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War, War, War
See other War, War, War Articles

Title: Idiocy in D.C., Progress in Baghdad
Source: www.weeklystandard.com
URL Source: http://www.weeklystandard.com/Conte ... icles/000/000/013/416urcoa.asp
Published: Mar 17, 2007
Author: William Kristol
Post Date: 2007-03-17 20:20:21 by BeAChooser
Keywords: None
Views: 3514
Comments: 224

Idiocy in D.C., Progress in Baghdad

The surge is working--that's what matters.

by William Kristol

03/26/2007, Volume 012, Issue 27

In order to preserve the cosmic harmony, it seems the gods insist that good news in one place be offset by misfortune elsewhere. It may well be that Gen. David Petraeus is going to lead us to victory in Iraq. He is certainly off to a good start. If the karmic price of success in Iraq is utter embarrassment for senior Bush officials in Washington, D.C.--well, in our judgment, the trade-off is worth it. The world will surely note our success or failure in Iraq. It will not long remember the gang that couldn't shoot straight at the Justice Department--or, for that matter, the antics of congressional Democrats--unless either so weakens the administration as to undercut our mission in Iraq.

Obviously, it's too early to say anything more definitive than that there are real signs of progress in Baghdad. The cocksure defeatism of war critics of two months ago, when the surge was announced, does seem to have been misplaced. The latest Iraq Update (pdf) by Kimberly Kagan summarizes the early effects of the new strategy backed up by, as yet, just one additional U.S. brigade deployed in theater (with more to be added in the coming weeks):

This "rolling surge" focuses forces on a handful of neighborhoods in Baghdad, and attempts to expand security out from those neighborhoods. . . . A big advantage of a "rolling surge" is that the population and the enemy sense the continuous pressure of ever-increasing forces. Iraqis have not seen such a prolonged and continuous planned increase of U.S. forces before. . . . The continued, increasing presence of U.S. forces appears to be having an important psychological, as well as practical, effect on the enemy and the people of Iraq. . . . [Meanwhile] in Ramadi, in the belt south of Baghdad stretching from Yusifiyah to Salman Pak, and northeast in Diyala Province, . . . U.S. and Iraqi forces have deprived al Qaeda of the initiative.

This sense of momentum is confirmed by many other reports in the media, and from Americans and Iraqis on the ground.

But back in Washington, congressional Democrats are still mired in the fall of 2006 and seem determined to be as irresponsible as ever. They're being beaten back--in part thanks to the fighting spirit of stalwart congressional Republicans. Last week, the Senate defeated a resolution that would have restricted the use of U.S. troops in Iraq and set March 31, 2008, as a target date for removing U.S. forces from combat.

On the same day, on a mostly party-line vote, the House Appropriations Committee reported out the Democratic version of a supplemental appropriations bill for the war. It was an odd piece of legislation--an appropriation to fight a war replete with provisions intended to ensure we lose it.

Here's what the Democratic legislation does, according to the Washington Post: "Under the House bill, the Iraqi government would have to meet strict benchmarks. . . . If by July 1 the president could not certify any progress, U.S. troops would begin leaving Iraq, to be out before the end of this year. If Bush did certify progress, the Iraqi government would have until Oct. 1 to meet the benchmarks, or troops would begin withdrawing then. In any case, withdrawals would have to begin by March 1, 2008, and conclude by the end of that summer."

Got that? Oh yes, in addition to the arbitrary timelines for the removal of troops, there's pork. As the Post explains, "Included in the legislation is a lot of money to help win support. The price tag exceeds the president's war request by $24 billion." Some of the extra money goes to bail out spinach farmers hurt by E. coli, to pay for peanut storage, and to provide additional office space for the lawmakers themselves. So much for an emergency war appropriations bill.

The legislation may collapse on the floor of the House this week. It certainly deserves to. Republicans can insist on a clean supplemental--no timelines to reassure the enemy that if they just hang on, we'll be gone before long, and no pork. They can win this fight--and if they do, combined with progress in Iraq, the lasting news from March 2007 will not be Bush administration haplessness; it will be that we are on the way to success in Iraq.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 217.

