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Title: Cherokees eject slave descendants
Source:
BBC
URL Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6416735.stm
Published: Mar 4, 2007
Author: Unattributed
Post Date: 2007-03-05 18:44:49 by Tauzero
Keywords: Kumbaya
Views: 368
Comments: 28
Members of the Cherokee Nation of native Americans have voted to revoke tribal citizenship for descendants of black slaves the Cherokees once owned. A total of 76.6% voted to amend the tribal constitution to limit citizenship to "blood" tribe members. Supporters said only the Cherokees had the right to determine tribal members. Opponents said the amendment was racist and aimed at preventing those with African-American heritage from gaining tribal revenue and government funding. The Cherokee Nation has 250,000 to 270,000 members, second only to the Navajo. 'Right to vote' The list of descendants stems from the Dawes Commission, established by Congress more than 100 years ago. It created what are known as the final rolls, establishing different categories including: "blood" Cherokee, Cherokee freedman (of African descent), Cherokee by intermarriage and Delaware Cherokee. Principal Chief Chad Smith said about 8,700 people had voted - more than the turnout for the Cherokee constitution vote of four years ago. He said: "The Cherokee people exercised the most basic democratic right, the right to vote. "Their voice is clear as to who should be citizens of the Cherokee Nation. No-one else has the right to make that determination." But opponents of the amendment levelled accusations of discrimination. Tribal council member Taylor Keen said: "This is a sad chapter in Cherokee history... this is not my Cherokee Nation. My Cherokee Nation is one that honours all parts of her past." Saturday's vote followed a ruling by the Cherokee Nation Supreme Court last year securing tribal citizenship for descendants of freedmen. Members can obtain government benefits and tribal services including housing and medical support. Slaves were held by a number of native American tribes and were freed after the Civil War in 1866.
Poster Comment: Perhaps not coincidentally, the Cherokee thought the alphabet a good idea. Saturday's vote followed a ruling by the Cherokee Nation Supreme Court last year securing tribal citizenship for descendants of freedmen. First thing, kill the lawyers.
Cherokees eject slave descendants
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#1. To: Tauzero (#0)
The vote is unconstitutional because the status of citizen for the Cherokee nation was determined by treaty with the USA.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Who asked you, whitey?
Hoop-dee-doo, hoop-dee-doo; I hear a polka and my troubles are through; Hoop-dee-doo, hoop-dee-dee; This kind of music is like heaven to me
Ah, yes, the treaties that the US Government has so carefully abided by - not one has ever been bent or broken! The Cherokee Tribe can amend their own Constitution as they see fit. As can the USA with their own.
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Two wrongs don't make a right.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
That may be true but it is irrelevent in this context. The Cherokee Nation can do as it pleases with its own Constitution and can set its own terms for tribal membership, paleface. Chief Chad Smith has spoken and his word - as well as the vote - is now law.
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Is this concerning just the Western Nation of the whole of Cherokee Nation? I have seen nothing about this from our local papers or any other news about this coming from the Eastern Nation just down the road... In any event, this will probably force them to address the issue.
"People should not be afraid of their governments, governments should be afraid of their people." -- V
If a bunch of watered down European "Jews" of dubious genetic origin can steal land that their "ancestors" lived on two millenia ago and set up a racialist de facto aparteid state that routinely threatens its neighbors then we should consider ourselves lucky that the Cherokee nation, only a couple hundred years removed from the displacement from their ancestral lands, is merely restricting membership to who can profit off casino revenues.
Good point.
Bingo. As usual, its all about the money.....
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good point - stupid treaties. people should not use treaties to make law either. but from news reports I heard it seems to me that people who are descendant from marriage between cherokee & non-cherokee may be excluded and I'm not so sure that's a good idea. almost all of them have non-cherokee blood now. It seems maybe they're excluding black blood only perhaps and not white blood. but I don't know - news reports are vague.
