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US is Agreement Incapable

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War, War, War
See other War, War, War Articles

Title: Idiocy in D.C., Progress in Baghdad
Source: www.weeklystandard.com
URL Source: http://www.weeklystandard.com/Conte ... icles/000/000/013/416urcoa.asp
Published: Mar 17, 2007
Author: William Kristol
Post Date: 2007-03-17 20:20:21 by BeAChooser
Keywords: None
Views: 3274
Comments: 224

Idiocy in D.C., Progress in Baghdad

The surge is working--that's what matters.

by William Kristol

03/26/2007, Volume 012, Issue 27

In order to preserve the cosmic harmony, it seems the gods insist that good news in one place be offset by misfortune elsewhere. It may well be that Gen. David Petraeus is going to lead us to victory in Iraq. He is certainly off to a good start. If the karmic price of success in Iraq is utter embarrassment for senior Bush officials in Washington, D.C.--well, in our judgment, the trade-off is worth it. The world will surely note our success or failure in Iraq. It will not long remember the gang that couldn't shoot straight at the Justice Department--or, for that matter, the antics of congressional Democrats--unless either so weakens the administration as to undercut our mission in Iraq.

Obviously, it's too early to say anything more definitive than that there are real signs of progress in Baghdad. The cocksure defeatism of war critics of two months ago, when the surge was announced, does seem to have been misplaced. The latest Iraq Update (pdf) by Kimberly Kagan summarizes the early effects of the new strategy backed up by, as yet, just one additional U.S. brigade deployed in theater (with more to be added in the coming weeks):

This "rolling surge" focuses forces on a handful of neighborhoods in Baghdad, and attempts to expand security out from those neighborhoods. . . . A big advantage of a "rolling surge" is that the population and the enemy sense the continuous pressure of ever-increasing forces. Iraqis have not seen such a prolonged and continuous planned increase of U.S. forces before. . . . The continued, increasing presence of U.S. forces appears to be having an important psychological, as well as practical, effect on the enemy and the people of Iraq. . . . [Meanwhile] in Ramadi, in the belt south of Baghdad stretching from Yusifiyah to Salman Pak, and northeast in Diyala Province, . . . U.S. and Iraqi forces have deprived al Qaeda of the initiative.

This sense of momentum is confirmed by many other reports in the media, and from Americans and Iraqis on the ground.

But back in Washington, congressional Democrats are still mired in the fall of 2006 and seem determined to be as irresponsible as ever. They're being beaten back--in part thanks to the fighting spirit of stalwart congressional Republicans. Last week, the Senate defeated a resolution that would have restricted the use of U.S. troops in Iraq and set March 31, 2008, as a target date for removing U.S. forces from combat.

On the same day, on a mostly party-line vote, the House Appropriations Committee reported out the Democratic version of a supplemental appropriations bill for the war. It was an odd piece of legislation--an appropriation to fight a war replete with provisions intended to ensure we lose it.

Here's what the Democratic legislation does, according to the Washington Post: "Under the House bill, the Iraqi government would have to meet strict benchmarks. . . . If by July 1 the president could not certify any progress, U.S. troops would begin leaving Iraq, to be out before the end of this year. If Bush did certify progress, the Iraqi government would have until Oct. 1 to meet the benchmarks, or troops would begin withdrawing then. In any case, withdrawals would have to begin by March 1, 2008, and conclude by the end of that summer."

Got that? Oh yes, in addition to the arbitrary timelines for the removal of troops, there's pork. As the Post explains, "Included in the legislation is a lot of money to help win support. The price tag exceeds the president's war request by $24 billion." Some of the extra money goes to bail out spinach farmers hurt by E. coli, to pay for peanut storage, and to provide additional office space for the lawmakers themselves. So much for an emergency war appropriations bill.

The legislation may collapse on the floor of the House this week. It certainly deserves to. Republicans can insist on a clean supplemental--no timelines to reassure the enemy that if they just hang on, we'll be gone before long, and no pork. They can win this fight--and if they do, combined with progress in Iraq, the lasting news from March 2007 will not be Bush administration haplessness; it will be that we are on the way to success in Iraq.

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#60. To: BeAChooser (#55)

Give up on Rokke?

He's just one of many voices that speak the truth BAC. Something you wouldn't know much about.


You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006

FormerLurker  posted on  2007-03-17   23:42:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: BeAChooser (#37)

are you again trying strawmen instead of facts?

#20. To: Diana, ALL (#16)

A truth and a lie make little difference, only agenda matters.

Says someone who accepts the lies when it comes to bombs in the WTC, no Flight 77, John Hopkins' claiming 655,000 Iraqi dead and DU is the scourge of the millennium.

