See other Pious Perverts Articles
Title: BeAChooser Bozo Count at 40 Plus and Counting - A Possible Site Record
Source:
Minerva
URL Source: http://freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=45820&Disp=409#C409
Published: Feb 19, 2007
Author: Minerva
Post Date: 2007-02-19 21:59:28 by Minerva
Keywords: None
Views: 23790
Comments: 375
Last night I took a guess at Beachy's bozo count. Today he spilled the beans and indicated that the number I guessed, between 40 and 50, was substantially correct. What does this mean? Well .... it means he is a piss poor excuse for excuse for an advocate. Nobody takes him serious. This is probably why Goldi booted him.
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#28. To: Diana (#25)
19. Ignore proof presented, demand impossible proofs. This is perhaps a variant of the 'play dumb' rule. Regardless of what material may be presented by an opponent in public forums, claim the material irrelevant and demand proof that is impossible for the opponent to come by (it may exist, but not be at his disposal, or it may be something which is known to be safely destroyed or withheld, such as a murder weapon.) In order to completely avoid discussing issues, it may be required that you to categorically deny and be critical of media or books as valid sources, deny that witnesses are acceptable, or even deny that statements made by government or other authorities have any meaning or relevance.
"First they ignore you. Then they ridicule you. Then they fight you. Then you win." --Mahatma K. Gandhi
I'm not bothered by so many FD4UMers using the bozo filter, Destro. It says much more about them, than me.
Diana, you forgot to mention that you said this: to explain away the discrepancy of the 600,000 or so missing bodies, missing death certificates, and missing news reports. Now since you appear to be denying that you believe large numbers of US soldiers were involved in this massive genocide and coverup (which, by the way, involves more than twice the dead Saddam is accused of putting in mass graves ... which they have found by the hundreds), perhaps you would be kind enough to tell us who you think did carry it out and how they managed to keep it secret from the hundreds of thousands of US soldiers who are in and have been to Iraq so far during this war? Will you answer or have you bozo'd yourself, too? ROTFLOL!
Readers ... note that not one of the following verifiable facts and concerns about the Les Roberts study is addressed in Mr Coles article: ********************* 1. The 655,000 estimate is many, many times larger than any other estimate out there (and there are about half a dozen others). Those other estimates were more like 50,000 at the time the John Hopkins study was published. Are they all wrong and only John Hopkins right? Even various anti-war groups such as Human Rights Watch and IraqBodyCount have indicated the John Hopkins' figures are outlandish. So why are FD4UMers so voraciously defending JH's estimates? 2. The report and the peer reviewer of the report (the Lancet) ignored a major discrepancy between the pre-war mortality estimate derived by the John Hopkins team and the estimates derived by other organizations such as the UN and WHO. The UN and WHO, in largers studies, came up with rates between 7-8 per 1000 per year compared to the John Hopkins rate of 5-5.5 per 1000 per year. And these larger rates were estimates that the Lancet had previously endorsed as accurate. This pre-war mortality number is one of the key numbers used in determining excess deaths. If it were as high as the UN and WHO found, then the number of excess deaths would be far less, perhaps a tenth as much. 3. A recent UN Development Program study, http://www.iq.undp.org/ILCS/PDF/Analytical%20Report%20-%20English.pdf, states that there were 24,000 war-related deaths (18,000-29,000, with a 95% confidence level) during the time covered by the Hopkins report. This is approximately ONE-FOURTH the number of excess deaths that Les Roberts' 2004 John Hopkins study found. And the UN used similar techniques - clusters, etc. - but with a much larger data set than John Hopkins. Why is there no mention of this study in the lastest John Hopkin's report (which claims its results verify the first JH report)? Why was this discrepancy not addressed by the Lancet *peer* reviewers? 