catholics ( except for me). My cousin would not consider amniocentesis even if she qualified for it because of course abortion is out of the question. Statistically she was too young to even have to worry about Down's but sometimes there is no explanation except that bad luck happens. Raising a mentally disabled child is very difficult for parents, possibly tougher on them than on the child affected by the condition.

Also I'm not an uncritical advocate for big pharma but my reasons for not liking big pharma are different from yours - I resent the fact that more new drugs to treat different diseases are not developed. Nowadays, big pharma just keeps re- inventing the wheel and narrowing their focus on tried and true money making diseases like depression, hypertension, and heart disease. There's been tons of variations of drugs to treat the same diseases over and over again and then we consumers are expected to pay "new research costs" for same old same old stuff that's been merely tweaked. Say what? How many new new new anti-depressents can we use in modern society?

Also, as I said from the start ( and I echo what was said by the autism researchers) this genetic link is not the end all and be all on the subject of autism by a long shot. I think the cause of autism might be multi-factoral, in which case it will be tough to ascertain all the causes all at once. But if scientists can narrow down some of the risk factors, including any genetic links, it would be very helpful.

scrapper2  posted on  2007-02-19   18:50:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: scrapper2 (#29)

Raising a mentally disabled child is very difficult for parents, possibly tougher on them than on the child affected by the condition.

Well, yes. The parents know the difference and the child knows nothing else.

Dr.Ron Paul for President

Lod  posted on  2007-02-19   21:33:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: scrapper2 (#7)

Wake up! and read the following.

The Age of Autism: The Amish Elephant

By DAN OLMSTED UPI Senior Editor

A specter is haunting the medical and journalism establishments of the United States: Where are the unvaccinated people with autism?

That is just about the only way to explain what now appears to be a collective resistance to considering that question. And like all unanswered questions, this raises another one: Why?

What is the problem with quickly and firmly establishing that the autism rate is about the same everywhere and for everybody in the United States, vaccinated or unvaccinated? Wouldn't that stop all the scientifically illiterate chatter by parents who believe vaccinations made their children autistic? Wouldn't it put to rest concerns that -- despite the removal of a mercury-containing preservative in most U.S. vaccines -- hundreds of millions of children in the developing world are possibly at risk if that preservative is in fact linked to autism?

Calling this issue The Amish Elephant reflects reporting earlier this year in Age of Autism that the largely unvaccinated Amish may have a relatively low rate of autism. That apparent dissimilarity is, in effect, a proverbial elephant in the living room -- studiously ignored by people who don't want to deal with it and don't believe they will have to.

Here are a few cases in point.

Earlier this month the National Consumers League conference in Washington held a session on communicating issues around vaccine safety. I was on the panel and talked about the Amish and autism. In the Q&A session that followed, the first question was for me.

"Is this a proper role for a journalist, or is this just a straw dog set up there with a preliminary answer? It not only showed up where you wrote it. It was all over the place. You did very, very well for UPI (at which point I said, 'Thank you -- please tell my bosses that!') but the question is, did you do very, very well for America?

"Is it appropriate for a journalist -- you weren't reporting, you were investigating. And I just wonder if you think it's an appropriate role for you to play."

My answer: "There's different roles for the press. That's certainly a reasonable question. That is investigative reporting. This idea is something that's already been discarded -- that there's any reason why you would want to look in an unvaccinated population.

"One of my favorite comments about journalism is that it's the wild card of American democracy. The First Amendment says we can do (in the sense of reporting about) whatever we want. So one of our privileges is to get an idea in our head and go look at it."

My questioner was not finished. "I wasn't questioning whether you have a First Amendment right to do it. I think this is more of a question of the ethics, of what value we are bringing to the debate."

My response: "That's probably not a good one for me to answer. Obviously I thought it was ethical."

At that point a fellow panelist, Dr. Louis Cooper, former president of the American Academy of Pediatrics and a staunch vaccine defender, spoke up. "I would jump in and say I thought it was ethical and I think it was useful," said Cooper, a courtly and unfailingly courteous Manhattan pediatrician.

"As you've learned, it was annoying to many people. I wasn't annoyed by it because I thought you kept the process and the debate and the discussion going forward. And we have to do that for one another."

That did not end the discussion. A few minutes later a public-health professor from -- where else? Harvard -- did her own version of Jeopardy!, offering the correct "answer" in the form of a question.

