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Title: Better Think Twice About Paying At The Pump With Your Card-Or...Little-known ways the banks rip you off every day
Source:
data4science
URL Source: http://www.data4science.net
Published: Mar 8, 2007
Author: Ted Twietmeyer
Post Date: 2007-03-08 11:43:26 by gengis gandhi
Keywords: None
Views: 184
Comments: 11
Better Think Twice About Paying At The Pump With Your Card Or...Little-known ways the banks rip you off every day Ted Twietmeyer 3-5-7 RIP-OFF #1 Everyone has done it. You stumble out of your car, make a bee-line for the card reader on the pump, swipe your card and the pump and start filling your tank. Why go inside and stand in line? This is far easier and it's all the same, right? I thought so too, until one day I found my bank balance was seriously shorter than it should be and explored the reason why. Paying at the pump is NOT the same as paying inside. When you pay at the pump here's what happens. This fact is straight from a bank officer at my bank. Using your credit/debit card will authorize you to pump gas and the gas station company to invisibly debit your account for an amount that can be THREE TO FIVE TIMES what the pump displays! That's right - $20.00 of gasoline can result in an IMMEDIATE DEBIT from your account of up to $100.00. Suppose you're driving on a long trip in a small to mid-size vehicle getting typical mileage and fill your tank twice the first day, by the time you reach your hotel or destination your bank account can be $200.00 less than when you got in your car that morning! And what if you drive a gas pig SUV that costs $40.00 to fill each time? Your bank account could plunge up to $400.00 without you being aware of it, before you even reach your hotel. If you're traveling on a tight budget, you could actually have your credit/debit card denied by the hotel when you check in. This too, was confirmed by the bank officer. Often when traveling by vehicle we think of the hotel as our single biggest daily expense. This isn't always the case. The bank officer's remark about WHY this is done was, "They do that because they don't know how much gas you'll be buying." A lame excuse if I ever heard one. Any gas company could re-credit your account just as quickly as they debit it It was time to test this fact prove it is indeed true. First, a look on-line to check my bank balance. Then a trip to the nearest gas station to fill the car. Immediately upon returning home I checked the bank balance again. Sure enough - a sum of 3 TIMES of what the pump display was gone from my account. And 3 1/2 days the missing money "re-appeared" in the bank. However, if you walk inside the gas station and pay there instead, my test revealed that only the exact amount is taken from the account. It's handled like any ordinary retail transaction. Naturally, banks never tell account holders about this dirty deed - unless they ask about it or notice it. By now you're asking, "How long can they keep my money?" The answer I received upon asking the bank officer was THREE TO FIVE DAYS. RIP-OFF #2 Now here's another aspect to this dirty deed few people realize. While your money has disappeared into this no-man's land - will you receive all the interest on it they made while it was stolen from you? Not likely. RIP-OFF #3 There is also the absurd "5-7 day wait for deposited checks to clear." In this era of computers and instant credits and debits, does it REALLY take that long? Certainly not. But they use your money for several days in investment accounts, reap the interest and then give you nothing other than the actual deposit amount. But go try and write a check at any major store like China-mart and see what happens. The check reader attached to the cash register reads your account number, submits it to your bank through the network and immediately right there on the spot, takes the funds from your bank account. Checks are now the same as a debit card. One day in Wal-Mart a cashier called security because a woman had written a check which was rejected on-the-spot by the system. She was trying to buy a color television with it, and they took her away. RIP-OFF #4 This one is right up there near the top of the nasty list of bank tricks. Like many people I pay my bills once a month. About 1AM I called the phone company to pay my phone bill. Quicker and more reliable than mailing it, right? It was shocking to discover that the transaction was DENIED by the phone company computer. Thinking I made an entry error, I tried a second time but to no avail. I then went on-line to check my bank balance and to my horror, found that all but about $20.00 was GONE from my account. That resulted in a sleepless night. Where did the money go? Was my account hacked? Did the bank make a serious error? What happened? About 5AM, I crawled out of bed and to check on-line again. Presto- like a magic trick the missing funds re-appeared. But the bank had already hit my account with overdraw charges for EACH of the two attempts I made to pay my phone bill. Now I was boiling mad and couldn't wait until 9AM came. If I was on the road and attempted to use that card at a gas station that night or at a hotel, it would have been denied. A call to the bank resulted in numerous apologies by them for the stunt. Many readers already know what this is - it's called "sweeps." In the middle of the night many bank