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Title: Did Hitler have a base in the Antarctic? John Whitfield wonders why fringe fantasies get attracted to the edges of the Earth.
Source:
nature.com
URL Source: http://www.nature.com/news/2007/070326/full/070326-14.html
Published: Mar 30, 2007
Author: John Whitfield
Post Date: 2007-04-01 13:34:47 by Destro
Keywords: Hitler, Antartica
Views: 1222
Comments: 81
Published online: 30 March 2007; | doi:10.1038/news070326-14 muse@nature.com: Did Hitler have a base in the Antarctic? John Whitfield After the initial flurry of interest, International Polar Year (IPY, launched this March) seems to have gone a bit quiet. I propose pepping things up with a good conspiracy theory. Handily, a recent paper in Polar Record1 describes one. The Nazis, some believe, established a secret base in Antarctica to which they spirited Hitler at the war's end, fought off British special forces and an American military taskforce, partly by shooting down US planes using flying saucers. The Americans eventually destroyed the base with nuclear weapons in the 1950s. Since then, various governments have striven to conceal this. In this light, it's no effort to re-imagine Antarctic explorations proposed under the aegis of IPY. A quick tour of the website reveals a project entitled 'Exploring Antarctic Dry Valleys in Preparation for Mars Landings'. It seems scarcely less unlikely that this could really be a mission to recover Nazi treasure or technologies. Like all good conspiracy theories, this one is built on a skeleton of facts. There was a German expedition to Antarctica in 1938-39. There was classified British military activity in Antarctica during the war. In July 1945, two months after VE Day, the German submarine U-530 appeared at the Argentine naval base of Mar del Plata. The next month, U-977 did the same. In 1946-47 the US military mounted Operation Highjump, the largest ever Antarctic expedition, consisting of 4,700 men and 13 ships. And in 1958, they carried out three nuclear explosions in the southern hemisphere that were meant to stay secret, but didn't. Dashed debunking However, when you see a paper titled "Hitler's Antarctic base: the myth and the reality," you know that reality is going to disappoint. Using documentary evidence and first-hand experience of Antarctica, Colin Summerhayes of the Scott Polar Research Institute in Cambridge, UK, and Toronto-based Peter Beeching puncture every last bit of the story. To give just a few of their points: the Germans' pre-war visit to Antarctica, concerned mainly with establishing a whaling base, was fleeting, never spending more than a day on the ice shelf. The wartime British force in Antarctica was tiny, and concerned mainly with observation and securing territorial claims to the islands around the Falklands. The U-boats were in the southern ocean during the Antarctic winter, when the pack ice would have made it impossible for them to reach the coast. The US atomic tests in the 1950s took place around Tristan da Cunha, thousands of kilometres from Antarctica. It doesn't help that the various conspiracists haven't got their story straight. The proposed location for the Nazi base (often a cavern under the ice) has wandered around over most of the Norwegian Antarctic territory of Dronning Maud Land. And it's not agreed whether the submarines were carrying Hitler himself, or just his ashes. Taking 21 peer-reviewed pages to address this looks like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut. The story ends up being indulged and damned simultaneously, in the same way that highbrow papers report celebrity goings-on by harrumphing over the lowbrow media's obsession with them (a situation which, I confess, sounds mildly familiar). And Summerhayes and Beeching face the problem of all scientists trying to engage with unreason. If the people advancing this kind of stuff — one of whom was recently jailed for holocaust denial — cared about the evidence, they wouldn't be where they are in the first place. But Summerhayes says that he needed to take a stand. "These theories are incredibly popular among Germans and Russians," he says. "You can either leave it alone, or you can say 'hang on...'." Debunking the story was "a lot of fun — I became hooked", he says. "I'm using it as an exercise to educate people about Antarctic science." Or at least to raise the icy continent's press exposure. Attracted to the fringe The polar regions are a particularly good spot for a conspiracy theory. Until recently, the people that went there had a habit of not coming back. And when they did, they told stories of unimaginable cold and wind, freezing deserts, strange creatures and mind-boggling hardship. More recently we've witnessed the collapse of thousands of square kilometres of ice shelf and discovered giant underground lakes. Small wonder that the ice has become a screen on which to project lurid imaginings. If you can imagine Amundsen's expedition eating their huskies at 40 below, it's not such a stretch to picture Adolf and Eva chipping ice from the walls of their lair to chill their G 'n' Ts. Lob in some UFOs, and all that's missing for the perfect contemporary myth is a link to 9/11. Polar myth-making has gone on for centuries. The Greeks and medieval Europeans imagined Thule, a land off the northern edge of the map. Off the top of my head, I can think of Frankenstein pursuing his monster to the Arctic, Superman's Arctic fortress of solitude, and the secret alien Antarctic bases in the X Files movie and Alien vs Predator. There's an evening I'll not get back. Many of the world's pollutants concentrate in the polar regions, carried there by wind and ocean currents. For some reason something similar seems to happen with our fantasies. References
John Whitfield wonders why fringe fantasies get attracted to the edges of the Earth.