"This question is for Dan. Did you mention the outbreak of polio that happened in the Amish community in the Netherlands that caused widespread problems there, and also the fact that there'd been some context with respect to history in our country in trying to reach out to the Amish to actually encourage them to try to benefit from some of the vaccine technology to the extent that we could?

"So there's been a long history in this country of the CDC trying to reach out to them to the extent that they could. Also with respect to polio, I think what's really amazing is it's such a great story, this is such an exciting time, in the sense that we are very close to global eradication. What that means is we've gone from 1988 when we had 350,000 estimated paralytic polio cases in the world every year to roughly a thousand. It's very exciting that in fact we don't have the terror or the hysteria and all of the fear that surrounded disease.

"I just want to remind everyone that one thing that's very important in the context of reporting these stories is making sure that people do remember and also realize with infectious disease is these things can come back, and until they are eradicated they can come back and devastate us just as much as they did before, except now there are a lot more people.

"There's some related news that people might find interesting. A headline in the Washington Post today, 'Polio outbreak occurs among Amish families.' So I thought people might be interested in that."

At that point the moderator, Dr. Roger Bernier of the Centers for Disease Control, said time was getting short -- why was I not surprised? -- and asked for the next "question."

One thing I've noticed is the more that people want to lecture instead of learn, the more they speak in breathless run-on sentences that are hard to stop, slow down or even diagram. They leave one with the unspoken idea that dialogue -- opening the door to new information -- is somehow dangerous.

These exchanges reminded me of the response I got from Dr. Julie Gerberding, the CDC director, when I asked her this summer, verbatim: "Has the government ever looked at the autism rate in an unvaccinated U.S. population, and if not, why not?"

Her answer, verbatim:

--

In this country, we have very high levels of vaccination as you probably know, and I think this year we have record immunization levels among all of our children, so to (select an unvaccinated group) that on a population basis would be representative to look at incidence in that population compared to the other population would be something that could be done.

But as we're learning, just trying to look at autism in a community the size of Atlanta, it's very, very difficult to get an effective numerator and denominator to get a reliable diagnosis.

I think those kind of studies could be done and should be done. You'd have to adjust for the strong genetic component that also distinguishes, for example, people in Amish communities who may elect not to be immunized (and) also have genetic connectivity that would make them different from populations that are in other sectors of the United States. So drawing some conclusions from them would be very difficult.

I think with reference to the timing of all of this, good science does take time, and it's part of one of the messages I feel like I've learned from the feedback that we've gotten from parents groups this summer (in) struggling with developing a more robust and a faster research agenda, is let's speed this up. Let's look for the early studies that could give us at least some hypotheses to test and evaluate and get information flowing through the research pipeline as quickly as we can.

So we are committed to doing that, and as I mentioned, in terms of just measuring the frequency of autism in the population some pretty big steps have been taken. We're careful not to jump ahead of our data, but we think we will be able to provide more accurate information in the next year or so than we've been able to do up to this point. And I know that is our responsibility.

We've also benefited from some increased investments in these areas that have allowed us to do this, and so we thank Congress and we thank the administration for supporting those investments, not just at CDC but also at NIH and FDA.

--

The latest response to my pesky persistence comes not from academia or government but from my own profession. Last week the prestigious Columbia Journalism Review published an article whose main thrust -- with which I concur -- was that a vigorous debate over a possible link between vaccines and autism was being thwarted by the self-induced timidity of the press.

Some reporters told the author, Daniel Schulman, that they have basically given up on the story because the criticism -- some of it from their own editors -- was so fierce, and the story was so complicated.

Schulman described Age of Autism's efforts to come at the issue "sideways," looking for possible clues to the cause of the disorder in the natural history of autism. And he mentioned our reporting on the Amish:

"Privately, two reporters told me that, while intriguing, Olmsted's reporting on the Amish is misguided, since it may simply reflect genetic differences among an isolated gene pool. ... Both reporters believed that Olmsted has made up his mind on the question and is reporting the facts that support his conclusions."

Ouch. Being slammed by one's peers is never enjoyable, although reporters need to have thick skins and realize they dish this kind of thing out every day. (And those anonymous sources really are annoying, especially when I am happy to be quoted by name about everything.)

What's interesting about the reporters' "private" remarks is the degree of presumed expertise they suggest -- that looking at the Amish is misguided "since it may simply reflect genetic differences among an isolated gene pool." Really? Where did these guys get their doctorate in genetics, Harvard?