Galatians 3:29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
I was right - I read a news story on another web site. they are purging the members who are part cherokee by blood and part black. but not the members who are part cherokee and part white.
Galatians 3:29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
I understand - but they GAVE UP THAT RIGHT to said treaty.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Again, who is a Cherokee citizen - key word - CITIZEN - was determined by treaty with the USA - thus the Cherokee can not violate that treaty and de-citizen their ex slave population. This is legal point I am making not an emotional one.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Many Native Americans welcomed African Americans into their villages. Even as slaves many African Americans became part of a family group, and many intermarried with Native Americans - thus many later became classified as Black Indians. Therefore Black Oklahoma evolved in many areas as biracial communities within Indian nations. This is a unique history, which developed in many of the western communities where the two groups came together. http://www.liu.edu/CWIS/CWP/library/african/west/west.htm It's rather silly to deny history.
Victory means exit strategy, and it’s important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is. ~George W. Bush it is god who decides who is part of a nation.
Galatians 3:29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Really? So I became an American citizen by an act of God? Citizenship is a political construct - it does not mean ethnicity - which is what I think you are confusing it with. For example the Jew named Saul of the New Testament who became St. Paul was a Roman citizen - but he was not an ethnic Roman.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
And now they are repudiating said treaty. Nations do this all the time and can set their own requirements for citizenship.
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Then America can move against the Cherokee for doing this - removing the treaty provisions that allow casinoes and other money making scams that are protected via their artifical sovreignty - which would hobble them.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
They can but they will lose. USSC has already ruled that the tribes can set their own requirements for tribal membership being a "domestic dependent nation" (as ruled by John Marshall two centuries ago)... Its time to face reality. What the Cherokee did is perfectly legal and with precedent. Tribes expel members all the time or peel off "those with insufficient amounts of native blood" and nobody has won a case yet.
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this really sucks cuz i was looking to get in on selling non taxed cigarettes after i put up a casino at the end of my subdivision.
“All of us should treasure his (John Dillinger) Oriental wisdom and his preaching of a Zen-like detachment, as exemplified by his constant reminder to clerks, tellers, or others who grew excited by his presence in their banks: "Just lie down on the floor and keep calm."” --- Robert Anton Wilson “Intelligence is the capacity to receive, decode and transmit information efficiently. Stupidity is blockage of this process at any point. Bigotry, ideologies etc. block the ability to receive; robotic reality-tunnels block the ability to decode or integrate new signals; censorship blocks transmission.” --- Robert Anton Wilson
But this time we have a treaty stating who is and who is not a citizen - the Black Cherokee freedmen can now ask to either be forced back into the tribal nation or be recognized as another Cherokee people - per treaty - I love law stuff.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Maybe. They can petition the Feds for status as a recognized tribe. I don't know how that would work out. This particular vote only affects about 3000 people out of 270,000 so its not like its a big cleaving. The Cherokee started their expulsion drive in the 1980s so it has been going for a while now. The Tribal Supreme Court (or whatever it is) ruled back in 1983 that the Freedmen could not be expelled based on the Cherokee Tribe Constitution and the 1866 treaty. Thus, the vote on the Constitutional Amendment to force the issue. The Tribal Courts could yet rule that they can't amend their own Constitution in this manner, but I don't see that happening. Reservations and Tribal Courts are a "completely different world" from that one that the rest of us inhabit. Also in a different world are how the US Courts deal with the tribes. Currently, they are experiencing a massive expansion of soverignty where they can take "off reservation land" off of property tax rolls and are enjoying that right all over the country. Whatever happens, it'll be bizarre. I just don't see the Cherokee Nation being forced to "take back" tribal members they have expelled. That has been a losing case for decades now.
