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War, War, War
See other War, War, War Articles

Title: Idiocy in D.C., Progress in Baghdad
Source: www.weeklystandard.com
URL Source: http://www.weeklystandard.com/Conte ... icles/000/000/013/416urcoa.asp
Published: Mar 17, 2007
Author: William Kristol
Post Date: 2007-03-17 20:20:21 by BeAChooser
Keywords: None
Views: 3499
Comments: 224

Idiocy in D.C., Progress in Baghdad

The surge is working--that's what matters.

by William Kristol

03/26/2007, Volume 012, Issue 27

In order to preserve the cosmic harmony, it seems the gods insist that good news in one place be offset by misfortune elsewhere. It may well be that Gen. David Petraeus is going to lead us to victory in Iraq. He is certainly off to a good start. If the karmic price of success in Iraq is utter embarrassment for senior Bush officials in Washington, D.C.--well, in our judgment, the trade-off is worth it. The world will surely note our success or failure in Iraq. It will not long remember the gang that couldn't shoot straight at the Justice Department--or, for that matter, the antics of congressional Democrats--unless either so weakens the administration as to undercut our mission in Iraq.

Obviously, it's too early to say anything more definitive than that there are real signs of progress in Baghdad. The cocksure defeatism of war critics of two months ago, when the surge was announced, does seem to have been misplaced. The latest Iraq Update (pdf) by Kimberly Kagan summarizes the early effects of the new strategy backed up by, as yet, just one additional U.S. brigade deployed in theater (with more to be added in the coming weeks):

This "rolling surge" focuses forces on a handful of neighborhoods in Baghdad, and attempts to expand security out from those neighborhoods. . . . A big advantage of a "rolling surge" is that the population and the enemy sense the continuous pressure of ever-increasing forces. Iraqis have not seen such a prolonged and continuous planned increase of U.S. forces before. . . . The continued, increasing presence of U.S. forces appears to be having an important psychological, as well as practical, effect on the enemy and the people of Iraq. . . . [Meanwhile] in Ramadi, in the belt south of Baghdad stretching from Yusifiyah to Salman Pak, and northeast in Diyala Province, . . . U.S. and Iraqi forces have deprived al Qaeda of the initiative.

This sense of momentum is confirmed by many other reports in the media, and from Americans and Iraqis on the ground.

But back in Washington, congressional Democrats are still mired in the fall of 2006 and seem determined to be as irresponsible as ever. They're being beaten back--in part thanks to the fighting spirit of stalwart congressional Republicans. Last week, the Senate defeated a resolution that would have restricted the use of U.S. troops in Iraq and set March 31, 2008, as a target date for removing U.S. forces from combat.

On the same day, on a mostly party-line vote, the House Appropriations Committee reported out the Democratic version of a supplemental appropriations bill for the war. It was an odd piece of legislation--an appropriation to fight a war replete with provisions intended to ensure we lose it.

Here's what the Democratic legislation does, according to the Washington Post: "Under the House bill, the Iraqi government would have to meet strict benchmarks. . . . If by July 1 the president could not certify any progress, U.S. troops would begin leaving Iraq, to be out before the end of this year. If Bush did certify progress, the Iraqi government would have until Oct. 1 to meet the benchmarks, or troops would begin withdrawing then. In any case, withdrawals would have to begin by March 1, 2008, and conclude by the end of that summer."

Got that? Oh yes, in addition to the arbitrary timelines for the removal of troops, there's pork. As the Post explains, "Included in the legislation is a lot of money to help win support. The price tag exceeds the president's war request by $24 billion." Some of the extra money goes to bail out spinach farmers hurt by E. coli, to pay for peanut storage, and to provide additional office space for the lawmakers themselves. So much for an emergency war appropriations bill.

The legislation may collapse on the floor of the House this week. It certainly deserves to. Republicans can insist on a clean supplemental--no timelines to reassure the enemy that if they just hang on, we'll be gone before long, and no pork. They can win this fight--and if they do, combined with progress in Iraq, the lasting news from March 2007 will not be Bush administration haplessness; it will be that we are on the way to success in Iraq.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 145.