BeAChooser posted on 2007-03-17 21:50:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply


#21. To: scrapper2, ALL (#19)

But while many Iraqis are encouraged, they remain skeptical how long the relative calm will last. Each bombing renews fears that the horror is returning. Shiite militias and Sunni insurgents are still around, perhaps just laying low or hiding outside the city until the operation is over.

If the media had reported WW2 the way they've reported this war, we'd have lost WW2.

BeAChooser posted on 2007-03-17 21:52:16 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

who's your messiah now, strawman.

hammerdown  posted on  2007-03-17   23:50:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: FormerLurker, BeAChooser, hammerdown (#60)

Fighters for Fuller? Yeah, how do you like that name? I made it up. Everybody's nuts about it! The biggest men in the country are coming to my banquet... to get things rolling. I've got an admiral, two governors... some investment house boys and a cabinet minister. Which one? I don't know. I told the general to pick one. They're coming to your party? Honey, if I ask them, they've got to come. They'd be afraid not to come. I could murder them, like guests. I'm afraid it’s true. What’s true? Right here, tonight, you might have that much power. Seen the ratings?

If you look carefully at my lips, you'll realize that I'm actually saying something else. I'm not actually telling you about the several ways I'm gradually murdering Joan. - Tom Frost

Dakmar  posted on  2007-03-17   23:51:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: scrapper2, BeAChooser (#3)

Really BAC!! the Weekly Standard!

that is a communist rag. and when American jew Rachel Corrie was killed in Palestine by the Israeli military running her over with a bull-dozer they actually said that she wanted to die in that manner because she liked pancakes and wanted to be flat like a pancake.

You are an anti-American person to post anything from the Weekly Standard.

Galatians 3:29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Red Jones  posted on  2007-03-17   23:52:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: BeAChooser (#50)

demonstrating once again how irrational 4umers can be.

4 years after invasion, many Iraqis look back with longing

By Leila Fadel

McClatchy Newspapers

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Four years ago, Iraqi poet Abbas Chaychan, a Shiite Muslim who'd been forced into exile during the predominantly Sunni Muslim regime of Saddam Hussein, hailed the American presence here in a poem that praised the top U.S. diplomat in Iraq, L. Paul Bremer.

"We have breakfasts of kabab and qaymar," he wrote, describing the new Iraq with a reference to a rich cream that's considered a sign of wealth. "We put, in your stead, Mr. Bremer / Better than a tyrant of our own flesh and blood, and his torture."

Last January, shortly after Saddam was hanged, Chaychan again put words to paper. But his outlook had changed.

"History is proud to write about him," he said of Saddam. "It wasn't a rope that wrapped around the neck / It was the neck that wrapped around the rope. ...

"From his childhood he was a leader, stubborn and against the occupation."

As the anniversary of the March 20, 2003, U.S.-led invasion of Iraq nears, many Iraqis, like Chaychan, are expressing nostalgia for the time more than 1,000 days ago when Saddam's statue stood proudly in Baghdad's Fardos Square.

Chaychan's reading of his most recent work, in which he calls Saddam the Arab world's "knight" and compares his death to the eclipsing of the sun, has become a popular Iraqi destination on video-sharing services such as YouTube, where his pained voice rings out over a montage of shots of the Iraqi dictator: clenching his fist in the air, sporting his signature beret, at trial holding a Quran, with a noose around his neck.

In a January interview with CBS News' "60 Minutes," President Bush told correspondent Scott Paley that the American invasion had taken "care of a source of instability in Iraq."

"Envision a world in which Saddam Hussein was rushing for a nuclear weapon to compete against Iran," Bush said. "My decision to remove Saddam Hussein was the correct decision, in my judgment. We didn't find the weapons we thought we would find or the weapons everybody thought he had. But he was a significant source of instability."

In interviews across Baghdad, few Iraqis agreed, however. Instead, they displayed a collective fatigue, even as another plan to bring about security got under way. They're tired of waiting for better days when each morning brings new terrorism. Trapped in their homes, afraid that death will knock, they're worn down, they said.

Law and order - even under a bloody dictator who killed thousands and tortured many others - was better than this, many said. Even those who are glad to see Saddam dead expressed a longing for more orderly times.

---

Layla Mohammed, a Sunni Muslim mother of three, remembered that heady day four years ago when a noose tightened around the neck of Saddam's statue.

"I felt that I was at the highest point of a roller coaster, just about to plunge into what I hoped would be an exhilarating experience," Mohammed said. "I thought, `Oh, my God, it's happening. I live to see my sons set free.'"

A pharmacist, she said she'd voted in all three elections that Iraq has had since Saddam was toppled: first for an interim government, then for a new constitution, then for a permanent government. She remembers dipping her finger in purple ink - to indicate that she'd voted - with her two sons and her daughter. Together they held up their fingers and took a family photo to commemorate their future democracy.