This assertion -- that the Amish gene pool could explain everything, based on no data that I'm aware of -- is the kind of self-interested speculation masquerading as expertise that has beset the autism-vaccines discussion for far too long. The term I learned for it long ago is "convenient reasoning," and it does not always have to be conscious.

The Amish have all kinds of standard genetic mental and developmental disorders -- from bipolar to retardation -- and a lot more genetic issues to boot from this supposedly protective "isolated gene pool." The doctors who actually know something about the Amish have never suggested to me that genes have anything to do with a low rate of autism. They seem perplexed.

In upcoming columns, we'll put that question to the right people -- geneticists -- and tell you what we find. It's called reporting.

intotheabyss  posted on  2007-02-20   11:27:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: scrapper2 (#29)

The Age of Autism: Mercury and the Amish -

By Dan Olmsted --UNITED PRESS INTERNATIONAL submitted by Stacey Groder

Washington, DC, May. 20 (UPI) -- The cases of autism among the Amish that I've identified over the past several weeks appear to have at least one link -- a link made of mercury. That's not something I expected to encounter. I had been looking for an unvaccinated population to test the controversial idea that vaccines, and in particular the mercury-based preservative called thimerosal, could be behind the apparent rise in autism cases over the past decade. The concept: If the Amish have little or no autism, it might point a finger at something to which they have not been exposed. Most of the medical establishment, it must be stated upfront, considers the idea that thimerosal could have played a role in the rise of autism disproven and dangerous. As noted in the last column, however, the director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says she has "an open mind" about that possibility.

So do I, having come across correlations that made me want to look more closely at thimerosal. For instance, the first child diagnosed with autism in the United States was born in 1931, the same year thimerosal was first used in a vaccine. And autism diagnoses exploded in the 1990s, the same decade children got an increasing number of thimerosal-containing vaccines (it was phased out starting in 1999). Tantalizing, but proof of nothing.

So I turned to the 22,000 Amish in Lancaster County, Pa. I didn't expect to find many, if any, vaccinated Amish: they have a religious exemption from the otherwise mandatory U.S. vaccination schedule. When German measles broke out among Amish in Pennsylvania in 1991, the CDC reported that just one of 51 pregnant women they studied had ever been vaccinated against it.

To cut to the chase, what I've found to date is very little evidence of autism among the Amish in Lancaster County, far below the 1 in 166 rate of Autism Spectrum Disorders the CDC cites for children born in the United States today. I don't discount the idea that they might be more difficult to find or diagnose, and I'm still looking.

intotheabyss  posted on  2007-02-20   11:34:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: intotheabyss (#32)

Where are the unvaccinated people with autism?

I'm afraid that's too easy.

"First they ignore you. Then they ridicule you. Then they fight you. Then you win." --Mahatma K. Gandhi

angle  posted on  2007-02-20   11:40:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: intotheabyss, lodwick (#32)

For instance, the first child diagnosed with autism in the United States was born in 1931, the same year thimerosal was first used in a vaccine. And autism diagnoses exploded in the 1990s, the same decade children got an increasing number of thimerosal-containing vaccines (it was phased out starting in 1999).

Very interesting.

"First they ignore you. Then they ridicule you. Then they fight you. Then you win." --Mahatma K. Gandhi

angle  posted on  2007-02-20   11:42:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: angle (#33)

I'm afraid that's too easy.

An article by Russell L. Blaylock, M.D.(Neurosurgeon)

Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics About Mercury, Part 1

[ Part 1, Part 2 ] References Next >>

Dr. Mercola's Comment:

Last fall, contributing editor Dr. Russell Blaylock penned a stunning, multi- part series on the results of a secret meeting between the CDC and scientists in 2000 to discuss, debate and ultimately defend the use of thimerosal in vaccines.

In a follow-up, Dr. Blaylock reviews a new report that sanitizes the use of mercury in dental amalgams, based on disregarding information on a whim that doesn’t fit a predetermined solution and “creating” experts expressly to build a case for a deadly element to which no one in his or her right mind would want to be exposed.

I urge you to review the various research and papers I have posted on my site regarding the issue, particularly if you are experiencing any of these symptoms:

Fatigue Irritability Feeling “foggy-headed”

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Recently, I reported on the methodology and machinations involved in vaccine- related injury cover-ups by the top researchers in science and government at the Simpsonwood Conference on Thimerosal in vaccines.