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I don't disagree with anything you wrote. If not for the treaty of 1866 this point of mine would be moot.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Yes, but the Cherokee Nation has mooted your point for you :-)
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Maybe, but since the treaty is with the federal govt I am a citizen of then I get to put my 2 cents in. The Indians have always garnered sympathy by maintaining the white man violated treaties with them - not wholly true - but true enough - so this is destroys this perception,
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Perception is everything in this world. Substance only matters to some. Well, since they are abrogating the treaty that ended the Civil War with them, an appropriate response would be to send the Army in to occupy their territory. Ditching a peace treaty could be taken by many as a desire to resume hostilities. Would that be an adequate response?
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The treaty was a recognition treaty - not an end of war treaty with this tribe. The correct response would be for the American govt to continue to recognize these cast offs as Cherokees and make sure Federal tribal money goes to them.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Sure, they can recoup Federal Money which is a pittance, but the Casino money is what this is about and they'll be cut off from that. That's the real deal here. BIA money is nothing in comparison to the casino cash.
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#2. To: Destro (#1)
#3. To: Destro (#1)
The vote is unconstitutional because the status of citizen for the Cherokee nation was determined by treaty with the USA.
#4. To: mirage (#3)
Ah, yes, the treaties that the US Government has so carefully abided by - not one has ever been bent or broken!
#5. To: Destro (#4)
Two wrongs don't make a right.
#6. To: all (#5)
#7. To: mirage (#5)
#8. To: Burkeman1 (#7)
Aaron - El Pee poster
#9. To: Burkeman1 (#7)
#10. To: mirage (#3)
the treaties that the US Government has so carefully abided by - not one has ever been bent or broken!
#11. To: mirage (#3)
#12. To: mirage (#5)
The Cherokee Nation can do as it pleases with its own Constitution and can set its own terms for tribal membership, paleface.
#13. To: Red Jones, mirage (#11)
#14. To: Red Jones (#11)
I was right - I read a news story on another web site. they are purging the members who are part cherokee by blood and part black. but not the members who are part cherokee and part white.
Kitty Cloud Taylor and her sisters of the Ute
(courtesy of Schlissel, Black Fontiers, p. 61)
Diana Fletcher of the Kiowa (photo courtesy of Black Frontiers, p.69)
When more than 60,000 Native Americans were removed from their homes during the 1830s by U.S. Federal troops from the southeastern states of the United States - they were forced Westward to Oklahoma, Kansas, and Nebraska. This was called the "Trail of Tears." Many of these Native American tribes had previously embraced and either helped or kept numerous African Americans as slaves. African Americans and Native Americans created a mixed cultural blend depending upon the specific tribal group.
(About the quote: Speaking on the war in Kosovo.)
#15. To: Destro (#13)
#16. To: Red Jones (#15)
it is god who decides who is part of a nation.
#17. To: Destro, Red Jones (#13)
Again, who is a Cherokee citizen - key word - CITIZEN - was determined by treaty with the USA - thus the Cherokee can not violate that treaty and de-citizen their ex slave population.
#18. To: mirage (#17)
And now they are repudiating said treaty. Nations do this all the time and can set their own requirements for citizenship.
#19. To: Destro (#18)
Then America can move against the Cherokee for doing this - removing the treaty provisions that allow casinoes and other money making scams that are protected via their artifical sovreignty - which would hobble them.
#20. To: Tauzero (#0)
#21. To: mirage (#19)
USSC has already ruled that the tribes can set their own requirements for tribal membership being a "domestic dependent nation"
#22. To: Destro (#21)
But this time we have a treaty stating who is and who is not a citizen - the Black Cherokee freedmen can now ask to either be forced back into the tribal nation or be recognized as another Cherokee people - per treaty - I love law stuff.
#23. To: mirage (#22)
#24. To: Destro (#23)
If not for the treaty of 1866 this point of mine would be moot.
#25. To: mirage (#24)
Yes, but the Cherokee Nation has mooted your point for you :-)
#26. To: Destro (#25)
#27. To: mirage (#26)
Well, since they are abrogating the treaty that ended the Civil War
#28. To: Destro (#27)
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