#16. To: BeAChooser, All (#0)

Obviously, it's too early to say anything more definitive than that there are real signs of progress in Baghdad.

Those ever-optimistic neocons!

When/if they bring the troops home, no matter the circumstances, we will be told we won the war, we were victorious.

The many paralells between our neocon's and the old Soviet leader's behaviors and mindset never cease to amaze me.

A truth and a lie make little difference, only agenda matters.

Diana  posted on  2007-03-17   21:42:55 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Diana, ALL (#16)

A truth and a lie make little difference, only agenda matters.

Says someone who accepts the lies when it comes to bombs in the WTC, no Flight 77, John Hopkins' claiming 655,000 Iraqi dead and DU is the scourge of the millennium.

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-03-17   21:50:45 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: BeAChooser (#20)

DU is the scourge of the millennium.

I simply said to ingest it causes health problems which is already known and well-documented.

Diana  posted on  2007-03-17   21:59:11 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Diana, ALL (#24)

I simply said to ingest it causes health problems

You've done more than that, Diana.

One need only read this thread

http://freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=47761&SC=1&EC=40#C1

to see that.

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-03-17   22:04:58 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: BeAChooser, Diana (#26)

So Ooser, are you again trying to pass off Depleted Uranium (you know, the stuff that's contaminated with highly radioactive Plutonium and Transuranics) as being safe as cotton candy?

FormerLurker  posted on  2007-03-17   22:19:41 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: FormerLurker, ALL (#34)

So Ooser, are you again trying to pass off Depleted Uranium (you know, the stuff that's contaminated with highly radioactive Plutonium and Transuranics) as being safe as cotton candy?

So, FormerLurker, are you again trying strawmen instead of facts?

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-03-17   22:24:58 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: BeAChooser (#37)

So, FormerLurker, are you again trying strawmen instead of facts?

And what strawman would that be BAC? You wish a link that describes the transuranics and how they got there?

DU Contaminated With Plutonium and Neptunium

From The quantitative analysis of depleted uranium isotopes in British, Canadian, and U.S. Gulf War veterans.

Weyman's is one of a few texts drawing attention to the extreme hazard of nuclear waste recycled into uranium alloys for manufacture of "conventional" weapons. The most hazardous additive are so-called transuranics, which are tens of thousands of times more radioactive than pure Depleted Uranium (DU, mostly Uranium 238, some U234 and 235) or pure, Non-Depleted Uranium (Virgin Uranium):

"The contents of recycled uranium are exponentially more radioactive than pure, Virgin Uranium and pure Depleted Uranium. This mix of materials contains “transuranic elements, fission products, spent fuel products and nuclear activation products” of plutonium 239, 241, 242, uranium-236, and neptunium (and a host of other elements...)

...Both independent and government radiological analyses of DU penetrators collected from DU[21] battlefields have detected trace amounts of transuranics, including plutonium-239 in the metal. Independent studies have detected traces of uranium-236 in veterans’ urine; adding a new dimension to the inhalational exposure risks to veterans from recycled uranium elements."

From US Dirty Bombs: Radioactive Shells Spiked with Plutonium

The discovery of uranium-236 contamination in spent munitions used against Kosovo revealed that the DU was not obtained before the nuclear reaction process. The Pentagon, NATO and the British Ministry of Defense have always downplayed the danger of DU saying it was "less radioactive than uranium ore." But at least half of the DU (250,000 metric tons) is now known to have been left over from the reprocessing of irradiated reactor fuel (done to extract weapons-grade plutonium), leaving it salted with fission products.(18)

"If it has been through a reactor, it does change our idea on depleted uranium," says Dr. Michael Repacholi of the World Health Organization, which has demanded to know how much plutonium is in DU ammunition. The U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) is still working on an answer to that question.

As early as January 2000, the DOE admitted that its DU munitions are spiked with plutonium, neptunium and americium – "transuranic" (heavier than uranium) fission wastes from inside nuclear reactors.(19) The health consequences here are fearsome: americium -- with a half-life of 7,300 years -- decays to plutonium-239, which is more radioactive than the original americium.