"At that moment I felt that I was, at last, a sated human being. I had an opinion and it carried weight! I shall treasure that moment all my life," she said. "If only I could have that moment back; its joy was untainted. Now I know better."

The life of freedom and liberty she was promised never came. Her sons are trying to flee the country. She can't afford to keep her house warm, and no longer goes to her pharmacy in the neighborhood of Hurriyah, a once mixed-sect neighborhood that was emptied of most Sunnis in December.

"I have been conned," Mohammed said.

When Saddam was executed she told herself, "There goes the one man who could stop this bloodbath. I thought we would have to pay oil for freedom and democracy, but not our life's blood. It's too much."

She put her hand to her head. "It's too much."

---

Ahmed al Yasseri, a Shiite, also remembers his excitement at the fall of Saddam. He excitedly set up a once-forbidden satellite dish. For the first time he watched Arabic news channels and foreign stations. He bought a cell phone and subscribed to an Internet service.

Then his brother, a former officer in Saddam's army, was shot as he returned from his electronics shop in 2004. Yasseri's two nephews ran outside to see their father's body riddled with bullets. Yasseri fled his neighborhood looking for somewhere safer.

Three months later his uncle was killed, caught in a crossfire as he waited in a long line to buy gasoline. Yasseri moved again.

"In a short time you lose your dear ones, and for what?" he asked with despair. "Believe me, for nothing."

Now his current neighborhood, Mansour, once an upscale shopping district in central Baghdad, has grown dangerous as well. The crowded Shorja market, where he works, is a tempting target for bombs: A triple car bomb there killed at least 67 people a few weeks ago. He travels nowhere but the path between home and work. Every moment he worries that he'll die in the kind of bombing that fills the morgue with body parts.

"We envy the people who die in one piece now," he said.

---

Saddam was caught nearly nine months after the invasion, hidden in an underground hole with a pistol. Bilal Ali, 40, a Shiite, remembers that night. He pulled out an AK-47 rifle that he'd received as a gift and fired into the air in celebration - a burst of pop-pop-pops - then handed the weapon to his mother, then to his 7-year-old son.

"I shot five full magazines," he said. Each held 30 bullets. "Thank God, who blessed even the hearts of the martyrs in their grave, for this gift."

But it didn't bring the peace that Bilal Ali, a shopkeeper in the Shiite area of Karada, had imagined. Car bombs became prevalent in Shiite areas. Shiites were afraid to pray in their mosques, and Iraqis were afraid to shop in outdoor markets, targets of the Sunni insurgency.

Shiite militias struck back. Men, mostly Sunnis, turned up in the morgue, shot in the head, hands tied behind their back, drill holes in their bodies. The perpetrators eventually were linked to the Ministry of Interior, which oversees the police.

Electricity grew scarcer, at first available for eight hours, then six, then as few as three hours a day. Salaries went up, but so did the cost of living. A tank of cooking gas soared to $60 on the black market. A lower price cost a day's wait in line. The use of a generator cost $100 a month. At $300 a month, wages hardly kept pace.

Still, Bilal Ali is happy that Saddam was hanged.

"I had hope at that time that life would be much better after his regime's collapse," he said. "But I'm very happy with his end even if the security situation is bad."

---

Every morning as Mona Ali, a single Shiite mother, prepares sandwiches and breakfast for her three children she wonders whether they won't return to her. She leaves her 4-year-old son at home and tightly grips the hands of her two young daughters. On the daily walk to school, bullets sometimes have whizzed above their heads in the Shiite Amil neighborhood in west Baghdad.

"There is fear in my heart every day that my kids will go and not come back to me," she said.

Daily she walks to the neighborhood marketplace. On one trip, a car bomb ripped through the vegetable stands as she approached. The blood, the dead, the injured lay in front of her and she thought, it could have been me. She had a nightmare about her children as orphans.

"I remembered the fear I had for my children and I realized I might not return safely to them," she said.

"Baghdad is dirty. When it gets dark everybody hides in their houses just like rats," she said.

Over and over again she repeated, "Baghdad is dirty."

She remembers the bombing of the gold-domed Shiite shrine in Samarra more than a year ago. She knew the attack was different from all the others.

"I felt bitterness in my heart that day," she said. "I knew that things would not rest; I knew that we shall have torment for a long time, and it was true."

Shiite revenge killings soared. Neighbors soon couldn't live with one another. Sunnis feared Shiite militias and their dreaded checkpoints; Shiites feared the Sunni insurgency and its bloody bombings. People fled, and families were torn apart.

Many, like Ali, feel numb to the pain, cheated out of the lives they expected.

On the morning Saddam was hanged, Ali said, she wept. Not for the dictator, but for the death of her hope and the loss of confidence in a government that she thinks is worse than the one that came before it.

"I want safety," she said. "Saddam's time was a safe time for us."