4. According to the latest John Hopkins report, 92 percent of those who claimed deaths in their families (501 out of 545) were able to provide death certificates to prove it. Therefore, if the study is statistically valid, there should be death certificates available for about 92 percent of the total 655,000 estimated dead. But investigations by media sources that are not friendly to the Bush administration or the war have not found evidence of anywhere near that number. The Los Angeles Times, for example, in a comprehensive investigation found less than 50,000 certificates. Even if that investigation were off a factor of two, there is still a huge discrepancy. To take the Johns Hopkins results seriously, you have to believe that the Iraqi government recorded deaths occurring since the invasion with an accuracy of 92 percent, but then suppressed the bulk of those deaths when releasing official figures, with no one blowing the whistle. And you have to believe that all those dead bodies went unnoticed by the mainstream media and everyone else trying to keep track of the war casualties. Alternatively, you have to believe that the Iraqi government only issues death certificates for a small percentage of deaths, but this random sample happened to get 92 percent by pure chance. 5. A principle author of both John Hopkins studies, Les Roberts, has publically stated he disliked Bush (not unexpected given that he is an active democRAT) and the war. He has admitted that he released the study when he did to negatively influence the election against Bush and the GOP. And he has admitted that most of those he hired to conduct the study in Iraq "HATE" (that was his word) the Americans. None of that is a good basis for conducting a non-partisan study. 6. Nor is the behavior of the Lancet. They've not only failed to ask important questions during their *peer* reviews, they admit they greatly abbreviated that peer review process for the 2004 report so the results could be published in time to influence the 2004 election. They also reported on their own website in 2004, that the deaths estimated by John Hopkins were comprised solely of civilians. But the study made no such claim. In fact, it clearly states that the investigators did not ask those interviewed if the dead were civilians, Saddam military or insurgents. Which leads one to wonder if the Lancet actually read the report they claimed to review. 7. When media interviewers of the lead researchers completely misrepresented the results (for example, calling all the dead "civilians"), those researchers (one being Les Robert) made no effort to correct those falsehoods. And they went on to lie, both directly and by omission, about the methodology they used. This is indisputable. For example, here is what another of the John Hopkins researchers, Richard Garfield, told an interviewer: "First of all, very few people refused or were unable to take part in the sample, to our surprise most people had death certificates and we were able to confirm most of the deaths we investigated." That is a LIE since the first study (which is what he was talking about) indicates they only confirmed 7% of the deaths. And Les Roberts did the exact same thing in another interview. 8. In the Garfield interview mentioned above, he stated "And here you see that deaths recorded in the Baghdad morgue were, for a long period, around 200 per month." Let me repeat that figure ... 200 A MONTH, in one of the most populated and most violent regions in the country during the time in question. And now Les Roberts is asking us to believe that 15,000 (on average) were dying each month in the country since the war began. How could Garfield not have questions about this new estimate given his previous statement? 9. Richard Garfield is another of those who advocated mortality statistics before the war that are widely divergent from those derived using the Les Roberts/John Hopkins interviews. In fact, Richard Garfield said the most probable number of deaths of under-five children from August 1991 to June 2002 would be about 400,000. His *expert* opinion was that the rate in 2002 would was 9-10 percent. That is compared to the Les Robert's estimate of 2.9 percent. So why didn't Roberts or Garfield address this disparity? And note that the Lancet blessed and championed the conclusions of Garfield back in 2002. So why did they ignore the discrepancy during their peer review of Les Roberts' study? 10. There is NO physical evidence whatsoever to support the claim that 655,000 Iraqis were killed from the beginning of the war to mid 2006. There are no killing fields filled with bodies or mass graves. There are no photos of these mountains of bodies. There are no videos of this slaughter or the funerals afterwords. There are no reporters, of ANY nationality, saying they saw these bodies or the slaughter. There are no US or foreign soldiers providing evidence of such a slaughter. There is NO physical evidence. 11. Dahr Jamail is an example of the above. He is viralently anti-American. He has close ties to the insurgents and arabs. So look on his website ( http://dahrjamailiraq.com/) for any indication that 500, much less 100 Iraqis were dying every single day on average back in 2003 and 2004 when he first started reporting from Iraq, which was during the period covered by not only the second but the first John Hopkins study. You won't find any indication. 