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Title: 2nd Debris Field Found 6 miles from United 93 Crash Site
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URL Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeWi0JpI__M
Published: Mar 27, 2007
Author: CNN
Post Date: 2007-03-27 18:54:41 by honway
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Keywords: None
Views: 877
Comments: 73
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#10. To: Critter (#8)
Thanks for the link. I am watching now.
That is not a reasonable claim,imo.
http://www.post-gazette.com/columnists/20020911roddy0911p5.asp A year after explosive discord, town still seeks harmony Wednesday, September 11, 2002 SHANKSVILLE, Pa. -- As teams of security agents combed the hillsides to make the day's proceedings the safest act of public mourning in history, a town half-tired of being famous soldiered doing what towns do. There was concrete to be laid on one end of town. The high school was in session. At an Amoco station that hasn't sold gasoline for three years, mechanic Bruce Grine stood beneath a rusting Chevy Cavalier and tried to jury-rig a series of bright silver clamps to a leaky rubber tube that was passing itself off as a fuel line. "All day long -- week in, week out -- people come in askin' where the flight site is. Then, where the mine site is," Grine said. A rumble of propellers cut into the midday heat and an Air Force C-130 banked across the town, just through the tree line where the smoke from United Flight 93 had traced a line in the sky one year earlier. "Yesterday we had hellycopters goin'," Grine said. "Security, I guess." No one in town would have had cause to know that it was all practice to make sure the Air Force planes arrived in time to the national anthem during ceremonies today. Before 9/11, Grine told people where he came from by giving them the distance from Pittsburgh. "Now you say Shanksville and everybody knows," he said. That is to say, they have heard of the town and have placed it somewhere in their internal map of civic history, but finding the actual place can still be tricky. The region was settled in the 19th century, meaning the roads represent a compromise to the surrounding mountains. An outsider looking for something can easily get turned around. Even the locals are sometimes unaware of how close they are to a given point, and modern life leaves them unaware of such simple things as the wind currents. The village of New Baltimore is a dozen or more miles by automobile but eight as the wind blows, which it was doing a year ago. Melanie Hankinson was at the church next to her home, transfixed before a television that showed the World Trade Center ablaze, when the man who sprays her lawn stopped by to tell her he was finding odd things in the weeds. "He said there was a loud bang and smoke and then these papers started blowing through your yard," she said. "I said, 'Oh.' Then I went back to the TV." Then the parish priest, the Rev. Allen Zeth, told her an airplane had crashed in Shanksville. For the next few hours, Hankinson gathered charred pages of in-flight magazines, papers from a pilot's manual -- she remembers a map showing the Guadalajara, Mexico, airport -- and copies of stock portfolio monthly earnings reports. "And there was some black webbing -- a lot of people found that," she said. The webbing, flexible where it hadn't burned, crisp where it had, was from insulation lining the belly of the jetliner. "A couple more miles and it could have been here," Hankinson said. Those words have been spoken in straight lines emanating in every direction from the strip mine where Flight 93 rent the earth. In Shanksville, people still wonder at how the unthinkable could have added another layer of hideousness had the plane crested the hillside and struck the high school. A few degrees more, added Grine, "and we wouldn't be here talking." Instead, he was now talking with Brenda Sell, who despaired of getting one broken automobile back before she had to drop off the one she was now driving. Her family business constructed the chain-link fence around the now-filled-in crater where Flight 93 crashed. Beyond that, any commerce connected to the effort troubled her. "I'm getting tired of people setting up little booths and selling stuff," she said. "It's the local people doing that." True, said Grine. His brother is selling funnel cakes and lemonade near the crash site. Others are hawking T-shirts. At the Somerset exit of the Pennsylvania Turnpike, two enterprising women are peddling bouquets of "Freedom Flowers," some of which by now are no doubt crowding a makeshift memorial where, yesterday, such surviving families as could bear the weight stood on an old strip mine and looked down a hill at a chain link fence while airplanes rumbled overhead trying to get in time to the music.
I bet BeAChooser could rationally explain it.
Supporters of Bush and the Iraq war for Israel and oil are traitors to America and they hate American troops.
