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Title: British Backtrack on Iraq death toll
Source: Independent
URL Source: http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article2396031.ece
Published: Mar 27, 2007
Author: Jill Lawless
Post Date: 2007-03-27 06:38:41 by Ada
Keywords: None
Views: 30722
Comments: 394

British government officials have backed the methods used by scientists who concluded that more than 600,000 Iraqis have been killed since the invasion, the BBC reported yesterday.

The Government publicly rejected the findings, published in The Lancet in October. But the BBC said documents obtained under freedom of information legislation showed advisers concluded that the much-criticised study had used sound methods.

The study, conducted by researchers from Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore and the Al Mustansiriya University in Baghdad, estimated that 655,000 more Iraqis had died since March 2003 than one would expect without the war. The study estimated that 601,027 of those deaths were from violence.

The researchers, reflecting the inherent uncertainties in such extrapolations, said they were 95 per cent certain that the real number of deaths lay somewhere between 392,979 and 942,636.

The conclusion, based on interviews and not a body count, was disputed by some experts, and rejected by the US and British governments. But the chief scientific adviser to the Ministry of Defence, Roy Anderson, described the methods used in the study as "robust" and "close to best practice". Another official said it was "a tried and tested way of measuring mortality in conflict zones".

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#110. To: Diana, ALL (#104)

In this country, the citizens are still suppose to rule with their majority opinions

No, Diana ... we live in a REPRESENTATIVE democracy.

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-04-03   18:48:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#111. To: Diana, ALL (#105)

I know full well about American lies since this scumbag of a nation launched 78 days of airstrikes against mostly civilian targets in Serbia.

BAC, can you explain why this was done?

Just check out the timing with respect to other disclosures about Clinton and Clinton administration crimes, Diana.

I'm sure you can figure it out.

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-04-03   18:49:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#112. To: Diana, ALl (#106)

I also used to wonder why anyone would have bothered to shoot Ron Brown in the head when he was going to be dead anyway in the plane crash.

Folks survive plane crashes all the time. This was a low speed impact. The back portion of the plane was even still intact. And in any case, you are avoiding the real issue. The photo, x-ray and what the pathologists say.

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-04-03   18:51:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#113. To: Diana, ALL (#107)

"Iraq was still working with terrorists post 9/11."

"Iraq was allowing al-Qaeda to operate freely on Iraqi soil."

Talk about building a foundation of lies...

You can't possibly believe the stuff you post.

Diana, during the invasion our troops discovered suicide bomb making factories and foreign nationals who said the Iraqis were training terrorists.

We have documents showing that the Iraqi regime was playing catch and release with al-Qaeda terrorists. al-Zarqawi even felt confident enough to meet IN BAGHDAD the terrorists who Jordan eventually caught with the materials they planned to use to kill tens of thousands.

Who really has their head in the sand here, Diana?

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-04-03   18:57:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#114. To: BeAChooser, Diana (#108)

The official AFIP explanation is that the wound was probably caused by a rivet, rod, or bolt from the airplane wreckage.

The problem with shooting Ron Brown in the head is that the plane is packed and the shooter can't get away as the plane goes down. Even if he pulled a DB Cooper and jumped out he would be landing in an area that would probably kill or cripple him regardless.

Therefore the plausible explanation is that the head wound was a result of the crash. But putting out a flase story that he mayhve been shot makes all who question the crash look like loons.

"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom

Destro  posted on  2007-04-03   19:01:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#115. To: BeAChooser, Diana (#110) (Edited)

No, Diana ... we live in a REPRESENTATIVE democracy.

Let me know when congress declares war and makes this war legal.

"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom

Destro  posted on  2007-04-03   19:02:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#116. To: BeAChooser, Diana (#111)

Just check out the timing with respect to other disclosures about Clinton and Clinton administration crimes, Diana.

Bush fully supported the bombings over the Republican party's objections.

"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom

Destro  posted on  2007-04-03   19:03:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#117. To: BeAChooser, Diana (#112)

Folks survive plane crashes all the time. This was a low speed impact. The back portion of the plane was even still intact. And in any case, you are avoiding the real issue. The photo, x-ray and what the pathologists say.