DU "contains a trace amount of plutonium," said the DOE’s Assistant Secretary David Michaels, who wrote to the Military Toxics Project's Tara Thornton January 20, 2000. "Recycled uranium, which came straight from one of our production sites, e.g. Hanford [Reservation, in Richland, Washington], would routinely contain transuranics at a very low level...." Michaels wrote. "We have initiated a project to characterize the level of transuranics in the various depleted uranium inventories," he said.

Dr. Von Hippel says in The Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists that plutonium-239 is 200,000 times more radioactive than U-238. Plutonium "is probably the most carcinogenic substance known," according to Dr. Arjun Makhijani, President of IEER, writing in his 1992 book Plutonium.

International Physicians Against DU

On the DU-Watch list on February 19th, 2001, renowned anti-nuclear activist Dr. Helen Caldicott wrote about the “impure” contents of DU in armour and bullets:

However there is another transuranic element like plutonium and as deadly called neptunium which is present in much higher concentrations [...] This material was mixed with contaminants that came from the reprocessed uranium from military reactors. The concentrations were as follows: uranium 236 – 188,000 parts per billion, technetium 99 – 270,000 parts per billion, neptunium 237 – 19,600 ppb, plutonium 238 – 0.0055 ppb and plutonium 239 – 124 ppb, americium – 0.43 ppb.

1 ppb is one part per billion, i.e. per one thousand million parts. Summing up, DU contains transuranics in the amount of almost 500,000 parts per billion, or 500 parts per million (ppm). The British nuclear physicist Sir Brian Flowers had grave concerns about plutonium in a 1976 UK Royal Commission report. Dr. Gordon Edwards from Project Ploughshares wrote in Plutonium, anyone? in the spring 1995 issue of The Ploughshares Monitor:

A person inhaling a few micrograms of plutonium [...] is likely to develop a fatal lung cancer 10 or 20 years after exposure, as some of the cells damaged by alpha radiation begin to multiply uncontrollably.

One microgram is one-millionth of a gram, that is, one milligram has one thousand micrograms. Dr. Edwards also wrote:

A person who inhales just a few milligrams of plutonium -- a barely visible speck -- will die in a matter of months due to massive fibrosis of the lungs as delicate lung tissues, bombarded by alpha radiation, develop scar tissue, choking off oxygen to the blood. Death follows from a kind of internal asphyxiation.

So if all “impure” specks of DU dust were ingested or inhaled, they alone could kill millions of people. The longer the deadly particles will linger unchecked for generations, the more chance that they would be taken in. Once inside the body, they work diligently at destroying cells and DNA.

FormerLurker  posted on  2007-03-17   22:41:14 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: FormerLurker, ALL (#41)

What's the problem, Formerlurker?

Give up on Rokke?

DU Contaminated With Plutonium and Neptunium

That link quote or link the views of any health physicists? No???

From The quantitative analysis of depleted uranium isotopes in British, Canadian, and U.S. Gulf War veterans.

http://hps.org/documents/dufactsheet.pdf

The Pentagon, NATO and the British Ministry of Defense have always downplayed the danger of DU saying it was "less radioactive than uranium ore."

IPPNW: http://www.ippnw.org/DUStatement.html "peer-reviewed studies of health effects from natural uranium exposure are weighted against the probability that DU exposure, in and of itself, is likely to have caused an increase in leukemias or other cancers in the relatively short time since it has been dispersed in the Balkans environment"

On the DU-Watch list on February 19th, 2001, renowned anti-nuclear activist Dr. Helen Caldicott wrote about the “impure” contents of DU in armour and bullets:

"World Health Organization fact sheet on Depleted Uranium (Fact Sheet No. 257, updated January 2003)"

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-03-17   23:29:00 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: BeAChooser (#55)

Give up on Rokke?

He's just one of many voices that speak the truth BAC. Something you wouldn't know much about.

FormerLurker  posted on  2007-03-17   23:42:48 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: FormerLurker, ALL (#60)

"Give up on Rokke?"

He's just one of many voices that speak the truth BAC.

Like telling audiences that he is a health physicist when, in fact, he is not?

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-03-18   0:49:10 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#89. To: FormerLurker (#65)

Just in case you don't know, BAC is on this kick that only "health physicists" are capable of knowing the effects of DU on humans.

