See other Dead Constitution Articles
Title: The J.F. K. Flap
Source:
Lew Rockwell
URL Source: http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard147.html
Published: Apr 5, 2007
Author: Murray Rothbard
Post Date: 2007-04-05 05:48:34 by Zoroaster
Keywords: None
Views: 823
Comments: 64
The J.F.K. Flap by Murray N. Rothbard by Murray N. Rothbard DIGG THIS This essay originally appeared in the May 1992 issue of The Rothbard-Rockwell Report. The most fascinating thing about JFK, as exciting and well-done as it is, is not the movie itself but the hysterical attempt to marginalize, if not to suppress it. How many movies can you remember where the entire Establishment, in serried ranks, from left (The Nation) through Center to Right, joined together as one in a frantic orgy of calumny and denunciation. Time and Newsweek actually doing so before the movie came out? Apparently, so fearful was the Establishment that the Oliver Stone movie might prove convincing that the public had to be thoroughly inoculated in advance. It was a remarkable performance by the media, and it demonstrates, as nothing else, the enormous and growing gap between Respectable Media opinion and what the public Knows in its Heart. You would think from the shock of the Respectable Media, that Stone's JFK was totally outlandish, off-the-wall, monstrous and fanciful in its accusations against the American power structure. And you would think that historical films never engaged in dramatic license, as if such solemnly hailed garbage as Wilson and Sunrise at Campobello had been models of scholarly precision. Hey, come off it guys! Despite the fuss and feathers, to veteran Kennedy Assassination buffs, there was nothing new in JFK. What Stone does is to summarize admirably the best of a veritable industry of assassination revisionism – of literally scores of books, articles, tapes, annual conventions, and archival research. Stone himself is quite knowledgeable in the area, as shown by his devastating answer in the Washington Post, to the smears of the last surviving Warren Commission member, Gerald Ford, and the old Commission hack, David W. Belin. Despite the smears in the press, there was nothing outlandish in the movie. Interestingly enough, JFK has been lambasted much more furiously than was the first revisionist movie, Don Freed's Executive Action (1973), an exciting film with Robert Ryan and Will Geer, which actually did go way beyond the evidence, and beyond plausibility, by trying to make an H.L. Hunt figure the main conspirator. The evidence is now overwhelming that the orthodox Warren legend, that Oswald did it and did it alone, is pure fabrication. It now seems clear that Kennedy died in a classic military triangulation hit, that, as Parkland Memorial autopsy pathologist Dr. Charles Crenshaw has very recently affirmed, the fatal shots were fired from in front, from the grassy knoll, and that the conspirators were, at the very least, the right-wing of the CIA, joined by its long-time associates and employees, the Mafia. It is less well established that President Johnson himself was in on the original hit, though he obviously conducted the coordinated cover-up, but certainly his involvement is highly plausible. The last-ditch defenders of the Warren view cannot refute the details, so they always fall back on generalized vaporings, such as: "How could all the government be in on it?" But since Watergate, we have all become familiar with the basic fact: only a few key people need be in on the original crime, while lots of high and low government officials can be in on the subsequent cover-up, which can always be justified as "patriotic," on "national security" grounds, or simply because the president ordered it. The fact that the highest levels of the U.S. government are all-too capable of lying to the public, should have been clear since Watergate and Iran-Contra. The final fallback argument, getting less plausible all the time is: if the Warren case isn't true, why hasn't the truth come out by this time? The fact is, however, that the truth has largely come out, in the assassination industry, from books – some of them best-sellers – by Mark Lane, David Lifton, Peter Dale Scott, Jim Marrs, and many others, but the Respectable Media pay no attention. With that sort of mindset, that stubborn refusal to face reality, no truth can ever come out. And yet, despite this blackout, because books, local TV and radio, magazine articles, supermarket tabloids, etc. can't be suppressed – but only ignored – by the Respectable Media, we have the remarkable result that the great majority of the public, in all the polls, strongly disbelieve the Warren legend. Hence, the frantic attempts of the Establishment to suppress as gripping and convincing a film as Stone's JFK. Conservatives, as well as centrists, are smearing JFK because Stone is a notorious leftist. Well, so what? It is not simply that the ideology of the teller has no logical bearing on the truth of the tale. The case is stronger than that. For in a day when the Moderate Left to Moderate Right constitute an increasingly monolithic Establishment, with only nuanced variations among them, we can only get the truth from people outside the Establishment, either on the far right or far left, or even from the highly non-respectable supermarket tabloids. And it is no accident that it is an open secret that the heroic "Deep Throat" figure in JFK is Colonel Fletcher Prouty, who is certainly no leftist. And one of the outstanding Revisionist writers is the long-time libertarian Carl Oglesby. One particularly welcome aspect of JFK, by the way, is its making Jim Garrison the central heroic figure. Garrison, one of the most viciously smeared figures in modern political history, was simply a district attorney trying to do his job in the most important criminal case of our time. Kevin Costner's expressionless style fits in well with the Garrison role, and Tommy Lee Jones is outstanding as the evil CIA-businessman conspirator Clay Shaw. All in all, a fine movie, for the history as well as the cinematics. There are some minor problems. It is unfortunate that the founding Kennedy Revisionist Mark Lane, felt that he had to leave the movie-making early, with the result that the film does not bring out the crucial testimony of Cuban ex-CIA agent Marita Lorenz, who has identified right-wing CIA operative E. Howard Hunt, Bill Buckley's pal and control in the CIA, as paymaster for the assassination. (See the brilliant new book by Lane, Plausible Denial.) According to Lane, heat from the CIA during the filming led Stone to underplay the