Just as the smoke has cleared, however, a brand new scandal has recently come to light concerning the safety of mercury contained in dental amalgams, which is of equal magnitude and again shows the modus operandi of the government/elitist scientists’ coalition. The official name of the report is “Dental Amalgam: A Scientific Review and Recommended Public Health Service Strategy for Research, Education and Regulation.”

This report is described as the Trans-agency Working Group on the Health Effects of Dental Amalgam, which included representatives of the National Institutes of Health, the Center for Devices and Radiological Health of the FDA, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the Office of the Chief Dental Officer of the Public Health Service.

These organizations requested the Life Sciences Research Office (LSRO) as a subcontractor of BETAH Associates undertake an independent third-party review of the topic. BETAH received the contract from the Department of Health and Human Services without bidding, as is proscribed by law. To carry out this mandate, they were asked to consider peer-reviewed, primary scientific and medical literature published between 1996-2003 addressing this specific question.

Thus begins a lesson in how to cover-up a major health disaster using scientific, “evidence-based” methods meant to impress the media and public at large. (In this review, I will consider only the Executive Summary, which was written for the media and the lay public.)

Overwhelm Them with Your Credentials

Students of this methodology will always be impressed by the length the designers of these “independent studies” will go to convince the public and, particularly, the media they have assembled the world’s greatest experts to study the matter in question. As we saw in the case of the Simpsonwood Vaccine Study, they assembled similar “experts” to study the effects of mercury in vaccines, only to find out their experts were not so expert after all and that many of the true experts were not invited.

In the Executive Summary, they list the types of experts collected for this “independent study.” Invited were experts in the fields of immunotoxicology, immunology, allergy, neurobehavioral toxicology, neurodevelopment, pediatrics, developmental and reproductive toxicology; toxicokinetics and modeling; epidemiology; pathology; and general toxicology, all very impressive titles. Yet, most critical in all these specialties is their expertise in the area of mercury toxicology, pathology and developmental pathology. Or, perhaps, a lack of it...

You can be a world expert in immunology and not know a single thing about mercury toxicity, especially on neuronal and neuroglial systems. It is interesting to note, in the Executive Summary they state, “No member of the Expert Panel expressed a public opinion regarding the potential adverse effects of dental amalgam prior to or during the review period.”

While this might imply impartiality, it can also indicate a lack of expertise in the area of mercury and its pathophysiological effects. One would think that, if you were truly an expert in the field, sometime along the line you would have expressed an opinion publicly either on its safety or its danger. Even so, I will accept this as an expression of impartiality since the names and institutions of the review panel are not disclosed in the Executive Summary.

Now let’s look at some of the deceptive tactics these studies use.

Control the Information

As stated, the literature review was limited between January 1, 1996 and December 2003. Immediately, one has to ask the most obvious question: Why were the dates of the literature limited?

In fact, a number of very important studies concerning the immunological, as well as other addressed, effects of mercury appeared just before the beginning date. For example, Queiroz and Perlingeiro published a study in 1994 on the immunologic effects of inorganic mercury (the same kind found in dental amalgam) in workers exposed to mercury. 1 At least a half-dozen similar studies on both animals and humans were eliminated by this date-limitation method.

Similarly, a significant number of studies were excluded that concerned the effects of mercury on the brain. This was not only done by using an exclusionary dating limit, but also by severely restricting the types of studies that would be accepted. Out of some 961 studies found within these dates, more than two-thirds were excluded.

Dr. Boyd Halley’s studies were excluded, even though he has conducted some of the most important research on the biochemical effects of inorganic mercury, specifically from dental amalgams. His results have never been refuted.

In addition, Dr. Halley has proven, beyond any challenge, that mercury vapor is released from dental amalgam fillings in large concentrations, even in fillings more than 20 years old. Also, he has proven that mercury -- even in very low- concentrations -- can produce the very same pathological change seen in Alzheimer’s disease (neurofibrillary tangles). 2

It is interesting the “expert panel” excluded studies on organic mercury, citing the difference in toxicokinetics as the reason. They point out that they failed to find quantifiable amounts of inorganic mercury being converted to methylmercury in the body, which is strange since Charleston and Body reported the conversion of methylmercury to inorganic mercury within the brain’s microglial cells. 3 This study was reported in the 1996 issue of Neurotoxicology, an issue that should have been included in the study’s time frame.

