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Title: Conservatives Love to Fantasize About Their Own Persecution and Subversiveness
Source:
Kos
URL Source: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/4/6/211121/9816
Published: Apr 6, 2007
Author: EmperorHadrian
Post Date: 2007-04-06 22:48:45 by ...
Keywords: None
Views: 1134
Comments: 94
I was watching Scarborough Country on MSNBC the other day. He seemed to suggest that he thinks Christians are being persecuted. That got me thinking about a larger issue. Why is it that conservatives love to revel in fantasies of their own marginality and persecution? Why is it they have these persecution fantasies? You don't just notice this with the religious right. You notice this amongst all varieties of social conservative. "Christians" think they are being persecuted by evil secularists who run everything from Wal-Mart to the courts. People who oppose gay rights think they are continuously looked down upon, and their views are constantly under assault by, the "gay agenda." So I must ask this question: why is it conservatives love to play victims, and fantasize about being persecuted? One thing that is interesting about the conservative persecution fantasy is that it is remarkably similar to leftist persecution fantasies during the early 20th century. Conservative complaints about an effete overclass, which the common middle American man can never defeat is remarkably similar to Marxist beliefs of the 1920s and 1930s, that the common man was caught in a machine run by the elite capitalists. Complaints by people like Rush Limbaugh, that the "liberal elite" is running and ruining everything are remarkably similar to Marxist complaints about how evil capitalists were doing the same thing. One way to answer the question about the right-wing persecution complex is to look at where most conservatives are on the ideological spectrum. Any democrat who might be viewed as "far left" (such as Denis Kucinich) isn't a fraction as far to the left as people like Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Tom DeLay or Dick Cheney are to the right. People on the extreme of either end of the ideological spectrum are ideologues. Since most conservatives are so far to the right, many of them are ideologues. Ideologues are uninterested in fact or reason. They are convinced that they are always right about everything. Thus no one can convince them they are wrong about anything or reason with them. If you knew the absolute truth about everything, why would you let someone use facts or anything else to convince you that you don't know the absolute truth about everything? Since conservatives are ideologues, it appears that part of their ideology is that they are constantly being persecuted by an overclass that looks down on them. The overcalass that they believe is perseucting them is what they call the "liberal elite." Much like Emmanuel Goldstien in George Orwell's book "Nineteen-Eightyfour," this elite overclass deosn't actually exist. It isn't the ACLU that forces Wal-Mart clerks to say "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas," it is the management of Wal-Mart, who sees "Happy Holidays" as being more neutral in our pluralistic society. It isn't the "Hollywood elite" who continuesly pushes every form of social deviance through movies and television, it is the economic conservatives who run Hollywood. Hollywood and Wal-Mart are both commercial enterprises, run by economic conservatives. The same can be said about everything from the media to corporate policies regarding equal employment for gays. Becuase conservatives are ideologues, we can never convince them that they aren't being persecuted. Thus, we cannot reason with these conservatives on this issue, just like we can't reason with Bush on the escalation in Iraq, or that Saddam wasn't actually behind 9/11, or that WMDs were not actually found in Iraq. They are both convinced that they know the absolute truth. One of the more ridiculous of the persecution fantasies is the idea that somehow Christians are being persecuted. Now by "Christians," typically we mean Evangelicals. Evangelicals routinely use the term "Christian" interchangeably with the term "Evangelical." Except for a few fundamentalist Catholics, few Catholics and few mainline protestants claim to be persecuted. And few of these people use the term "Christian" to be interchangeable with their denomination. What makes the claim that "Christians" are persecuted so ridiculous is that 85% of all Americans are Christians. Wal-Mart isn't run by atheists. The courts aren't full of atheists. One toy the religious right loves is when some companies tell their employees to saw "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas" to customers. The religious right sees this as a great assault on "Christians." Never mind that the decision to have employees say this (usually the companies don't care which one their employees use anyway) has a marketing and public relations rationale. It isn't because atheists run corporate America and hate "Christians." We saw another example of this religious right persecution fantasy with former Alabama Supreme Court Chief Justice Roy Moore and his Ten Commandments monument. Make no mistkae, Moore put this monument outside of the Alabama Courthouse deliberately to draw a lawsuit from the ACLU. And the only possible outcome of such a lawsuit would be that a federal court orders Moore to remove the monument. And then he tried to turn himself into a "martyr" by refusing to abide by