#3. To: BeAChooser (#0)

Weekly Standard...

Proudly bearing the neozio war mongering standard.

BAC - come on - weekly standard? I would have hoped even you might have matured to reading a news source less TelAviv inspired...

scrapper2  posted on  2007-03-17   21:25:31 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: scrapper2, ALL (#3)

Proudly bearing the neozio war mongering standard.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070314/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_baghdad_security "Bomb deaths have gone down 30 percent in Baghdad since the U.S.-led security crackdown began a month ago. Execution-style slayings are down by nearly half. The once frequent sound of weapons has been reduced to episodic, and downtown shoppers have returned to outdoor markets — favored targets of car bombers."

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-03-17   21:38:57 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: BeAChooser (#11)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070314/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_baghdad_security

From the same yahoo news article you quoted:

But while many Iraqis are encouraged, they remain skeptical how long the relative calm will last. Each bombing renews fears that the horror is returning. Shiite militias and Sunni insurgents are still around, perhaps just laying low or hiding outside the city until the operation is over.

U.S. military officials, burned before by overly optimistic forecasts, have been cautious about declaring the operation a success. Another reason it seems premature: only two of the five U.S. brigades earmarked for the mission are in the streets, and the full compliment of American reinforcements is not due until late May.

In the months before the security operation began Feb. 14, police were finding dozens of bodies each day in the capital — victims of Sunni and Shiite death squads. Last December, more than 200 bodies were found each week — with the figure spiking above 300 in some weeks, according to police reports compiled by The Associated Press.

Since the crackdown began, weekly totals have dropped to about 80 — hardly an acceptable figure but clearly a sign that death squads are no longer as active as they were in the final months of last year.

In the 27 days leading up to the operation, 528 people were killed in bombings around the capital, according to AP figures. In the first 27 days of the operation, the bombing death toll stood at 370 — a drop of about 30 percent.

Figures alone won't tell the story. In Vietnam, generals kept pointing to enemy body counts to promote a picture of success even when many U.S. soldiers and civilian officials realized the effort was doomed.

True success will be when Iraqis themselves begin to feel safe and gain confidence in their government and security forces. Only then can the economy, long on its heels and with unemployment estimated between 25 and 40 percent, rebound and start providing jobs and a future for Baghdad's people.

A long-term solution also must deal with the militias that sprang up after the ouster of Saddam Hussein.

Much of the relative calm may be due to a decision by Shiite cleric Muqtada al- Sadr to remove his armed militiamen, known as the Mahdi Army, from the streets. Al-Maliki warned the young cleric that he could not protect them from the Americans during the offensive.

U.S. troops rolled into the Mahdi stronghold of Sadr City on March 4 without firing a shot — a radical change from street battles there in 2004.

Some Mahdi Army fighters may have left the city. But Iraqis who live in Shiite neighborhoods say many others are still around, collecting protection money from shopkeepers and keeping tabs on people — albeit without their guns.

When American patrols pass by, Mahdi members step into shops or disappear into crowds until the U.S. troops are gone. Sunni militants remain in some areas of the city too, although last year's sectarian bloodletting drove many Sunnis from their traditional neighborhoods, depriving extremists of a support network.

If militants from both sects are indeed lying low, that suggests they may have adopted a strategy of waiting until the security operation is over, then re- emerging to fight each other for control of the capital.

But positive trends in Iraq have proven hard to sustain. Hopes for reconciliation are quickly shattered. There have been a series of failed security initiatives.

With so many uncertainties, public opinion appears mixed.

"We gain nothing from this government. No change," said Abu Zeinab, a Shiite father of two in Baghdad's Hurriyah district. "Today is like yesterday. What is the difference?"

scrapper2  posted on  2007-03-17   21:48:51 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: scrapper2, ALL (#19)

But while many Iraqis are encouraged, they remain skeptical how long the relative calm will last. Each bombing renews fears that the horror is returning. Shiite militias and Sunni insurgents are still around, perhaps just laying low or hiding outside the city until the operation is over.

If the media had reported WW2 the way they've reported this war, we'd have lost WW2.