CIA's role by spreading the blame a little too thickly to the rest of the Johnson administration. As the case for revisionism piles up, there is evidence that some of the more sophisticated members of the Establishment are preparing to jettison the Warren legend, and fall back on an explanation less threatening than blaming E. Howard Hunt or the CIA: that is to lay blame solely on the Mafia, specifically on Sam Giancana, Johnny Roselli, and Jimmy Hoffa, none of whom are around to debate the issue. A convincing attack on the Mafia-only thesis was leveled by Carl Oglesby in his Afterward to Jim Garrison's book of a few years back (which formed one of the bases for JFK) On the Trail of the Assassins. The Mafia simply did not have the resources, for example, to change the route or call off military or Secret Service protection. Many conservatives and libertarians will surely be irritated by one theme of the film: the old-fashioned view of Kennedy as the shining young prince of Camelot, the great hero about to redeem America who was chopped down in his prime by dark reactionary forces. That sort of attitude has long been discredited by a very different kind of Revisionism – as tales have come out about the sleazy Kennedy brothers, Judith Exner, Sam Giancana, Marilyn Monroe, et al. Well, OK, but look at it this way: a president was murdered, for heaven's sake, and good, bad, or indifferent, it is surely vital to get to the bottom of the conspiracy, and bring the villains to justice, if only at the bar of history. Let the chips fall where they may. One happy result of the film was the conclusive Stoneian argument: if everything is on the up and up, why not open up all the secret government files on the assassination? It looks as if the pressure for opening will win out, but once again, phony "national security" will prevail, so we won't get the really incriminating stuff. And some of the crucial material is long gone, e.g., the famed Kennedy brain, which mysteriously never made it into the National Archives.
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#25. To: wbales (#22)
now isn't that interesting. yet no one in government does a damn thing about it. it's oh so obvious who has all the power, isn't it?
To the point of this nation becoming a fascist-style authoritarian nation run by the banks and corporations. If the people do not wake up soon, there is no hope. But, if they do, the blood of these criminals will run in the streets and many thousands of them will be left swinging from lamp posts. We need more rope.
"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke
They're waking up ... and I think you're correct that investments in rope will generate tremendous rewards.
This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
Eminently.
Supporters of Bush and the Iraq war for Israel and oil are traitors to America and they hate American troops.
In the JFK murder, Mosaad WAS lurking about pushing the deed but never reaching the extent of blatant, overt involvement. I think this explains Johnson's otherwise incomprehensible handling of the USS Liberty incident. Subsequent to USN jets leaving the deck of the USS America, Israel told Johnson that they would expose Johnson's complicity in JFK's violent impeachment. The fighters were recalled and the rest is history--thier version thereof.
Supporters of Bush and the Iraq war for Israel and oil are traitors to America and they hate American troops.
Hummm... That makes more sense than anything else I have heard.
Israel's initial attack focused on Liberty's communications. While the attack was on-going, the Liberty crew re-established contact with the Sixth Fleet and reported that the USS Liberty was under attack by Israeli forces. Had this not occurred, the following day's headlines across America would have been along the lines of: "Egypt Sinks US Ship in Mediterranean".
Supporters of Bush and the Iraq war for Israel and oil are traitors to America and they hate American troops.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
… Ben-Gurion was desperate for a close working relationship with America, and he and Kollek went to Washington in 1950. There, they met with the director of the recently created Central Intelligence Agency, General Walter Bedell Smith. Ben- Gurion offered the Americans access to the information gathered from the Russian immigrants--not just summaries, but the transcripts of the interviews. Smith put Angleton in charge. At first, Angleton was suspicious of Kollek and the others, but over time he became impressed--and emotionally attached. The relationship was so close that it provided America with the greatest intelligence breakthrough in the history of the Cold War. … Supporters of Bush and the Iraq war for Israel and oil are traitors to America and they hate American troops.
I think this explains Johnson's otherwise incomprehensible handling of the USS Liberty incident. Subsequent to USN jets leaving the deck of the USS America, Israel told Johnson that they would expose Johnson's complicity in JFK's violent impeachment. The fighters were recalled and the rest is history--thier version thereof. There is little doubt of LBJ's complicity in the assassination. But one thing which is overlooked continually is the fact that JFK opposed Israel's development of nuclear weapons. Ben-Gurion was livid with JFK over this issue, and it is beyond doubt that the Israelis had a hand in the assassination. Mike Piper, in his blockbuster bestseller, Final Judgement, says that the real assassins were members of the Corsican mafia who were recruited by Mossad and surreptitiously inserted to co-opt the CIA plot of a failed attempt on JFK, which was meant as a shot across JFK's bow (to use the old naval axiom of a warning shot to heave to) to warn him off of his intended course of action. This Mossad activity has been well used on several occasions, with variations thereof. See Victor Ostrovsky's books By Way of Deception and The Other Side of Deception for more information. Another reason is JFK's move (and his intent to scatter the CIA to the "four winds") toward withdrawal from South East Asia, which would have interfered with the CIA and their heroin smuggling operation. The old saying "follow the money" holds true in this instance (Richard Armitage cut his teeth as a CIA bagman for those heroin smuggling runs.) and we are all aware of the CIA involvement in running drugs, guns and other nefarious activities which were used to outflank Congressional oversight of CIA funding. The funding of CIA black ops provided by these blatantly illegal acivities is well known.