the orders of the federal court, which costed him his job. Another area where the right-wing loves to play the victim is with gay rights. They love to act as though gays demanding equal rights is an assault on their "values" and actually the demand for greater rights than everyone else by the "homosexual agenda." They claim to be persecuted by the "homosexual agenda" when, in something typical of a right-wing claim, the exact opposite is true. It is the right-wing who is persecuting gays, not the other way around. This again goes to an interesting point in these right-wing claims, regardless of if they are about gay-rights, religion, or whatever: that these people who claim to be persecuted are actually part of a majority group. Typically it has been minorities (or sometimes majority groups that have been disenfranchised and thus had been politically powerless for generations) that have been persecuted. You can't have congress persecute the majority, when the majority is what elects congress. Another area you see these ludicrous arguments are in relation to the media. Conservatives claim they are victims of "liberal bias" in the media. In reality, the media (whether its CBS, ABC, NBC, the Washington Post, the New York Times, or whoever) is not biased. Reality has a liberal bias. The MSM is biased only so far as it is biased towards reality. Since conservative claims typically don't come from fact or reality, and yet what the MSM reports on does come from fact and reality, conservatives claim liberal bias. This is a useful mechanism, because it allows them to dismiss all negative stories about them as being the products of bias. Again, in a manner you find throughout conservative claims, what they claim is actually the exact opposite of what is true. It isn't the MSM that is biased, and the "conservative media" that is "fair and balanced" and presents "the conservative side of the story." The conservative media doesn't just present the conservative side of the story, it does exactly what conservatives accuse the MSM of doing: it distorts facts, makes up reality, exists solely for the benefit of a single political party, and filters everything through a partisan and ideological lens. Thomas Frank talks about this conservative persecution fantasy in his book, "What's the Matter with Kansas?" His convincingly argues that these persecution fantasies are generated by the (decidedly not persecuted) economic conservatives who run the republican party. They use these fantasies to stroke the anger and indignation of social conservatives. They make those social conservatives feel helpless and like victims. The enemy, they are told, is the Frenchified "liberal elite," who looks down its nose at these "regular people" in "middle America." It is this persecution complex that the social conservatives end up with, that caused them to continue electing republicans. It doesn't matter that, when in office, those same republicans pass laws that screw the social conservatives economicly. It doesn't matter that these republicans deregulate, deunionize, keep wages low, outsource jobs, keep college expensive and keep healthcare unaffordable. Not only that, but the republicans in power ignore the demands of the social conservatives. Abortion is never outlawed, school praryer never returns, gay rights are never rolled back. The social conservatives don't care because every two years they are again told about the evils of gay marriage and abortion, and how democrats have Christianity and love killing babies. The fiscal conservatives running for office make the social conservatives feel like perseucted victims. And because of that, the social conservatives return to the ballot box again and again, to proudly reelect their republican masters.
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#31. To: Dakmar (#23)
I'm looking forward to the new comic strip, Dakmar and Jeff Rense.
Remember the movie Groundhog Day? Good flick. What if instead of waking up over and over to the same day, time went on, but everyone in the town suffered from a recurring amnesia? And what if instead of falling in love, Bill Murray's protagonist wanted to be mayor? That'd be a neat movie.
Sounds like fun. I get to be Arthur Dent, ok?
"People like truth, it gives us a fucking benchmark." - dakmar
And Darth wanted Luke to strike at him in anger.
Remember the movie Groundhog Day? Good flick. What if instead of waking up over and over to the same day, time went on, but everyone in the town suffered from a recurring amnesia? And what if instead of falling in love, Bill Murray's protagonist wanted to be mayor? That'd be a neat movie.
Something like that.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Those are not conspiracies against Christians. In all those areas- the religion of the people is of no consequence to what is happening or has happened to them. If the Serbs of Kosovo were Rastafarians they would have been treated no differently by our Cabal government. I doubt anyone in Washington has given a fig of thought to the fate of Christian minorities in Iraq or anywhere else they might invade and conquoer. They don't care. Quite simply- no one is persecuting Christians for the sake of them being Christians.
The "christian" countries are the only ones being pressured to multi-culturalise, how do you explain that, kung-fu?
"People like truth, it gives us a fucking benchmark." - dakmar
If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is around to hear it, do the branches on one side get smashed when it hits the ground?