Map of New Baltimore relative to Shanksville http://maps.yahoo.com/dd_result?newaddr=&taddr=&csz=shanksville%2CPA&country=us&tcsz=New+Baltimore%2CPA&tcountry=us
Light debris - not heavy debris - webbing and the like - you guys are soundling like the found engine parts 8 miles away. That is why you guys lose all credibility you turn a mole hill into a mountain and try to prove something from it.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
For the next few hours, Hankinson gathered charred pages of in-flight magazines, papers from a pilot's manual -- she remembers a map showing the Guadalajara, Mexico, airport -- and copies of stock portfolio monthly earnings reports. "And there was some black webbing -- a lot of people found that," she said. The webbing, flexible where it hadn't burned, crisp where it had, was from insulation lining the belly of the jetliner. Are you saying that paper and other light debris (that was mostly what was found 8 miles away) can't travel that distance on a windy day? Come on guys stop shooting yourselves in the foot.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
How did light material remain airborn for nearly 50 minutes? It had to be high enough in the air to get over trees and such, remember? It wasn't just blowing across an open parking lot or something.
16 minutes into this clip, the spin begins:
#11. To: Critter (#9)
9 knots is 10.3 mph. In order for debris to be blown 8 miles, it would have had to remain airborn for about 50 minutes. 50 minutes!
#12. To: Critter (#9)
he FBI is saying debris was found 8 miles away. They say that it was found to the southwest, and that there was a 9 knot wind blowing to the southwest. They said that the NTSB said not only is it feasible for lightweight debris to be carried 8 miles in that wind, but probable.
#13. To: Critter, honway (#9)
Is that about as ludicrous a contention as you ever heard?
#14. To: All (#12)
#15. To: All (#14)
#16. To: honway, Critter (#12)
#17. To: wbales (#13)
I bet BeAChooser could rationally explain it.
#18. To: Destro (#16)
A new truth movement friendly digg type site: Zlonk it!
#19. To: Critter (#18)
That is your made up calculation on how long the material remained airborne - and the light material in question is paper and webbing straps and the like - paper can fall down be picked up by the wind and fall down again - happens in parks all the time. Or do you claim that heavy airplane parts were found 8 miles away?
How did light material remain airborn for nearly 50 minutes?
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#20. To: honway (#14)
I guess the wind was blowing in two directions that day. To the southeast and to the north.
A new truth movement friendly digg type site: Zlonk it!
#21. To: Destro (#19)
How did it get over trees, hills, and other terrain? Light material catches on things like shrubs, in trees, in high grass... At 10 mph it would takle fifty minutes flying straight there without ever landing. That is not some whipped out of thin air guess. Physics got suspended in shanksville too on 9/11?
A new truth movement friendly digg type site: Zlonk it!
#22. To: Critter (#21)
and who says some did not? The debris filed was not blank in between - there was a wind carried trail all the way the wind blew. Want to carry an experiment? Take a bag of paper and other light materials and scatter into the wind on a day like that day and a similar field and see how far it carries. You would be surprised.
How did it get over trees, hills, and other terrain? Light material catches on things like shrubs, in trees, in high grass...
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#23. To: Destro (#22)
It will blow to the first tree line and die. Knock off the BS.
A new truth movement friendly digg type site: Zlonk it!
#24. To: Critter (#23)
The trees are made of tar? You cut out the fantasy land BS.
It will blow to the first tree line and die. Knock off the BS.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#25. To: Destro (#24) (Edited)
Now I know you're a shill. I suspected it in the past, but tried to give you the benefit of the doubt. Anyone that wants to see what this debris had to magically fly over, go to google maps, enter Shanksville, PA, and then click on Hybrid on the upper right corner. You'll see what the magic debris had to traverse to get to New Baltimore. New Baltimore in slightly south and very east of Shanksville.
A new truth movement friendly digg type site: Zlonk it!
#26. To: Critter (#25)
That is the sign of lunacy when you think anyone who disagrees with you is a shill or an agent, etc. That line is used when you guys can't fight back usually. You are upset because I ruined your party and you can't deny that no airplane parts were found 8 miles away - a position you guys were hinting at but dared not say because you can't back it up. By the way, I don't deny that there was a possible if not probable conspiracy on 9/11 involving the highest levels of officialdom - I just think you are being delusional in looking for jets being shot down or explosions being carried out by squibbs, etc.