12. Last year was arguably the most violent since the invasion. Yet even the Iraqis reported the number killed was on the order of 16,000 in that year ... an average of 45 a day. That certainly stands in sharp constrast to the John Hopkins researchers (and their proponents) who claim that more than 500 a day have died every day on average since the invasion began. 13. But the discrepancy is even worse than that. As noted by the author of this blog, http://www.claytoncramer.com/weblog/2006_10_08_archive.html#116069912405842066, "The claim is 654,965 excess deaths caused by the war from March 2003 through July 2006. That's 40 months, or 1200 days, so an average of 546 deaths per day. To get an average of 546 deaths per day means that there must have been either many hundreds of days with 1000 or more deaths per day (example: 200 days with 1000 deaths = 200,000 dead leaves 1000 days with an average of 450 deaths), or tens of days with at least 10,000 or more deaths per day (example: 20 days with 10,000 deaths = 200,000 dead leaves 1180 days with an average of 381 deaths). So, where are the news accounts of tens of days with 10,000 or more deaths?" 14. The number of dead the John Hopkins methodology gives in Fallujah is so staggering that even the John Hopkins researchers had to discard the data point. Yet in interviews, Les Roberts has responded as if the Fallujah data was accurate. For example, in an interview with Socialist Workers Online (note who he uses to get his message out), when asked why two thirds of all violent deaths were concentrated in this city, Les Roberts didn't respond "the data was wrong or atypical in Fallujah" as it states in his report. No, instead he answered the question as if he thought the data point was representative of what happened in Fallujah as a whole. He said "we think that our findings, if anything, underestimated the number of deaths because of the number of empty and destroyed houses." Then why didn't they keep the Fallujah data point? 15. John Hopkins claims "We estimate that as of July, 2006, there have been 654,965 (392,979 - 942,636) excess Iraqi deaths as a consequence of the war, which corresponds to 2.5% of the population in the study area. Of post-invasion deaths, 601,027 (426,369 - 793,663) were due to violence, the most common cause being gun fire." But during World War II, the Allied air forces carpet bombed German cities, using high explosives and incendiaries, and according to The United States Strategic Bombing Survey Summary Report killed an estimated 305,000. So are we to believe that with gun fire rather than bombs, twice as many Iraqis have been killed in the last 3 years, as died in all Germany during WW2 due to strategic bombing of cities which completely flattened entire cities? Likewise, Japan had about 2 million citizens killed (about 2.7 percent of their population), both military and civilian. Many Japanese cities were firebombed during that war (for example, Tokyo had 100,000 people killed in just one raid). Two cities were attacked with nuclear weapons. And yet Les Roberts and his crew want us to believe that just as large a percentage have died in Iraq ... where the Coalition has gone out of its way to avoid civilian deaths? **************** Number 4 is particularly damning.
That sounds just like him, that's exactly what he does. That's why as Red Jones said it's impossible to win an argument with him.
Perhaps you haven't heard, but often in wartime when people are killed, their deaths are not always documented by photograpshs, film, video or even by death certificates. In fact quite often they are killed and their bodies are quietly buried in mass graves where they aren't discovered until some time later. I'm surprised you aren't aware of this practice. This has to be some sort of stunt to get me to answer because otherwise it would imply........ You're NUTS!! What do you think I wrote above ?? Just that!
I have only '0' bozos on my account, but I am not very active at this site. I have 6 at LP but I used to have 12 or 14 at one time.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
Referrring to what I posted in post #25 and again just now, I will play you. I never referred to any nation, any army in that post. Actually, I was talking about the Armenian genocide where many innocent civilians were killed and their bodies disposed of. Untold thousands died at the hands of the Turks. Again, I'm surprised you're not aware of this practice, which occurs in ALL wars.
Then he should be easy to debunk.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
It doesn't quite work that way when he switches facts for falsehoods and vice versa, leaves some facts out altogether and twists and weaves until the opponent throws their hands up in the air in dispair. If he were on the up and up your statement would be true.
You are mistaken Destro. BAC has never lost an argument.
