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Title: The Third Stage of 9/11 Truth
Source:
george washington
URL Source: http://www.georgewashington.blogspot.com
Published: Mar 24, 2007
Author: george washington
Post Date: 2007-03-24 17:41:00 by Horse
Keywords: None
Views: 393
Comments: 22
Gandhi said "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." Recent indications are that we're in the third stage. For example: • We've almost all experienced some form of minor harassment or intimidation for questioning the official myth of 9/11 • In the last couple of months, people have been fired, punched, or referred for psychiatric treatment for speaking 9/11 truth • And the fascists have made loud hints that they might try to label 9/11 truthers (all, what, 100 million of us?) as weakening America's ability to "defend" the "war on terror", or even of aiding and abetting terrorists Keep the faith, people. This is a difficult stage. But we're well on our way to the fourth stage . . . VICTORY. Those who would trade safety for freedom deserve neither. – Thomas Jefferson Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing. - Hellen Keller Whatever you can do or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power, and magic in it. - Goethe Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear. - Ambrose Redmoon Courage is an everyday thing. When we look reality squarely in the eye and refuse to back away from our awareness, we are living courage. - Anonymous To have courage for whatever comes in life - everything lies in that. - Mother Teresa It is from numberless diverse acts of courage and belief that human history is shaped. Each time a man stands up for an ideal, or acts to improve the lot of others, or strikes out against injustice, he sends forth a tiny ripple of hope, and crossing each other from a million different centers of energy and daring, those ripples build a current that can sweep down the mightiest walls of oppression and resistance. - Robert F . Kennedy There is no act too small, no act too bold. The history of social change is the history of millions of actions, small and large, coming together at points in history and creating a power that governments cannot suppress. - Howard Zinn, historian It is not because things are difficult that we do not dare; it is because we do not dare that they are difficult. - Seneca, Native American Courage is the first of human qualities because it is the quality which guarantees the others. - Aristotle Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway. - John Wayne Courage is doing what your afraid to do. There can be no courage unless you're scared. - Eddie Rickenbacker Courage is fear holding on a minute longer. - George Patton One man with courage makes a majority. - Andrew Jackson Be bold and courageous. When you look back on your life, you'll regret the things you didn't do more than the ones you did. - H. Jackson Brown, Jr. You gain strength, courage, and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. — Eleanor Roosevelt Courage is contagious. - Various As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others. - Nelson Mandela Within each of us is a hidden store of energy. Energy we can release to compete in the marathon of life Within each of us is a hidden store of courage. Courage to give us the strength to face any challenge Within each of us is a hidden store of determination. Determination to keep us in the race when all seems lost. - Roger Dawson We must never despair; our situation has been compromising before; and it changed for the better; so I trust it will again. If difficulties arise; we must put forth new exertion and proportion our efforts to the exigencies of the times. - George Washington We must remember that one determined person can make a significant difference, and that a small group of determined people can change the course of history. -Sonia Johnson Never doubt that a small, group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds. - Samuel Adams
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#1. To: Horse (#0)
Great reminder - thank you. I meet NO ONE these days who buys the "official" fairy tale. Keep pounding away for the truth. Cheers.
"The line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes nor between parties either — but right through the human heart." — Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860 http://www.apfn.org/apfn/WTC_STF.htm Still reading...
"The line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes nor between parties either — but right through the human heart." — Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
Great...I thought you'd read that before.