NO ONE SURVIVED THAT PLANE CRASH!! Hence the shooter died as well and Ron Brown would have been shot in front of terrified business reps he brought with him. And if any survived they would have had to have been shot as well. Thus I don't think Ron Brown was shot to t he head - though I think he was murdered. Then they get their honey pot stories out to lure in teh conspiracy flies who will muck up any investigation because now diging for this truth makes you seem looney.

This was an impact on the side of a mountain - they did not skid to a stop it was a full frontal impact.

"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom

Destro  posted on  2007-04-03   19:08:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#118. To: BeAChooser, Diana, (#113)

We have documents showing that the Iraqi regime was playing catch and release with al-Qaeda terrorists.

When can we bomb DC? America was fully funding al-Qaeda linked armies in the Balkans. Let me know when war will come against the real people spreading al- Qaeda like jihad - Pakistanis and Saudis and Americans in the State Dept.

"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom

Destro  posted on  2007-04-03   19:10:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#119. To: BeAChooser (#103)

I'm glad to see you hold America in high esteem

You are wrong - I don't hold this nation in esteem at all nor it's citizens except for a handful - myself included in the exception.

"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom

Destro  posted on  2007-04-03   19:32:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#120. To: Destro, Diana, ALL (#114)

The problem with shooting Ron Brown in the head is that the plane is packed and the shooter can't get away as the plane goes down.

Aren't you getting the cart before the horse?

All of a sudden, it seems you don't want to know what the pathologists said?

They said it looked like a bullet wound and he should have been autopsied.

If an exhumation and autopsy revealed that it was, then what?

Would you still just say Brown couldn't be shot because the plane was packed and the shooter couldn't get away?

Now as to that claim ... since you want to speculate ... let's note a few other facts that might be pertinent.

They don't really know who was on the plane since the passenger manifest just happened to get lost.

Something clearly happened on that plane long before it just "accidently" crashed into the mountain. When it was still 8 miles from the crash site both an AWACS and the airports in the area simultaneously lost both voice and transponder contact with the plane. And about that time, there was an odd jog in the flight path of the plane ... which to this day has also not been explained. Just ignored.

Do you know that the rear door of the aircraft was found open when rescuers first arrived at the crash site? Given that, could someone have jumped out of the plane before it crashed? Perhaps after setting off a small bomb to take out the communications on the plane? Also, the hand gun of Brown's bodyguard was never located at the crash site. It just disappeared.

And why do you assume Brown was killed while in flight? I've never insisted on that. If this was a plot to spoof the plane into hitting a mountain, the perpetrators would know where the plane was going to hit. It wouldn't be that hard to have someone on the ground at that location make sure that everyone was dead. With that in mind, note the following. Although the crash occurred within two miles of the airport, it "officially" took at least 7 hours for the U.S. Air Force to arrive. This was reportedly hours after the Croatians had reached the crash site. But curiously, an Associated Press report stated that the first Croatian rescuers were met by three Americans who were already on the ground. Hmmmmmm...

After the crash, businesses that had employees on the plane were told there were no survivors. Later, they were told there was one (Sergeant Kelly). However, a Commerce Department document uncovered by Judicial Watch indicated that two (2) people survived the impact. The document, a chronology of events, was prepared for Secretary of State Warren Christopher. The log included the following item 40 minutes after the wreckage was discovered: "Commerce Dept. has heard from Advance Ira Sokowitz in Sarajevo that two individuals have been recovered alive from the crash." The government has never mentioned in any forum the second survivor. Why is that? The log also indicates that 45 minutes after notification of two survivors, Deputy Secretary of State Strobe Talbott asked that a TV crew "not film at the crash site." The request was granted without any explanation from the State Department as to why it was made. In fact, a State Department spokesperson was quoted as saying it would be "a waste of taxpayers' money" to respond to questions raised by the log.

Do you know that Ira Sockowitz was supposed to be on the Brown flight but missed it for some "unspecified" reason? Amazing how he was still able to get to the crash site in time to be the point man for sending information back regarding the two survivors. And, by the way, Ira Sockowitz was an associate of John Huang (a known Chinese spy) and is himself implicated in illegally obtaining Secret materials while at Commerce (another matter never pursued by the RENO DOJ).