Galatians 3:29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
In addition to that, as poster ... points out, he pulls facts that don't exist out of dark places.
And never will.
Neither he nor you are here to have legitimate discussion. Your agendas are quite simply to disrupt any cogent thread with your nonsense. Why bother debunking nonsense. Until you and the others are bozoed and eventually banned, you are being very effective, especially for lurkers and newcomers.
"First they ignore you. Then they ridicule you. Then they fight you. Then you win." --Mahatma K. Gandhi
Really, Diana, you need to read complete sentences before responding. Here is the rest of the sentence you partially quoted ... the part you forgot to mention to your readers and then again ignored in your response to my complaint. "to explain away the discrepancy of the 600,000 or so missing bodies, missing death certificates, and missing news reports."
BAC has provided facts confirming that this is his picture. I've long accused BAC of being queer; but that's disgusting. Where did BAC confirm that's his picture?
So do you think that's an explanation why some 600,000 bodies, death certificates and news reports are missing in this war? Do you think someone is out there disposing of the bodies after our soldiers kill them, Diana? If so, who is this someone? How many someone's are there? And how have our soldiers failed to notice what's going on?
Picking on the ladies, again, eh BAC? Is that part of your "queer" agenda?
Oh, is that what this thread is? A cogent thread? ROTFLOL!
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMEN! Then again...perhaps that's the 'agenda'.
I would like to know how you got all this information, all this insight, all these "facts" in this post of yours: "Actually I simply asked her questions. She tried to explain away the fact that there is NO physical evidence to support the allegation that 655,000 Iraqis were killed in Iraq through July of last year by stating "In fact quite often they are killed and their bodies are quietly buried in mass graves where they aren't discovered until some time later." Now maybe you don't see that as assertion that our soldiers must be involved in covering up the bulk of that death but I think most people will. And I think most will understand my logic in suggesting it would take quite a few soldiers to hide all that evidence and keep reporters away. And soldiers being soldiers, I think most will agree that by now all soldiers in Iraq would know this is going on. In which case, they must be keeping it quiet. Which can only make them accessories to the crime. Right? She certainly implied someone connected to our government is doing the burying. If not our soldiers, WHO? And how could anyone hide what they were doing from our soldiers? Sorry, but I think it is highly illogical to believe that this scale of attrocity (which, by the way, it greater than the one Saddam was accused of) is going on without our soldiers being aware of it and therefore complicit." from this short post of mine: "Uh.... Perhaps you haven't heard, but often in wartime when people are killed, their deaths are not always documented by photograpshs, film, video or even by death certificates. In fact quite often they are killed and their bodies are quietly buried in mass graves where they aren't discovered until some time later. I'm surprised you aren't aware of this practice." I would appreciate an explanation of how you derived all these "facts", these interpretations, from my short post above, thanks.
Because you didn't post what you posted in isolation. You posted in response to my assertion that 600,000 or so bodies, death certificates and eyewitnesses are missing. You posted that as a way of explaining those away. Now if you are not implying that someone in Iraq is quietly disposing of hundreds of thousands of bodies, just say so Diana, and I will be happy to apologize for misinterpreting your remarks.
bob and weave and duck.....
Let's just see who is bobbing and weaving ... If you are not suggesting that someone in Iraq has disposed of half a million or more bodies without any record of doing so, just say so Diana, and I will be happy to apologize for misinterpreting your remarks.
My statement does not take any sides either way. I come out against this cliquish almost Freerepublic like behavior.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
We/I am?? Then provide an example of such disruption - stating an opinion you guys don't like does not equal disruption.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Chickens coming home to roost on America when America used to champion using this kind of quasi statistic gathering when she wanted to show Serbia as being genocidal monsters. I like that America is now made to answer using the same kind of procedure gathering for the numbers. This is not a defense for American policy in Iraq which I am against and detest.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
I already bothered to provide an example. One you denied. No more time shall be wasted on your posts.