Excerpts from your link: FALSE. Melting of the steel is not part of the explanation of why the structures collapsed. FALSE. The lead structural engineer on the project has categorical stated that the structure was NOT designed to withstand the fire from a commercial airliner crash. Indeed, the computers and software needed to do that sort design analysis did not exist at the time of the design. Furthermore, while the structure was designed to survive an airliner crash, it was NOT designed to withstand a crash by a plane going as fast as the 9/11 planes where flying when they hit the towers. The design for a plane flying in fog at about 1/3 the velocity of that actual impact. The difference in energy between the design impact and the actual impact is between 7 and 9 times greater. Finally, the tools available to investigate impact physics at the time towers were designed were crude by modern standards. They may not have even been reliable at the lower speed impact. Out of context. Swirsky does not for one minute suggest that anything other than the planes and subsequent fires brought the towers down. Also, architects are not structural engineers. Desceptive. As Lee Robertson himself pointed out, "It was assumed that the jetliner would be lost in the fog, seeking to land at JFK or at Newark." It was designed for a 180 mph impact. Not 600 mph. The impact energy is not only a function of mass but velocity SQUARED. Robertson went on to note that the kinetic energy of the 767 impact witnessed on 9-11 was nearly seven times greater than the building's design ever anticipated. Leslie Robertson is also quoted stating that "To the best of our knowledge, little was known about the effects of a fire from such an aircraft, and no designs were prepared for that circumstance." Again, melting is NOT part of the scenario posited by the experts for the collapse. This is a red herring on the part of the authors of your link, or a failure to understand the government scenario in any detail. Furthermore, the history of high rise structures of this design provides no case where a large commercial jet filled with fuel hits a skyscraper high above the ground and then starts fires that burn with firefighting and without intact fire protection systems for about hour. Also, the Windsor Tower fire in Madrid which occurred after 9/11 proves that the steel portions of skyscrapers are very vulnerable to fire of even lesser temperatures than those calculated to have occurred in the WTC towers once fireproofing has reached the limit of its capability in keeping the heat out. Not one demolition company or demolition expert in the entire world seems to thing the WTC towers were controlled demolitions. And one of the foremost demolition companies in the world, Protect, has this to say about the above assertion: **************** http://www.implosionworld.com/Article-WTC%20STUDY%208-06%20w%20clarif%20as%20of%209-8-06%20.pdf ... snip ... "Our company's archived recordings of original news broadcasts from the morning of 9/11 begin well prior to the collapse of the first tower and continue uninterrupted beyond the collapse of WTC 7. These original unedited recordings have allowed us to compare and scrutinize the collapse of all three structures free from any possibility of image tampering or modification. In addition, we have examined dozens of freelance and amateur video recordings incorporated into various documentary programs chroniclying 9/11 and studied countless ground-based and aerial images captured by private, press and government-contracted photographers. Protec and its employees have not been paid or hired by anyone to analyze this event, nor do we possess any political affiliations or contribue to any political party or individuals. We have undertaken this endeavor entirely at our own expense, with the singular goal of facilitating constructive dialog and providing a factual voice of reason to our friends and associates who were affected by the attack." ... snip ... ASSERTION #2 Any discussion of how the towers fell on 9/11 requires a fundamental understanding of how buildings collapse and an examination of the damage inflicted upon adjacent structures that morning. With very few exceptions, a tall office building (i.e., 20+ stories) cannot be made to tip over like a tree. Reinforced concrete smokestakes and industrial towers can, due to their small footprint and inherently monolithic properties. However, because the supporting elements in a typical human-inhabited building are spread over a larger area to accommodate living and work space, they are not nearly as rigid, and the laws of gravity cause them to begin collapsing downward upon being weakened or tipped off center to a certain point. ... snip ... The collapse of towers 1 and 2 followed this principle exactly. When the impact floors of both towers eventually failed, the upper sections did not simply tumble over onto the street below, rather they tilted while simultaneously collapsing downward. One primary difference between these two collapses and a typical building implostion was that the initial failure occurred very high up on the structure, which lead to an extended-duration "pancake-like" effect down to the ground. WIth the weight and mass of the upper sections forcing the floor trusses below rapidly downward, there was no way for outer perimeter walls to fall in, so they had to fall out. A review of all photographic images clearly show about 95% of falling debris being forced away from the footprint of the structure, creating a giant "mushroom" effect around the perimeter. As we now know, significant amounts of heavy structural debris rained down for blocks around the site. Many of the closest WTC buildings were completely destroyed and others heavily damaged. Predictably, the north tower's collapse caused slightly more ancillary damage than the south tower, as its impact point was higher and thus a larger volume of debris was projected farther from the footprint. Video of the north tower collapse clearly shows a roughly 50-story tall section of the building shearing away intact and laying out towards the west, heavily damaging the American Express Building and others on the adjacent block. Aerial photos taken just after both