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-03-17   21:52:16 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: BeAChooser (#21) (Edited)

If the media had reported WW2 the way they've reported this war, we'd have lost WW2.

We did lose WWII. We allowed Communism to prevail, which contributed to far greater numbers of deaths than Fascism.

In fact the event which triggered the start of WW II - the Germans invading Poland - speaks to our defeat - without a blink of an eye the communists claimed Poland and other Eastern European nations. The particularly sad thing about Poland was that its Christian citizens were killed by the Naziis in the same numbers as the Jews but to this day the World Jewish Congress is loathe to acknowledge that fact. "As historian Martin Gilbert pointed out, of the first 611 people who died at Auschwitz, 591 were Poles and 20 were Jews." The Poles were largely responsible for deciphering Enigma. Yet we let Stalin take Poland and its Eastern European brethren as part of his "spoils."

http://www.holocaustforgott en.com/Lucaire.htm

"We" hardly talk about that tragic result of WW II. Israel was born and Poland and other Eastern European nations were thrown to the communist wolves. Oh well.

Substitute the words "gulag" for "concentration camp" and "Christian" for Jews" and you get the picture.

Stalin and the communists walked away the big winners at the end of WW II.

scrapper2  posted on  2007-03-17   22:34:03 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#85. To: scrapper2 (#39)

Substitute the words "gulag" for "concentration camp" and "Christian" for Jews" and you get the picture.

Stalin and the communists walked away the big winners at the end of WW II.

Brilliant post scrapper.

All too true.

Diana  posted on  2007-03-18   2:23:29 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#103. To: Diana, scrapper2, ALL (#85)

Stalin and the communists walked away the big winners at the end of WW II.

Brilliant post scrapper.

You think so? Is the Soviet Union still around?

And I'm curious. If we'd not gotten involved in WW2, who do you two think would have walked away the big winners?

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-03-18   14:09:09 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#125. To: BeAChooser (#103)

And I'm curious. If we'd not gotten involved in WW2, who do you two think would have walked away the big winners?

Everyone.

Nazi Germany would have been destroyed regardless, and the Soviet Union would not have become strengthened, and millions of Eastern Europeans, Baltics peoples and additional Russians would not have died. IMO.

Japan would have imploded in time as well.

Diana  posted on  2007-03-18   19:16:58 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#127. To: Diana, BeAChooser (#125)

BeAChooser: And I'm curious. If we'd not gotten involved in WW2, who do you two think would have walked away the big winners?

diana: Everyone.

Nazi Germany would have been destroyed regardless, and the Soviet Union would not have become strengthened, and millions of Eastern Europeans, Baltics peoples and additional Russians would not have died. IMO.

Japan would have imploded in time as well.

Exactly, diana. Thanks for pitching in - I had lost track of BAC challenging me on this.

Russia lost 17-20 Million soldiers ( prodded onwards by the NKVD) fighting the Germans. In the course of battles, Russia ended up destroying 3/4 of the German ground forces. We stepped in after Hitler made his strategic error - Hitler's defeat was determined as soon as he decided to attack Russia.

The Brits survived the Battle of Britain. The Brits were winning on the African front.

America came in for clean up duty and to fight the Japanese. We lost approx. 300,000 men in WW II. Britain lost 600,000. Russia lost 17-20 Million. Can you imagine such numbers of losses?

There's no doubt that Stalin and his communist government would have fallen right after the Russian-Eastern European fighters changed their focus from defeating the Germans to bringing down Uncle Joe and hanging him in Red Square along with his NKVD officers.

Churchill and FDR gave communism an extension on life. Nothing much is written about the Eastern European lives that were condemned to servitude under communism generally or immediate death in the Soviet gulag camps. Oh well...

scrapper2  posted on  2007-03-18   20:55:45 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#152. To: scrapper2 (#127)

America came in for clean up duty and to fight the Japanese. We lost approx. 300,000 men in WW II. Britain lost 600,000. Russia lost 17-20 Million. Can you imagine such numbers of losses?

It is amazing the number of people who died from wars and communism during the 20th century!

Diana  posted on  2007-03-19   0:50:00 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#153. To: All (#152)

And other totalitarian govts such as nazis I should add.