"First they ignore you. Then they ridicule you. Then they fight you. Then you win." --Mahatma K. Gandhi
"to explain away the discrepancy of the 600,000 or so missing bodies, missing death certificates, and missing news reports." I never said that, ever. Please find where I actually posted "to explain away the discrepency of the 600,000 or so missing bodies, missing death certificates, and the missing news reports" I don't recall ever having said that, and it doesn't even sound like language I would use. Are you making up falsehoods here? I would appreicate if you find and document where I said that, perhaps it would refresh my memory. And please don't come back with some lame brain reason why you won't do it, since you are now accusing me of something I never even said, unless I said it a long time ago and don't remember it, but I highly doubt that. So proof please, in order to boost your own credibility.
Partially quoted? Is this some new trick term you thought up?
Isn't it defamation of character to attribute false quotes to people? And I'm still waiting for your explanation of what a "partial quote" is. Your imagination ran wild with that one post I made to you that I've had to quote back several times. Are you delusional perhaps? Do you hear voices that tell you things?
Again, this is the entire post I wrote where you have pulled out all sorts of meanings and interpretations including my saying a mass genocide and cover up is taking place by our US govt. This is my entire quote that you have been monkeying around with, in it's entirety. And there are no "partial quotes" in it. So, for like the tenth time, here it is, again: "Uh.... Perhaps you haven't heard, but often in wartime when people are killed, their deaths are not always documented by photograpshs, film, video or even by death certificates. In fact quite often they are killed and their bodies are quietly buried in mass graves where they aren't discovered until some time later. I'm surprised you aren't aware of this practice."
It is pretty fucking sad that this, of all forums, has come to this 'back and forth sniping tripe'. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMEN! Then again...perhaps that's the 'agenda'. come on, guys...back and forth sniping happens on all forums. board content and posts vary hour to hour depending on the individuals online and the articles and threads they're interested in posting to. this particular thread was posted by one person here. it doesn't set the tone or agenda for the entire forum forever and ever. sheesh. i guess i could be an ogress and start deleting all snipes. ;)
Di, dear lady, just tell the bastard to go fuck himself and get it over with! Being the nice sweet lady you are makes this turd-faced jerkoff bolder.
********************* 1. The 655,000 estimate is many, many times larger than any other estimate out there (and there are about half a dozen others). Those other estimates were more like 50,000 at the time the John Hopkins study was published. Are they all wrong and only John Reading no farther than the first few lines, you already make a misleading statement, implying that Cole's numbers have no basis. To give an idea of the lack of coverage of daily death statistics, Cole cites an example in Basra where the Iraqi governmente stated that one person each hour was assasinated for politcial reasons in that city. None of these made the news. That gives 24 unreported people just for political reasons in one day alone in one city alone. And Basra wasn't and isn't considered a particularly violent city. When you extend the lack of reporting about daily deaths in Basra, across the entire country and its 36 million population, you have an environment where hundreds of people could easily disappear without any major media noticing. Cole is proving his point quite well - and Cole has actually been to Iraq, unlike you. He just isn't offering proof in a way that you've set up in your own little world. All I can say is, life goes on without you.
Are you referring to BushCo? I know they're not in Iraq but their military is.
There are about 90 major towns and cities in Iraq. If we subtract Baghdad, where about 100 a day die, that still leaves 89. If an average of 4 or so are killed in each of those 89, then the study's results are correct. Of course, 4 is an average. Cities in areas dominated by the guerrilla movement will have more than 4 killed daily, sleepy Kurdish towns will have no one killed. If 470 were dying every day, what would that look like? West Baghdad is roughly 10% of the Iraqi population. It is certainly generating 47 dead a day. Same for Sadr City, same proportions. So to argue against the study you have to assume that Baquba, Hilla, Kirkuk, Kut, Amara, Samarra, etc., are not producing deaths at the same rate as the two halves of Baghad. But it is perfectly plausible that rough places like Kut and Amara, with their displaced Marsh Arab populations, are keeping up their end. Four dead a day in Kut or Amara at the hands of militiamen or politicized tribesmen? Is that really hard to believe? Have you been reading this column the last three years? The Los Angeles Times, for example, in a comprehensive investigation found less than 50,000 certificates. And since we've been over this many times already, you are intentionally trying to deceive and mislead.