Summerhayes C. & Beeching P. Polar Record , 43 . 1 - 21 (2007).
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#22. To: Destro (#12)
You misunderstood. I want you to name right wing groups that subscribe to this nonsense. Can't do it, can you?
Of course I can. You have not mastered Google yet? This delusion is a European phenomenon mostly - just like the American wing nut right wing thought that black helicopters and UN shock troops were invading America in the 90s but such a delusion was not part of the wing nut European right wing thinking. That is probably why Americans who jerk off to Nazi stuff never heard of this. As a European traveler I have see these books sold on the street though. Savitri Devi With the fall of the Third Reich, Esoteric Hitlerism took off as Hitler, who had died at the end of the war, was now able to be deified. Savitri Devi was the first major exponent of post-war Esoteric Hitlerism[7]. She connected Hitler’s Aryanist ideology to that of the pan-Hindu part of the Indian Independence movement[8], and activists such as Subhas Chandra Bose.[9] For her, the swastika was an especially important symbol, as it symbolized the Aryan unity amongst the Hindus and Germans (and was also a symbol of good fortune for the Tibetans). Savitri Devi[10] integrated Nazism into a broader cyclical framework of Hindu history. She considered Hitler an avatar of Vishnu (the final avatar before Kalki) and called him “the god-like Individual of our times; the Man against Time; the greatest European of all times”[11], having an ideal vision of returning his Aryan people to an earlier, more perfect time, and also having the practical wherewithal to fight the destructive forces "in Time". She saw his defeat —and the forestalling of his vision from coming to fruition — as a result of him being "too magnanimous, too trusting, too good", of not being merciless enough, of having in his "psychological make-up, too much 'sun' [beneficence] and not enough 'lightning.' [practical ruthlessness]”[12]; unlike his coming incarnation: “ "Kalki” will act with unprecedented ruthlessness. Contrarily to Adolf Hitler, He will spare not a single one of the enemies of the divine Cause: not a single one of its outspoken opponents but also not a single one of the luke-warm, of the opportunists, of the ideologically heretical, of the racially bastardised, of the unhealthy, of the hesitating, of the all-too-human; not a single one of those who, in body or in character or mind, bear the stamp of the fallen Ages.[13] ” Miguel Serrano The next major figure in Esoteric Hitlerism is Miguel Serrano, a Chilean diplomat. He wrote both The Golden Ribbon--Esoteric Hitlerism and Adolf Hitler, the Last Avatar. He believes that Hitler was in Shambhala, an underground centre in Antarctica (formerly at the North Pole and Tibet), where he was in contact with the Hyperborean gods and from whence he would someday emerge with a fleet of UFOs to lead the forces of light (the Hyperboreans, sometimes associated with Vril) over the forces of darkness (inevitably including, for Serrano, the Jews who follow Jehova) in a last battle and thus inaugurating a Fourth Reich. Serrano follows the Cathar Gnostics in identifying the evil creator of this world, the Demiurge with Jehovah, the god of Judaism. Gnostics believe the Demiurge is evil because he created the world to entrap our souls in matter. He also connects the Aryans and their Hyperborean gods to the Sun and to the esoteric Black Sun and the Allies and the Jews to the Moon. He had a special place in his ideology for the SS, who, in their quest to recreate the ancient race of Aryan god-men, he thought were above morality and therefore justified. Tempelhofgesellschaft The Tempelhofgesellschaft was founded in Vienna in the early 1990s by Norbert Jurgen-Ratthofer and Ralft Ettl to teach a form of Gnostic religion called Marcionism. The group identifies an "evil creator of this world," the Demiurge with