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Religion
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Title: 45,000-member evangelical group breaks ranks with Bush administration on torture
Source: Raw Story
URL Source: http://rawstory.com/news/2007/45000 ... l_group_breaks_ranks_0314.html
Published: Mar 14, 2007
Author: Raw Story
Post Date: 2007-03-14 18:42:23 by Zipporah
Keywords: None
Views: 466
Comments: 28

The National Association of Evangelicals, representing roughly 45,000 churches across the U.S. endorsed on Tuesday a declaration against torture put together by Evangelicals for Human Rights – an organization of 17 evangelical scholars – in a striking break from the Bush Administration's policy.

"Tragically, documented cases of torture and inhumane and cruel behaviour have occurred at various sites in the war on terror, and current law opens procedural loopholes for more to continue," the evangelicals' statement declares.

"There is a perception out there in the Middle East that we're willing to accept any action in order to fight this war against terrorism," the NAE's Rev. Rich Cizik told AP. "We are the conservatives – let there be no mistake on that – who wholeheartedly support the war against terror, but that does not mean by any means necessary."

"As American Christians, we are above all motivated by a desire that our nation's actions would be consistent with foundational Christian moral norms," the document adds. "We believe that a scrupulous commitment to human rights, among which is the right not to be tortured, is one of these Christian moral convictions."

Their full statement follows.

#

1. Introduction: From a Christian perspective, every human life is sacred. As evangelical Christians, recognition of this transcendent moral dignity is non-negotiable in every area of life, including our assessment of public policies. This commitment has been tested in the war on terror, as a public debate has occurred over the moral legitimacy of torture and of cruel, inhuman, and degrading treatment of detainees held by our nation in the current conflict. We write this declaration to affirm our support for detainee human rights and our opposition to any resort to torture.

2. Sanctity of Life: We ground our commitment to human rights in the core Christian theological conviction that each and every human life is sacred. This theme wends its way throughout the Scriptures: in Creation, Law, the Incarnation, Jesus' teaching and ministry, the Cross, and his Resurrection. Concern for the sanctity of life leads us to vigilant sensitivity to how human beings are treated and whether their God-given rights are being respected.

3. Human Rights: Human rights, which function to protect human dignity and the sanctity of life, cannot be cancelled and should not be overridden. Recognition of human rights creates obligations to act on behalf of others whose rights are being violated. Human rights place a shield around people who otherwise would find themselves at the mercy of those who are angry, aggrieved, or frightened. While human rights language can be misused, this demands its clarification rather than abandonment. Among the most significant human rights is the right to security of person, which includes the right not to be tortured.

4. Christian History and Human Rights: The concept of human rights is not a "secular" notion but instead finds expression in Christian sources long before the Enlightenment. More secularized versions of the human rights ethic which came to occupy such a large place in Western thought should be seen as derivative of earlier religious arguments. Twentieth century assaults on human rights by totalitarian states led to a renewal of "rights talk"after World War II. Most branches of the Christian tradition, including evangelicalism, now embrace a human rights ethic.

5. Ethical Implications: Everyone bears an obligation to act in ways that recognize human rights. This responsibility takes different forms at different levels. Churches must teach their members to think biblically about morally difficult and emotionally intense public issues such as this one. Our own government must honor its constitutional and moral responsibilities to respect and protect human rights. The United States historically has been a leader in supporting international human rights efforts, but our moral vision has blurred since 9/11. We need to regain our moral clarity.

6. Legal Structures: International law contains numerous clear and unequivocal bans on torture and cruel, inhuman, and degrading treatment. These bans are wise and right and must be embraced without reservation once again by our own government. Likewise, United States law and military doctrine has banned the resort to torture and cruel and degrading treatment. Tragically, documented acts of torture and of inhumane and cruel behavior have occurred at various sites in the U.S. war on terror, and current law opens procedural loopholes for more to continue. We commend the Pentagon's revised Army Field Manual for clearly banning such acts, and urge that this ban extend to every sector of the United States government without exception, including our intelligence agencies.

7. Concluding Recommendations: The abominable acts of 9/11, along with the continuing threat of terrorist attacks, create profound security challenges. However, these challenges must be met within a moral and legal framework consistent with our values and laws, among which is a commitment to human rights that we as evangelicals share with many others. In this light, we renounce the resort to torture and cruel, inhuman, and degrading treatment of detainees, call for the extension of procedural protections and human rights to all detainees, seek clear government-wide embrace of the Geneva Conventions, including those articles banning torture and cruel treatment of prisoners, and urge the reversal of any U.S. government law, policy, or practice that violates the moral standards outlined in this declaration.

#

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#3. To: Zipporah (#0)

All christians should be against torture! Hello! Do they forget the little old word 'persecution' and what it entailed? Or not returning evil for evil?

rowdee  posted on  2007-03-14   19:11:30 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

All christians should be against torture! Hello! Do they forget the little old word 'persecution' and what it entailed? Or not returning evil for evil?

it's one thing I can never understand ..how those who call themselves Christian could possibly be in favor of such things.

