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National News
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Title: Cheney Sticks to His Delusions
Source: Washington Post
URL Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy ... /04/06/BL2007040601116_pf.html
Published: Apr 6, 2007
Author: Dan Froomkin
Post Date: 2007-04-06 15:32:46 by ...
Keywords: None
Views: 4552
Comments: 83

Cheney Sticks to His Delusions

By Dan Froomkin
Special to Friday,>http://washingtonpost.com
Friday,
April 6, 2007; 1:20 PM

Faced with overwhelming evidence to the contrary, even President Bush has backed off his earlier inflammatory assertions about links between al-Qaeda and Saddam Hussein.

But Vice President Cheney yesterday, in an interview with right-wing talk radio host Rush Limbaugh, continued to stick to his delusional guns.

Cheney told Limbaugh that Abu Musab al-Zarqawi was leading al-Qaeda operations in Iraq before the U.S. invasion in March 2003.

"[A]fter we went into Afghanistan and shut him down there, he went to Baghdad, took up residence there before we ever launched into Iraq; organized the al-Qaeda operations inside Iraq before we even arrived on the scene, and then, of course, led the charge for Iraq until we killed him last June. He's the guy who arranged the bombing of the Samarra Mosque that precipitated the sectarian violence between Shia and Sunni. This is al-Qaeda operating in Iraq," Cheney said. "And as I say, they were present before we invaded Iraq." (Think Progress has the audio clip.)

But Cheney's narrative is wrong from beginning to end. For instance, Zarqawi was not an al-Qaeda member until after the war. Rather, intelligence sources now agree, he was the leader of an unaffiliated terrorist group who occasionally associated with al-Qaeda adherents. And although he worked hard to inflame sectarian violence after the invasion, he certainly didn't start it.

As it happens, just in case anyone needed more evidence of the spuriousness of Cheney's views, yesterday also marked the release of yet another report confirming that that al-Qaeda and Saddam Hussein's government were not working together before the invasion.

The report also further documents how Cheney willfully ignored reliable intelligence in favor of broadcasting invented assertions emerging from a rogue Defense Department office -- a habit he apparently has yet to break.The Latest Report

R. Jeffrey Smith writes in The Washington Post: "Captured Iraqi documents and intelligence interrogations of Saddam Hussein and two former aides 'all confirmed' that Hussein's regime was not directly cooperating with al-Qaeda before the U.S. invasion of Iraq, according to a declassified Defense Department report released yesterday.

"The declassified version of the report, by acting Inspector General Thomas F. Gimble, also contains new details about the intelligence community's prewar consensus that the Iraqi government and al-Qaeda figures had only limited contacts, and about its judgments that reports of deeper links were based on dubious or unconfirmed information."

According to the report, "a key Pentagon office -- run by then-Undersecretary of Defense Douglas J. Feith -- had inappropriately written intelligence assessments before the March 2003 invasion alleging connections between al-Qaeda and Iraq that the U.S. intelligence consensus disputed.

"The report, in a passage previously marked secret, said Feith's office had asserted in a briefing given to Cheney's chief of staff in September 2002 that the relationship between Iraq and al-Qaeda was 'mature' and 'symbiotic,' marked by shared interests and evidenced by cooperation across 10 categories, including training, financing and logistics."

Those conclusions, running so contrary to traditional intelligence findings, were "leaked to the conservative Weekly Standard magazine before the war" and then "were publicly praised by Cheney as the best source of information on the topic."

Tony Capaccio writes for Bloomberg that the report draws "a direct connection between the Sept. 16 White House briefing and Cheney's public comments thereafter.

"Four days later, Cheney referred at fundraiser to a 'well-established pattern of cooperation between Iraq and terrorists.'

"And on Dec. 2, Cheney warned in a speech that Hussein's regime 'has had high-level contact with al-Qaeda going back a decade and has provided training to al-Qaeda terrorists.' His language mirrored that on briefing chart entitled 'Summary of Known Iraq-al-Qaeda Contacts -- 1990-2002.'"

Here is the full text of the report; as well as the slides used by Feith's office in its presentation to senior White House officials.

On one slide entitled "Fundamental Problems with How Intelligence Community is Assessing Information," Feith's office suggests that the CIA and others were underestimating how hard Iraq and Al Qaeda would be trying to hide their relationship -- so that, in their words, "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."