Diana  posted on  2007-03-18   2:47:33 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#91. To: Diana (#89)

He was good enough for the U.S.Army to originate their decontamination procedure, but not good enough for WhatALoser to be credible. ok, I get it.

hammerdown  posted on  2007-03-18   3:13:41 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#110. To: hammerdown, Diana, ALL (#91)

He was good enough for the U.S.Army to originate their decontamination procedure

He didn't. He LIED about that. Rokke was a First Lieutenant assigned to the 12th Preventative Medical Detachment of the 330th Medical Brigade prior to and during the war. There were 66 people assigned to the unit; he was the most junior of 14 officers. He didn't originate anything.

He LIED about being a health physicist. His degree was in EDUCATION.

He lied about 30 of his associates dying from DU.

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-03-18   14:45:49 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#121. To: BeAChooser, robin, diana, SKYWALKER, HOUNDDAWG, former lurker (#110) (Edited)

he was the most junior of 14 officers

He LIED about being a health physicist. His degree was in EDUCATION.

Rokke was an officer, correct? How did he get to be an officer, BAC - did he pin badges on his chest all by his own lonesome?

You know I looked up more info about the hallowed profession of health physicists that you refer to and by golly I discovered that the biggest and best paying employers of this particular profession are government ( Department of Defense)and national laboratories, as well as government contractors. Now if I'm not mistaken that presents a bit of a conflict for the profession - ie. biting the hands that feed them.

http://hps.org/docume nts/2006_hps_salary_survey.pdf

Also,

"If you desire national recognition as a health physics professional, you may seek certification at either of two educational and experience levels. Certification may be obtained from the American Board of Health Physics (ABHP) and, for technicians, through the National Registry of Radiation Protection Technologists (NRRPT)."

http://hps.org/publicinfo rmation/hpcareers.html

Major Rokke may not have received official accreditation but experiencially he was a health physicist based on his employment with the US military and likely could have been accredited if he chose to pursue it.

Btw, I checked into Rokke's official military records - he has them posted on various sites - and as of 86/06/05 under the "Principal Duty" column, the US Military refers to him as NUC Med Sc Off and then on 91/03/25 he is referred to as "Theatre Health Physicist" and as of 92/09/15 he was referred to as EXECUTIVE OFFICER and as of 94/08/01 he is referred to as Project Director ( USACMLS) and from 95/11/30 to 98/11/20 he is referred to again as NUC MED SCIENCE OFF.

So go figure Dr. Rokke must have been held in high regard by the US Military - he got promotions. Also I read an official letter of introduction of 1LT Rokke to CPT's Armstrong, Brannon and Carter dated 12 Dec 90 and the letter seems to be quite flattering about specifically "the technical expertise" of 1 LT. Rokke, a 68B with the 12th PVNTMED. Once again - go figure - the US Military evidently didn't believe Dr. Rokke was a "liar" BAC as you are in the habit of referring to him, and of yes, in the same breath you pretend "to support our troops."

HAHAHA - Mr. ooozer ( it is Mister, yes? not 1st lieutenant or any other military designation, yes?)- anyways MISTER BAC, you have a strange way of showing support for our military when you name call one of them "liar." Nice.

P.S. Rokke's PhD thesis is entitled "Perceived Physics Concepts needed to teach Secondary Technology Education as General Education" - his thesis was over 350 pages long - I guess Rokke can't be too stupid about physics concepts.

And your PhD, BAC, is in what field?

scrapper2  posted on  2007-03-18   18:33:16 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#137. To: scrapper2, ALL (#121)

Btw, I checked into Rokke's official military records - he has them posted on various sites - and as of 86/06/05 under the "Principal Duty" column, the US Military refers to him as NUC Med Sc Off and then on 91/03/25 he is referred to as "Theatre Health Physicist" and as of 92/09/15 he was referred to as EXECUTIVE OFFICER and as of 94/08/01 he is referred to as Project Director ( USACMLS) and from 95/11/30 to 98/11/20 he is referred to again as NUC MED SCIENCE OFF.