Diana  posted on  2007-03-19   0:51:40 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#154. To: Diana, BeAChooser (#153)

And other totalitarian govts such as nazis I should add.

Hitler was a small time evil as compared to Uncle Joe and his communist compadres, who were the bigtime genociders. The communists took blood letting very seriously. There's good reason for why they were associated with the color red.

What the Naziis did in the concentration camps was unforgiveable but the communists murdered many many many times what Hitler did - and oddly enough there never were any Nuremberg style Trials held to bring them to justice.

Nazii-fixated folks like BAC probably view Catholics and Orthodox Christians as being disposable, forgettable, not special so why bother faulting Uncle Joe and the communists? Uncle Joe was "our" ally after all as well as his swell NKVD who kept the Russians and Eastern Europeans marching forward, never to turn back. That's jolly good Russian nationalism, BAC would claim.

scrapper2  posted on  2007-03-19   1:09:19 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#167. To: scrapper2, diana, ALL (#154)

Nazii-fixated folks like BAC probably view Catholics and Orthodox Christians as being disposable, forgettable, not special so why bother faulting Uncle Joe and the communists?

Oh please. Have you nothing but strawmen to offer? The ISSUE is whether the Germans would have defeated the Soviets had the US not helped them in WW2. The ISSUE is what would the world look like today had that happened. Keep in mind that the Germans were only a little behind America in the race for the bomb and that race was given urgency here in the US primarly because we were at war with Germany. Had that not been the case, Germany might well have beaten the US to its development. And you may not know this but at the end of 1945, the Germans had a bomber that could fly to the US and return. That bomber could easily have carried nuclear weapons.

Like I said to you folks. What then?

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-03-19   11:30:19 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#200. To: BeAChooser, diana (#167)

scrapper: Nazii-fixated folks like BAC probably view Catholics and Orthodox Christians as being disposable, forgettable, not special so why bother faulting Uncle Joe and the communists?

BAC: Oh please. Have you nothing but strawmen to offer? The ISSUE is whether the Germans would have defeated the Soviets had the US not helped them in WW2. The ISSUE is what would the world look like today had that happened. Keep in mind that the Germans were only a little behind America in the race for the bomb and that race was given urgency here in the US primarly because we were at war with Germany. Had that not been the case, Germany might well have beaten the US to its development. And you may not know this but at the end of 1945, the Germans had a bomber that could fly to the US and return. That bomber could easily have carried nuclear weapons.

Like I said to you folks. What then?

What's the strawman? You make perfectly clear that you could give 2 hoots about the Eastern Europeans that we doomed to communism. It's only Hitler who is your focus and why is that? In sheer numbers of deaths he caused Hitler was an amateur compared to Stalin. And yet you see no problem with our aiding the worst butcher in modern history. Why is that, BAC?

Hitler was no threat to America. Say what you will about Hitler and the bomb - he was several years from that. We had the bomb and we used the bomb. Hitler didn't. So why are you yammering about the dannger of Hitler to the world. Why don't you ask the Japanese about the dangers of a nation having a bomb and using it irresponsibly. And don't bother spamming me with it was the only way to stop the Japanese from fighting any longer. I provided you with a link to US Government documents recently released the showed the opposite to be true.

Here's where your worries about Hitler and the bomb belong - in the trash heap of history like where this historian's book went, evidently - your claim and his about Hitler being minutes away from developing the bomb are laughable.

http:// www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,346293,00.html

March 14, 2005

Berlin historian Rainer Karlsch claims that the Nazis conducted three nuclear weapons tests in 1944 and 1945. But he has no proof to back up his theories.

The United States needed 125,000 people, including six future Nobel Prize winners, to develop the atomic bombs that exploded over Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1945. The uranium enrichment facility alone, including its security zone, was the size of the western German city of Frankfurt. Dubbed the Manhattan project, the quest ultimately cost the equivalent of about $30 billion.