That, of course, is highly reminiscent of the administration's key pre-war assertion that the lack of evidence of Iraqi WMDs proved how diligently Saddam was hiding them. In both cases, the administration stood traditional intelligence-gathering methodology on its head by insisting that lack of evidence was more indicative than evidence -- in other words that conviction trumped facts.The Limbaugh Connection

It's not a coincidence that Cheney was talking to Limbaugh yesterday. The show has been one of Cheney's favorite venues.

As I wrote in my January 29 column, The Unraveling of Dick Cheney, Cheney is increasingly out of touch with reality. He seems to think that by asserting things that are simply untrue, he can make others believe they are so.

In Limbaughland, he's right.

In Limbaughland, not only were Saddam and Al Qaeda linked but -- more significantly -- liberals hate America. In Limbaughland, Cheney can say a lot simply by failing to disagree with his host's assertions.

Consider a few of yesterday's exchanges.

Limbaugh was complaining to Cheney about how the Democrats seem to be primarily motivated by a desire "to make sure we come home defeated."

Limbaugh: "Can you share with us whether or not you understand their devotion, or their seeming allegiance to the concept of U.S. defeat?"

Cheney: "I can't."

I wrote yesterday about Bush's recess appointment of three controversial officials including Sam Fox, whose nomination to be ambassador to Belgium was opposed by Democrats on account of his 2004 donation to the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.

Limbaugh called Fox "a great American" and praised the White House for making an end-run around Democratic opposition.

Limbaugh: "This is the kind of move that garners a lot of support from the people in the country. This shows the administration willing to engage these people and not allow them to get away with this kind of -- well, my term -- you don't have to accept it -- Stalinist behavior from these people on that committee."

Cheney: "Well, you're dead on, Rush."

The two also chuckled about the White House move.

Limbaugh: "You go on vacation, this is what happens to you."

Cheney: "If you're a Democrat." They both laughed.

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#1. To: ... (#0)

Cheney Sticks to His Delusions

There not delusions. They are lies.

Cheney is a liar and a traitor and deserves a traitor's end.

Burkeman1  posted on  2007-04-06   15:45:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: All (#0)

I heard chucklenuts on Limbaugh's show yesterday and wondered what the occasion was. He usually only goes on when some serious rube fooling needs to be done.

Now it all makes sense. Cheney knew the declassified Defense Department report was coming out. He was on Rush's show to bamboozle the BeAChoosers of the world into hanging on to the "Al Qaeda in Iraq" fantasy for a few more months.

.

...  posted on  2007-04-06   15:48:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Burkeman1 (#1)

There not delusions. They are lies.

Cheney is a liar and a traitor and deserves a traitor's end.

spot on bump

Dr.Ron Paul for President

Lod  posted on  2007-04-06   15:50:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Burkeman1 (#1)

There not delusions. They are lies.

Cheney is a liar and a traitor and deserves a traitor's end.

Dammit, beat me to it.

Mekons4  posted on  2007-04-06   15:57:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: ... (#2)

That exchange between Limbaugh and Cheney was simply pathetic. Poor propaganda. The smarter of Limbaugh's audience must have winced at the sycophantic and setup nature of it. But mostly it is poor because it is insulting to the intelligence of his listeners. It's a mark of their desperation at how low they have sunk in their propaganda techniques. Quite ameteurish.

Burkeman1  posted on  2007-04-06   15:59:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Burkeman1 (#5)

That exchange between Limbaugh and Cheney was simply pathetic. Poor propaganda. The smarter of Limbaugh's audience must have winced at the sycophantic and setup nature of it.

I will wager that BeAChooser and some of the LP crowed fell for it however. So in a way the propaganda is still effective.

The Bush team has simply given up on rational, thinking Americans. The alienation is too great and they realize that they simply can't overcome the six years of history. Hence, the Bush team now devotes all of its energy to fooling gullible rubes like chooser and his ilk.

It seems to be a circle the wagons mentality. The 29% won't let them win anything, but it might be enough to keep them from impeachment. They now seem to be playing for the 29% and no one else.

.