The Croatian Ministry Of Transportation announced shortly after the crash that the black boxes had been found. The US Air Force in Germany confirmed this. Several foreign news stations reported it. The Department of Commerce log mentioned above states, "Chief of protocol Misetic called...The flight data recorder has been recovered." Then, a week later, the Air Force said the plane had no black boxes and that some boxes that looked exactly like the recorders had been found instead. The problem with this scenario is that flight recorders are designed to be unique in appearance and the people in Croatia who reported finding them were certainly qualified to know what one looks like.

Another problem with the claim that there were no black boxes is that this exact plane, just a week earlier, carried the First Lady and Chelsea and, several weeks before that, had carried the Secretary of Defense. Regulations require that the First Lady and Cabinet Members only fly on aircraft with black boxes. Curiously, noone was ever punished for this "violation" of regulations.

You see, Destro, this incident is full of facts with which to speculate.

Therefore the plausible explanation is that the head wound was a result of the crash. But putting out a flase story that he mayhve been shot makes all who question the crash look like loons.

The only indisputable facts are that TRAINED, EXPERIENCED forensic pathologists ... some of the best in the country at the time ... concluded that what they saw was indicative of a gunshot wound. Yet there was no autopsy. And now you seem desperate to ignore that fact. Curious ...

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-04-03   20:22:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#121. To: Destro, ALL (#115)

Let me know when congress declares war

Let me know when you find the section in the Constitution where it defines how Congress is to declare war.

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-04-03   20:25:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#122. To: Destro, ALL (#116)

Bush fully supported the bombings over the Republican party's objections.

I've never said that Bush is a good guy.

In fact, I'm on record stating that he's complicit in the coverup of the crimes committed by the Clinton administration.

And that would include suspicions about the death of Ron Brown.

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-04-03   20:27:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#123. To: Destro, ALL (#117)

NO ONE SURVIVED THAT PLANE CRASH!!

Not true. Ira Sockowitz reported back to the State Department that there were TWO SURVIVORS. Sergeant Kelly was alive after the crash by most accounts. And Dr Wecht stated that Ron Brown's wounds (other than the head wound) were survivable.

Hence the shooter died as well

You assume the shooter was on the plane. That may be a false assumption. And you ignore the open door the rescuers found in the rear portion of the plane. You just seem desperate to avoid the facts and conclusions of the most expert people in this instance ... the forensic pathologists.

Thus I don't think Ron Brown was shot to t he head

It doesn't matter what you think. That's IRRELEVANT. What matters is what the experts in such things ... the forensic pathologists ... say the wound said to them ... what the photo and x-ray of the wound say to other pathologists who didn't see it first hand. And they all say (except for a couple of proven liars) that the wound is suspicious and that Brown should have been autopsied. And that fact puts all the other facts surrounding the case into a different light.

though I think he was murdered.

Now you have me confused as to what you believe, Destro. Murdered how, when and by whom?

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-04-03   20:36:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#124. To: Destro, ALL (#119)

I don't hold this nation in esteem at all nor it's citizens except for a handful - myself included in the exception.

ROTFLOL!

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-04-03   20:38:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#125. To: BeAChooser (#109)

on lp you said there were photos of the bullet hole. which were lost of course. you also said he was shot right before the plane went in. someone even asked you why they bothered to shoot the guy if the plane was going to crash. why don't you tell us the whole story. it sounds really kookey.

"And this is the end of my brilliant career on the 4um..." -- ponchy 12/20/2006

Morgana le Fay  posted on  2007-04-03   21:12:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#126. To: BeAChooser (#123)

Now you have me confused as to what you believe, Destro. Murdered how, when and by whom?

is he really murdered if bill clinton had him brought back to life as a zombie?

"And this is the end of my brilliant career on the 4um..." -- ponchy 12/20/2006

Morgana le Fay  posted on  2007-04-03   21:13:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#127. To: BeAChooser (#121)

Let me know when you find the section in the Constitution where it defines how Congress is to declare war.

i assume you can't say that congress would declare war the same way it conducts every other piece of business. and has conducted every other piece of business for for the past 230 years.

pass a bill.

this is probably very inconvenient to the propaganda you are trying to push.