collapses show massive volumes of debris impacted WTC 7 (and other buildings to the north) the effects of which were directly responsible for the intense fires within that structure. These facts indicate that a relatively small amount of structural support debris actually landed straight down within the towers' footprints, making this event notably dissimilar to a planned demolition event." ****************** Deceptive. Van Romero was NOT an expert on structures or demolition. Here's his detailed resume: http://infohost.nmt.edu/~red/van.html . At the time of 9/11, he wasn't even working in the field of explosives. For ONLY 2 or 3 years he ran a group that focused on ordnance, explosives and energetic materials ... and not so much the effects of them on structures but the characteristics of the explosives themselves. Certainly there is no mention of him or any organization he worked for working on explosive demolition of structures or buildings. And we learn that prior to 1995, he conducted Environmental Impact Assessments, implemented radiation protection policies and investigated thermodynamic limits for the nuclear reactors. That's hardly the resume of the explosives, demolition and structures *expert* your link tries to present. Van Romero made a fool of himself and quickly realized that. Lou Cacchioli, whom you quoted, told Popular Mechanics that People misquoted him and that he merely said that explosions sounded like a bomb. He does not claim that there were bombs in the tower. http://michellemalkin.com/archives/005885.htm "Consider how the conspiracists have abused 20-year veteran New York City firefighter Louie Cacchioli. A People magazine article attributed this quote about WTC 7 to Cacchioli after the attacks: "We think there was [sic] bombs set in the building." But Cacchioli told Popular Mechanics he was misquoted: "I said, 'It sounded like a bomb.' I tried to explain what I meant [after the fact], but it was already out there." Cacchioli has been contacted repeatedly by people hoping he will say there were bombs in WTC 7, but he refuses to do so. According to the book, Cacchioli is "distressed at the inaccurate use of his name in conjunction with conspiracy theories."" His is only one example of quote abuse by folks like the author of your link. Here are some more: http://www.911myths.com/html/quote_abuse.html Which you now know is either a red herring on the part of the author or a claim that shows how uninformed the author really is ... Yeah. Right. How many hundred thousand TONS of steel was there? ROTFLOL! And the author is again being disingenuous because the steel from the towers was examined by professional both on site before removal began and at Fresh Kill where it was transported as the structure remains were removed. Thousands of pieces of steel were saved for future use. http://www.engr.psu.edu/ae/WTC/Chronicle.html "Mr. Astaneh-Asl has set up an office in Jersey City, at one of the two recycling facilities that are processing steel beams pulled from the wreckage of the towers. The facility is run by Hugo Neu Schnitzer East, a scrap company that donated the office space and is helping the professor in his work. He spends days at a time away from Berkeley, examining what he calls the "hills of steel." As of late last month, the recycling center had collected about 12,000 beams, according to Bob Kelman, senior vice president of the company. Mr. Astaneh-Asl has devised a classification system to group the various types of damage, and has enlisted the help of workers at the recycling center, training them to spot metal beams that might yield clues. Among the features he asks workers to look for are intense "fire burn" and any unusual bending patterns in the metal. Workers take digital photos of the steel that they process, he says, and save pieces that look unusual. Officials did not originally consider the steel useful to their investigations, and so at first it was consigned to be melted down without examination. In fact, the column with the bite out of it was being cut into pieces when Mr. Astaneh-Asl saw it and asked to save it. "The most important contribution of my career was to go to New York right after the attacks," he says. Like so many people who rushed to the scene, the researcher says he hoped he could do something to help. Visiting the site just after the attacks was "a really horrifying experience," he says. It looked "like a piece of video taken from Hiroshima documentaries." But his initial visit paid off: "It ended up making it possible for future researchers to have the steel saved." The Smithsonian Institution's National Museum of American History recently contacted Mr. Astaneh-Asl about acquiring key pieces of the twin towers for preservation." *************** Yet, not one of the many engineers involved in the above efforts has indicated they saw ANY trace of explosives. They did see evidence of the plane crashes and subsequent fires, however. ************ http://www.house.gov/science/full02/mar06/astaneh.htm "Before the Committee on Science of the U.S. House of Representatives March 6, 2002 "Learning from 9/11: Understanding the Collapse of the World Trade Center" ... snip ... My involvement in the investigation of the collapse of the World Trade Center is to conduct a reconnaissance of the collapsed and damaged WTC buildings and to collect the perishable data. The main objectives of the reconnaissance are to learn as much as possible from the actual collapsed structures and to document the failure modes and performance of the members and connections as well as quality of the construction. The purpose of collecting the perishable data is to collect material samples, photographs, videotapes, drawings and data on design, construction and collapse. Using the information collected and by conducting the necessary analyses and research, we try to establish probable causes of the collapse and most likely scenario for such collapse. Our project was funded by the Directorate of Engineering of the National Science Foundation as one of the eight Quick Response Research Awards in the aftermath of the WTC collapse. These projects focus on structural engineering (our project at UC-Berkeley), fire engineering, social aspects and