...  posted on  2007-04-06   16:12:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: ... (#6)

The Kool Aider Bushbots are morons for the most part. Pink Champagne drinking rubes - McCdonald Franchise owners, MIC middle manager do nothings, rapture nutting slack jawed drooling goobers, jack ass college kid "hip publicans", used car dealer lot owners. Bores and boneheads who are easily duped- but who couldn't convince a retarded four year old that Santa Claus is real. If Cheney and Bush are counting on their "base" of lower middle class- up to their eyeballs in credit card debt and who didn't understand their APR mortgage loan when they bought their ranch style pre-fab house- boobs then they are in deep trouble.

Burkeman1  posted on  2007-04-06   16:27:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: ..., ALL (#0)

But Cheney's narrative is wrong from beginning to end. For instance, Zarqawi was not an al-Qaeda member until after the war. Rather, intelligence sources now agree, he was the leader of an unaffiliated terrorist group who occasionally associated with al-Qaeda adherents.

Why did a dozen self-admitted members of al-Qaeda who were caught bringing explosives, chemicals and vehicles into Jordan to committ an act of mass casualty terror say they met with and were funded by al-Zarqawi prior to the invasion of Iraq? They were convicted, by the way. The fact is that al-Zarqawi was in Afghanistan at the same time as bin Laden ... before the invasion of Iraq. And the fact is al-Qaeda has always been an association of terrorist groups.

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-04-06   18:06:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: BeAChooser (#8)

Why did a dozen self-admitted members of al-Qaeda who were caught bringing explosives, chemicals and vehicles into Jordan to committ an act of mass casualty terror say they met with and were funded by al-Zarqawi prior to the invasion of Iraq?

NewsMax didn't give you many details did it.

When people selectively present details, as you are doing above, and as NewsMax no doubt did to you, it usually means that the story doesn't really support the propaganda that is being pushed.

And if the story is true, why don't Bush or Cheney use it to refute this very damming report from the Defense Department? Cheney was just on Rush yesterday and he could have spewed it then.

Actually, watching you operate, I assume there is a shred of truth to the story, but that there is no doubt a huge factor that makes the story useless for your propaganda -- and that is why you are being so selective about what you tell us.

.

...  posted on  2007-04-06   21:54:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: ... (#2)

Now it all makes sense. Cheney knew the declassified Defense Department report was coming out. He was on Rush's show to bamboozle the BeAChoosers of the world into hanging on to the "Al Qaeda in Iraq" fantasy for a few more months.

That's what all the addicts say.

"The line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes nor between parties either — but right through the human heart." — Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

robin  posted on  2007-04-06   21:57:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: ..., ALL (#9)

Why did a dozen self-admitted members of al-Qaeda who were caught bringing explosives, chemicals and vehicles into Jordan to committ an act of mass casualty terror say they met with and were funded by al-Zarqawi prior to the invasion of Iraq?

NewsMax didn't give you many details did it.

You are working overtime to discredit yourself. You know full well that I previously posted to you links from half a dozen mainstream sources ... MSNBC, CNN, CSPAN, ABC, THE WASHINGTON POST, ETC ... all describing the Jordan chemical bomb plot and al-Zarqawi's involvement.

Like I said, ..., the Newsmax bit is getting old.

You need some new material if you want to stay in the comedy business.

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-04-07   17:07:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: BeAChooser (#11)

You know full well that I previously posted to you links from half a dozen mainstream sources ... MSNBC, CNN, CSPAN, ABC, THE WASHINGTON POST, ETC ...

Bullshit.

If you had done this you would have had the links in your post. I've seen you operate.

And as I said above, NewsMax didn't give you any details on this story, and you don't give any details on this story because when the details are known, the story doesn't support your propaganda.

They fact that you tried to change the subject when I first confronted you with this proves my point.

.

...  posted on  2007-04-07   17:25:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: BeAChooser (#11)

the Newsmax bit is getting old

If you would stop quoting it at us, we would stop laughing at you for quoting it at us.

Go find fresh sources for your Ron Brown kookery, your WMD kookery and Al Qaeda-in-Iraq kookery.

.

...  posted on  2007-04-07   17:28:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: BeAChooser (#11) (Edited)

Chooser, let me tell the lurkers why you CANNOT give more details on your SILLY PROPAGANDA story.

It is because it allegedly happened in 2004 -- if it happened at all.

You are trying to use it to prove Al Qaeda activity in Iraq prior to 2002.