"And this is the end of my brilliant career on the 4um..." -- ponchy 12/20/2006

Morgana le Fay  posted on  2007-04-03   21:17:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#128. To: Morgana le Fay, Destro, ALL (#125)

you said there were photos of the bullet hole. which were lost of course.

No, I said there are photos of the wound that pathologists said looks like a bullet wound published on the internet.

And there are.

And I noted that the original photos from which those images came have disappeared from a locked safe at AFIP.

And they have. The government admits this. And then ignores it.

you also said he was shot right before the plane went in

No, I did not.

I said he MIGHT have been shot before the plane went down.

I also said he MIGHT have been shot after the crash.

I said the only way to know for sure IF he was shot at all would be to exhume the body and do an autopsy.

Why do you fear the Ron Brown case so much that you consistently mischaracterize my statements and views?

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-04-03   21:25:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#129. To: Morgana le Fay, Destro, ALL (#127)

i assume you can't say that congress would declare war the same way it conducts every other piece of business. and has conducted every other piece of business for for the past 230 years.

pass a bill.

How about one titled "Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002" (Public law 107-243, 116 Stat. 1497-1502). It was passed by the House on October 10, 2002 by a vote of 296-133, and the Senate on October 11 by a vote of 77-23. It was signed into law by President Bush on October 16.

The resolution cited many factors to justify action in Iraq:

* Iraq's noncompliance with the conditions of the 1991 cease fire, including interference with weapons inspectors

* Iraq's alleged weapons of mass destruction, and programs to develop such weapons, posed a "threat to the national security of the United States and international peace and security in the Persian Gulf region"

* Iraq's "brutal repression of its civilian population"

* Iraq's "capability and willingness to use weapons of mass destruction against other nations and its own people"

* Iraq's hostility towards the United States as demonstrated by the 1993 assassination attempt of former President George H. W. Bush, and firing on coalition aircraft enforcing the no-fly zones following the 1991 Gulf War

* Members of al-Qaeda were "known to be in Iraq"

* Iraq's "continu[ing] to aid and harbor other international terrorist organizations," including anti-United States terrorist organizations

* Fear that Iraq would provide weapons of mass destruction to terrorists for use against the United States

* The efforts by the Congress and the President to fight the 9/11 terrorists and those who aided or harbored them

* The authorization by the Constitution and the Congress for the President to fight anti-United States terrorism

* Citing the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998, the resolution reiterated that it should be the policy of the United States to remove the Hussein regime and promote a democratic replacement

The Resolution required President Bush's diplomatic efforts at the UN Security Council to "obtain prompt and decisive action by the Security Council to ensure that Iraq abandons its strategy of delay, evasion, and noncompliance and promptly and strictly complies with all relevant Security Council resolutions." It authorized the United States to use military force to "defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council Resolutions regarding Iraq."

Seems to me the war in Iraq is legal by your definition.

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-04-03   21:36:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#130. To: BeAChooser (#129)

you are spinning again, but that is to be expected.

there was no un security council resolution. bush utterly humiliated himself trying to get one, but couldn't he lacked three votes. bush also cut the inspections short. 114 authorized enforcement of security councel resolutions or defence of national security. as the bush government has told us, there was no threat, the wmd's only existed in the stories the bush admin fed to guys like you. look at the silly articles you are forced to quote to keep your kooky propaganda here alive.

here is the resoluton:

(1) strictly enforce through the United Nations Security Council all relevant Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq and encourages him in those efforts; and

(2) obtain prompt and decisive action by the Security Council to ensure that Iraq abandons its strategy of delay, evasion and noncompliance and promptly and strictly complies with all relevant Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq.

SEC. 3. AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES.

(a) AUTHORIZATION- The President is authorized to use the Armed Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary and appropriate in order to--

(1) defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and

(2) enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq.

"And this is the end of my brilliant career on the 4um..." -- ponchy 12/20/2006

Morgana le Fay  posted on  2007-04-03   22:03:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#131. To: BeAChooser (#129)

i notice that you couldn't post the full resolution as it contradicted what you claimed above. you could only cherry pick from the recitals. and you didn't quote them correctly.