Jehovah, the god of Judaism. They distribute pamphlets claiming that the Aryan race originally came to Atlantis from the star Aldebaran (this information is based on "ancient Sumerian manuscripts"). They maintain that the Aryans from Aldebaran derive their power from the vril energy of the Black Sun. They teach that since the Aryan race is of extraterrestrial origin, it has a divine mission to dominate all the other races. The writings of Miguel Serrano, Julius Evola, Savitri Devi, and other proponents of Nazi mysticism have spawned numerous later works connecting Aryan master race beliefs and Nazi escape scenarios with enduring conspiracy theories about reptilian humanoids, hollow earth civilizations, and shadowy new world orders. The book Arktos: The Polar Myth in Science, Symbolism, and Nazi Survival, by Hypnerotomachia Poliphili scholar Joscelyn Godwin, discusses pseudoscientific theories regarding surviving Nazi elements in Antarctica. Arktos is noted for its scholarly approach and examination of many sources currently unavailable elsewhere in English-language translation. Godwin and other authors including Nicholas Goodrick-Clarke have also discussed Hitler’s purported Antarctic reptilian companions (sometimes seen to be Hyperboreans[citation needed]) as well as the connections between Nazi mysticism and Vril energy, the hidden Shambhala and Agartha civilizations, and underground UFO bases.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
I thought that had to do with bees spreading some kind of alien control virus. I was a big X-Files fan, but damned if I could make sense out of half of what went on. Maybe that was the point.
The "Department of Defense" has never won a war. The "War Department" was undefeated.
While not a 100% the same there was the underground UFO base in the South Pole and there was a WW2 connection in some of the episodes to the genetic experiments and how the agencies were serving their alien masters. So while not 100% the same - it was derived from this mythology.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Please show me how the above mentioned are connected with right wing organizations.
Define a right wing organization? Someone is buying these books. The right wing in Europe is pretty decentralized so this is not on your American radar screens. This is stuff the extreme right wingers talk about on forums and at pubs and so on and it is believed on an individual basis. PS: I just did a search of all the names above - all over stormfront and other such websites - also available on Youtube!
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
This is my question to you, since it was you who linked them to believers of some hollow earth theory. Stumped, are ya'?
Give me the name of a few such forms.
I did see above #27. Are all native born Americans this retarded?
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
indeed. and somehow jet engines contain a very hot jet fuel fire, in terms of combustion and dont melt...and how bout those afterburners shooting out jets of blue hot flame, yet the plane doesn't melt. same with the engine block on my car.
“All of us should treasure his (John Dillinger) Oriental wisdom and his preaching of a Zen-like detachment, as exemplified by his constant reminder to clerks, tellers, or others who grew excited by his presence in their banks: "Just lie down on the floor and keep calm."” --- Robert Anton Wilson “Intelligence is the capacity to receive, decode and transmit information efficiently. Stupidity is blockage of this process at any point. Bigotry, ideologies etc. block the ability to receive; robotic reality-tunnels block the ability to decode or integrate new signals; censorship blocks transmission.” --- Robert Anton Wilson
These are your words from post #4. I'll ask again, please identify the right wing movement who believe things like a hollow earth. Did you take a test to get into this country, or did you just float over on a log?