This is why you can't go into detail. Details blow you out of the water.

Also, the only write ups you have are out of the goob fooler press - probably exclusively NewsMax and WND. I am guessing that the most reputable source you might have is Fox News. It then goes down hill from there. You know you will be ridiculed if you put that sort of SHIT up here.

.

...  posted on  2007-04-07   17:32:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: BeAChooser (#11)

Let me give the Lurkers a few more details on your SHIT story while I am at it.

Not only did the alleged story happen well after the invasion, i.e., in 2004, the alleged perps were tortured. They confessed to everything including fathering Anna Nicholes baby - and you know this.

That is why you are so reluctant to give us details here.

.

...  posted on  2007-04-07   17:41:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: ..., scrapper2, ALL (#12)

"You know full well that I previously posted to you links from half a dozen mainstream sources ... MSNBC, CNN, CSPAN, ABC, THE WASHINGTON POST, ETC ..."

Bullshit.

If you had done this you would have had the links in your post. I've seen you operate.

You really are bent on discrediting yourself, aren't you:

**************************

http://freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=48869&Disp=160#C160

#160. To: ..., ALL (#135)

"We have documents showing that the Iraqi regime was playing catch and release with al-Qaeda terrorists. al-Zarqawi even felt confident enough to meet IN BAGHDAD the terrorists who Jordan eventually caught with the materials they planned to use to kill tens of thousands."

No, NewsMax told you you

Newsmax is not the source for any of this. If you'd paid the slightest attention to any thread where these things were discussed, you know that.

http://www.nti.org/d_newswire/issues/2005_6_30.html

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2004-04-18-jordan-terror_x.htm

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/04/26/jordan.terror/

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/04/26/world/main613825.shtml

http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/terencejeffrey/2004/05/05/11586.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,184927,00.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4838076/%20

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,135670,00.html

http://middle-east.news.designerz.com/zarqawi-chemical-bomb-plot-trial-postponed-after-lawyers-fail-to-show.html

http://www.nti.org/d%5Fnewswire/issues/2005/4/21/b3156726%2D58b2%2D447b%2Dae27%2D7669bf04a708.html

http://www.nationalreview.com/robbins/robbins200405030839.asp

It's clear enough who is in the dark here.

BeAChooser posted on 2007-04-04 16:19:41 ET

*************

#194. To: scrapper2, ..., ALL (#187)

The sources you point out to ... as showing him to be a fool does the very opposite - the sources show you to be the fool, the shill-dupe of reichwing prop.

So scrapper ... you are saying that NTI's Global Security Newswire, the Associated Press, Jordanian Times, Agence France-Presse, CSPAN, The Washington Times, the San Diego Union-Tribune, The Boston Globe, CNN, USATODAY, CBS News, MSNBC, FOX News, ABC News, The National Review, townhall, the Pittzburgh Post-Gazette, The Irish News, Powerline, FrontPageMag, Larry Elder, LittleGreenFootballs, Reuters and The Washington Post all are working together?

Because they ALL carried the story about the Jordan chemical bomb plot.

Contrary to ...'s claim that my only source was Newsmax.

Yes, scrapper ... I do think I know who is making fools of themselves here.

BeAChooser posted on 2007-04-04 19:35:41 ET

****************

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-04-07   18:23:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: BeAChooser (#16)

Ahhhh. My noting that the incident took place in 2004, well after the start of the war, has built a fire under your butt.

I see you are madly trying to change the subject here.

But back to the point kook, the incident took place in 2004, the alleged perps were torured and then responded with precisely what Bush needed to deflect the gathering bad press. The press did not buy it and the recently released Defense Department report contradicts your kook theories.

I guess if I were you, I would try to change the subject as well.

.

...  posted on  2007-04-07   18:32:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: BeAChooser (#16)

Kook, your are a bald faced liar.

You said you had posted the articles here. I knew you had not and I called you a bullshitter over it.

Not one of the URLs above is from this site.

As I said, you were guarding the details on this story as you knew it didn't really support the crap you were spewing. You told me that you had already posted the details here when you knew damn good and well you had not.

Now you are trying to fob off the links above as 4um links.

.