accounts are hit by this. Since the stock market is open on the other side of the planet, the bank's computers take the money from thousands of checking and other accounts and invest it in short-term investments overseas. Before the banks open, the money magically re-appears in all the accounts. Of course, the depositor never sees a penny in interest from this dirty trick either. You may have an "interest-bearing bank account" - but you'll never see the killing they make from your money overseas 5 days a week. SWEEPS IMPLICATIONS Now let's look at this system a bit closer: The entire sweeps system depends on EVERYTHING working flawlessly. Imagine for a moment that something goes wrong. Perhaps someone hacks the system (history shows that no system has ever been proven completely failsafe, and it is only as secure as those using it.) What happens if the money ISN'T moved back into the accounts? Perhaps even your account? What then? A survey several years ago revealed that the average person has less than $20.00 of currency in their pocket in this age of plastic money. Imagine the calamity that would occur across the country, when every bank transaction is denied! Millions of people at stores, gas stations, restaurants, utility companies and more the next morning - all suddenly find the only money they have left is in their pocket. What then? Martial Law? Think this can't ever happen in your country? Don't count on it. It just might be the way the economy will be destroyed overnight - all electronically. And those that do this dirty deed will remain invisible - hidden behind keyboards at a "secret location." Ted Twietmeyer http://www.data4science.net www.bookonmars.info tedtw@frontiernet.net
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#1. To: gengis gandhi (#0)
I remember trying to fill up a large pickup using a CC for someone I did some work for. The CC failed at the pump and apparently it was used earlier that day on a different vehicle and exceeded the auto draw amount. But the problem with CC payments at the pump is that at the time the card is read, the pump doesn't know how much gas will be pumped and it can't safely authorize pumping until it verifies the CC is good. So yes, I do think it assumes a lot more gas will be pumped than is usually attempted, and if you should try to exceed that amount the pump will shut off just as if you prepaid cash. Whether it drains the account or just lists it as a pending transaction I don't know. Then again, I've no idea if "pending" means the money is still in the account or not. Paying after pumping would certainly not require more funds be secured than you actually pump, but certainly there are only underhanded reasons why any overcharges would not be refunded immediately. I have heard it from a programer that used to work for a bank that checks are to be cleared from accounts in the order of highest value to lowest value. That way, if the account is overdrawn, they'll get the most bounced checks possible and collect more in bad check fees.
I'll be up all night posting responses to this article. You can avoid the long wait time for deposited checks clearing by depositing them through an ATM. The law says all funds deposited through an ATM must be available within 48 hours. Or is it 2 business days? Something like that. When I worked for a bank, the policy was as follows: On the day of deposit, they'd clear 10-20% of the amount of the check, and a little more each day until they were able to verify that the check was good, up to the maximum of 5 business days or whatever. Funds from checks actually FROM our bank were available immediately. Thus if you had deposited a large check from selling your house or whatever, you would immediately have enough money to buy groceries or pay your phone bill, but not to buy a new car. One way of circumventing this might be to require a cashier's check from Wells Fargo (or wherever you bank) at your house closing, rather than a cashier's check from wherever the buyer banks. When you opened your checking account, you received a copy of you bank's "Funds Availability Policy", which is written in legalese and in tiny print. There's a reason that they make it difficult to understand. Nevertheless, you can walk into your bank and sit down with a customer service person and they will explain the whole thing to you. 5-7 days is not really all that unreasonable, and gives the bank some extra time in case you're depositing a check from, say, Athens GA, into your bank in San Francisco. As a merchant, I take credit cards, and even those transactions take a couple of business days to reach my account.
The national nightmare has ended... Now begins two years of watching the Congress play "Kick the Gimp".
It's not removed from your account, it's removed from your "available balance". I'll bet you never knew that you had 4 seperate and distinct types of balances on your checking account, did you? They just place a "hold" on $XXX until they receive the real transaction, then add the remainder back into your available balance. Hotels also do this because at the time you check out, they still don't know if you've stolen any towels or trashed the room. It's one of the reasons I advise people to avoid debit cards at all costs, as your available balance on credit cards is usually a lot higher amount than you have in checking--you'll never even notice the "hold".