"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke
JFK made a lot of enemies. Don't forget the American University speech, the Test Ban Treaty, the plans for detente and an end to the Cold War, and how the Pentagon and the military-industrial complex must have reacted.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
No, MI6 did. Angleton, may have EVENTUALY turned into an advocate of Israel but in the early 60s when JFK was killed the CIA old guard distrusted and disliked the Israelis. Again focus - you are claiming Mossad helped the CIA kill JFK - I say that is highly in fact NOT likely because if the CIA did it they were the old guard who wer enot Israeli boosters. They would not trust a delicate/sensitive thing as regicide to a group they viewed as no better than Soviet catspaws. From your source: Relations with America at the time were strained. Many top U.S. intelligence, diplomatic, and military leaders believed Israel was a communist cats' paw in the Middle East. It was a socialist country, after all, and the Soviet Union was one of the first countries to recognize Israeli independence. When you people get serious and figure out how to use logic let me know. This is like having a discussion of history with a special ed class.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
In other words beyond doubt to you. Mossad was not part of the JFK hit.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Angleton's big coup through Mossad was getting the text of Khrushchev's speech. That was in 1956.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
The Corsicans were used by everyone as independent agents - they did not take orders from Mossad and would do a hot for the Soviets or the Americans or the French or the British. If the CIA was behind the hit they would cetrainly have used Corsicans though in fact the hit was probably done by local Americans. Barr McClellan, father of Bush spoke's person Scott McClellan published 'Blood, Money & Power: How LBJ Killed JFK', a best-seller in November 2003. In the book McClellan presents facts that Lyndon B. Johnson and Edward Clark were involved in the planning and cover-up of the Kennedy assassination. McClellan also named Malcolm Wallace as one of the assassins. The killing of Kennedy, he alleged, was paid for by oil millionaires such as Clint Murchison and Haroldson L. Hunt. McClellan details how Clark got $6 million for this work. French journalist William Reymond published a book the same year in which he reaches the same conclusions as Barr McClellan. Many other authors have reached the same conclusions. The assassination of Kennedy allowed the oil depletion allowance to be kept at 27.5 per cent. It remained unchanged during the Johnson presidency. According to McClellan this resulted in a saving of over 100 million dollars to the American oil industry. Soon after Johnson left office it dropped to 15 per cent. Malcolm Wallace is, in our opinion, the key figure in the Kennedy assassination. He was positively identified by Loy Factor as one of the sixth floor gunmen, as well as the recruiter and organizer of the conspiracy. [Wallace's prints were lifted off the Italian rifle byt the FBI refused to certify this]. Madeleine Brown, the mistress of LBJ, also positively verified that Wallace was LBJ's "hatchet man" and was a professional killer. Billie Sol Estes, in the newly released "Estes documents" states that Wallace carried out eight murders at the direct command of LBJ. One of those eight murders was that of John F. Kennedy. Some things we know about Malcolm Wallace. 1. Born in 1921, he was killed in a single-car "accident" in Pittsburg, Texas, in 1971. He was 50 years old. 2. He was convicted of for the first degree murder of John Douglas Kinser in 1952. Due to a rigged jury, and the legal help of John Cofer and Polk Shelton (two of LBJ's finest attorneys) Wallace received a five (5) year SUSPENDED sentence. 3. He worked in aerospace / defense firms from 1953 to 1968. Two of his employers were Temco Aircraft and Ling Electronics - later to become Ling Temco Vought. (LTV) 4. According to Estes' statement, as well as Loy Factor's account, Wallace also recruited Jack Ruby and Lee Harvey Oswald.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Is that beyond doubt to you?
Supporters of Bush and the Iraq war for Israel and oil are traitors to America and they hate American troops.