---

Abbas Chaychan never returned to Iraq after the war. He remains an exile, part of an Iraqi diaspora that grows daily. As many as 2 million Iraqis have fled their homeland since the war began, according to the Office of the U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees. Up to 1.7 million Iraqis have been displaced internally.

It's the largest refugee movement in the Middle East since the displacement of the Palestinians in 1948, the U.N. reports. About 8 percent of Iraq's population before the war has left; up to 50,000 more Iraqis are displaced each month.

Bodies are stacked at the morgue, mothers weep and children are maimed. For four years Iraqis have waited for better days, and they weep for the time lost: no liberty, no freedom, just death.

Chaychan's most recent poem doesn't lament Saddam's death as much as it pines for the era when he lived.

"I cried & I didn't cry for you," he wrote. "I cried for the time that put you in a tomb."

McClatchy Newspapers special correspondents Laith Hammoudi, Zaineb Obeid and Sahar Issa contributed to this report.

HE has my respect.

for what, this?

hammerdown  posted on  2007-03-18   0:42:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: FormerLurker, ALL (#60)

"Give up on Rokke?"

He's just one of many voices that speak the truth BAC.

Like telling audiences that he is a health physicist when, in fact, he is not?

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-03-18   0:49:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#66. To: hammerdown, ALL (#64)

for what, this?

*********

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/iraq/article1530526.ece

From The Sunday Times

March 18, 2007

Resilient Iraqis ask what civil war?

Marie Colvin

DESPITE sectarian slaughter, ethnic cleansing and suicide bombs, an opinion poll conducted on the eve of the fourth anniversary of the US-led invasion of Iraq has found a striking resilience and optimism among the inhabitants.

The poll, the biggest since coalition troops entered Iraq on March 20, 2003, shows that by a majority of two to one, Iraqis prefer the current leadership to Saddam Hussein’s regime, regardless of the security crisis and a lack of public services.

The survey, published today, also reveals that contrary to the views of many western analysts, most Iraqis do not believe they are embroiled in a civil war.

Officials in Washington and London are likely to be buoyed by the poll conducted by Opinion Research Business (ORB), a respected British market research company that funded its own survey of 5,019 Iraqis over the age of 18.

The 400 interviewers who fanned out across Iraq last month found that the sense of security felt by Baghdad residents had significantly improved since polling carried out before the US announced in January that it was sending in a “surge” of more than 20,000 extra troops.

The poll highlights the impact the sectarian violence has had. Some 26% of Iraqis - 15% of Sunnis and 34% of Shi’ites - have suffered the murder of a family member. Kidnapping has also played a terrifying role: 14% have had a relative, friend or colleague abducted, rising to 33% in Baghdad.

Yet 49% of those questioned preferred life under Nouri al-Maliki, the prime minister, to living under Saddam. Only 26% said things had been better in Saddam’s era, while 16% said the two leaders were as bad as each other and the rest did not know or refused to answer.

Not surprisingly, the divisions in Iraqi society were reflected in statistics — Sunnis were more likely to back the previous Ba’athist regime (51%) while the Shi’ites (66%) preferred the Maliki government.

Maliki, who derives a significant element of his support from Moqtada al-Sadr, the hardline Shi’ite militant, and his Mahdi army, has begun trying to overcome criticism that his government favours the Shi’ites, going out of his way to be seen with Sunni tribal leaders. He is also under pressure from the US to include more Sunnis in an expected government reshuffle.

The poll suggests a significant increase in support for Maliki. A survey conducted by ORB in September last year found that only 29% of Iraqis had a favourable opinion of the prime minister.

Another surprise was that only 27% believed they were caught up in a civil war. Again, that number divided along religious lines, with 41% of Sunnis believing Iraq was in a civil war, compared with only 15% of Shi’ites.

The survey is a rare snapshot of Iraqi opinion because of the difficulty of working in the country, with the exception of Kurdish areas which are run as an essentially autonomous province.

Most international organisations have pulled out of Iraq and diplomats are mostly holed-up in the Green Zone. The unexpected degree of optimism may signal a groundswell of hope at signs the American “surge” is starting to take effect.

This weekend comments from Baghdad residents reflected the poll’s findings. Many said they were starting to feel more secure on the streets, although horrific bombings have continued. “The Americans have checkpoints and the most important thing is they don’t ask for ID, whether you are Sunni or Shi’ite,” said one resident. “There are no more fake checkpoints so you don’t need to be scared.”

The inhabitants of a northern Baghdad district were heartened to see on the concrete blocks protecting an Iraqi army checkpoint the lettering: “Down, down with the militias, we are fighting for the sake of Iraq.”

It would have been unthinkable just a few weeks ago. Residents said they noted that armed militias were off the streets.