What this means: Inorganic mercury can produce the very same damage in brain cells as methylmercury, which totally refutes their assertion. Likewise, other studies have shown (in 1995) that a portion of the inorganic mercury in dental amalgam is converted into methylmercury in the tissues of the mouth.

Another tactic was to exclude all studies in which mercury body burdens were measured by means other than urine mercury levels, This excluded all studies using saliva, hair and nail clippings, all of which have shown to be reliable. By doing so, they were able to exclude a major smoking gun. That is, research showing a baby’s hair mercury level correlated with the number of dental amalgam fillings in the mother.

Imply Unsupported “Facts”

Throughout this report, the authors imply that only chewing nicotine gum significantly increases mercury vapor release in the mouth. The purpose of this is to remove any concerns by those who chew ordinary gum. In fact, a number of studies have shown blood levels and oral levels of mercury are substantially increased by chewing ordinary gum and even a piece of rubber tubing. Hot liquids or foods also have been proven to substantially raise oral mercury vapor levels as well as blood levels.

Another example is their insistence that there are insufficient studies to indicate a correlation between mercury exposure from dental amalgams and human disease, especially autoimmunity. While recognizing allergic hypersensitivity in some individuals, they insist it is rare. A recent study completed just after their literature 2003 cut-off period, states patients with certain autoimmune diseases such as lupus, multiple sclerosis, autoimmune thyroiditis and allergic disease “often show increased lymphocyte stimulation by low doses of inorganic mercury in vitro.” 4

In their study, they removed amalgams from a group of 35 patients with autoimmune diseases and replaced them with composites. When examined six months later, 71 percent had shown an improvement in health, with the greatest improvement in those with multiple sclerosis. Their conclusion: “Mercury- containing amalgam may be an important risk factor for patients with autoimmune diseases.”

A similarly glaring manipulation of reality occurred when the writers of the Executive Summary stated the following:

In total, these studies failed to support the hypothesis that Hg0 (mercury vapor) exposure, at the levels released by dental amalgam interferes with human neuropsychological function or acts as an etiological factor for the neurodegenerative diseases-Parkinson’s disease and Alzheimer’s disease.

This is a total lie based on cleverly worded distortions of study conclusions and the elimination of studies that really show a strong correlation.

In fact, a 1998 study by the prestigious Battelle Centers for Public Health Research found that mercury levels commonly seen among dental professionals with very low levels of mercury vapor exposure, demonstrated alterations in mood, motor function and cognition (thinking). 5 These, they emphasized, were symptoms that can be subtle and missed by conventional neuropsychological testing. These results have been confirmed by a number of other independent laboratories and reported in peer-reviewed journals.

As for the scientific connection to neurodegenerative disorders, a number of such studies abound in the literature. One of the most impressive lines of evidence is one pursued by Pendergrass and Haley in a 1997 study published in the journal Neurotoxicology.

In their study, they showed concentrations of mercury vapor, known to be released by dental amalgams in people, increased mercury concentrations in rat brains from 11- to 47-fold higher than controls. At this level, the mercury produced the identical lesions seen in Alzheimer’s disease (neurofibrillary tangles) by interfering with normal tubulin maintenance.

A second mechanism of producing neurodegenerative diseases is even more impressive, called excitotoxicity. Excitotoxicity, a mechanism by which excess glutamate accumulates outside the neuron, thereby leading to death of the cell by an excitation process, has been linked to mercury neurotoxicity as early as 1993. 6 More recent studies have confirmed this mechanism and clearly demonstrate, even in concentrations below that known to cause cell injury, mercury can paralyze the glutamate removal mechanism, leading to significant damage to synapses, dendrites and neurons themselves.

This glutamate removal mechanism is critical to brain protection. Additionally, mercury in very low concentrations increases glutamate release, primarily by stimulating the brain’s immune cell, the microglia. Chronic microglial activation, as seen with mercury exposure, has been solidly linked to all of the neurodegenerative diseases.

At least two studies have shown that mercury increases the toxicity of glutamate. 7,8 Interestingly, excess glutamate can also produce the same neurofibrillary tangles seen with mercury exposure.