response and recovery. More information on these projects can be found at www.nsf.gov. We prepared and submitted our proposal to the National Science Foundation three days after the 9/11 events and it was reviewed and funded by the end of the week. The credit for such a fast preparation, submittal, review and funding of these research projects should be given equally to the staff at the universities involved as well as the Program Directors and staff of the National Science Foundation. The use of "Fastlane" electronic submittal process of the NSF also expedited the process tremendously. So far, I have made three trips to NYC and spent a total of about 25 days there conducting field investigation and collecting data. Upon arrival to NYC on September 19, and after visiting Ground Zero and paying my respects and prayers to the victims, I started my reconnaissance and collection of the perishable data. I have collected some data on design and construction of the WTC and have met and discussed the case with the structural engineers who have designed the WTC Buildings. Thanks to cooperation of the HSNE recycling plant, I have been able to study the steel from the WTC before recycling. I have identified and saved some components of the structures that appear to have been subjected to intense fire or impact of fast moving objects. Figures 1 through 4 show examples of inspected structures. These critical pieces are saved as perishable data and can be used in future research. *********** Concerns that were subsequently addressed. NOT ONE structural engineer, demolition expert or materials engineer has come forward to question the scenario of collapse postulated by NIST in any significant facet. (well, maybe one ... snicker) And did you ever hear any more from Manning? No. Could it be because he was satisfied with what was eventually done to investigate the matter? Where is Manning on this issue now? If he still believes this then why isn't he still out there pointing it out? Has he similarly criticized the NIST investigation? No. Well perhaps his remarks were just premature and his views have changed since he wrote the article ... based on the extensive amount of investigation of the subject that has been done since ... once he learned more about what actually was being done and the subject matter. He spoke at this 2005 dinner for an award commemorating one of the firemen who was killed at the WTC on 9/11. Did he have anything more to say about the subject? Did he raise the issue again? Apparently not. The website describing the dinner (http://www.courageandvalor.com/dinner.cfm) doesn't mention him doing it. Better yet, ask why this author thinks melted steel is part of the official theory... And given that the author has been so lax with the facts and deceptive in their presentation, what else in his rant is equally misrepresented. You will not find the truth on a foundation of lies and misinformation. You will only discredit yourself.
Still spamming threads here dimwit? We all know the planes hitting the buildings did not bring them down. Obviously the buildings were designed to withstand the impact which they received, since they survived the impact. DUH!
#2. To: Horse, angle, *9-11* (#0)
Recent indications are that we're in the third stage.
#3. To: robin (#2)
Stranger Than Fiction
“Yes, but is this good for Jews?"
#4. To: Eoghan, angle (#3)
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
#5. To: robin (#4)
“Yes, but is this good for Jews?"
#6. To: Eoghan, ALL (#3)
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/WTC_STF.htm
The government/media approved version of events insists that the fires in the World Trade Center burned so hot that they caused steel supports to melt and buckle, thus triggering a total collapse of the towers.
1. The architects who designed the World Trade Center designed it to withstand the direct impact and fuel fire of a commercial airline crash.
Aaron Swirsky, one of the architects of the WTC described the collapse as "incredible" and "unbelievable."
Lee Robertson, the project's structural engineer said: "I designed it for a 707 to hit it. The Boeing 707 has a fuel capacity comparable to the 767."
2. The history of high-rise building fires provides no case histories of buildings collapsing due to steel beams melting from a fire.
3. The collapse of both towers were both perfectly symmetrical and methodical. The straight down collapse was identical in appearance to a well engineered, controlled implosion. A demolition company could not have done it better.
"But they fell straight down into their own footprint."
PROTECT COMMENT: They did not. They followed the path of least resistance, and there was a lot of resistance. Even a layman with no explosives background should be able to see this. But many specialists in the explosives and structural engineering have also made this observation and commented on these inconsistencies. After the WTC collapse, the Vice President of New Mexico Tech, Van Romero, gave an interview to the Albuquerque Journal. He stated plainly that he believed that the WTC collapse was too methodical and that explosive devices must have been placed in key points of both buildings.
Several witnesses and survivors reported hearing bombs going off inside the World Trade Center. Louie Cacchioli is a firefighter with Engine 47 in Harlem, New York. Cacchioli told People Magazine the following:
Now this whole controversy between the "melted steel" scenario
All we have to do is dig up the steel beams and examine each and everyone of them.
If an explosive device caused the steel to fail, there will be tell-tale indications for the engineers to see.
On December 25, 2001, the New York Times ran a story about the frustrations of some of the engineers who were called in to study the cause of the collapse:
Bill Manning, editor of the 125 year old Fire Engineering magazine, noticed a strange difference between the WTC investigation and other major fire investigations in New York City’s history.
Without a shred of physical evidence, these modern-day alchemists have been able to "prove" their theory fire caused the towers to collapse. This appears to be yet another monstrous lie. Why else would you destroy the "melted steel"? Ask Rudy.