In his new book, "Hitler's Bomb," Berlin historian Rainer Karlsch claims Nazi Germany almost achieved similar results with only a handful of physicists and a fraction of the budget. The author writes that German physicists and members of the military conducted three nuclear weapons tests shortly before the end of World War II, one on the German island of Ruegen in the fall of 1944 and two in the eastern German state of Thuringia in March 1945. The tests, writes Karlsch, claimed up to 700 lives.

If these theories were accurate, history would have history would have to be rewritten. Ever since the Allies occupied the Third Reich's laboratories and interrogated Germany's top physicists working with wunderkind physicist Werner Heisenberg and his colleague Carl Friedrich von Weizsäcker, it's been considered certain that Hitler's scientists were a long way from completing a nuclear weapon...

scrapper2  posted on  2007-03-20   0:00:11 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#201. To: scrapper2, ALL (#200)

What's the strawman?

"Nazii-fixated folks like BAC"

You make perfectly clear that you could give 2 hoots about the Eastern Europeans that we doomed to communism.

So you would have doomed them to Hitler. And unlike now, you have doomed them permanently.

In sheer numbers of deaths he caused Hitler was an amateur compared to Stalin.

Hitler was only getting started.

Hitler was no threat to America.

Well there you have it folks. scrapper assures us that Hitler was no threat. Just like Saddam was no threat.

Say what you will about Hitler and the bomb - he was several years from that.

No, many experts think the Germans were perhaps 6 months from the bomb at the end of the war. And that was with US bombing and specific US efforts to take apart and sidetrack Germany's nuclear program. Had we not been in the war ...

We had the bomb and we used the bomb. Hitler didn't.

You trying to tell us that you think he wouldn't have if he had one? Especially if he were the only one with one? That deserves a laugh. ROTFLOL!

Why don't you ask the Japanese about the dangers of a nation having a bomb and using it irresponsibly.

You think our use of the bomb against Japan was irresponsible? Really?

I provided you with a link to US Government documents recently released the showed the opposite to be true.

Refresh my memory.

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-03-20   1:07:46 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#203. To: BeAChooser (#201)

You think our use of the bomb against Japan was irresponsible? Really?

It's not just my opinion.

http://www.ncesa.org/html/hirosh ima.html

"Hiroshima: Historians Reassess"

by Gar Alperovitz

Foreign Policy (Summer 1995) No. 99: 15-34.

Copyright 1995 Carnegie Endowment for International Peace

"Careful scholarly treatment of the records and manuscripts opened over the past few years has greatly enhanced our understanding of why the Truman administration used atomic weapons against Japan. Experts continue to disagree on some issues, but critical questions have been answered. The consensus among scholars is that the bomb was not needed to avoid an invasion of Japan and to end the war within a relatively short time. It is clear that alternatives to the bomb existed and that Truman and his advisers knew it." (Emphasis added.)

The author of that statement is not a revisionist; he is J. Samuel Walker, chief historian of the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission. Nor is he alone in that opinion. Walker is summarizing the findings of modern specialists in his literature review in the Winter 1990 issue of Diplomatic History.

Another expert review, by University of Illinois historian Robert Messer, concludes that recently discovered documents have been "devastating" to the traditional idea that using the bomb was the only way to avoid an invasion of Japan that might have cost many more lives...

scrapper2  posted on  2007-03-20   1:48:28 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#210. To: scrapper2, ALL (#203)

"You think our use of the bomb against Japan was irresponsible? Really?"

It's not just my opinion.

... snip ...

"The consensus among scholars is that the bomb was not needed to avoid an invasion of Japan and to end the war within a relatively short time. It is clear that alternatives to the bomb existed and that Truman and his advisers knew it."

I'd like to see the names of these scholars. And I'd like to see these alternatives.

And by the way, consider this. If we hadn't used the atomic bomb to end WW2, the reality of the consequences of nuclear war would not have been apparent ... not to world leaders or the people of the world. It was a critical event. In that case, the likelihood that nuclear weapons might be used in some future conflict would have increased considerably. The likelihood of war between great powers like the US and Soviets would have increased. Perhaps the Berlin Crisis might have ended in open conflict. And had that happened, that conflict might very well have gone nuclear. And then where would the world be today, scrapper?