The national nightmare has ended... Now begins two years of watching the Congress play "Kick the Gimp".
That is true, count on it.
I figured you would show up here. Your info is very interesting, and I especially agree with avoiding debit cards. As I understand it, you assume all the risk and the banking system has zero liability, even if they helped perpetuate a fraud. I believe with my CC I have a max of $50 exposure to a stolen card, and likely zero if I give the bank a call as soon as I have reason to miss the card. With a DC, you'll have you account emptied.
Also were not CC rates supposed to plumment with the change in bankrupcy laws?? As the credit loan went from unsecured to secured?? We are known in the industry as "deadbeats" cause we pay off every month. And uually don't use em at all except for internet purchases. Green cash is our favored currency.
Well, no, the bank still assumes the risk, but it could be weeks before they put the money back in your account. With a CC, you can just cancel it and they'll send you a new one.
The national nightmare has ended... Now begins two years of watching the Congress play "Kick the Gimp".
Actually, I'm carrying a $9,000 balance on one of mine right now. It's locked in at 3.99% for the life of the loan, and I just can't get money that cheaply anywhere else. My banker loves me, but he still wants 9 percent.
The national nightmare has ended... Now begins two years of watching the Congress play "Kick the Gimp".
I remember there was some trouble with wire transfers 10-15 years back. In those days, a wire transfer would have to go through several "stops" to get to its destination, perhaps many stops. Wire transfers started taking longer and longer, and no one could figure out why. It turned out that every bank that was a "stop" along the way was holding the funds and gaining interest from them, if only for a few minutes.
The national nightmare has ended... Now begins two years of watching the Congress play "Kick the Gimp".
The only debt I have is a car loan gotten in 2005 at 3.14% fixed, for a flawless CHevy Express one ton 12 passanger van. It was a Avis rental w/ 24000 miles on it. Talked en down to $19,000, put $5000 down. Hard to rush to pay it off.
I have some student loan debt, about $6k worth, which is tax deductible. I've got a $116,000 mortgage against a $170,000 house, 30 years fixed, also tax-deductible. My cars are paid off. And then the locked-in cc debt. I feel OK about it. I'd like to get the student loans paid off, but again, I can't get money that cheaply anywhere else.
The national nightmare has ended... Now begins two years of watching the Congress play "Kick the Gimp".
#2. To: gengis gandhi (#0)
There is also the absurd "5-7 day wait for deposited checks to clear." In this era of computers and instant credits and debits, does it REALLY take that long? Certainly not. But they use your money for several days in investment accounts, reap the interest and then give you nothing other than the actual deposit amount.
#3. To: gengis gandhi (#0)
That's right - $20.00 of gasoline can result in an IMMEDIATE DEBIT from your account of up to $100.00.
#4. To: Neil McIver (#1)
have heard it from a programer that used to work for a bank that checks are to be cleared from accounts in the order of highest value to lowest value. That way, if the account is overdrawn, they'll get the most bounced checks possible and collect more in bad check f
#5. To: Indrid Cold (#3)
It's one of the reasons I advise people to avoid debit cards at all costs,
#6. To: Indrid Cold (#3)
#7. To: tom007 (#5)
As I understand it, you assume all the risk and the banking system has zero liability, even if they helped perpetuate a fraud.
#8. To: tom007 (#6)
We are known in the industry as "deadbeats" cause we pay off every month. And uually don't use em at all except for internet purchases. Green cash is our favored currency.
#9. To: gengis gandhi, tom007 (#0)
There is also the absurd "5-7 day wait for deposited checks to clear." In this era of computers and instant credits and debits, does it REALLY take that long? Certainly not. But they use your money for several days in investment accounts, reap the interest and then give you nothing other than the actual deposit amount.
#10. To: Indrid Cold (#8)
It's locked in at 3.99% for the life of the loan, and I just can't get money that cheaply anywhere else.
#11. To: tom007 (#10)
The only debt I have is a car loan gotten in 2005 at 3.14% fixed, for a flawless CHevy Express one ton 12 passanger van.
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