Now I know you're a shill. I suspected it in the past, but tried to give you the benefit of the doubt.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#27. To: Destro (#22)
Do this. Find a bridge. Drop pages of a newspaper off the bridge in a 10 mph wind. Watch how far the newspaper pages are blown by the wind.
Want to carry an experiment? Take a bag of paper and other light materials and scatter into the wind on a day like that day and a similar field and see how far it carries. You would be surprised.
#28. To: Destro (#26)
If debris was influenced by wind in the manner you suggest, every time there was a 10 mph wind and leaves were falling we would expect leaves to travel miles before reaching the ground.
#29. To: honway (#27)
If you do the google map hybrid thing, you'll see that the debris had to cross, one, maybe two ridgelines, and probably the PA turnpike on its journey. lmao!
A new truth movement friendly digg type site: Zlonk it!
#30. To: honway (#28)
Cool! I never have to rake again! Oh wait, I'll have to rake the guy's leaves who lives 10 miles the other way. Shit.
If debris was influenced by wind in the manner you suggest, every time there was a 10 mph wind and leaves were falling we would expect leaves to travel miles before reaching the ground.
A new truth movement friendly digg type site: Zlonk it!
#31. To: honway (#27)
I live in NY city I see paper blow many miles.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#32. To: Critter, honway (#30)
If the 8 miles away paper and light fabric debris trail is proof Flt 93 was shot down - where are the airplane parts that would be part of the falling debris rain along those 8 miles? All you have is paper and fabric. Shucks.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#33. To: Critter (#20)
You must be onto something if Destro is here trying to distract you.
I guess the wind was blowing in two directions that day. To the southeast and to the north.
"First they ignore you. Then they ridicule you. Then they fight you. Then you win." --Mahatma K. Gandhi
#34. To: Destro (#32)
Well lets think about that for a minute. What would carry farther in the wind from an altidtude of say 10,000 feet? From up there, I could see lightweight debris floating on the breeze for a bunch of miles. Heavier debris would carry less far in the wind and land closer to the main wreckage. The evidence points much more toward being shot down than crashing.
If the 8 miles away paper and light fabric debris trail is proof Flt 93 was shot down - where are the airplane parts that would be part of the falling debris rain along those 8 miles?
A new truth movement friendly digg type site: Zlonk it!
#35. To: Destro (#31)
Can you explain why they did not find debris from American Flight 77 eight miles away?
#36. To: angle, honway (#33)
Actually, Honway was onto it before me, and I'm just going along for the ride. hehehe But you're right. Destro seems pretty desperate to hide this little goodie.
A new truth movement friendly digg type site: Zlonk it!
#37. To: Destro (#17) (Edited)
Extremely UNlikely given the angle of the crash--almost straight in. The close up of the impact crater, here: http://stj911.org/ evidence/flight93.html#debris_fields shows papers laying about but NO identifiable plane parts: how can paper survive but identifiable plane parts not?? Perhaps, this is the same type of indestrucable paper product from which a highjackers passport was made from-- the one found on the New York City sidewalk after the WTC conflagration. Light debris would get caught up in terrain features prior to traveling 8 miles. Further, an engine core was reported to have been found 2000 feet from the impact crater. Another point: the burned trees adjacent to the impact crater indicate the jet was traveling west.
Are you saying that paper and other light debris (that was mostly what was found 8 miles away) can't travel that distance on a windy day? Come on guys stop shooting yourselves in the foot.
Supporters of Bush and the Iraq war for Israel and oil are traitors to America and they hate American troops.
#38. To: Critter (#25)
I don't really know what happened to United 93, but if I get your implication, you beleive that Flight 93 was shot down? If that is so, why would the "extra" debris field be located "slightly south and very east of Shanksville"? Presumably the "extra" debris would be caused by a primary impact of a missile with the known debris field being the final crash site. In other words, a missile hits the plane at point "A" causing the "extra" debris field and then the plane continues on for a bit until it crashes at point "B". The problem with this hypothesis is that the plane's flight path was from the northwest. Which means that if there was a primary impact, i.e. from the missile, it would be north and west of Shanksville, not south and east. How do you account for that?