By all means, link us to those records he's supposedly posted. By all means.

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-03-18   22:04:48 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#145. To: BeAChooser, diana, robin, HOUNDDAWG, Hammerdown, former lurker, AGAviator, Fred Mertz, SKYWALKER (#137) (Edited)

By all means, link us to those records he's supposedly posted. By all means.

BAC, do your own research. I did my research to satisfy my own curiosity. It doesn't take much finger power, BAC.

For instance, I found these directions/options right off wikipedia. Go from here, BAC. Tah tah.

"Rokke's actual military records and doctoral thesis have been posted to theveteran2@yahoogroups.com and teachnonviolence@yahoogroups.com.

Anyone can also request the military records using the Standard Form 180 and the process detailed at the Department of Veterans Affairs website http://www.archives.gov/veterans/military-service-records/. This site gives instructions to submit a SF 180 - Request Pertaining to Military Records.

Rokke's doctoral thesis is available in the University of Illinois Library at Champaign-Urbana."

I don't have Dr. Rokke's permission to post links to the pdfs in their entirety. But you can read the identical formal documents I read by following the instructions given in wikipedia...that is, if you want to learn the truth. I suspect you'd rather keep to the smear-untruths posted on the web per weekly standard/newsmax military desk jockey warriors.

Weren't you blubbering all over yourself a day ago telling Hammerdown how much you respected his son for serving in the military? But somehow you find it soooo easy to diminish the service of Dr. Rokke, who also served in the military - and why is that BAC? You respect only some military but not all military or you respect military all except whose last name begins with "R" or maybe you respect military only if they don't speak out against the instances when the DOD knowingly puts soldiers' health at risk re: DU exposure? What are your exceptions to the rule for "respect" you show the US military?

Btw, I'm not sure if you read this article - some cut and paste:

http://ww w.theage.com.au/articles/2003/04/17/1050172706047.html

"Scientists reject line on depleted uranium April 19 2003 By Paul Brown

London

Hundreds of tonnes of depleted uranium used by Britain and the US in Iraq should be removed to protect the civilian population, the Royal Society - Britain's premier scientific institution - says, contradicting Pentagon claims it is not necessary.

The society's statement fuels the controversy over the use of depleted uranium, which is an effective tank destroyer and bunker-buster but is believed by many scientists to cause cancers and other severe illnesses.

The society was incensed because the Pentagon had claimed it had the backing of the society in saying depleted uranium was not dangerous.

In fact, the society said, both soldiers and civilians were in short and long- term danger.

Depleted uranium is left over after uranium is enriched for use in nuclear reactors and after reprocessing spent nuclear fuel. Thousands of tonnes of it are stored in the US and Britain.

Because it is effectively free and 20 per cent heavier than steel, the military experimented with it and discovered it could penetrate steel and concrete much more easily than convential weapons.

It was adopted as a standard weapon in the first Gulf War despite its radioactive content and toxic effects. It was used again in the Balkans and Afghanistan by the US.

Depleted uranium has been suspected by many campaigners of causing the unexplained cancers among Iraqis, particularly children, since the previous Gulf War. Chemicals released in the atmosphere during bombing could equally be to blame.

The UN Environment Program has been tracking the use of depleted uranium in the Balkans and found it leaching into the water table.

It has recommended the decontamination of buildings where depleted uranium dust is present.

Professor Brian Spratt, chairman of the Royal Society working group on depleted uranium, said a recent study by the society had found that the soil around the impact sites of depleted uranium penetrators might be heavily contaminated.

"We recommend that fragments of depleted uranium penetrators should be removed, and areas of contamination should be identified and, where necessary, made safe," he said.

scrapper2  posted on  2007-03-18   23:05:28 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 145.

#157. To: scrapper2, BeAChooser, FormerLurker (#145)

This happened near the Amsterdam airport:

On 4th October 1992, at about 6.30 in the evening, El Al flight LY 1862, a Boeing 747-200 crashed into a block of 12-story flats in Bijlmer, on the outskirts of Amsterdam, killing its crew of three, a "non-revenue passenger", and at least 43 people on the ground. Because some of the people in Bijlmer were migrants, who were without documents, the full number of victims remains unknown.