One question showed the sharp divide in attitudes towards the continued presence of foreign troops in Iraq. Some 53% of Iraqis nationwide agree that the security situation will improve in the weeks after a withdrawal by international forces, while only 26% think it will get worse.

“We’ve been polling in Iraq since 2005 and the finding that most surprised us was how many Iraqis expressed support for the present government,” said Johnny Heald, managing director of ORB. “Given the level of violence in Iraq, it shows an unexpected level of optimism.”

Despite the sectarian divide, 64% of Iraqis still want to see a united Iraq under a central national government.

One statistic that bodes ill for Iraq’s future is the number who have fled the country, many of them middle-class professionals. Baghdad has been hard hit by the brain drain — 35% said a family member had left the country.

Additional reporting: Ali Rifat

ORB interviewed a nationally representative sample of 5,019 Iraqi adults between February 10-22. The margin of error was +/- 1.4%.

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-03-18   1:06:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: BeAChooser (#66)

Despite the sectarian divide, 64% of Iraqis still want to see a united Iraq under a central national government.

And you took this poll yourself, creep?

If you look carefully at my lips, you'll realize that I'm actually saying something else. I'm not actually telling you about the several ways I'm gradually murdering Joan. - Tom Frost

Dakmar  posted on  2007-03-18   1:08:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: Dakmar, ALL (#67)

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/iraq/article1530762.ece

From The Sunday Times

March 18, 2007

Iraqis: life is getting better

Marie Colvin

MOST Iraqis believe life is better for them now than it was under Saddam Hussein, according to a British opinion poll published today.

The survey of more than 5,000 Iraqis found the majority optimistic despite their suffering in sectarian violence since the American-led invasion four years ago this week.

One in four Iraqis has had a family member murdered, says the poll by Opinion Research Business. In Baghdad, the capital, one in four has had a relative kidnapped and one in three said members of their family had fled abroad. But when asked whether they preferred life under Saddam, the dictator who was executed last December, or under Nouri al-Maliki, the prime minister, most replied that things were better for them today.

Only 27% think there is a civil war in Iraq, compared with 61% who do not, according to the survey carried out last month.

By a majority of two to one, Iraqis believe military operations now under way will disarm all militias. More than half say security will improve after a withdrawal of multinational forces.

Margaret Beckett, the foreign secretary, said the findings pointed to progress. “There is no widespread violence in the four southern provinces and the fact that the picture is more complex than the stereotype usually portrayed is reflected in today’s poll,” she said.

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-03-18   1:12:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#69. To: BeAChooser (#0)

I've avoided this thread all day because I sniffed my screen and it smelled of Billy Kristol. Sure enough...neocon revisionism and disinformation. It's kinda fun to read, sorta like old Nazi propaganda. I took a course in college on Goebbels, and the most fun part of it was the newspaper reports from the Eastern Front, with glorious victories at every turn, grateful Russians flocking to join the German army, 17 year-old heros taking out whole divisions of craven Russians...it was a real trip.

The next week, we had films of what was really going on. The German people must have noticed that hundreds of thousands went to Russia, and none came back. But they chose to believe Goebbels.

Mekons4  posted on  2007-03-18   1:19:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#70. To: BeAChooser (#25)

Again, can you find the posts where I wrote of the bombs placed in the WTC?

Can you show us the posts where you've challenged the bombs in the WTC assertions? You've certainly been on enough threads where this was being discussed to have done so by now. So can you?

In other words, from the above post you answered me with, you looked back for such posts and to your consternation you found that I have written nothing on the topic of bombs in the buildings.

That should teach you not to make assumptions or accusations without really checking first.

Diana  posted on  2007-03-18   1:19:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#71. To: BeAChooser (#68)

By a majority of two to one, Iraqis believe military operations now under way will disarm all militias.

HAHAHAHAHAHA!

That one's a real knee-slapper. Thanks, BAC.

Mekons4  posted on  2007-03-18   1:20:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#72. To: BeAChooser (#52)

for what? allowing you to be deluded in nationalism? ever heard of Philip Giraldi?

Philip Giraldi from Cannistraro Associates has a column in the April 24 (print) edition of The American Conservative magazine about the story surrounding Sibel Edmonds.

According to Sibel, (no link, via email), this is "a fantastic short piece by Phil Giraldi; it sums up the case very well, considering the length... as far as published articles go, this one nails it 100%"

I've liberated the article from print (errors are mine):

---------------------------------

Sibel Edmonds, the Turkish FBI translator turned whistleblower who has been subjected to a gag order could provide a major insight into how neoconservatives distort US foreign policy and enrich themselves at the same time. On one level, her story appears straightforward: several Turkish lobbying groups allegedly bribed congressmen to support policies favourable to Ankara. But beyond that, the Edmonds revelations become more serpentine and appear to involve AIPAC, Israel and a number of leading neoconservatives who have profited from the Turkish connection. Israel has long cultivated a close relationship with Turkey since Ankara's neighbours and historic enemies - Iran, Syria and Iraq - are also hostile to Tel Aviv. Islamic Turkey has also had considerable symbolic value for Israel, demonstrating that hostility to Muslim neighbours is not a sine qua non for the Jewish state.