New Baltimore in slightly south and very east of Shanksville.
#39. To: wbales (#37)
you got it!
shows papers laying about but NO identifiable plane parts: how can paper survive but identifiable plane parts not?? Perhaps, this is the same type of indestrucable paper product from which a highjackers passport was made from-- the one found on the New York City sidewalk after the WTC conflagration.
#40. To: Critter (#30)
Oh wait, I'll have to rake the guy's leaves who lives 10 miles the other way. Shit. funny :P
Cool! I never have to rake again!
#41. To: Critter, angle, honway (#36)
Um, no. Not hiding anything. You guys weaken the level of discourse here. You are Freepers in mentality if no in loyalty.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#42. To: wbales, loopy (#37) (Edited)
Paper was reported in various stages of intactness from partially burned to intact. If it was blown up in the air the momentum would have carried parts over but it did not. I see plane parts everywhere around the impact zone- the plane broke up into small pieces - there are no substantial plane debris outside the impact area. Thus using fabric and paper bits found some miles away downwind as proof it was shot down is weak at best - deceptive at worst. When things explode in the air traveling at speed they don't fall straight down - they fall towards their previous momentum. Newtonian physics. PS: I hold an airframe and power plant license since High School.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#43. To: Destro (#42)
Well then. I thought you worked for a steel plant. Twenty-Five Ways To Suppress Truth: The Rules of Disinformation 'It is the job of a disinfo artist to interfere with these evaluations... to at least make people think the links are weak or broken when, in truth, they are not... or to propose alternative solutions leading away from the truth. 8. Invoke authority. Claim for yourself or associate yourself with authority and present your argument with enough 'jargon' and 'minutia' to illustrate you are 'one who knows', and simply say it isn't so without discussing issues or demonstrating concretely why or citing sources.
PS: I hold an airframe and power plant license since High School.
"First they ignore you. Then they ridicule you. Then they fight you. Then you win." --Mahatma K. Gandhi
#44. To: All, christine (#43) (Edited)
"First they ignore you. Then they ridicule you. Then they fight you. Then you win." --Mahatma K. Gandhi
#45. To: angle (#43) (Edited)
I did. I graduated a vocational aviation high school - I got a high school diploma while I was taking shop courses. Since my grades were good enough I went to college and never worked in the field. Honey Pot Operation: A honey pot operation, is one in which the government attracts overwhelming attention to an easily disprovable issue, making it the cornerstone of for example the 9/11 truth movement. According to Chris Farrell, the Director of Investigations & Research at Judicial Watch a honey pot operation is "a baited trap, it draws somebody into a situation in which they're compromised."
Well then. I thought you worked for a steel plant.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#46. To: Destro (#45)
I guess you got your power plant license in high school as well. Did you learn the aerodynamics of debris there as well? And, conveniently, you work in a steel plant? Simply amazing coincidence.
"First they ignore you. Then they ridicule you. Then they fight you. Then you win." --Mahatma K. Gandhi
#47. To: honway, Christine, Brian S, Robin, Aristeides, Red Jones, Diana, Kamala, All (#2)
The answer is that the debris fields came out of the ass-end of a C-130. {Hey BAC, you evade the Flight 93 issue; any comments, yet? In fact, your silence on the topic - when I was building up my web site - was my clue that something important was to be discovered there.}
#48. To: angle (#46)
No longer, we were taken over in a hostile takeover and I started a new job - in the print media!! It's a conspiracy!!! I also went to school to get my teaching license but never finished that because the private sector paid better.
I guess you got your power plant license in high school as well. Did you learn the aerodynamics of debris there as well? And, conveniently, you work in a steel plant? Simply amazing coincidence.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#49. To: angle (#46)
Yup - my A&P by 18. Never worked in the field though. I went to the vocational school to avoid my zone school which was in the ghetto. As a white guy I did not want to be a human target at my designated ghetto school and my parents were too poor to send me to private school.
I guess you got your power plant license in high school as well
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#50. To: AGAviator (#43)
Du bist piloten, ja? any info you can add?
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
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