According to Seán MacCárthaigh, of the Irish Times, who arrived shortly after the crash,"The El Al plane had scythed through the top five stories of two buildings; about 40 flats took a direct hit. Then a huge fireball rolled through the complex and apartment after apartment popped into flames.... A giant cloud of choking white smoke engulfed the area."

What this choking smoke consisted of was a mystery. From day one, right up until 1998, the Israeli government insisted that there was "no dangerous material on that plane. Israel has nothing to hide." This did not however explain why, after the crash, over 850 Bijlmer survivors - residents, police and rescue workers - sought treatment for a host of maladies including fatigue, breathing problems, hair loss, neurological ailments, mental confusion, depression, encephalomyelitis and disabling joint pains.

Over several years Dutch newspapers and citizens groups searched for further details in the face of what seemed evidently to be a series of cover ups. Then, on October 4, 1998, the Dutch newspaper, the NRC Handelsblad, published a leaked copy of a page from the plane's cargo documentation. According to the leaked paperwork, Flight 1862 was carrying 10 tons of chemicals, including hydrofluoric acid, isopro-panol and dimethyl methylphosphonate (DMMP) - three of the four chemicals used in the production of sarin nerve gas.

The DMMP, supplied by Solkatronic Chemicals Inc. of Morrisville, Pennsylvania, was destined for the Israeli Institute for Biological Research (IIBR) in Nes Ziona, outside of Tel Aviv. IIBR is the Israeli military and intelligence community's front organization for the development, testing and production of chemical and biological weapons.

Once again there were lies and a cover up. Israel maintained that the chemicals were to be used to test gas masks - but only a few grams would be needed for such tests. In fact, there were enough chemicals on Flight 1862 to produce 270 kilos of sarin - sufficient to kill the entire population of a major world city.

There was more - once again with lies from the powers that be. In the months following the crash, the Dutch citizens' group Onderzoeksgrep Vliegramp Bijlmermeer (OVB) reported how, "in addition to the cocktail of toxic chemicals that came free during the disaster," traces of uranium, zirconium and lanthanum had turned up in soil samples taken from the crash. Worse, there were traces of uranium in faeces samples taken from survivors.

One year after the crash, the Laka Foundation, an independent Dutch nuclear research group, revealed that the El Al jet - like all Boeing 747s - carried 1,500 kg of depleted uranium (DU) onboard in the form of counterweights in the tail fins, horizontal stabilizers and wings. DU is an extremely dense metallic by-product of the production of U235, the fissionable uranium isotope used to manufacture nuclear weapons and fuel. It contains residual amounts of radioactive U235, the less radioactive U238 and trace amounts of U236.

A Boeing document has acknowledged that swallowing or breathing DU dust can cause "a significant and long-lasting irradiation of internal tissue." DU has been implicated as a cause of Gulf War Symptom - a series of physical and mental debilities remarkably similar to the symptoms reported by the Bijlmer survivors - as a result of the use of depleted uranium shells in that conflict. Large areas of Iraq have also been contaminated and large numbers of children have died with cancers. DU oxidizes at temperatures as low as 350 C. The fire at Bijlmer, fuelled from the airplane itself, reached 1100-1400 C.

In response to concerns the Dutch government issued a report which assured the public that the counterweights had remained intact and never posed a threat to health. However, LAKA published its own findings that only 163 kg of the 430 kg of depleted uranium on the plane had been recovered. The shock from this rebuttal triggered the demand for a full Dutch Parliamentary inquiry.

The Bijlmer hearings were chaired by Christian Democratic opposition deputy Theo Meijer and was televised weekly. A phone line for psychological counselling was necessary for many viewers.

At the committee hearings it came out that an El Al cargo flight between New York and Tel Aviv touched down every Sunday evening. The flights were never displayed on arrival monitors and the documentation for the flight was processed in a special unmarked room. According to the testimony of the Dutch Attorney General, Vrakking, the El Al security detachment at Schiphol was a branch of Mossad, the Israeli secret service. A Dutch Air Guidance Organization employee told the hearing that the "policy" since 1973 was to keep quiet about all El Al activities. Schiphol workers testified that El Al planes were never inspected by customs or the Dutch Flight Safety Board. Maintenance workers were uncomfortable about clearing Flight 1862 for take off as there were many "carry over items" on the maintenance sheet that were uncorrected - but their supervisors had ordered them to clear it for take off.