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
The above comments is what I would expect when:Study: U.S. students still lag behind in science, math What the steel industry says about steel and fire. http://www.livingsteel.org/structural-safety-3 Find out about the important aspects of structural safety with regard to steel buildings. As the rate and amount of heat flow from the fire environment to steel members increase, the temperature, and thus the risk of failure for the structural member, will also increase. Since the steel has a very high thermal conductivity, exposed member surface easily transmits the conveyed heat flow from the fire source to the whole structure in a short period of time. It also is a well known fact that heat is transmitted in between elements having different temperatures. Even if materials are referred to as non-combustible, like structural steel, this does not guarantee the fire safety of a structure. Steel structural properties and its yield strength considerably decrease as it absorbs heat upon exposure to a high temperature level. On the other hand it must be kept in mind that, steel building members may easily collapse during a fire if the temperature is allowed to reach a critical value. The fire resistance of a steel member is related to some important factors including the section size, the perimeter of the section exposed to fire, place of the member in the protective structural assembly and the steel material thickness. Depending upon structural assembly and the fire occurrence, even the exposed steel may resist fire up to 30 minutes. However the structural steel needs to be protected against fire using the proper insulating materials and methods to control the situation and resist for longer periods. In essence the structure's fire safety is measured by the time of resistance regarding the supplied evacuation time and the level of failure. It also is important to assure that the fire resistance time is sufficient as such that the structure is able to carry the building loads during the duration of the fire. As previously mentioned, steel loses strength and stiffness at high temperature levels just like any other building materials. (That's what I termed steel turning to wet noodles to describe it to simpelton Americans like Christine).
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
No, it is not. It is retarded observation. The war in Iraq has nothing to do with the lingering myth among so called esoteric Nazis of the fringe right wing movement who believe things like a hollow earth, and Nazi UFOs and Hitler's moon base. The myth of Saddam's WMD is alive and well even today. Most Bushniks will tell you that they are now in Syria or in Lebanon or in Iran.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
I just got home - I could not google up Nazi websites at work. Here is one such esoteric Hitler/Nazi society (Black suns and hollow earth types) from http://Stormfront.com (you can tell that it is European from its use of English): “White Traditions” Society Our tools are simple: spirit and a cultural heritage of white mankind, our force and will. It is necessary to bring the weakened spirit of the aryan person in alertness – only it becomes true revival of spirit. Limiting physical and spiritual efforts are managed only for the sake of the high aim in creation of an atmosphere and the precondition for: Today the Society is engaged in creation of the aryan cultural centers in cities where there are its Branches. The Society is not limited to it this, it plans to form business-structure to provide with that primary activity and performance of the purposes. For example, today the Society has officially registered publishing house “Light of the North” and plans the personal printing house. In cooperation with former Russian Heathen Front we from afar books: Vargsmal-II, Hans Gunter “The religious attitudes of Indo Europeans”. From ourselves we plan a series of books under the name “ex nord lux” where will be presented following authors: Guido von List, Herman Wirth, Lanz von Liebenfels, Miguel Serrano, Savitri Devi, etc. Its all is published first time in Russia. In cooperation with Russian Heathen Legion and the Order “Corona Borealis”, we plan to publish the almanac “Imperium”. This reference directed to White brothers and sisters of all World, we call to join our undertaking in revival of White race. Symbols of our Society – the Black Sun and runescript (Tyr and Wunjo) the hidden and secret, space essence, immortality that feeds rotating billions stars of all Universes speak that our lives show the center of eternity and immortality of aryan spirit, inevitability of a victory of the Black Sun which symbolizes waking up spiritual forces of White people, this ours. Rise in our lines, organize Branches, put into practice our ideas! Sites: http://white-society.org - http://lietuva.white-society.org/ I call two of them names here...
#23. To: Jethro Tull (#22)
You misunderstood. I want you to name right wing groups that subscribe to this nonsense. Can't do it, can you?
#24. To: Destro (#19)
Already done. See X-Files the movie.
#25. To: Indrid Cold (#24)
#26. To: Destro (#23)
#27. To: Jethro Tull (#26)
(Edited)
Please show me how the above mentioned are connected with right wing organizations.
#28. To: Destro (#27)
Define a right wing organization?
#29. To: Destro (#27)
This is stuff the extreme right wingers talk about on forums
#30. To: Jethro Tull (#29)
#31. To: Esso (#15)
#32. To: Destro (#30)
(Edited)
"The war in Iraq has nothing to do with the lingering myth among so called esoteric Nazis of the fringe right wing movement who believe things like a hollow earth..." - Destro, #4
#33. To: Jethro Tull (#32)
The right-racist movement as found in Europe and Latin America. Are you incapable of independent research or are you like most Americans fat lazy and stupid? Google the names and see for yourself on their associations. Stormfront is another resource.