In essence, we have the mechanism by which these diseases are produced by mercury vapor and know that it can occur in concentrations commonly found in people having dental amalgam fillings. The reason even more people are not devastated by these diseases: A number of nutritional and genetic factors offer substantial protection. For example, selenium has been shown to significantly lower brain mercury levels and reduce its toxicity.

intotheabyss  posted on  2007-02-20   11:48:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: lodwick (#26)

I find it amazing that the rates of autism prior to thermisol were very low then we get these vaccines with thermisol and a huge increase in autism.

Did the human genome change in the last 50 years?

It is so obvious to me, especially when population groups either here (Amish) or overseas that don't get vaccinated still have the same rates of autism found 50 years ago.

I'm sorry to be inflammatory but I find it hard to believe that one with a medical background could not see this unless their were a shill

intotheabyss  posted on  2007-02-20   12:26:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: angle, everyone here (#27)

Alum A preservative.

Aluminum phosphate Toxic.

Aluminum & oil adjuvants Cancer-producing in laboratory mice; also associated with Alzheimer?s disease and seizures. Research findings strongly suggest that aluminum is neurotoxic. The main side effects of oil adjuvants have been hypersensitivity reactions, cysts and adjuvant arthritis.

Acetone A solvent used in fingernail polish remover.

Glycerin A tri-atomic alcohol extracted from natural fats which are putrefied and decomposed. Some toxic effects of glycerin are kidney, liver, lung damage, diuresis, pronounced local tissue damage, gastrointestinal damage and death.

Ethylene glycol Antifreeze.

Neomycin & Streptomycin Antibiotics; have caused allergic reactions.

That's just what I want for breakfast.

It's a wonder that the kids don't just die immediately from all that crap.

AlexJones is now discussing the cervical cancer vaccine that our governor helmet-head has "mandated" for the young girls in Texas.

Dr.Ron Paul for President

Lod  posted on  2007-02-20   13:19:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: lodwick (#37)

AlexJones is now discussing the cervical cancer vaccine that our governor helmet-head has "mandated" for the young girls in Texas.

You have to love old Rick Merck Perry. He is so kind and loving. Putting our young girls health above and beyond his own popularity rating.

He also knows we can't control ourselves and the number of miles we added to our poor worn out cars each month so he has a plan to deter us from such ends. By changing many of the already paid for roads into toll roads which will limit out driving due to cost.

Such a sweet, sweet man

Don't get me started.

intotheabyss  posted on  2007-02-20   13:32:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: YertleTurtle (#20)

I ended up with chicken pox, measles, all the kid diseases.

Same here...the only consequences of these diseases was that I wound up with a bad comic book habit. :-)

Remember...G-d saved more animals than people on the ark. www.siameserescue.org

who knows what evil  posted on  2007-02-20   13:40:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: intotheabyss (#38)

Such a sweet, sweet man

Don't get me started.

That criminal jerk-off makes smirk look like Sam Houston.

Dr.Ron Paul for President

Lod  posted on  2007-02-20   13:44:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: lodwick (#40)

That criminal jerk-off makes smirk look like Sam Houston.

What gets me is he seems to think he has executive order powers. So let me get this straight, if the Texas governor is one of the weakest of the 50 states, then what we really have in this country is 51 dictators.

Talk about tyranny....super size me ;)

intotheabyss  posted on  2007-02-20   13:50:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: intotheabyss (#41)

I don't know if the vaccine or the toll-roads anger me more - and the numb-nuts reps don't seem to be doing anything about it.

Dr.Ron Paul for President

Lod  posted on  2007-02-20   14:03:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: lodwick (#42)

I don't know if the vaccine or the toll-roads anger me more

I too, listen to Alex Jones and when he gets all wound up and on a rant I'm right there with him.

There are so many things going on right now that piss me off to no end, not so much the people doing it (cause we know they are evil) by like Alex the lack of any sane response of the sheep around me that I try to inform.

The programming of the one eyed non-Christian is so complete is some cases as to leave the victim a hopeless future slave IMHO.

intotheabyss  posted on  2007-02-20   14:14:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: who knows what evil (#39)

I ended up with chicken pox, measles, all the kid diseases.

Same here...the only consequences of these diseases was that I wound up with a bad comic book habit. :-)

You, too?

I ended up watching soap operas, of all things.

"We become what we behold. We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." -- Marshall McLuhan, after Alexander Pope and William Blake.

YertleTurtle  posted on  2007-02-20   20:11:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest


[Home]  [Headlines]  [Latest Articles]  [Latest Comments]  [Post]  [Sign-in]  [Mail]  [Setup]  [Help]