The Dutch press reported that security officials had been waving Israeli air cargo through Schiphol since the 1950s. Shipping the kinds of chemicals aboard LY1862 ordinarily would be a violation of the Chemical Weapons Treaty (which the US has signed). By refueling the jets at commercial, rather than NATO airfields, a way was found around the military treaties. "Schiphol has become a hub for secret weapons transfers," according to Henk van der Belt, an investigator working on behalf of the Bijlmer survivors. "Dutch authorities have no jurisdiction over Israeli activities at the airport."

A Televisieproduktie Amsterdam (TVA) report identified Schiphol as one of several European airports that allows El Al to transfer cargo without supervision. TVA claimed that Belgian politicians now fear that "a disaster like the crash in Holland in 1992 is possible at [Belgium's] Zaaventem. This airport is, like Schiphol, under control by the secret police of Israel."

Diana  posted on  2007-03-19 02:08:04 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#159. To: scrapper2 (#145)

BAC, do your own research. I did my research to satisfy my own curiosity. It doesn't take much finger power, BAC.

Trolling 101:

When confronted by superior facts and logic, demand more proof.

AGAviator  posted on  2007-03-19 09:25:39 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#160. To: scrapper2, ALL (#145)

I found these directions/options right off wikipedia.

Yes, let's see what Wikipedia has to say about Doug Rokke:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doug_Rokke Major Douglas Lind Rokke PhD Education, University of Illinois, 1992, served in the Vietnam War in the USAF as an avionics technician. He then served in the Illinois National Guard where he was decorated for saving the lives of accident victims he found alongside the road on his way home from a monthly drill. First Lieutenant Douglas Rokke was activated for the Gulf War and served predominantly in Riyadh. After the Gulf War, he was attached to a team headed by a senior Army civilian employee that was involved in assessing armored vehicles hit by depleted uranium armored penetrators. After he completed his doctoral degree, he was activated to serve a voluntary active duty tour at the US Army Chemical School, Fort McClellan, Alabama, where he was the liaison officer with a contractor who was preparing training materials about Depleted Uranium. As a GS-13 civilian employee, Rokke directed instruction at this school. He was terminated from that employment while on probation. Rokke commonly refers to this period of work as his being the Director of the Army's depleted uranium program. Rokke has exaggerated that as well as most other aspects of his involvement with the Army and Depleted Uranium.

Guess you missed that ... huh?

I don't have Dr. Rokke's permission to post links to the pdfs in their entirety.

Do you need permission given that they've been posted on a public forum?

And did the person who posted them have his permission?

Or are you just saying Rokke posted them? You know, the guy who dishonestly claimed he was a "health physicist" to uncounted anti-DU groups?

Go ahead, scrapper. Post the pdf's that Rokke claims are his official records.

By the way, did you see the material I posted from the Australian government website that quote official communications with the US government and Rokke's military commanders ... stating that most of Rokke claims about his background in the military are outright false? Let me post some of it again:

********

Yet another Australian Government document you folks will ignore:

HON FRANK HOUGH (Agricultural) [5.39 pm]: In early July I was made aware of a brochure that was being circulated in Lancelin by the Greens (WA), which was titled “Depleted Uranium: The Silent Killer”. I listened to the Liam Bartlett show on the radio and heard people say that their property values had halved because the Americans were using bombs with uranium tips in Lancelin, which would contaminate the water. I obtained a copy of the brochure issued by Hon Dee Margetts. It states that Dr Doug Rokke, a United States expert on depleted uranium, visited Lancelin on 6 July 2003. It also states, in part -

Dr Rokke was a major in the US Army and former head of the Pentagon’s Depleted Uranium Project, responsible for training US personnel in preparation for Gulf War I in terms of their exposure to environmental hazards including radiation. Dr Rokke holds a PhD in Philosophy and a Master of Science.