Wow - and from there that CIA will trust a group they consider Soviets themselves with a hit of the president??? Not The Dulles brothers who had a grudge against JFK and not about to trust the hit to commie sympathizers like Mossad.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
You sure are anxious to deny the possibility of any Mossad involvement in as murky a matter as the JFK assassination. I wonder why.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
Because its bullshit and distracts from the more likely scenario of who did it - an internal US plot - Texan style. It shows me you know little of actual US history, US intelligence history and the thinking of men of those times. What you are doing is projecting your modern biases on the JFK plot. It is more likely that Oswald carried out the hit by himself then Mossad being involved. You seem anxious to involve Mossad in the murky a matter as the JFK assassination. I wonder why.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Yes. Meria With Barr McClellan - Blood, Money & Power, How LBJ killed JFK LISTEN Barr McClellan, noted LBJ Authority and personal attorney joins me for an explosive interview today. You can get more information at www.BarrMcClellan.com; Why are two former Presidents & Lady Bird calling out the History Channel against the documentary “The Guilty Men”? Who are the Presidents? Who were the “media” involved? Some of these names are going to SHOCK you. Why are Jackie Kennedy’s papers still sealed? Why did Jackie order her own investigation? What crimes was LBJ guilty of before taking office (and I mean taking); Who was Edward Clark? Who owned (owns?) the Texas courts? Was JFK getting ready to replace LBJ on his ticket? What did Kellogg, Brown & Root have to do with it and Johnson? (familiar name?); Barr says Texas was run by white anglo-saxon men in LBJ’s days and it was (is?) a good ole’ boy network for sure. He knows. He was there. He was on the inside of the attorney-client privilege and has told all he knows in this book. Lyndon Johnson stuffed ballot boxes long before electronic voting. He was known as “Lyin Lyndon”. A man suffering depression (and paranoia?) who gifted his psychologist $1 million. Was it “hush” money? Barr is calling for transparency in Government, and a full disclosure of ALL the papers on JFK’s assassination. He agrees that the Warren Commission was one big joke/conspiracy. As Barr says on the one lone nut theory, Jack Ruby was also another lone nut, so that makes 2, meaning there was a conspiracy. Did Jack Ruby say it was Johnson before his mysterious cancer killed him? This book, and interview sounds so much like the entire mess going on with the current administration it’s unmistakable who is running and ruining our country according to a long thought out and executed plan. “The only way to regain democracy is with more democracy.” - Barr McClellan. According to Barr McClellan it was now decided by Edward Clark that the investigation into Billie Sol Estes and Bobby Baker had to be brought to an end. McClellan claims that Clark recruited Wallace to organize the assassination of John F. Kennedy. When Johnson became president he managed to bring an end to the Senate investigations into Estes and Baker. McClellan later claimed that the killing of Kennedy was paid for by oil millionaires such as Clint Murchison and Haroldson L. Hunt. McClellan claims that Clark got $2 million for this work. The death of Kennedy allowed the oil depletion allowance to be kept at 27.5 per cent. It remained unchanged during the Johnson presidency. According to McClellan this resulted in a saving of over $100 million to the American oil industry. Soon after Johnson left office it dropped to 15 per cent. Wallace went to work for Harry Lewis and L & G Oil. In 1970 he returned to Dallas and began pressing Edward Clark for more money for his part in the assassination of John F. Kennedy. According to Barr McClellan it was then decided to kill Wallace. "He had to be eliminated. After driving to see his daughter in Troup, Texas, he went by L & G's offices in Longview, Texas. There his exhaust was rigged for part of it to flow into his car."On 7th January, 1971, Malcolm Wallace was killed while driving into Pittsburg, Texas. He appeared to have fallen asleep and after leaving the road crashed his car. Wallace died of massive head injuries. Soon afterwards Clifton C. Carter died aged 53. 1971 was also the year Billie Sol Estes was due to leave prison. According to Clint Peoples, a Texas Ranger based in Austin, Billie Sol Estes had promised to tell the full story of the death of Henry Marshall when he obtained his freedom. On 9th August, 1984, Estes' lawyer, Douglas Caddy, wrote to Stephen S. Trott at the U.S. Department of Justice. In the letter Caddy claimed that Wallace, Billie Sol Estes, Lyndon B. Johnson and Cliff Carter had been involved in the murders of Henry Marshall, George Krutilek, Harold Orr, Ike Rogers, Coleman Wade, Josefa Johnson, John Kinser and John F. Kennedy. Caddy added: "Mr. Estes is willing to testify that LBJ ordered these killings, and that he transmitted his orders through Cliff Carter to Mac Wallace, who executed the murders." In May 1998 Walt Brown called a press conference in Dallas to discuss a previously unidentified fingerprint at the "sniper's nest" in the Texas Book Depository. According to Brown this fingerprint had now been identified as belonging to Wallace. In 2003 Barr McClellan published Blood, Money & Power: How LBJ Killed JFK. In the book McClellan argues that Lyndon B. Johnson and Edward Clark were involved in the planning and cover-up of the assassination of John F. Kennedy. McClellan also named Wallace as one of the assassins. The killing of Kennedy was paid for by oil millionaires such as Clint Murchison and Haroldson L. Hunt. McClellan claims that Clark got $2 million for this work. Brown, a former special agent of the Justice Department, is a longtime researcher of the Warren Commission and the assassination of John F. Kennedy. He is also the editor of JFK/Deep Politics and the author of several books on the subject including: The People V. Lee Harvey Oswald (1992), Treachery in Dallas (1995), Referenced Index Guide to the Warren Commission (1995), JFK Assassination Quizbook (1995) and the The Warren Omission (1996). Brown's most ambitious project