...  posted on  2007-04-07   18:36:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: BeAChooser (#16)

So scrapper ... you are saying that NTI's Global Security Newswire, the Associated Press, Jordanian Times, Agence France-Presse, CSPAN, The Washington Times, the San Diego Union-Tribune, The Boston Globe, CNN, USATODAY, CBS News, MSNBC, FOX News, ABC News, The National Review, townhall, the Pittzburgh Post-Gazette, The Irish News, Powerline, FrontPageMag, Larry Elder, LittleGreenFootballs, Reuters and The Washington Post all are working together?

By the way, the links don't say what you claim they say.

This incident took place in 2004, well after the start of the war. No one disputes that Bush set up Al Qaeda in Iraq after the start of the war.

The question is was Al Qaeda operating in Iraq prior to the war. The shit you posted above is from 2004 and isn't relevant. Seems the Defense Department report still stands.

By the way, this whole thing took place in Jordan not Iraq.

.

...  posted on  2007-04-07   18:39:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: ..., ALL (#14)

Chooser, let me tell the lurkers why you CANNOT give more details on your SILLY PROPAGANDA story.

It is because it allegedly happened in 2004 -- if it happened at all.

You are trying to use it to prove Al Qaeda activity in Iraq prior to 2002.

***********

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/04/26/jordan.terror/

AMMAN, Jordan (CNN) -- Jordanian authorities said Monday they have broken up an alleged al Qaeda plot that would have unleashed a deadly cloud of chemicals in the heart of Jordan's capital, Amman.

The plot would have been more deadly than anything al Qaeda has done before, including the September 11 attacks, according to the Jordanian government.

Among the alleged targets were the U.S. Embassy, the Jordanian prime minister's office and the headquarters of Jordanian intelligence.

... snip ...

On a confession shown on state-run Jordanian television, Jayyousi said he took orders from Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, a suspected terrorist leader who has been linked to al Qaeda and whom U.S. officials have said is behind some attacks in Iraq.

*************

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4838076/%20

AMMAN, Jordan - Al-Qaida plotted bombings and poison gas attacks against the U.S. Embassy and other targets in Jordan, two conspirators said in a confession aired Monday on Jordanian state television.

Azmi al-Jayousi, identified as the head of the Jordanian cell of al-Qaida, appeared Monday in a 20-minute taped program and described meeting Jordanian militant Abu-Musab al-Zarqawi in neighboring Iraq to plan the foiled plot.

A commentator said the plotters wanted to kill “80,000” Jordanians and had targeted the prime minister’s office, intelligence headquarters and the U.S. Embassy.

... snip ...

“I have pledged loyalty to Abu-Musab to fully be obedient and listen to him without discussion,” al-Jayousi said in the Jordanian television segment. He said he first met al-Zarqawi in Afghanistan, where al-Jayousi said he studied explosives, “before Afghanistan fell.” He said he later met al-Zarqawi in Iraq, but was not specific about when.

The videotape also showed still photographs of al-Jayousi and nine other suspects. The commentator said four of those pictured had been killed in clashes with security forces.

Al-Jayousi said he received about $170,000 from al-Zarqawi to finance the plot and used part of it to buy 20 tons of chemicals. He did not identify the chemicals, but said they “were enough for all the operations in the Jordanian arena.”

*************

http://www.nti.org/d_newswire/issues/2005_6_30.html

A suspect in a foiled plot to detonate a chemical weapon in Jordan met before hand in Iraq with fellow defendant Abu Musab al-Zarqawi to discuss the planned attacks, according to a videotaped confession played in court yesterday (see GSN, June 23).

The tape shows defendant Azmi al-Jayousi confessing that he planned to carry out attacks in Jordan, the Associated Press reported.

“I met with Abu Musab in Baghdad, who told me that a man called al-Jubouri will be the contact man between me and Abu Musab,” said Jayousi, one of 13 suspects in an alleged plan to attack Jordanian intelligence agency headquarters in Amman.

**************

Just a sampling of what's out there ...

I'll leave you to find the rest knowing you won't even try.

They say they met al-Zarqawi in Iraq before the invasion.

They say they met him in Baghdad.

They say they didn't return to Iraq after going to Syria to prepare for the attack.

They say you don't know what you are talking about, ... .

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-04-07   18:44:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: BeAChooser (#16)

Do you have any evidence that contradicts the Defense Department when they say that there were no real Saddam / Al Qaeda links?