Zipporah  posted on  2007-03-14   19:16:21 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

All christians should be against torture! Hello! Do they forget the little old word 'persecution' and what it entailed? Or not returning evil for evil?

it's one thing I can never understand ..how those who call themselves Christian could possibly be in favor of such things.

Christianity is paganism, and the vast majority of those that call themselves Christians know not who they worship.

The Creator need not to gain our approval. It works the other way around. There are many gods, and this fact escapes Christians. For some unexplainable reason, they cannot see that it would be Satan (or some other god) which would be the one to bestow "blessings" on them in order to deceive them.

For example, a friend of mine (who proudly claims to be Christian) just the other day was talking about his new boat (a very nice boat). He said "I feel fortunate and thank God for allowing me to be the keeper (or caretaker - I can't remember his exact word) of it." Which is the more likely scenario - that the Creator see fit to make sure he has this new boat, or that Satan does; and thereby gets the "praise" for it???

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Sounds to me like there's gonna be a lot of disappointed souls. The requirement is "doing the WILL of the Father". So what exactly IS the WILL of the Father??? It's just a guess, but could it be to follow His commandments, statutes, and judgments (in other words His Laws)? After all, He did say that 172 different times in Scripture - so I'm guessing it's rather important to Him.

And just exactly WHAT are His Laws? Well, at the time the Messiah spoke these words not one word of New Testament had been written - therefore the "Law" was what was contained in the Old Testament. The Messiah also said in Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Aren't the words in the Old Testament part of the words that proceeded out of the mouth of God? What is it about the word every that Christians don't understand? If they're that illiterate, there are dictionaries available which they could use to look up what the word means. Again, at the time the Messiah spoke these words, not one word of New Testament had been written. But Christians don't believe this. They believe the New Testament supersedes and abolishes Old Testament (even though they can find proof in the New Testament itself that they are wrong on this issue in Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Again, at the time this was spoken by the Messiah, the Law was what was written in Old Testament - and as I look around I see the earth, so I assume it has NOT yet passed, NOR has all in Scripture yet been fulfilled [all being another of those words which Christians don't seem to understand the meaning of]). That's why they have no problem with eating bacon for breakfast, although eating pig was the subject of one of those "Laws" and was strictly prohibited by the Creator. And why do they believe this? Because their god (Satan or whoever) has deceived them with "goodies" like new boats, and gotten them to follow the lie.

So it shouldn't be surprising in the least that Christians (in the generic sense of the word) would be in favor of such things.

innieway  posted on  2007-03-15   10:53:12 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I wouldn't go so far as to say "Christianity is paganism', but I believe there are many who don't really understand who they worship, nor if they truly worship.

I agree it is we who need the Creator's approval, not He needing ours!

Rather than there being many gods, I would say there are many idols that mortals chase after, just as in olden days.

I believe that there will be many that think they are one of his, but who won't be.

While there were no New Testament writings when Christ was on this earth, He gave verbal commandments and instructions to follow. The Law couldn't save anyone; that is done by the grace of God through His Son's death and resurrection based on faith. And faith is more than just 'believing'--even Satan believed in Jesus Christ...that was why he was trying to get Him to give in to his desires out in the wilderness/desert.

I believe all Scripture is there for us to learn by or from, even if not directed to us, as christians, or outcalled ones, if you prefer, the Law.

I have a friend who told me several years ago not to bother with the Old Testament, that its just old history and stuff! I cringed, but being new in faith once again, I said nothing. If for no other reason, I should have said something along the lines, 'but history repeats itself'. And in the O.T., it certainly did--as witnessed by the cycle of repent, believe, stray, judgment, repent, believe, stray, judgment.

I think all too many believe seem to want to box God into a corner saying that 'He is love'. Sure He is love, but He is so much more. He's also a God of Wrath (yep, that's Biblical), but it is not all encompassing of what He is.

Re Matt 5:18, I believe that until Christ was crucified, buried, and risen, the Law was not abolished. But with those events occuring, grace has changed that. But the Law was never meant to save anyone.

I agree that not all Scripture has been fulfilled.

I've already touched on the hog/bacon.

EDIT: Geeze, Louise......I had mean to add that I am still learning, reading, studying. I may have something wrong, EXCEPT I am not wrong in faithing in Jesus Christ, my Lord and Saviour. I leave it to the Holy Spirit to move me to the right answers.

rowdee  posted on  2007-03-17   15:50:00 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Rather than there being many gods, I would say there are many idols that mortals chase after, just as in olden days.

I can see that point. But aren't these people making those idols their "god"? The Creator Himself made a distinction between the two in the first 2 Commandments:
Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. 4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth:

Would the Creator have had a need for the first commandment if other gods did not exist?

I believe that until Christ was crucified, buried, and risen, the Law was not abolished. But with those events occuring, grace has changed that.