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Not exactly. Orthodox Christians being a type of Christian alien to the reichwingers as you so aptly named them makes them fall into the other category and thus why they are not given much thought. I have a feeling that if there existed an evangelical Christian country out there with all the social values the Freepernuts claim they stand for but it stood in the way of American foreign policy they would find a reason to support a war against them. It always amused me that Freepernuts would pile on the hate for France's Chirac when his party is a right of center party. They got it into their heads that France was lefty while the Freepernut love affair with the UK's Blair is not hindered by the fact he is left of 'Hitlery'.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
I am sure Iraq would rather be pressed to "multi culturize" rather than be occupied and subject to murder, mayhem, and abject grinding poverty. Iraq is de facto three countries right now. The Serbs should be thankful they don't sit over oil fields rather than a pipeline route and some mines of semi precious metals. And a good way to keep your middle class in line and diverted is to foist some minority on them and then sit back and let things play out. The reason why Moslem countries are not being subjected to this- is because they are getting worse- war and pillage.
It's not the question that's anti-semetic, only the answer.
We should talk the Senate into paying us not to call people "kung-fu" anymore. With me?
"People like truth, it gives us a fucking benchmark." - dakmar
Freepernuts hate whom they are told to hate. They could be made to hate (and fear) a nation that was virtually a carbon copy of themselves with little effort. Rapture nutterism in America isn't really about the spiritual- it is about the material and it is highly nationalistic. Its a sick twisted tribal revenge fantasy and a cult of prosperity (their preachers flaunt their wealth for a reason). There is a hostility towards all religious belief among an intellectual strata in this country and that occassionaly finds expression in high profile law suits to take down a creche somewhere on a town square or keep the ten commandments out of schools. But that isn't a "War on Christians". It is jackasses being jackasses. The people running our foreign policy don't give a crap about access to churches in Israel, or the plight of the Iraqi Christians, or the treatment of Evangelicals in Turkey. And it doesn't matter to them what religion the Serbs are- or the Greeks. They would screw them no matter what religion they were.
I always thought that was a side effect of Chirac's disdain for George and Dicks Excellent Adventure.
"People like truth, it gives us a fucking benchmark." - dakmar
And by the way- the most "European" of Moslem countries is being pressured to "multi culturize" as a pre-condition of getting into the European Union. Unless the already highly secular (if corrupt) government of Turkey doesn't do more to make Islam little more than what Christianity has become in Europe- devoid of real content, a cultural whisper, and deracinated of content and prestiege- then they don't get in the "prosperity" club- but rather are treated like how the west treats all non member countries without nukes- as peons to provide raw materials or slave labor in sweat shops.
That is a little off the mark as someone who has very real links/info to the region. I know to you its sounds like they are trying to make Turkey accept a destabilizing 'multi-cultural force' but how can the EU accept a Turkey that does not allow people to worship freely? The issue of course is Islam - why should the EU lower standards to let Turkey in? You want to join a club? Then meet the club's membership standards. By the way - if ever there was a nation that was multi-cultural it is Turkey. Homogenous Turkey or Turkish ethnicity is a modern Kemalist invention.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Please. They don't care about people not being allowed to worship freely in Turkey. They want Islam deracinated like Christianity is in Europe. They want Ramadam to be the same sort of contentless consumer mega holiday and orgy of spending that Christmas has become. And if the Turks don't show enough "tolerance" (ie- cultural nihilism) they don't get in the club but rather get the same "free trade" treatment the West doles out to the rest of the world. It isn't like being in the European Union is just another club. It means you are a "made nation" and can join in the plunder of the rest of the world. Turkey has a choice. Surrender to the same forces of "multi culturism" that the West has become and be "rich" or hold onto their culture and be a slightly better off exploited second world nation whose biggest export is young males to Europe to be coolies and peons.
Be that as it may and if I understand you correctly - it is the EU's club is it not? Why should Turkey be able to join the EU (and I am no fan of the EU) without meeting the EU's conditions? Turkey has NO RIGHT to join the EU - joining the EU is a condition of privilege not a god given right (if I can phrase it that way). Turkey does not like the membership conditions - then they should not join.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
There is a conspiracy against those who believe in freedom of speech in particular and white people in particular. When the dollar collapses, wages are cut 50% and pensions cut 90%, the government will have to defend itself at all costs against people (mostly white) who believe in freedom. I urge people to move out of major American cities. I expect the dollar to collapse and America to go into a state of chaos before the end of 2009. And it has all happened because of a plan made by Wall Street and the Zionists.
The Truth of 911 Shall Set You Free From The Lie
I am not arguing right of the club to set their rules. But when the club is a club of criminal pirate nations that ask you to shed your identity in order to stop being abused by this club and enjoy its benefits- that is a different dynamic. Membership in this club derives benefits that are NOT available elsewhere. You asked if Moslem nations are being pressured to deracinate themselves. Well- the only one the West would even consider letting in their little sphere of prosperity that rests almost entirely now on military force and bullyism is being made to make themselves into the image of the West- essentially godless with religion as a stage prop. They are being asked to "multi culturize" like the poor exploited Christian nations you think are being targeted because they are Greek Orthodox or whatnot. Still - Turkey at least being considered while pressured to dump their culture is better than being any other Moslem country which is subject to all manner of ill treatment at the hands of the west- up to and including decimation if not genocide. I imagine many Iraqis would give their right arms to be Christians in Bosnia or Syria right now or a Serb living in a comparitively peaceful Kosovo refugee camp outside Belgrade.