I mean real evidence. Not bullshit stories that require 700 word posts explaining why the obvious faults in the story are not really there.

If you are going to take this route, why don't you just post a story about Bin Laden in Afghanistan and note that Bin Laden once read a National Geographic story about life in Baghdad. That would establish the Saddam / Al Qaeda link by the standards you are using above.

Don't insult our intelligence. We know when the war started and we know it started prior to April of 2004 - the date of the bullshit story you cite above.

In closing, if any of the SHIT you are trying to fob off above is true, why doesn't Bush use it to save himself? Why doesn't he go on national TV and make fools of the Democrats with it?

.

...  posted on  2007-04-07   18:45:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: BeAChooser (#20)

Kook, I scanned your silly spam above and I note that it doesn't say one fucking word about Al Qaeda operating in Iraq prior to the start of the war.

You are a bald faced bullshit artist hiding behind spam - and nothing more.

I guess the Defense Department is right and you are dead fucking wrong. But we all knew that to begin with.

.

...  posted on  2007-04-07   18:48:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: ..., ALL (#15)

the alleged perps were tortured.

Prove it. They didn't look tortured in the videos where they confessed. No one in the media (CSPAN, CNN, CBS, NBC, ABC, etc) said they looked like they'd been tortured. In court they didn't claim they were tortured into saying they were al-Qaeda or that the plot was funded by al-Zarqawi or that they met him in Baghdad before the invasion. Now, they were quite proud about their deeds.

Since your Newsmax red herring didn't work, looks like you are going to attempt another.

You act is getting old. You definitely need new material.

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-04-07   18:48:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: BeAChooser (#20)

They say they met al-Zarqawi in Iraq before the invasion.

No, you say they say they met al-Zarqawi in Iraq before the invasion.

I say I haven't seen that even in the shit you posted above.

I do know that they were tortured however and that would have a big bearing on whatever they say.

But back to the point, do you have a single bonafide case of Al Qaeda operating in Iraq prior to the start of the war? Given what I have seen from you so far, I am inclined to believe the United States Defense Department on this subject. Their report indicates that you are full of shit.

.

...  posted on  2007-04-07   18:51:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: BeAChooser (#23)

In court they didn't claim they were tortured

Haw haw haw haw haw haw haw!!!!!!!

Read your post before hitting the button. Ask yourself if your statement is utterly asinine or not. It will save you from this sort of moronic statement.

.

...  posted on  2007-04-07   18:53:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: ..., ALL (#17)

the incident took place in 2004

The bombers were caught in 2004 but they said they met al-Zarqawi in Iraq before the invasion when he hatched the plot and funded the operation. If you'd done any reading before you decided to embarrass yourself, you'd know that they then said they went to Syria and never returned to Iraq before they were caught trying to smuggle the vehicles, explosives and chemicals into Jordan.

Really, ..., you need a new act. This one has gotten really stale and is now only going to discredit you permanently.

Then I guess you'll change your screen name or move to yet another forum. Maybe a similar embarassment is why you won't tell us where you posted before 4um and under what screenname you posted. ROTFLOL!

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-04-07   18:53:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: BeAChooser (#23)

They didn't look tortured in the videos where they confessed.

Hah hah hah hah hah ha ha ha ha !!!!

Oh my sides.

Neither did the Brits did they. But you wingnuts don't have any trouble at all claiming they were tortured.

Since when do the put the guy on a rack in court? This has got to be the silliest red herring you have tried to date.

.

...  posted on  2007-04-07   18:56:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: ..., ALL (#18)

Not one of the URLs above is from this site.

False. I even linked you to the post at 4um where the links were provided to you:

http://freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=48869&Disp=160#C160

You're really determined to make yourself a laughing stock, aren't you.

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-04-07   18:56:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: BeAChooser (#26)

The bombers were caught in 2004 but they said they met al-Zarqawi in Iraq before the invasion when he hatched the plot and funded the operation.

Why don't you just re-write the story so that it says what you need it to say. Ooops, I forgot. You already tried that.

And I assume they met with Zarqawi in the northern no fly zone where Zarqawi was living at the time. The area where Saddam had no control. And I further assume you damn well know this and that you are again witholding relevant facts as the facts show you to be a deliberate bald faced liar.