was The Global Index to the JFK Assassination, a CD-ROM of 2400 pages, which indexed not just the WC, but also the HSCA, and 100+ of the best known JFK books. There are 17,185 names and over 4 million references, and it is cross-referenced by 175 categories; so if you cannot remember the name of a particular Secret Service agent (or 174 other possible categories), you look through the alphabetic listing of the hundreds of SS agents listed, find the name, and then go to that listing in the Index. A Texas-based assassination research group has publicly named a man believed to have left a previously unidentified fingerprint on a box making up the so- called "sniper's nest" on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository. At a May 29 press conference in Dallas, researcher and author Walt Brown said that the fingerprints belong to Malcolm E. "Mac" Wallace, a convicted killer with ties to Lyndon Baines Johnson. The fingerprints have been officially unidentified since President Kennedy was assassinated in 1963. Brown presented data showing a 14-point match between Wallace's fingerprint card, obtained from the Texas Department of Public Safety, and the previously unidentified print, a copy of which was kept in the National Archives. The match was made by A. Nathan Darby, an expert with certification by the International Association of Identifiers. The Texas researchers forwarded their findings to the Dallas Police Department, who passed it on to the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Copies have also gone to Assassination Records Review Board, the federal panel created to oversee the identification and release of records relating to the JFK assassination. Malcolm Wallace, convicted in a 1951 murder and suspected in others, has been linked to the 1961 death of U.S. Department of Agriculture investigator Henry Marshall. Marshall was reportedly close to connecting Lyndon Johnson to fraudulent activities involving businessman and convicted swindler Billy Sol Estes. Estes alleged in 1984 that LBJ ordered the killings of Marshall, President Kennedy, and half a dozen others, and that Wallace carried them out. A grand jury decided that same year that Henry Marshall was murdered as a result of a conspiracy involving then-Vice President Johnson, his aide Clifton Carter, and Wallace. No charges were possible since all three men were by then deceased. Wallace was killed in a single car automobile accident in January 1971. Barr McClellan, a Houston attorney and part of the Texas research team, told Fair Play that he began to focus on Wallace during his work as attorney-partner with Ed Clark, whom he described as an Austin power broker and one of those behind the assassination. "John Cofer, Wallace's attorney from the start, was our partner specializing in criminal cases," McClellan said. "From that position of insight, I knew Wallace played a key role in the assassination." In the petition filed with the ARRB, McClellan wrote: "My direct involvement with Clark as his law partner and sole attorney occurred when he sought an additional payoff for the assassination." Negotiations for the payoff, McClellan told Fair Play, were "in May 1974 in a secret meeting with two members of the Railroad Commission." The Wallace fingerprint match by Darby has been disputed by Glen Sample, who represents California-based researchers whose investigation parallels the Texas research. While Sample says the California group still believes Wallace "was one of the shooters" of President Kennedy, they do not believe his fingerprints are those from the TSBD box.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Have you ever been a member of any "communist" party, or hidden documents in your socks for aforementioned?
"People like truth, it gives us a fucking benchmark." - dakmar
I said it's possible and that I suspect Mossad was a junior partner in what I suspect was primarily a domestic conspiracy. You say flatly that Mossad was not involved. You said flatly, until I pointed out the facts contradict you, that there was no connection between the CIA and Mossad until years after the JFK assassination.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
I read no further than this so if I repeat something already written.. Her papers were sealed for fifty years after her death, to be extended until her last child is dead. The only possible reason for this is that what is in her papers (which by now can be assume to have been corrupted) would be fatal to her offspring. This alone provides strong evidence that the "Lone Gunman" idea, that the current head of the Senate Judicuary, Specter, promotes, is a crock, and so is Specter.
You have a loose definition of connections. The connections involving Mossand and the CIA were not enough for them to be brought on board as killers of the president. You contradicted nothing. You stretched a CIA connection to Mossad the way Cheney stretched how Saddam had contacts with al-Qaeda. You say 'I said it's possible' - possible does not make it credible. We have a Texan oil connection - a connection in Texas means that at that time Texas was linked to the CIA - via the Dulles brothers to the White House via Johnson - linked to the Mafia via Don Santo Trafficante - who was so at home in Texas he went there to die in his old age (Trafficante's health had declined in his older years, and he died in Houston, Texas, where he had gone for heart surgery, in 1987.). Lastly, Oswald was linked to the Mob via family ties. Oswald's uncle, a man named Charles "Dutz" Murret, [was] an ex-prize fighter and promoter who was also a bookie. He was under the control of Carlos Marcello, who at that time was the head of the Mafia in New Orleans. These were the people who were in the sphere of Lee Harvey Oswald's life as a child. [Owald was a Mob brat the way other kids grow up as Army brats.] When Oswald and his mother returned to New Orleans they lived on Exchange Place above a pool hall. That street at that time was one den of iniquity after another. Strip joints, gambling joints. It was a place where every hustler and pimp in New Orleans plied his trade. Oswald grew up in a community and environment of crime and corruption. He went to Beauregard High School. It was a place that molded a character; it was a place that distorted a character. So what more do you need?