Turkey benefits from the relationship by securing general benevolence and increased aid from the US Congress - as well as access to otherwise unattainable military technology. The Turkish General Staff has a particular interest because much of the military spending is channeled through companies in which the generals have a financial stake, making for a very cozy and comfortable business arrangement. The commercial interest has also fostered close political ties, with the American Turkish Council, American Turkish Cultural Alliance and the Assembly of Turkish American Associations all developing warm relationships with AIPAC and other Jewish and Israel advocacy groups throughout the US.

Someone has to be in the middle to keep the happy affair going, so enter the neocons, intent on securing Israel against all comers and also keen to turn a dollar. In fact the neocons seem to have a deep and abiding interest in Turkey, which, under other circumstances, might be difficult to explain. Doug Feith's International Advisors Inc, a registered agent for Turkey in 1989 - 1994, netted $600,000 per year from Turkey, with Richard Perle taking $48,000 annually as a consultant. Other noted neoconservatives linked to Turkey are former State Department number three, Marc Grossman, current Pentagon Undersecretary of Defense for Policy Eric Edelman, Paul Wolfowitz and former congressman Stephen Solarz. The money involved does not appear to come from the Turkish government, and FBI investigators are trying to determine its source and how it is distributed. Some of it may come from criminal activity, possibly drug trafficking, but much more might come from arms dealing. Contracts in the hundreds of millions, or even billions of dollars provide considerable fat for those well placed to benefit. Investigators are also looking at Israel's particular expertise in the illegal sale of US military technology to countries like China and India. Fraudulent end-user certificates produced by Defense Ministries in Israel and Turkey are all that is needed to divert military technology to other, less benign, consumers. The military-industrial-complex/neocon network is also well attested. Doug Feith has been associated with Northrup Grumman for years, while defense contractors fund many neocon-linked think tanks and "information" services. Feith, Perle and a number of other neocons have long had beneficial relationships with various Israeli defense contractors.

of course not. like Ray McGovern, Larry Johnson and Karen Kwiatkowski and many other former agency/military whistleblowers, you ignore them. learn something, tool.

hammerdown  posted on  2007-03-18   1:23:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#73. To: BeAChooser (#68)

Marie Colvin

This Marie Colvin?

How Saddam's Agents Targeted Al-Jazeera - FrontPageMagazine, May 12, 2003

Are you insane? Nevermind, you've already answered that question.

If you look carefully at my lips, you'll realize that I'm actually saying something else. I'm not actually telling you about the several ways I'm gradually murdering Joan. - Tom Frost

Dakmar  posted on  2007-03-18   1:24:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: BeAChooser (#66)

The poll, the biggest since coalition troops entered Iraq on March 20, 2003

so now you grasp at "polls" for your validation. marvelous.
spoken like a true clintonian.
pmlol!

hammerdown  posted on  2007-03-18   1:27:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#75. To: BeAChooser (#25)

Can you show us the posts where you've challenged the bombs in the WTC assertions? You've certainly been on enough threads where this was being discussed to have done so by now. So can you?

Bait and switch, bob and weave...

It just so happens the topic of bombs is one that went by me.

Diana  posted on  2007-03-18   1:28:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#76. To: hammerdown (#74)

A "projectible" poll of 5,019 Iraqis...hahahahahaha. Like they can even think of getting a cross-section in a country where power barely runs, phones rarely work, and most people would rather DIE than tell an anonymous voice, who may be a terrorist, what they really think.

This was probably conducted with green zone employees, with a few Marines hanging around looking threatening.

Job with shortest lifespan: Door to door canvasser in Iraq.

Well, whattaya know, Marie, that one nearly made it to the end of the block.

Mekons4  posted on  2007-03-18   1:34:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#77. To: Mekons4 (#76)

siwwy wabbit, polls are for statists. huhhuhhuhhuh. ; )

hammerdown  posted on  2007-03-18   1:39:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#78. To: BeAChooser (#26)

I simply said to ingest it causes health problems You've done more than that, Diana.

One need only read this thread

http://freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=47761&SC=1&EC=40#C1

to see that.

Uh DUH....

Diana  posted on  2007-03-18   1:39:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#79. To: hammerdown, Mekons4, BeAChooser, robin, Marie Colvin (#77)

I want BAC to tell us more about Iraqi National Congress.