.

...  posted on  2007-04-07   19:00:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: ..., ALL (#19)

This incident took place in 2004, well after the start of the war.

Maybe your problem is you can't read. I didn't say the incident took place before the war.

I said the terrorists admitted to having met with al-Zarqawi in Iraq before the war to hatch and fund the plot. And that fact has been documented in the mainstream press, not just Newsmax.

Really, ..., when will you try a new act? This one is not only old but tiresome.

But if you want to go on discrediting yourself, fine with me.

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-04-07   19:01:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: ..., ALL (#22)

I note that it doesn't say one fucking word about Al Qaeda operating in Iraq prior to the start of the war.

You're not being honest. Terrorists who ADMIT they are al-Qaeda say they met al-Zarqawi in Iraq before the invasion when he funded their chemical bomb plot. Apparently you have problems in math, too, and can't add 2 and 2.

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-04-07   19:04:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: BeAChooser, ... (#30)

Maybe your problem is you can't read.

Or doesn't have a monitor, trying to debate a bunch of blips and bleeps coming over the modem.

Yes, that must be the case.

"People like truth, it gives us a fucking benchmark." - dakmar

Dakmar  posted on  2007-04-07   19:05:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: BeAChooser (#28)

Changing the subject again are we?

What about Zarqawi being in the norther no fly zone prior to the start of the war? Was this where your alleged meeting took place? I notice that you choose your words very carefully when spinning this. Recall that Saddam had no authority in the Northern No Fly Zone and that is why Zarqawi operated there.

Given this, it seems the Defense Department report still stands and you are full of shit.

By the way, if any of the shit you spew is true, why doesn't Bush use it to save his sinking Presidency. I find it fascinating that you WILL NOT address this question.

.

...  posted on  2007-04-07   19:05:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: BeAChooser (#31)

Terrorists who ADMIT they are al-Qaeda

So you're saying only the British are capable of successful false-flag operations?

"People like truth, it gives us a fucking benchmark." - dakmar

Dakmar  posted on  2007-04-07   19:06:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: BeAChooser (#31)

You're not being honest. Terrorists who ADMIT they are al-Qaeda say they met al-Zarqawi in Iraq before the invasion when he funded their chemical bomb plot.

By your scummy weasel words I can tell that the only sources you have indicate that the meeting took place in the area where Zarqawi lived, the Northern No Fly Zone. An area where Saddam had no authority. Zarqawi operated there because Saddam would have hung him if he went to a Saddam controlled region.

.

...  posted on  2007-04-07   19:07:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: BeAChooser (#31)

Look kook, if you don't answer this question here, I am going to put up a separate thread and bump it day and night.

If any of your silly spew is true, if any shred of the moronic shit you have posted above is true, why doesn't Bush go on national TV tonight and save his sinking Presidency with it? Why does he leave it to kooks like you to push it on internet forums and why does it only come out in goob fooler rags like NewsMax - which, by the way, are targeted at gullible kooks like yourself?

.

...  posted on  2007-04-07   19:10:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: ..., ALL (#24)

"They say they met al-Zarqawi in Iraq before the invasion."

No, you say they say they met al-Zarqawi in Iraq before the invasion.

http://www.nti.org/d_newswire/issues/2005_6_30.html “I met with Abu Musab in Baghdad, who told me that a man called al-Jubouri will be the contact man between me and Abu Musab,” said Jayousi, one of 13 suspects in an alleged plan to attack Jordanian intelligence agency headquarters in Amman."

http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/terencejeffrey/2004/05/05/11586.html "Four surviving alleged terrorists were shown in videotaped statements. Their self-professed leader was identified as Azmi al-Jayyusi. "In Herat (Afghanistan), I began training for Abu Musab," Jayyusi says in a translation published by the BBC. "The training included high-level explosives and poison courses. I then pledged allegiance to Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and agreed to work for him without any discussion. After the fall of Afghanistan, I met al-Zarqawi once again in Iraq. "In Iraq, Abu Musab told me to go to Jordan along with Muwaffaq Udwan to prepare for a military operation in Jordan," said Jayyusi. Once he was in Jordan, Zarqawi sent him money via couriers, said Jayyusi. "He also supplied me, through messengers, with forged passports, identity cards and car registrations and all that is necessary.""