#34. To: Esso, christine, gengis gandhi (#15)
My oven melted last night when I tried to cook a frozen pizza. Then I tried to make some soup and the pot melted, then the grates that hold the pot off the fire melted. indeed. and somehow jet engines contain a very hot jet fuel fire, in terms of combustion and dont melt...and how bout those afterburners shooting out jets of blue hot flame, yet the plane doesn't melt...same with the engine block on my car.
#35. To: Destro (#4)
good observation.
#36. To: Jethro Tull (#32)
(Edited)
1. occurrence of the New Human, the Solar Human;
2. creating of White Empire.
E-mail: vidarr88@yahoo.com
Here is Miguel Serrano's speech on YouTube. Spanish with English subtitles. This is the guy who is a superstar among these types. You can see him at a large rally.
They are all over the internet but mostly in Europe especially in German and suprisingly in Russian/Ukranian as well as in Latin America.
Satisfied now or do I need to do more work for you?
I think in America people who are attracted to these nazi/racialist rightwing movements would freak out at the talk of hidden suns and UFOs and hidden earth and so on. So it has not had much of a distribution in the USA though some in Canada. So this is mostly a European far right racialist delusion/mythology. In America we find our own unique delusional/mythology among the far right that the far right of Europe does not share - the Black Helicopters and the belief of UN invasion forces were about to take over in the 90s. I told this to some I knew in Europe and they laughed at this notion and wondered why the UN would not also invade Western Europe as well? My answer? The American wing-nuts think Europe is on the side of the Antichrist and where a new Roman empire will form and they laughed even harder.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#37. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#35) (Edited)
Most Bushniks will tell you that they are now in Syria or in Lebanon or in Iran. True that - but that has not risen to the level of a religion complete with UFOs and hidden earths, etc. That is a little different than those retards who think Saddam snuck out the WMD to Syria under the nose of the whole US airforce.
The myth of Saddam's WMD is alive and well even today.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#38. To: Destro (#37)
There are no UFOs, agreed, but they do have truck convoys. I am not familiar with the Hitler cults but it's possible that not all of them involve extraterrestrials.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
#39. To: a vast rightwing conspirator, Jethro Tull (#38)
I wonder why Jethro Tull here freaked out at the notion of these esoteric Hitler UFO cults among European and Latin American racialist rightists? I know Americans are insulated about the world but that is easily overcome with some reading. Youtube is available if you don't like reading.
There are no UFOs, agreed, but they do have truck convoys. I am not familiar with the Hitler cults but it's possible that not all of them involve extraterrestrials.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#40. To: Destro (#36)
Please explain how the fascism of national socialism is right wing?
#41. To: BTP Holdings (#17)
hehehehehe...empty cranium syndrome. What a dickhead.
#42. To: Esso (#15)
I told you don't try this at home.
My oven melted last night when I tried to cook a frozen pizza. Then I tried to make some soup and the pot melted, then the grates that hold the pot off the fire melted.
"People like truth, it gives us a fucking benchmark." - dakmar
#43. To: Destro (#36)
Stormfront? That's your answer to everything.
"People like truth, it gives us a fucking benchmark." - dakmar
#44. To: Destro, Jethro Tull, christine (#39)
UFO cults, Destro? You are the only person here that yammers on about UFO cults.
I wonder why Jethro Tull here freaked out at the notion of these esoteric Hitler UFO cults
"People like truth, it gives us a fucking benchmark." - dakmar
#45. To: Dakmar (#43)
Go easy on our resident illegal alien, Dak. He might haul ass back to herzegovina, lickety split.
#46. To: Jethro Tull, Dakmar (#45) (Edited)
Not a Yugoslavian - but I may help them on occasion. It's OK most Americans can't find Washington, DC on a map let alone an obscure region in the Balkans.