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
She seems to have married Onassis for protection.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
You think that, because it's probable that Texas, the CIA, and the Mafia were involved in the assassination, therefore it's IMPOSSIBLE that the Mossad was also involved? I'm sorry, but I really fail to see the logic in that.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
Yes, you know - you get to a point in probability where you can say that based on the available evidence. I would like to know why you would include an IMPROBABLE Mossad connection to killing JFK? We have had names - a finger print ID to the Sniper's Nest linked to the Texas Oilers and the mafia for a long time. What gives you a hard on about Mossad involved? Which is way down the list of probably players? I don't discount Mossad because I like those murdering bastards I discount them because they were not part of the scene. PS: Another Texas connection to JFK - Bush the elder - and unlike his son he and his pals are not known to have been Heb/Zio-philes and would not have let in people OUTSIDE their club (and the Mafia was well within their club - Texas oilmen and Mafia dons partied at private resorts in Texas for decades) in on such a delicate hit. "Fuck 'em, they didn't vote for us." - Bush Secretary of State Jim Baker on American Jews in March 1992.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Because it's known that JFK quarreled with Israel about their nukes. Because it would explain the alacrity with which the media fanatically adopted the Warren Commission fiction. Because it would explain that the person LBJ called when he became concerned about the Garrison investigation of the assassination was Abe Fortas. Because it would explain LBJ's behavior over the attack on the USS Liberty.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
My apologies, Del Charro resort was in California not Texas but was owned by a Texas oil man built with Mafia help. So you can see that the Mafia dons, CIA and FBI men, US military men (who worked with the mob since WW2 and probably enjoyed their mob pals who provided them whores and cash since the occupation Italy) and Texas oil men all were interconnected and knew each other. They were a closed club. Such a dicey thing as killing a president would be carried out within this club and they would not be letting in UNTRUSTED outsiders. http://www.motherbird.com/de ep_politics.html A perfect example of deep politics between business, government and organized crime is the career of Dallas oil millionaire Clint Murchison whose money was important in building the career of Lyndon Johnson first as Senator and then as Kennedy's vice-president. One of the main investors in Murchison's oil company was Mafia figure Gerardo Catena. Murchison was also a close friend of Lyndon Johnson's next door neighbor, FBI director J. Edgar Hoover. Murchison let Hoover take free vacations at Rancho del Charro, a resort which he owned. While such blatant Mafia figures as Gerardo Catena did not take their holidays at Rancho del Charro, others with strong but less obvious organized crime ties such as Sid Levison did. One of the humorous oil men who vacationed at Rancho del Charro said that Murchison exhibited Hoover to his friends at the resort to show them that Murchison “had the sheriff on his side.” This meant that any deals they wanted to make with Murchison and his organized crime contacts would not be prosecuted. Murchinson was the co-owner of the Dallas Cowboys with Gordon McLendon, the owner of radio and TV station KRLD in Dallas. Jack Ruby said that McLendon was one of his six best friends in Dallas. Ruby arranged for illegal gambling games for McLendon and his associates. Twelve years after the Kennedy assassination McLendon started the Association of former Intelligence Agents with Clare Booth Luce, widow of Henry Luce, publisher of Time and Life. McLendon and Luce and the former intelligence agents who joined them were trying to stop the investigations chaired by Senator Frank Church, Democrat of Idaho, which exposed the CIA plots with the Mafia against the life of Fidel Castro.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
"People like truth, it gives us a fucking benchmark." - dakmar
Wrong on all of the above. Because it's known that JFK quarreled with Israel about their nukes. JFK had a tussle with the KGB as well and they were much better at the killing thing than the relatively newly born Mossad was. Because it would explain the alacrity with which the media fanatically adopted the Warren Commission fiction. See the link I posted above which answers that. Murchinson was the co-owner of the Dallas Cowboys with Gordon McLendon, the owner of radio and TV station KRLD in Dallas. Jack Ruby said that McLendon was one of his six best friends in Dallas. Ruby arranged for illegal gambling games for McLendon and his associates. Twelve years after the Kennedy assassination McLendon started the Association of former Intelligence Agents with Clare Booth Luce, widow of Henry Luce, publisher of Time and Life. McLendon and Luce and the former intelligence agents who joined them were trying to stop the investigations chaired by Senator Frank Church, Democrat of Idaho, which exposed the CIA plots with the Mafia against the life of Fidel Castro. Because it would explain that the person LBJ called when he became concerned about the Garrison investigation of the assassination was Abe Fortas. Maybe because the guy was a supreme court judge and he could put pressure on a prosecutor somehow? Is that a little more logical? Occam's Razor. Or does any contact with an American Jew mean Mossad to you? Because it would explain LBJ's behavior over the attack on the USS Liberty. No. What could LBJ do? Attack Israel at the same time Soviet Arab client states were also attacking Israel? Sure, it would punish Israel if America joined forces with the USSR in attacking Israel but at a time when America was bleeding in Vietnam I don't think LBJ wanted to hand a victory to the Soviet bloc even if it let the Israelis who attacked the USS Liberty off the hook.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
I would have used "than" in place of your "then". Don't you understand english, do you feel alright?
"People like truth, it gives us a fucking benchmark." - dakmar
I would capitalize the proper noun "English". "The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Capitals are part of empire system, hell with them.
"People like truth, it gives us a fucking benchmark." - dakmar
POLITICAL HYPOCRISY I had to ask. Did he think Lee Harvey Oswald fired the gun that killed Kennedy? "Absolutely not," Connally said. "I do not, for one second, believe the conclusions of the Warren Commission." So why not speak out? "Because I love this country and we needed closure at the time. I will never speak out publicly about what I believe." We took him back to catch a late flight to Texas. He shook my hand, kissed Amy on the cheek and walked up the ramp to the plane.