"And this is the end of my brilliant career on the 4um..." -- ponchy 12/20/2006

Morgana le Fay  posted on  2007-04-03   22:04:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#132. To: BeAChooser (#128)

also recall that bush was expected to go back to congress and get a second war authorization before going into iraq. bush didn't do this because he feared he would be TURNED DOWN as he was in the UN. instead, he used fox news to fool guys like you into thinking the resolution above was sufficient.

"And this is the end of my brilliant career on the 4um..." -- ponchy 12/20/2006

Morgana le Fay  posted on  2007-04-03   22:07:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#133. To: BeAChooser (#129)

this sort of blatent dishonesty is the reason you are a laughing stock both here and on LP. it is also the reason that the republicans lost the last election and now stand in ruins with a 29% approval rate. it is why fox news is losing viewers and why 50% of the country identifies with the democrats and only 35% identify with the republicans. people are sick of the type of sleaze you, your party and your country push.

"And this is the end of my brilliant career on the 4um..." -- ponchy 12/20/2006

Morgana le Fay  posted on  2007-04-03   22:10:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#134. To: BeAChooser (#129)

Except for the fact that Congress's own investigation showed that Iraq was no threat to the USA and that Saddam was not in league with AQ and that GWB used false intel to suggest the case was otherwise.

If GWB and Cheney had any sense of decency, they would have resigned their positions. If they worked in private industry, their resignations for such grievous errors would have been demanded by the Board of Directors on the spot.

You might not be so pumped up about GWB's right to abuse Congressional permission to wage war if it were Israel rather than Iraq that was the unlucky victim of erroneous ( can you say manufactured?) WMD intel.

scrapper2  posted on  2007-04-03   22:13:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#135. To: BeAChooser (#113)

We have documents showing that the Iraqi regime was playing catch and release with al-Qaeda terrorists. al-Zarqawi even felt confident enough to meet IN BAGHDAD the terrorists who Jordan eventually caught with the materials they planned to use to kill tens of thousands.

No, NewsMax told you you and other gullible goobers that it had seen these sorts of things, and that "unnamed sources" reported such things, and it it all crap. That is why the Duelfer report and all respectable media outlets call this sort of shit "debunked".

If a shred of the NewsMax crap you spew were true, Bush would be on TV tonight repeating it and saving his Presidency. Instead, he slides down the tubes because of Iraq.

And if a shred of this crap were true, why does it only come out in the Republican goob fooler press targeted at easly led morons like yourself?

Surely there are some dark conspiracies at work here. Do you suppose Ron Brown is at the bottom of it all?

.

...  posted on  2007-04-03   22:23:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#136. To: BeAChooser (#120)

The stuff you are spewing above is only published in third tier goob fooler rags targeted to conspiracy kooks such as yourself.

If you sit around reading this nutter stuff all day, you start spewing nut ball conspiracies like you just did here.

Do you have a shred of evidence for the SHIT that you just spewed above that comes out of a respectable publication? Or is it all NewsMax spew?

.

...  posted on  2007-04-03   22:26:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#137. To: BeAChooser (#121)

And please don't quote the National Enquirer or the UFO magazines at me.

.

...  posted on  2007-04-03   22:27:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#138. To: BeAChooser (#129)

Don't you find it odd that there are absolutely no respectable sources for the shit you spew? And the that only people who seem to support you on it are kooks over on FR?

And don't you find it odd that you must constantly invent new and ever more looney conspiracy theories to explain this?

Either everyone in the world is a kook except you, or it is the other way around. Occums razor should tell you something here.

.

...  posted on  2007-04-03   22:30:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#139. To: BeAChooser, SkyDrifter, Diana (#95)

BAC!!! you have not yet defended yourself from the 'treasonous queer' charge. This apparently means that you accept the charges. You are a TREASONOUS QUEER. You pay Jeff Gannon for a date just like George Bush does. and you are a traitor too.

It is very hard on your fans that you do not defend yourself from these charges.

Galatians 3:29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Red Jones  posted on  2007-04-03   23:45:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#140. To: BeAChooser (#121)

Let me know when you find the section in the Constitution where it defines how Congress is to declare war.

U.S. Constitution - Article 1 Section 8

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom

Destro  posted on  2007-04-03   23:46:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#141. To: Morgana le Fay, BeAChooser (#125) (Edited)

An interim report on the death of Commerce Secretary Ron Brown.