I was rather annoyed when I read that. It was obviously based on information the member received and not from either Senator Robert Hill or the United States Consul General in Perth, Oscar De Soto. I took the time to write to Oscar De Soto and Senator Robert Hill. My letter to the Consul General states, in part -

I am writing to seek the Consulates assurance that the United States of America has not used and will not use Depleted Uranium (DU) munitions at the Lancelin Defence Training Area (LTDA) in Western Australia.

I received a reply from the Consul General this morning. It states -

Thank you for your letter dated July 17 regarding Depleted Uranium . . .

Firstly, let me make clear that the United States, as a matter of policy and practicality, does not use DU munitions at the Australian Lancelin Defence Forces range. DU munitions are seldom used in training anywhere because they are too costly to expend for training. Furthermore, the U.S. military uses the Lancelin Range only infrequently, and only by invitation of the Australian Government. When U.S. forces use the range, it is always jointly with Australia and in compliance with all Australian laws and environmental rules. The U.S. military utilizes Australian environmentalist planners on each and every use.

Secondly, Dr. Doug Rokke has made exaggerated and untrue claims during his visit to Australia. Dr. Rokke has exaggerated his background. He is not, and has never been “the foremost U.S. military expert on DU,” as he was described in the June 18th Canberra Times. He is not a medical doctor. His Ph.D is in education. He earned a Ph.D in Science/Technology Education from the University of Illinois, Urbana in 1992.

If he was finishing his PhD in 1992 he was certainly not, as Hon Dee Margetts claims, running the Gulf War as a major in 1991. He was still at university. The letter continues -

Dr. Rokke did not join the U.S. as a medical officer in 1967, as reported in the Canberra Times. He joined as an airman, an avionics technician. According to the Department of Defense, Dr. Rokke was not “in charge of cleaning up radioactive waste” after the 1991 Gulf War, as was described in a June 18th ABC broadcast. As a First Lieutenant, Dr. Rokke was assigned to the 12th Preventative Medical Detachment of the 330th Medical Brigade prior to and during the war. There were 66 people assigned to the unit; he was the most junior of 14 officers.

He was one level from being a gopher! He was a junior lieutenant. That is a long way from being a major. They have different pips. He may not have been able to distinguish them! The letter continues -

Initially, he was responsible for conducting nuclear, biological and chemical training.

Hon Peter Foss: He sounds like a fraud.

Hon FRANK HOUGH: He does. Others sell snake oil. They get carried away. What is worse is that they get mixed up with the Greens (WA) and try to pull the wool over our eyes. I know I could go to America and become Surgeon General and an honorary brigadier and take people for a ride. The people in Lancelin should not be subject to charlatans who tell them their water is full of depleted uranium. The letter from the Consul General concludes -

In closing, let me reiterate that the U.S. military does not use DU munitions in Lancelin. I urge you to share this information with your constituents and other Members of Parliament.

. . .

Yours sincerely
Oscar De Soto
Consul General of the
United States of America

I spoke to the consulate office this morning and I was guaranteed the information is very accurate. The consulate probably has a system linked with the Central Intelligence Agency to pull the records. The details of the letter were not made up overnight. The Consul General took three and a half weeks to research the situation. He was quite clear in determining the facts. Another part of the letter states -

While Dr. Rokke presents himself as an expert, this does not make it so. His role in the 1991 Gulf War, at the US Army Chemical School, and his educational background do not qualify him as an expert on the purported health effects of depleted uranium. . . . It is important to make a clear-cut distinction between Dr. Rokke’s technical qualifications and those of certified medical health physicists who are qualified to assess the medical implications of radiation exposures.

The member should apologise to the people of Lancelin. She has been badly misinformed and badly misinformed them. She should write to the Consul General and apologise sincerely for having a go at the US Navy. We have enough problems with trying to establish relationships with other countries without having to deal with this type of rubbish. If she is not prepared to do that, she should enjoy life as something other than a parliamentarian. She is abdicating her responsibilities by putting out this type of rubbish and putting fear in the hearts of people who live in the broader community. This is one of the ploys that people work through.

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BeAChooser  posted on  2007-03-19 10:32:13 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 145.

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