#7. To: BeAChooser (#6)
(Edited)
The impact energy is not only a function of mass but velocity SQUARED. Robertson went on to note that the kinetic energy of the 767 impact witnessed on 9-11 was nearly seven times greater than the building's design ever anticipated.
A new truth movement friendly digg type site: Zlonk it!
#8. To: BeAChooser (#6)
I didn't see you eating any depleted uranium humble pie. and therefore, everything you say lacks credibility.
Galatians 3:29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
#9. To: Eoghan, scrapper2 (#5) (Edited)
Thanks again. I'm acquainted with that website, but not that particular page. Now that BAC's commented on it, I'm sure it's even more accurate than I first realized. They have quite a bit on DU too. http://www.apfn.org/apfn/WTC_STF.htm
"The line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes nor between parties either — but right through the human heart." — Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
#10. To: Horse, robin, scrapper2 (#0)
Another standard Soviet practice. It's almost like after the fall of the Soviet Union, the ones who shaped that culture came over here to wreck havoc in our country.
or referred for psychiatric treatment for speaking
#11. To: Diana (#10)
It's almost like after the fall of the Soviet Union, the ones who shaped that culture came over here to wreck havoc in our country. "Almost"? Another standard Soviet practice.
"The line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes nor between parties either — but right through the human heart." — Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
#12. To: beachooser, Christine, Brian S, Honway, Robin, Aristeides, Red Jones, Diana, Kamala, All (#6)
The blonde standing in the impact hole attests to how cool the hottest point was. Eat shit and die, BAC!
#13. To: robin (#9)
Vow...some sort of dissertation there. :P
Now that BAC's commented on it
“Yes, but is this good for Jews?"
#14. To: Horse (#0)
It doesn't even require a minority to prevail, but rather an individual choice. Each person can prevail against this beast, and each person will have to prevail against this beast or be eternally lost.
It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds. - Samuel Adams
God is always good!
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
#15. To: Critter, ALL (#7)
You have a problem with me pointing out that the linked article is deceptive, deceitful and downright nutty? The fact it survived does not mean it was designed to loading. Have you ever heard the term "safety factor"?
Still spamming threads here dimwit?
Obviously the buildings were designed to withstand the impact which they received, since they survived the impact. DUH!
#16. To: robin, ALL (#9)
Isn't it fascinating how someone who has bozo'd herself to avoid reading a word I post is so confident that the above statement does anything but further embarrass herself?
Now that BAC's commented on it, I'm sure it's even more accurate than I first realized.
#17. To: robin, ALL (#9)
Yes, and I note that Doug Rokke figures prominently as a expert source in that link. ROTFLOL!
They have quite a bit on DU too.
#18. To: BeAChooser (#15)
Yeah. Safety factors are DESIGNED into buildings. You earned your Shill of the Day dunce cap.
Have you ever heard the term "safety factor"?
A new truth movement friendly digg type site: Zlonk it!
#19. To: SKYDRIFTER (#12)
The entire NIST report rests on computer modeling. It is/was a experimental research project. It is nothing more than a cartoon virtural reality. What real forensic evidence there was, was discarded for manipulated imputs. End of story.
Mark
"I was real close to Building 7 when it fell down... That didn't sound like just a building falling down to me while I was running away from it. There's a lot of eyewitness testimony down there of hearing explosions. [..] and the whole time you're hearing "boom, boom, boom, boom, boom." I think I know an explosion when I hear it... — Former NYC Police Officer and 9/11 Rescue Worker Craig Bartmer
#20. To: Critter, ALL (#18)
That's right. But the load (L) the structure is DESIGNED to carry safely is NOT L time the safety factor. The safety factor is used to make sure that L is carried safely given all reasonable uncertainties. Now in the case of the WTC towers, L was the energy of impact at 180 mph. It was NOT the energy of impact at the velocity the planes actually hit. If you say so, critter.
Yeah. Safety factors are DESIGNED into buildings.
You earned your Shill of the Day dunce cap.
#21. To: BeAChooser (#20)
If the towers didn't collapse on impact, they were obviously designed to withstand the impact. What part of that does your feeble brain not comprehend? Shill.
A new truth movement friendly digg type site: Zlonk it!
#22. To: BeAChooser (#20)
as your biggest fan on this web site and someone that reads every word you write, I think you should refrain from any comments requiring ANY engineering expertise at all. because you are an expert at spamming, please continue doing that, but avoid all comments on engineering. If you were the engineer of the WTC buildings' design, then I guarantee it would've fallen down. that's all I know for sure.
Galatians 3:29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
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