If you look carefully at my lips, you'll realize that I'm actually saying something else. I'm not actually telling you about the several ways I'm gradually murdering Joan. - Tom Frost

Dakmar  posted on  2007-03-18   1:43:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#80. To: Dakmar, Jethro Tull, BeAChooser (#28)

LOL, you get a +2 for prentending BAC is human.

I like to think he is human, I really do, but sometimes I get to thinking he has a cold heart, maybe he is one of those lizard people David Ickes talks about.

I don't know what to make of such a person.

Diana  posted on  2007-03-18   1:44:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#81. To: Dakmar, Mekons4, BeAChooser (#73)

This Marie Colvin?

How Saddam's Agents Targeted Al-Jazeera - FrontPageMagazine, May 12, 2003

Are you insane? Nevermind, you've already answered that question.

Good find, Dakmar! HAHAHAHAHA. BeAChooser, since Marie speaks so favorably of conditions in Iraq, are you thinking of spending summer vacation this year at the Baghdad Hotel? Oh please say yes...

scrapper2  posted on  2007-03-18   1:44:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#82. To: Diana (#80)

I think I just proved he works for Chalabi. :)

If you look carefully at my lips, you'll realize that I'm actually saying something else. I'm not actually telling you about the several ways I'm gradually murdering Joan. - Tom Frost

Dakmar  posted on  2007-03-18   1:49:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#83. To: scrapper2 (#81)

. are you thinking of spending summer vacation this year at the Baghdad Hotel?

I'll toss in a free "Bring 'em on" Tshirt.

Mekons4  posted on  2007-03-18   1:54:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#84. To: Dakmar (#82)

"BAC, Are you Human?"

That sounds like the title of a song from a John Water's movie.

Diana  posted on  2007-03-18   1:57:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#85. To: scrapper2 (#39)

Substitute the words "gulag" for "concentration camp" and "Christian" for Jews" and you get the picture.

Stalin and the communists walked away the big winners at the end of WW II.

Brilliant post scrapper.

All too true.

Diana  posted on  2007-03-18   2:23:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#86. To: BeAChooser, hammerdown, All (#52)

HE has my respect.

You're incapable of having "respect" for anybody.

Diana  posted on  2007-03-18   2:26:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#87. To: BeAChooser (#65)

Like telling audiences that he is a health physicist when, in fact, he is not?

Well here's what Dr. Rokke has to say about DU.

Dr. Doug Rokke Address on Depleted Uranium

He says that he SERVED for the US Army as a health physicist. Do you have any evidence that he didn't?

Regardless, it doesn't remove the transuranics from the DU the military is using as ammunition, does it.


You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006

FormerLurker  posted on  2007-03-18   2:35:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#88. To: BeAChooser, FormerLurker (#65)

Like telling audiences that he is a health physicist when, in fact, he is not?

Not that again.

Diana  posted on  2007-03-18   2:45:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#89. To: FormerLurker (#65)

Just in case you don't know, BAC is on this kick that only "health physicists" are capable of knowing the effects of DU on humans.

Diana  posted on  2007-03-18   2:47:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#90. To: Diana (#89)

Just in case you don't know, BAC is on this kick that only "health physicists" are capable of knowing the effects of DU on humans.

He's trying to say that Dr. Rokke is not a health physicist, so that makes anything that Dr. Rokke says less than credible. He always finds a way to discredit those that he likes to silence, well, almost always.. :)

Regardless of Dr. Rokke's background, it doesn't change the fact that DU is in itself a radioactive material that can inflict DNA and celluar damage if inhaled, along with various other insidious effects due to its chemical toxicity. Add the highly radioactive transuranic contaminants, and you have a potent poison that can damage not only the people that have absorbed it, but their offspring in the way of horrendous birth defects.

As far as Dr. Rokke, BAC has never demonstrated that he did NOT serve as a health physicist for the US Army. Judging from what Dr. Rokke has said concerning DU, I can see why BAC would like to shut him up..


You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006

FormerLurker  posted on  2007-03-18   2:57:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#91. To: Diana (#89)

He was good enough for the U.S.Army to originate their decontamination procedure, but not good enough for WhatALoser to be credible. ok, I get it.

hammerdown  posted on  2007-03-18   3:13:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#92. To: Diana (#89)

and he prefers analysis from the U.N. and other international bankster grant-paid "scientists" instead? uh huh.

hammerdown  posted on  2007-03-18   3:17:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#93. To: FormerLurker, hammerdown (#90)

He's trying to say that Dr. Rokke is not a health physicist, so that makes anything that Dr. Rokke says less than credible.

Right, that is how he works.

He makes his own rules as he goes along, such as saying only health physicists are capable of knowing about DU, so that makes anyone else wrong, even those who are experts in the field.

No one can ever win an argument with BAC because he operates on different principles than everyone else.