Do I hear crickets?
Bunch of internet bums ... grand jury --- opium den ! ~ byeltsin
No, you never said that, but why else would you post me what you did in response to my assertion that 600,000 or more bodies, death certificates, news reports must be missing if the John Hopkins' estimate is correct? So let me ask you again, If you were not suggesting that someone in Iraq has disposed of half a million or more bodies without any record of doing so, then just say so, and I will be happy to apologize for misinterpreting your remarks.
Why don't you quote the entire post you responded to, Diana?
rowdee, you are such a gentleman. The ladies must love you.
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#29. To: Destro, ALL (#16)
Anyone who places anyone on bozo for non harassment reasons on a forum is an intellectual coward.
#30. To: Diana, RickyJ, ALL (#25)
You see what he is doing here? If you go through his post carefully, you can see how many inflammatory accusations he is making. A person has to decide whether they are willing to put up with that kind of dishonest and potentially harmful behavior.
Perhaps you haven't heard, but often in wartime when people are killed, their deaths are not always documented by photograpshs, film, video or even by death certificates.
In fact quite often they are killed and their bodies are quietly buried in mass graves where they aren't discovered until some time later. I'm surprised you aren't aware of this practice.
#31. To: AGAviator, Diana, ALL (#26)
Les Roberts Answers Your Questions
Juan Cole: 655,000 Dead in Iraq since Bush Invasion
#32. To: angle, Red Jones (#28)
Ignore proof presented, demand impossible proofs. This is perhaps a variant of the 'play dumb' rule. Regardless of what material may be presented by an opponent in public forums, claim the material irrelevant and demand proof that is impossible for the opponent to come by (it may exist, but not be at his disposal, or it may be something which is known to be safely destroyed or withheld, such as a murder weapon.) In order to completely avoid discussing issues, it may be required that you to categorically deny and be critical of media or books as valid sources, deny that witnesses are acceptable, or even deny that statements made by government or other authorities have any meaning or relevance.
#33. To: BeAChooser (#30)
Diana, you forgot to mention that you said this:
#34. To: Minerva (#0)
#35. To: BeAChooser (#30)
to explain away the discrepancy of the 600,000 or so missing bodies, missing death certificates, and missing news reports. Now since you appear to be denying that you believe large numbers of US soldiers were involved in this massive genocide and coverup (which, by the way, involves more than twice the dead Saddam is accused of putting in mass graves ... which they have found by the hundreds), perhaps you would be kind enough to tell us who you think did carry it out and how they managed to keep it secret from the hundreds of thousands of US soldiers who are in and have been to Iraq so far during this war?
#36. To: Diana (#21)
There is no intellect present in an exceedingly dishonest poster with a very questionable agenda.
#37. To: Destro (#36)
#38. To: Destro, Diana (#36)
Then he should be easy to debunk.
#39. To: Destro (#36)
#40. To: Red Jones, Destro (#38)
You are mistaken Destro. BAC has never lost an argument.
#41. To: Destro, christine (#36)
Then he should be easy to debunk.
#42. To: Diana, ALL (#33)
"Diana, you forgot to mention that you said this:"
"Perhaps you haven't heard, but often in wartime when people are killed, their deaths are not always documented by photograpshs, film, video or even by death certificates."
"In fact quite often they are killed and their bodies are quietly buried in mass graves where they aren't discovered until some time later. I'm surprised you aren't aware of this practice."
This has to be some sort of stunt to get me to answer because otherwise it would imply........
You're NUTS!!
What do you think I wrote above ?? Just that!
#43. To: Red Jones, Critter, Christine, Brian S, Honway, Robin, Aristeides, Diana, Kamala, All (#5)
BAC is the guy on the left.
#44. To: Diana, ALL (#35)
Again, I'm surprised you're not aware of this practice, which occurs in ALL wars.