Hmmmm... That word 'grace'... Not that Paul was the only Scriptural writer to use the word, (which is whose writings you are opining here) but somehow we tend to give it a different meaning when it concerns his writings... In the Old Testament Hebrew text it was the word chen; with the translation of "favor" as in "in God's favor"... In the New T, the Greek text is the word charis; with the translation of acceptable, benefit, or favor...

There is nothing magical about "grace". It isn't something that didn't exist before the crucifixion. To say "grace changed the law" coupled with your later statement of "I agree that not all Scripture has been fulfilled." is contradictory to the teaching of the Messiah in Matthew 5:18 when He told us "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." Like I said, I put more trust in what the Messiah had to say in the matter than what Paul had to say, especially given how confusing Paul's writings can appear to be sometimes - to the point of seeming to contradict ALL other Scriptural writings.

But the Law was never meant to save anyone.

Hmmmm... That word "save".... Seems to be a "Christian" concept. If by that we mean "getting to Heaven", then I would submit that indeed following His Law IS the proper thing to do towards achieving this goal. It was asked of us to follow His Laws 172 different times in Scripture, thus I would consider that it was quite important to Him, and would be doing His will... Had mankind followed His will all along, He would NOT have NEEDED to send the Messiah.

There are MANY that feel a "calling" to come "closer to God", but that doesn't mean much. MOST of them won't "cut the mustard".
Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few [are] chosen. Perhaps the reason "few are chosen" is because there are few that differ from the "norm" and do His will by following His Law (speculation)...

I am not wrong in faithing in Jesus Christ, my Lord and Saviour.

You must have been a "student" of the late Gene Scott... He was very sharp!!! It's a real shame the archives of his teachings are no longer available on the internet! I think Melissa (his much younger ex-stripper/pornstar wife)is the perpetrator behind this... (UH - what does that say about Gene??? He was quite big on Paul you know. I still liked him though, what little I got to learn from him before his death.)

innieway  posted on  2007-03-18   13:21:36 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

#21. To: innieway (#20)

I did and still do think quite highly of Dr. Scott.........it is he who shone the light to where I turned back to God.

And I think quite highly of his MUCH YOUNGER/EX whatever your words are......the archives were pulled because of what was being done in Gene's name, or lack of it. If she and the lawyers can be it straightened out, the goal is to have them back up.

Yes, I'm aware he was high on Paul. I think he was a perfect selection for the times.

Going back to Mrs. Scott....I presume you don't think very highly of Abraham or Moses or David?

You must not believe in repentance, or have I used another word that comes from the 'religious' word dictionary? God must be incapable of using people for His purposes? Jesus Christ was only here for perfect ones of the world? You're not alone--I'm pretty sure my Mother would say that Jesus wouldn't go in a bar either, or to a race track, or a dance hall, or a movie theatre, or the backseat of cars, or whatever/wherever.

My Lord scooped me up out of the gutter--just one of those ol sinners saved by grace. Oops, should I have said God's favor, or God's grace?

Have a good day.

rowdee  posted on  2007-03-18 15:47:25 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I can see that point. But aren't these people making those idols their "god"? The Creator Himself made a distinction between the two in the first 2 Commandments: Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. 4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth:

I would suggest that most people wouldn't consider or think that material things, i.e., boats, cars, stocks, bonds, $$$$$$$$$$$ are 'gods', whereas it would be easy to show them as idols.

I guess the choice of words, IMO, would depend on circumstances.

Anything that would remove one from focusing on God could be an idol, or god, if you prefer. That could even include family, which is hard for people to fathom in that family is highly prized by God.

rowdee  posted on  2007-03-18 20:23:40 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I think Melissa (his much younger ex-stripper/pornstar wife)is the perpetrator behind this... (UH - what does that say about Gene???

Did you happen to listen to him when he explained to the congregaton that she had been thoroughly background checked? He wasn't no dummy, or some dottering ol fool that fell in love/lust with some young chick.

Are you one of the sour grapers that wasn't selected to replace him, so a little bit of slur time is needed to assauge feelings, or something? You mention porn.........how do you know that? Been surfing the internet? Renting videos? Don't worry...that is only rhetorical. :)

rowdee  posted on  2007-03-18 20:29:57 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I still liked him though, what little I got to learn from him before his death.)

His programming is still on the internet 24/7; on satellite; on shortwave; and nationwide on some different channels, there's a PAX something or other in some places, and ION or something like that in other places.

It's not like his teachings are lost. With roughly 30 years on tape, I believe the vast majority of people would hear 'new' programming--his nitro pills and other teachings have remained the same over the years; some new examples or language or manuscripts or books to present facts/events/whatever.

And Pastor Scott, Melissa, is very well read and taught. She is quite a linguist; and I daresay has a better handle on languages than Doc did. She's very well educated in grammar, as well as having studied Fine Arts.

She did a presentation on Ephesus recently which was interesting in that she was able to present some of our art books showing various things about that city, providing insight into what Paul and the other apostles were up against as they tried to spread the gospel.

And she's determined that Doc's 30 years not be flushed down some rat hole.

rowdee  posted on  2007-03-18 20:33:55 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

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