Go easy on our resident illegal alien, Dak. He might haul ass back to herzegovina, lickety split.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#47. To: Jethro Tull (#40)
I agree that it does not fit using the French system started by the first National Assembly during the French Revolution, where liberal (small L) deputies from the Third Estate generally sat to the left of the president's chair, a habit which began in the Estates General of 1789. The nobility, members of the Second Estate, generally sat to the right. In the successive legislative assemblies, monarchists who supported the Ancien Régime were commonly referred to as rightists because they sat on the right side. In that sense the Founding Fathers were liberals (again the term is different that how Americans have begun to use the term in their own country) because they were anti power to clergy and anti monarchists. In modern day usage the term rightist and leftist varies from how it applies to each nation's political spectrum. It is not my fault that the Nazi types are called extreme right wingers, I understand that many on the right would prefer they be called extreme left wingers along with the Commies. I did not classify the Nazis as extreme right wing - it is a usage that was inherited and for me to change the meaning would confuse people. With that in mind. the term far right is usually applied to those who support authoritarianism, usually involving a dominant class (which may be aristocratic or defined along racial or other lines), and/or an established church (although some forms of far right—for example, elements of the militia movement in the United States—are devolutionist). Their favored authoritarian state can be an absolute monarchy, but more often today it is some form of oligarchy and military dictatorship (see fascism). This is most true in regions and nations that have no real history of monarchy, such as Central America (discounting the Pre-Columbian era), Switzerland, and the United States. The term "far right" also embraces extreme nationalism, and will often evoke the ideal of a "pure" ideal of the nation, often defined on racial or "blood" grounds. They may advocate the expansion or restructuring of existing state borders to achieve this ideal nation, often to the point of embracing expansionary war, racialism, jingoism and imperialism. In the English-speaking nations this is often a nationalism descended from the militant aspects of British New Imperialism. Hence the groups labelled far- right often embrace state churches, harshly retributive justice, and militarism. More generally, the term "far-right" has been applied to any stream of political thought that rejects democracy in favour of some form of elite rule (including monarchy, plutocracy, and theocracy).
Please explain how the fascism of national socialism is right wing?
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#48. To: Destro (#47)
I hear you; you have no answer to my question. Thank-you Mr. Destro. Your log back to Bosnia awaits your confused butt.
I did not classify the Nazis as extreme right wing - it is a usage that was inherited and for me to change the meaning would confuse people.
#49. To: Destro (#46)
Oh bullshit. All an American needs to do to find DC is look for highly concentrated herd of non-working Blacks, with a small group of elitists in the middle of them.
It's OK most Americans can't find Washington, DC on a map
#50. To: Jethro Tull (#49)
Suck it Nazi fag.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#51. To: Jethro Tull (#48)
Nazis are the extreme right wing. Deal with it Nazi fag.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#52. To: gengis gandhi, all (#31)
same with the engine block on my car. You've just proven beyond any doubt why the WTCs did not collapse from fire. It doesn't take a physics professor to figure it out. Evidently the sheople are pretty damned stupid.
indeed. and somehow jet engines contain a very hot jet fuel fire, in terms of combustion and dont melt...and how bout those afterburners shooting out jets of blue hot flame, yet the plane doesn't melt.
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition
In a CorporoFascist capitalist society, there is no money in peace, freedom, or a healthy population, and therefore, no incentive to achieve these.
- - IndieTX
"Peace? There's no money in peace! What we need is a war!"
--Three Stooges
#53. To: Destro, jethro tull, all (#51)
Nazis are National SOCIALISTS...the left wing. Thou doesn't know thine history or thine culture.
Destro: Nazis are the extreme right wing
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition
In a CorporoFascist capitalist society, there is no money in peace, freedom, or a healthy population, and therefore, no incentive to achieve these.
- - IndieTX
"Peace? There's no money in peace! What we need is a war!"
--Three Stooges
#54. To: IndieTX (#53)
George Washington is also on the left wing of the political spectrum of the French Assembly. Economics is not a determinant.
the left wing. Thou doesn't know thine history or thine culture.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#55. To: IndieTX (#52)
All it proved is that you guys suck at science and such thinking discredits you types as ill educated kooks and rubes.
You've just proven beyond any doubt why the WTCs did not collapse from fire. It doesn't take a physics professor to figure it out. Evidently the sheople are pretty damned stupid.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#56. To: Destro (#54)
What does George Washington have to do with you erroneously thinking Nazis are on the right?
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition
In a CorporoFascist capitalist society, there is no money in peace, freedom, or a healthy population, and therefore, no incentive to achieve these.
- - IndieTX
"Peace? There's no money in peace! What we need is a war!"