#45. To: BeAChooser (#44)
#46. To: angle, Destro, ALL (#41)
Your agendas are quite simply to disrupt any cogent thread with your nonsense.
#47. To: Brian S (#7)
It is pretty fucking sad that this, of all forums, has come to this 'back and forth sniping tripe'.
Remember...G-d saved more animals than people on the ark. www.siameserescue.org
#48. To: BeAChooser, SKYDRIFTER, Red Jones, tom007, Destro, christine, All (#44)
#49. To: Diana, ALL (#48)
I would appreciate an explanation of how you derived all these "facts", these interpretations, from my short post above, thanks.
#50. To: BeAChooser, Red Jones (#49)
#51. To: Diana, ALL (#50)
bob and weave and duck.....
#52. To: Red Jones, Diana (#38)
(Edited)
You are mistaken Destro. BAC has never lost an argument.
#53. To: angle (#41)
Neither he nor you are here to have legitimate discussion. Your agendas are quite simply to disrupt any cogent thread with your nonsense. Why bother debunking nonsense.
#54. To: BeAChooser, Diana (#44)
#55. To: Destro (#53)
#56. To: BeAChooser, rowdee, Red Jones, Scrapper 2, all (#42)
Really, Diana, you need to read complete sentences before responding. Here is the rest of the sentence you partially quoted ... the part you forgot to mention to your readers and then again ignored in your response to my complaint.
#57. To: BeAChooser (#42)
Here is the rest of the sentence you partially quoted ...
#58. To: BeAChooser (#44)
Do you think someone is out there disposing of the bodies after our soldiers kill them, Diana? If so, who is this someone? How many someone's are there?
#59. To: BeAChooser, rowdee (#51)
If you are not suggesting that someone in Iraq has disposed of half a million or more bodies without any record of doing so, just say so Diana, and I will be happy to apologize for misinterpreting your remarks.
#60. To: who knows what evil, Brian S (#47)
Brian S (#7)
#61. To: Diana (#56)
#62. To: BeAChooser (#31)
Readers ... note that not one of the following verifiable facts and concerns about the Les Roberts study is addressed in Mr Coles article:
#63. To: BeAChooser (#51)
If you are not suggesting that someone in Iraq has disposed of half a million or more bodies without any record of doing so, just say so Diana,
#64. To: BeAChooser (#31)
There is heavy fighting almost every day at Ramadi in al-Anbar province, among guerrillas, townspeople, tribes, Marines and Iraqi police and army. We almost never get a report of these skirmishes and we almost never are told about Iraqi casualties in Ramadi. Does 1 person a day die there of political violence? Is it more like 4? 10? What about Samarra? Tikrit? No one is saying. Since they aren't, on what basis do we say that the Lancet study is impossible?
In that same article, The Los Angeles times explicitly stated that 50,000 is a gross undercount and excluded entire sections of the country.
#65. To: AGAviator (#62)
#66. To: Diana, ALL (#56)
"to explain away the discrepancy of the 600,000 or so missing bodies, missing death certificates, and missing news reports."
I never said that, ever.
#67. To: Diana, ALL (#59)
"If you are not suggesting that someone in Iraq has disposed of half a million or more bodies without any record of doing so, just say so Diana, and I will be happy to apologize for misinterpreting your remarks."
Again, this is the entire post I wrote where you have pulled out all sorts of meanings and interpretations including my saying a mass genocide and cover up is taking place by our US govt. This is my entire quote that you have been monkeying around with, in it's entirety. And there are no "partial quotes" in it.
So, for like the tenth time, here it is, again:
"Uh....
Perhaps you haven't heard, but often in wartime when people are killed, their deaths are not always documented by photograpshs, film, video or even by death certificates.
In fact quite often they are killed and their bodies are quietly buried in mass graves where they aren't discovered until some time later. I'm surprised you aren't aware of this practice."
#68. To: rowdee, Diana, ALL (#61)
Di, dear lady, just tell the bastard to go fuck himself and get it over with!
Being the nice sweet lady you are makes this turd-faced jerkoff bolder.
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