***************

Jaiousi admits meeting with Zarqawi in Baghdad, receiving instructions for attacks

Jordan Times 2005

30 June 2005

By Rana Husseini

Amman - The main defendant in the case of nine men standing trial for plotting the first chemical attack in the Kingdom, on Wednesday said he met with Abu Mussab Zarqawi in Baghdad to prepare for the alleged attacks.

In a videotape confession screened during the trial at the State Security Court (SSC) yesterday, Azmi Jaiousi said he met with Zarqawi and two other men in Iraq. "Zarqawi told me there would be military operations in Jordan soon and we needed to prepare for them... he gave me around $50,000, weapons, explosive devices and instructions to launch attacks. Our first target was State Prosecutor Mahmoud Obeidat," Jaiousi was quoted as saying in the videotape.

A second target was a General Intelligence Department (GID) officer who had blue eyes and a white Mercedes, he added. Jaiousi said he infiltrated into the Kingdom from Iraq in February 2002, hidden in a truck, and later met up with the rest of the defendants. Jaiousi also reenacted how he bought chemical substances, electric and electronic equipment and lab devices from shops in the downtown area.

The videotape also showed him manufacturing explosives and transporting empty jerry cans into trucks with defendants Husni Sharif and Ahmad Samir. The prosecution is charging that the defendants intended to use these deadly chemical substances in an attack on the GID headquarters. An explosives expert testified recently that if the chemical substances had been mixed with explosives they would have caused burns, suffocation and neurological paralysis.

During the screening of the video, the defendants claimed that the prosecution denied them the right of appointing lawyers to be present during the interrogations. Obeidat refuted their claims saying he had informed them of their right for an attorney, but they "turned down his offer." During the two-hour session, Obeidat rested his case opening the way for the defence team to present their evidence.

The defence lawyers asked the court for more time to meet with their clients and prepare the defence statements. The tribunal agreed and adjourned the session until next week. The nine men, part of a group of 13 suspects including Zarqawi, are also charged with possessing and manufacturing explosives with illicit intent, and possessing an automatic weapon with the intention of using it illegally. Jaiousi appeared on Jordan Television shortly after his arrest and described how he and other group members had bought and manufactured chemical explosives under the guidance and support of Zarqawi."

*********

I do know that they were tortured however

Really? You were there and saw it? Because none of the mainstream articles has indicated anything to suggest torture.

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-04-07   19:13:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: ..., ALL (#29)

And I assume they met with Zarqawi in the northern no fly zone where Zarqawi was living at the time.

No, they clearly stated they met him in BAGHDAD.

Your desperation is beginning to show, ...

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-04-07   19:15:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: ..., ALL (#33)

What about Zarqawi being in the norther no fly zone prior to the start of the war? Was this where your alleged meeting took place? I notice that you choose your words very carefully when spinning this.

No, I've clearly stated from the beginning that the terrorists said they met al-Zarqawi in Baghdad. Are you democRAT, ...? Is that why you show no shame while embarrassing yourself as badly as you have on this thread?

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-04-07   19:17:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: BeAChooser (#31)

To recap, you claimed that the Jordan bomb plot proved Al Qaeda was operating in Iraq prior to the war.

I pointed out that the damn thing took place in April 2004, an entire year after the commencement of hostilitites.

You also claimed that the perps met with Zarqawi "in Iraq" prior to the war - and you were very tight lipped about the rest of the details.

I pointed out that prior to the war, Zarqawi lived in the Northern No Fly Zone. An area where Saddam had no authority. I also pointed out that Zarqawi lived there because Saddam would have hung him if Saddam could have gotten his hand on Zarqawi prior to the war - Saddam was inclined to do that to these religious nuts, as were the secular governments of Egypt.

So basically kook, you tried to fool us by bending the fact in a story which you knew damn good and well did not suppport your assertion.

You are a lying scumbag.

.

...  posted on  2007-04-07   19:17:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: BeAChooser (#39)

No, I've clearly stated from the beginning that the terrorists said they met al-Zarqawi in Baghdad.

Prove it.

Zarqawi wasn't allowed in Saddam controlled territory. That is one of the reasons the United States defense department reported as it did. That is the reason Zarqawi operated out of the norther territories.

.

...  posted on  2007-04-07   19:19:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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