--Three Stooges
#57. To: Destro (#55)
Ad hominems is all you can muster? Get back in the can.
All it proved is that you guys suck at science
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition
In a CorporoFascist capitalist society, there is no money in peace, freedom, or a healthy population, and therefore, no incentive to achieve these.
- - IndieTX
"Peace? There's no money in peace! What we need is a war!"
--Three Stooges
#58. To: IndieTX (#57) (Edited)
Yea, I did @#34. Here it is again. What the steel industry says about steel and fire. http://www.livingsteel.org/structural- safety-3 Find out about the important aspects of structural safety with regard to steel buildings. As the rate and amount of heat flow from the fire environment to steel members increase, the temperature, and thus the risk of failure for the structural member, will also increase. Since the steel has a very high thermal conductivity, exposed member surface easily transmits the conveyed heat flow from the fire source to the whole structure in a short period of time. It also is a well known fact that heat is transmitted in between elements having different temperatures. Even if materials are referred to as non-combustible, like structural steel, this does not guarantee the fire safety of a structure. Steel structural properties and its yield strength considerably decrease as it absorbs heat upon exposure to a high temperature level. On the other hand it must be kept in mind that, steel building members may easily collapse during a fire if the temperature is allowed to reach a critical value. The fire resistance of a steel member is related to some important factors including the section size, the perimeter of the section exposed to fire, place of the member in the protective structural assembly and the steel material thickness. Depending upon structural assembly and the fire occurrence, even the exposed steel may resist fire up to 30 minutes. However the structural steel needs to be protected against fire using the proper insulating materials and methods to control the situation and resist for longer periods. In essence the structure's fire safety is measured by the time of resistance regarding the supplied evacuation time and the level of failure. It also is important to assure that the fire resistance time is sufficient as such that the structure is able to carry the building loads during the duration of the fire. As previously mentioned, steel loses strength and stiffness at high temperature levels just like any other building materials. (That's what I termed steel turning to wet noodles to describe it to simpelton Americans like Christine).
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#59. To: Destro, jethro tull, robin, lodwick (#58) (Edited)
Let's assume I give you the argument that a steel building will melt [and collapse] from a kerosene and office furniture fire. [laughable] Then how do you explain the information in this article? www.freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=49362 How do you explain this fact: Excepting the three 9-11 collapses, no fire, however severe, has ever caused a steel-framed high-rise building to collapse. Following are examples of high-rise fires that were far more severe than those in WTC 1 and 2, and Building 7. In these precedents, the fires consumed multiple floors, produced extensive window breakage, exhibited large areas of emergent flames, and went on for several hours. The fires in the WTC towers did none of these things. These and many other steel-building fires were of far greater intensity than the fires observed at WTC-7, but those other buildings didn't so much as bend, let alone collapse symmetricaly and perfectly vertically. OH I know! The laws of chemistry and physics changed on 9-11!!!
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition
In a CorporoFascist capitalist society, there is no money in peace, freedom, or a healthy population, and therefore, no incentive to achieve these.
- - IndieTX
"Peace? There's no money in peace! What we need is a war!"
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#60. To: Destro (#58) (Edited)
LOL! Yeah right. Totally destroyed by common sense and high school physics. So they are vulnerable...not proof the WTCs collapsed due to fire. Besides, it's already been proven the pancake collapse was impossible without help.
Find out about the important aspects of structural safety with regard to steel buildings.
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition
In a CorporoFascist capitalist society, there is no money in peace, freedom, or a healthy population, and therefore, no incentive to achieve these.
- - IndieTX
"Peace? There's no money in peace! What we need is a war!"
--Three Stooges
#61. To: IndieTX, jethro tull, robin, lodwick (#59)
Simple, simpleton. A) They were built differently internally. B) No friggin jetliner crashed into them at full throttle which damaged the structural integrity and at the same time stripped off the fireproofing that the above buildings had in place. Why do you friggin retards always bring up skyrise fires and ignore the fact that the steel beams in them had their fireproofing remain intact which was a major factor in the structural failure of the Twin Towers.
How do you explain this fact
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#62. To: IndieTX (#60)
Then you must work for the steel industry, right?
LOL! Yeah right. Totally destroyed by common sense and high school physics.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
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