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-03-20   22:20:24 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#214. To: BeAChooser, diana, robin, christine, Burkeman1, Brian S. leveller (#210) (Edited)

a. I'd like to see the names of these scholars. And I'd like to see these alternatives.

b. And by the way, consider this. If we hadn't used the atomic bomb to end WW2, the reality of the consequences of nuclear war would not have been apparent ... not to world leaders or the people of the world. It was a critical event.

a. I gave you the same link 2 times already - it's 4 pages long. Newly released US gov't documents make it quite clear ( except to war mongers like yourself) that nuking 2 cities in Japan constituted war crimes committed by Truman. He had alternatives and he consciously ignored them.

http://www.ncesa.org/html/hirosh ima.html

"Hiroshima: Historians Reassess"

by Gar Alperovitz

Foreign Policy (Summer 1995) No. 99: 15-34.

Copyright 1995 Carnegie Endowment for International Peace

"Careful scholarly treatment of the records and manuscripts opened over the past few years has greatly enhanced our understanding of why the Truman administration used atomic weapons against Japan. Experts continue to disagree on some issues, but critical questions have been answered. The consensus among scholars is that the bomb was not needed to avoid an invasion of Japan and to end the war within a relatively short time. It is clear that alternatives to the bomb existed and that Truman and his advisers knew it." (Emphasis added.)

The author of that statement is not a revisionist; he is J. Samuel Walker, chief historian of the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission. Nor is he alone in that opinion. Walker is summarizing the findings of modern specialists in his literature review in the Winter 1990 issue of Diplomatic History.

Another expert review, by University of Illinois historian Robert Messer, concludes that recently discovered documents have been "devastating" to the traditional idea that using the bomb was the only way to avoid an invasion of Japan that might have cost many more lives..."

That's cut and past of the first couple of paragraphs.

b. You really are certifiable nuts, boozer - before I thought you were merely a paid employee shill for one of the "think" tanks. But after reading your latest observations about the valuable learning experience that came as a result of frying Hiroshima and Nagasaki [ when atomic bombs were not required to get a surrender from the Japanese Emperor] I am now convinced you are an off-the- wall-wacky-bloodthirsty-nutjob.

You think Nagaski and Hiroshima were some kind of petri dishes for experimentation on what works for peace and what doesn't? You think we should look at the "up" side of how we fried 2 Japanese cities for nothing? Good God, man, you are heartless.

"On 9 August 1945, Nagasaki was the target of the world's second atomic bomb attack at 11:02 a.m., when the north of the city was destroyed and an estimated 39,000 people were killed. According to statistics given at the Nagasaki Peace Park, the dead totaled 73,884, injured 74,909 and diseased 120,820. Most of those who died were civilians."

"On August 6, 1945 the nuclear weapon Little Boy was dropped on Hiroshima by the crew of the Enola Gay, directly killing an estimated 80,000 people and completely destroying approximately 68% of the city's buildings.[1] In the following months, an estimated 60,000 more people died from injuries or radiation poisoning. [2][3] Since 1945, several thousand more hibakusha have died of illnesses caused by the bomb."

scrapper2  posted on  2007-03-20   23:34:54 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#217. To: scrapper2, ALL (#214)

I gave you the same link 2 times already - it's 4 pages long. Newly released US gov't documents make it quite clear ( except to war mongers like yourself) that nuking 2 cities in Japan constituted war crimes committed by Truman. He had alternatives and he consciously ignored them.

What were those alternatives? And who were the scholars he claimed have reached a consensus. Surely both must be available to you, scrapper.

b. You really are certifiable nuts, boozer

If you want that to be the argument you depend on in this debate, fine with me. I've offered facts and sound logic to prove you are wrong about the outcome of WW2 had we not intervened. And there is by no means a consensus that the dropping of the bombs in Japan was a war crime (http://www.americanheritage.com/articles/web/20050902-hiroshima-nagasaki-japan-atomic.shtml ). But you go ahead and keep repeating that. I suspect that most Americans will simply ignore you if you do.

Good God, man, you are heartless.

Is it really heartless to believe that by using two nuclear weapons on cities we avoided thousands being used on cities? Or just common sense...

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-03-20   23:54:37 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


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