"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom

Destro  posted on  2007-04-03   23:47:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#142. To: BeAChooser (#121)

Let me know when you find the section in the Constitution where it defines how Congress is to declare war.

"How" Congress is to declare war?

ROTFLOL!!

This is the most lame spin you've come out with yet.

You know you can't honestly quote 114 as it doesn't support your argument. You know that Bush was supposed to return for a war resolution but didn't bother after the UN slapped him down. You know that Bush had to then stretch and misinterpret 114 to find the authority to go in.

To avoid these inconvenient fact, you are now claiming that there are many, many ways for Congress to authorize war. Holding up two fingers when Bush walks past, crossing their legs in the chamber, coughing three times, etc.

You are a real piece of work.

.

...  posted on  2007-04-03   23:53:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#143. To: BeAChooser, Morgana le Fay (#129)

The resolution cited many factors to justify action in Iraq:

All of them Bullshit.

"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom

Destro  posted on  2007-04-03   23:56:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#144. To: BeAChooser (#128) (Edited)

I said he MIGHT have been shot before the plane went down.

I also said he MIGHT have been shot after the crash.

I say the more plausible because it is less complicated explanation is that the method of murder was the crash of the airplane.

By the way I refreshed my memory on the subject. I provided a link which I like because it does not mention any nonsense as a head shot. If I see mention of a head shot I think disinfo attempt.

"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom

Destro  posted on  2007-04-04   0:02:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#145. To: ..., BeAChooser (#142)

How" Congress is to declare war?

Yea, it's not like Congress ever declared war before.

"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom

Destro  posted on  2007-04-04   0:04:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#146. To: BeAChooser, Morgana le Fay (#129)

It authorized the United States to use military force to "defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council Resolutions regarding Iraq."

Iraq posed no threat.

The UN did not authorize force to enforce its resolutions.

"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom

Destro  posted on  2007-04-04   0:08:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#147. To: All, BeAChooser (#113)

To All: Watch Choose shuck and Jive and refuse to answer the question.

If a shred of chooser's WMD spew were true, Bush could get up on National TV tonight and save his Presidency with it. Instead, Bush circles the hole in the toilet and waits for the last big slurp.

If a shred of chooser's Al Qaeda in Iraq spew were true, Bush could get up on National TV tonight and save his Presidency with it. Instead, Bush circles the hole in the toilet and waits for the last big slurp.

If a shred of choosers Ron Brown kookery was true, Bush could get up on National TV tonight and save his Presidency with it. Instead, Bush circles the hole in the toilet and waits for the last big slurp. In addition, Star, who was somewhat hard up for a charge, could have put Clinton in jail with it.

Chooser simply has no answer to these questions that he can give us. He does have an answer, but the answer is a completely nutty and and utterly silly conspiracy theory and chooser knows that he would be held up to ridicule for years to come if he told it to us.

Hence, chooser ignores questions like the ones above.

Chooser, if your spew has any merit at all, why doesn't Bush get up on national TV and save himself with it? Why is it only pushed by NewsMax and internet kooks such as yourself?

Tell us your nutty conspiracy theory for why Bush does not use your spew to save himself.

(I know you will ignore this, but I enjoy poking you with this subject.)

.

...  posted on  2007-04-04   0:11:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#148. To: BeAChooser, SkyDrifter, Diana (#95)

I find your non-answer to be unsatisfying.

I can only conclude that you are in fact a treasonous queer.

and this taints everything you've ever written. My whole world-view is in crisis now. if you're not even going to defend yourself on this point.

Galatians 3:29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Red Jones  posted on  2007-04-04   9:44:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#149. To: BeAChooser (#113) (Edited)

Say chooser .... why don't you tell us your nutter conspiracy theory for why Bush does not use your spew to save himself.

If there is any merit to the garbage you regurgitate here, then one would expect to hear Bush using it to save himself from the coming < 20% approval rating.

But Bush doesn't use it. From this, one would assume that your spew was just bullshit that NewsMax has fed to gullible goobers like yourself.

Surely there is a nutter conspiracy theory that you run through your mind to avoid confronting this awful realization.

Let's hear it.

.

...  posted on  2007-04-04   10:21:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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