Press 1 for English, Press 2 for English, Press 3 for deportation Death of Habeas Corpus: “Your words are lies, Sir.”
Because it's known that JFK quarreled with Israel about their nukes. Because it would explain the alacrity with which the media fanatically adopted the Warren Commission fiction. Because it would explain that the person LBJ called when he became concerned about the Garrison investigation of the assassination was Abe Fortas. Because it would explain LBJ's behavior over the attack on the USS Liberty. Wrong on all of the above. Well, seems all this time we were wrong on all the above. Destro has cleared everything up. Oy.
Supporters of Bush and the Iraq war for Israel and oil are traitors to America and they hate American troops.
1. The UN should have the right and authority to create a nation for the specific benefit of a particular group of people on land primarily inhabited by another group of people. 2. Putting Israel where it is was a good idea that is working out well. 3. Israel’s religious/ethnic/race specific Right of Return is compatible with Democratic principles. 4. Jews had no involvement in the Russian Revolution. 5. In 1930s Germany, Jews did nothing to antagonize or provoke the lunatic Hitler. 6. The number of 6 millions Jews killed by Hitler in WWII is accurate. 7. Anyone questioning and/or doubting the 6 million number denies the entire holocaust. 8. America and Americans have a duty to support and defend Israel. 9. Israel treats Palestinians within its control with dignity, equitably and fairly. 10. Saddam Hussein/Iraq was a direct and immediate threat to America and Americans so as to require immediate military intervention by the US military. 11. Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden were goods friends and partners in international terrorism. 12. Osama Bin Laden was never associated with any agency of the American federal government. 13. Saddam Hussein never received any ambiguous diplomatic signals from the United States prior to Gulf War I. 14. Shooting machine guns and rockets from helicopter gunships down into villages and neighborhoods cannot be terrorism. 15. Bulldozing/razing homes/businesses and/or agricultural fields cannot be considered terrorism. 16. The reason terrorists high-jacked and crashed jets into the World Trade Centers was because they hate our freedoms, elections, religion, way of life. 17. America’s middle eastern foreign policy, in general, and support of Israel, in particular, had nothing to do with 09/11. 18. OPEC--not American oil merchants--is reaping most of the profits from increased American domestic oil/gas prices. 19. The American federal government was absolutely clueless about 09/11 prior to 09/11. 20. There were no market/securities transactions out of the ordinary prior to 09/11. 21. Back just before Gulf War II started and during the UN debates concerning same, France is just as wrong now as they were then. 22. Muslims are determined to take over and rule the world and, especially, the United States. 23. Muslims possess the actual capability to take over and rule the world and, especially, the United States. 24. Trying to establish a democracy in an Muslim Arab country by military force is a good idea. 25. It is a proper function of the American federal government to establish “democracies” in other countries around the world-- overthrowing existing governments by force, if necessary. 26. America and Americans have the excess and available cash to establish “democracies” in other countries around the world-- overthrowing existing governments by force, if necessary. 27. Bush’s stance on illegal immigration and America’s borders is consistent with Homeland Security. 28. Prior to and during the attack, Israel had no idea that the USS Liberty was an American ship. 29. USS Liberty crew who maintain that Israel knew that their ship was American prior to the attack are mistaken or are anti-semites. 30. Having a lobby for a foreign government as the second most powerful lobby in Washington, DC is good for America and Americans. 31. The WWII Holocaust Museum in Washington, DC should have been built before the American Military WWII Memorial. 32. The WWII Holocaust is more significant and historically important then the Russian Revolution Holocaust or any other Holocaust. 33. Israel’s military dealings with China is none of America’s business. 34. It should be illegal for Americans to boycott Israel or any other country if they so choose. 35. Direct contributions by American to the military of a foreign county should be tax deductible. 36. Israel is a democracy--not a theocratic oligarchy upon a socialist foundation.
Supporters of Bush and the Iraq war for Israel and oil are traitors to America and they hate American troops.
Geez, why can't we overlook a few inconsistencies and irritants ??? Hahahahaha !!!
This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
37. 09/11 was an act of war requiring the mobilization of the United States military and the invasion of two sovereign nations. It was not a crime, albiet of horrific proportions, which could have been handled through an international law enforcement approach--law enforcment isn't that effective. 38. The anthrax episode perpetrators are simply to elusive and intelligent to have been identified and apprehended by the combined FBI/CIA/local and national law enforcement agnecies--our law enforcement isn't that good.
Supporters of Bush and the Iraq war for Israel and oil are traitors to America and they hate American troops.
"Absolutely not," Connally said. "I do not, for one second, believe the conclusions of the Warren Commission." So why not speak out? "Because I love this country and we needed closure at the time. I will never speak out publicly about what I believe." Connally was a coward and, in fact, treacherous. He did what was politically expedient for himself. To say he wouldn't speak out because of his love for this country is a lie.
The Christian Law Fellowship has exhaustively researched this matter through the Federal Register and Library of Congress. We can now safely conclude that this Executive Order has never been repealed, amended, or superceded by any subsequent Executive Order. In simple terms, it is still valid.