Diana  posted on  2007-03-18   4:20:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#94. To: hammerdown (#92)

He's like a 3 year old in that he thinks he can get away with his lies and distortions which are very obvious to all.

He gets angry when I point that out which I do from time to time.

Diana  posted on  2007-03-18   4:24:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#95. To: BeAChooser, scrapper2, hammerdown, FormerLurker, robin, All (#68) (Edited)

The survey of more than 5,000 Iraqis found the majority optimistic despite their suffering in sectarian violence since the American-led invasion four years ago this week.

Take a look at this:

In Iraq there is a second structural imperative for the violence, equally compelling, though much less candid. Despite public utterances, there is good reason to think that one of the goals of the US occupation has been the political dismemberment of the country.

The notion of a federal structure had been agreed at the London conference before the invasion took place under the guiding hand of current US ambassador Zalmay Khalilzid. The idea has been repeatedly endorsed in the pages of the New York Times (25 November 2003, 1 May 2006) by president emeritus of the Council for Foreign Affairs, Leslie H Gelb, a guru of US imperial strategy. A sectarian framework was superimposed on the new Iraqi state from the outset of the occupation, with political representatives made to take their place within government according to their language, religion, sect and ethnicity rather than by political programmes.

Most importantly, the US installed as National Security Advisor (probably the most senior Iraqi military post in the land) Mowaffak al-Rubaie, a dedicated champion of partition, who has contemplated as many as six statelets within a loose federal structure. Now, with the growing backing of powerful political figures in the US such as leading Democrat foreign affairs spokesman Joseph R Biden Jr and the de facto endorsement of the outgoing British ambassador, the break-up of Iraq seems close at hand.

With Iraq holding the second-largest proven oil reserves in the world, it’s not hard to see why three fractionalized polities might appear a more desirable outcome than a strong, centralized Iraqi state.

Very interesting read: http://www.brusselstr ibunal.org/FullerJadiriyah.htm

Diana  posted on  2007-03-18   8:52:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#96. To: BeAChooser (#0)

He is certainly off to a good start.

Indeed. March 2007 is already the bloodiest March ever since the invasion as afar as US casualties is concerned. But the f___ing zionazi traitor couldn't care less about such small details.

Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2007-03-18   9:03:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#97. To: Diana, ALL (#70)

Again, can you find the posts where I wrote of the bombs placed in the WTC?

"Can you show us the posts where you've challenged the bombs in the WTC assertions? You've certainly been on enough threads where this was being discussed to have done so by now. So can you?"

In other words, from the above post you answered me with, you looked back for such posts and to your consternation you found that I have written nothing on the topic of bombs in the buildings.

Oh. Maybe I just misinterpreted what you wrote here:

********

http://freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=45537&Disp=All[

BeAChooser - Currently, only one demolition expert in the world agrees with Griffin that Building 7 was a controlled demolition.

Diana - Actually there are probably many others, but they dare not speak out as they value their lives and those of their families.

*******

Then there was our conversation on the following thread

*************

http://freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=46290&Disp=All&#C231

starting at post #37.

BeAChooser to Jethro Tull - Give us the name of ONE structural engineer at BYU who supports Jone's theory. JUST ONE. Surely you can.

Diana to BeAChooser in response to that statement - You've just proven your blatant dishonesty or ignorance or nacisissism or all combined by attacking the credentials of these scientists.

BeAChooser to Jethro Tull - The structural engineering faculty in the Fulton College of Engineering and Technology do not support the hypotheses of Professor Jones.

Diana to BeAChooser in response to that statement - Of course they don't, they don't want to lose their funding!

*********

Try to convince us, Diana, that in the above you weren't defending the notion of bombs in the WTC towers. Because that's Jones' theory. That's the theory of the experts whose credentials I was criticizing. That's the theory of those on that thread you joined in to defend.

I tell you what, Diana. I've give you a chance here and now to tell us you do NOT believe in the WTC bomb theories. Go ahead, prove me wrong. Or do you want to rest your defense on parsing your statements like Clinton?

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-03-18   13:58:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#98. To: hammerdown, ALL (#74)

"The poll, the biggest since coalition troops entered Iraq on March 20, 2003"

so now you grasp at "polls" for your validation. marvelous.

Why not. Polls are all you folks have been grasping at all along.

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-03-18   14:01:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#99. To: Diana, ALL (#75)

It just so happens the topic of bombs is one that went by me.

Your not being honest, Diana. As the post above proves. I'm disappointed in you.

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-03-18   14:01:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#100. To: BeAChooser (#99)

Your not being honest, Diana. As the post above proves. I'm disappointed in you.

And we're ALL disappointed in you Ooser. We thought we'd get a better shill to bounce around, but you're rather inept and pathetic.


You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006

FormerLurker  posted on  2007-03-18   14:03:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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