#26. To: noone222 (#1)
Americans have a tendency to see themselves as immune to the communistic/fascistic attacks that have decimated empires throughout history. This form of denial is dangerous to say the least because a cognitive dissonance replaces reflective analysis, and allows the nonsense such as National Security to stifle real evidence that contradicts the contrived storyline.
#27. To: BTP Holdings (#26)
If the people do not wake up soon
#28. To: christine (#25)
it's oh so obvious who has all the power, isn't it?
#29. To: aristeides, christine (#23)
#30. To: wbales (#29)
otherwise incomprehensible handling of the USS Liberty incident. Subsequent to USN jets leaving the deck of the USS America, Israel told Johnson that they would expose Johnson's complicity in JFK's violent impeachment. The
#31. To: tom007 (#30)
#32. To: aristeides (#23)
#33. To: Destro (#32)
Agleton helped the Israeli set up Mossaad.
#34. To: wbales, aristeides, christine, tom007 (#29)
In the JFK murder, Mosaad WAS lurking about pushing the deed but never reaching the extent of blatant, overt involvement.
#35. To: BTP Holdings (#34)
#36. To: wbales (#33)
(Edited)
Agleton helped the Israeli set up Mossaad.
#37. To: BTP Holdings, wbales, aristeides, christine, tom007 (#34)
and it is beyond doubt that the Israelis had a hand in the assassination.
#38. To: Destro (#36)
#39. To: BTP Holdings, wbales, aristeides, christine, tom007 (#34)
Mike Piper, in his blockbuster bestseller, Final Judgement, says that the real assassins were members of the Corsican mafia who were recruited by Mossad
#40. To: Destro (#37)
Mossad was not part of the JFK hit.
#41. To: aristeides (#38)
Angleton's big coup through Mossad was getting the text of Khrushchev's speech. That was in 1956.
#42. To: Destro (#41)
#43. To: aristeides (#42)
(Edited)
You sure are anxious to deny the possibility of any Mossad involvement in as murky a matter as the JFK assassination. I wonder why.
#44. To: BTP Holdings, wbales, aristeides, christine, tom007 (#40)
Is that beyond doubt to you?
#45. To: Destro (#43)
You seem anxious to involve Mossad in the murky a matter as the JFK assassination. I wonder why.
#46. To: Destro (#43)
You seem anxious to involve Mossad in the murky a matter as the JFK assassination. I wonder why.
#47. To: Destro (#44)
Why are Jackie Kennedy’s papers still sealed?
#48. To: aristeides (#46)
(Edited)
You say flatly that Mossad was not involved. You said flatly, until I pointed out the facts contradict you, that there was no connection between the CIA and Mossad until years after the JFK assassination.
#49. To: tom007 (#47)
This alone provides strong evidence that the "Lone Gunman" idea, that the current head of the Senate Judicuary, Specter, promotes, is a crock, and so is Specter.
#50. To: Destro (#48)
#51. To: aristeides (#50)
You think that, because it's probable that Texas, the CIA, and the Mafia were involved in the assassination, therefore it's IMPOSSIBLE that the Mossad was also involved? I'm sorry, but I really fail to see the logic in that.
#52. To: Destro (#51)
I would like to know why you would include an IMPROBABLE Mossad connection to killing JFK?
#53. To: aristeides (#51)
PS: Another Texas connection to JFK - Bush the elder - and unlike his son he and his pals are not known to have been Heb/Zio-philes and would not have let in people OUTSIDE their club (and the Mafia was well within their club - Texas oilmen and Mafia dons partied at private resorts in Texas for decades) in on such a delicate hit.
#54. To: Destro (#51)
Imus himself has referred to one African-American journalist as "a cleaning lady," another as a "quota hire," and tennis player Amelie Mauresmo as "a big old lesbo." Imus taunted another reporter as a "beanie-wearing little Jewboy," called a disabled colleague "the cripple," and has said that he picked one of his producers to do "nigger jokes" (60 Minutes, 7/19/98).
#55. To: aristeides (#52)
(Edited)
Because it's known that JFK quarreled with Israel about their nukes. Because it would explain the alacrity with which the media fanatically adopted the Warren Commission fiction. Because it would explain that the person LBJ called when he became concerned about the Garrison investigation of the assassination was Abe Fortas. Because it would explain LBJ's behavior over the attack on the USS Liberty.
#56. To: Destro (#55)
(Edited)
much better at the killing thing then the
#57. To: Dakmar (#56)
Don't you understand english, do you feel alright?
#58. To: Destro (#57)
#59. To: aristeides (#23)
Connally's mood darkened as he talked about Dallas. When the bullet hit him, he said he felt like he had been kicked in the ribs and couldn't breathe. He spoke kindly of Jackie Kennedy and said he admired both her bravery and composure.
#60. To: aristeides (#52)
#61. To: Destro (#44)
What are your thoughts on these qeustions/observations/commnets:
#62. To: wbales (#61)
#63. To: All (#61)
(Edited)
need to add a couple
#64. To: Uncle Bill, YertleTurtle (#59)
I had to ask. Did he think Lee Harvey Oswald fired the gun that killed Kennedy?
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