Maybe it does. So why should Turkey get to join this club as is? Again, I know this sounds like it but it I am not making a pro EU position - EU's club - EU's rule. I am sure forcing the Mormons of Utah to drop polygamy, a central tenet of their faith sucked for the Morman faithful as well but that was one of the rules the USA had set for membership into its Union. I don't think that is the best comparison but it fits best. I can't be upset that Turkey is told that for her to join the EU she has to accept what you feel are horrible EU values.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
You are not following me. The EU and The United States represent a bloc of explotative nations - with the EU pretty much allowing the US to be the muscle while lamely and weakly pretending to protest its military imperial adventures. Now you are either a member of this club or you are not and are a peon nation (with a few middling exceptions like Russia and China) that is taken advantage of by this gang of nations. It's "Rules" are the only ones in town. It is the only club. You know- Europe at one time used to live by the principles that what your culture was in your country- was your business and it didn't preclude good relations and free and fair trade. That isn't the case today with Europe and the US which dictate internal policies of countries in order to not be treated like a shitbird country. Indeed- they demand that all countries make themselves in their image or else face at best- indifferent exploitation under the guise of "Free trade" (which is Orwellian named as it is anything but) or varying degrees of hostility from economic warfare to clandestine meddaling for "Regime change" to outright military attack and occupation. Now- you can pretend their is "choice" in there, but accepting my characterization of the EU - there isn't.
Very interesting and eye-opening post.
It is sad to say that Turkey is so shit addled a country that joining a shitty group like the EU is probably an improvement for those barbarians while for a country like Ukraine it would destroy their national ethnic character.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Oh- I forgot- you are Turk hater and Greek uber nationalist. How sad. Everyone has their little "ism" when you come down to it- with their moron simplifications. Most people need them to give themselves some sort of direction in life rather than themselves. Herd instinct.
I would not put it that way. But I don't see why I should respect Turkey when it is a country that lives along the lines what you claim the reichwingers crave minus the religious zeal. Worship of the military, laws against violating national honor, etc. Turkey is a primo example of a statist state. So I may be a Turk hater or not but if you claim to stand for what you stand how can you be anything but a Turk hater? And note being a Turk hater does not mean I want the USA to invade Turkey. Not fund those barbarians with my tax money? Hell yes - invade? No. I was no fan of Saddam either but do you see me cheering his downfall?
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Because I don't hate Turks because of their government. Let's leave it alone- you are pretty irrational and stupid when it comes to this topic. Turks suck- I know- blah blah. Russia rules. Ukraine is awesome. whatever.
Turks have been this way before their govt. Were the Huns bad or did Atilla's rule make them bad? Do you know how many Kurds the Turks have killed? Three times as many as they claim Saddam killed. So you tell me how am I to view Turkey? Not get involved? All for it - cut off all US funding for Turkey (and every country on the planet) and don't sell them arms. By the way - "Ukraine is awesome" Since when have I ever said that? Russia does not rule - I hope it does one day.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Like I said- great simplifications. I am not interested in what I am sure is your copious number of idiotic links that prove how evil the Turks are. Hating turks is your gig- reveling in your own greek (and slavic) fart stink- is your bag. I get it. I know lots of people like you- love to roll around in their "Irish idenity" and get all up into that bullshit. Same crap as any "ism"- same lies- same idiotic group herd think. Just another form of collectivism in my book- and an old way for elites to rally dopes to die for their narrow interests. You "hope" Russia "rules?" Why? Oh- that's right- they are so awesome and all. Yawn.
On a personal level, when I visited Istanbul, I thought it was a slice of Heaven - so much history and the Turks rocked, far more open and friendly to Westerners than EU Greece and its heralded islands ( tourist traps many of them that offset their physical beauty). However, this was just an aside - I think I jumbled the ship that sank off the Greek islands with this thread about - oops, I forget - it's Friday night! hey and we're still alive despite the red terror high alert - pass the wine, we may not live to see tomorrow according to Comrade Jerkoff...
I really have no personal experience with Turks or Greeks for that matter. I am sure there are great things about each country and things that suck about them. I am not trying to say I am some PC guy who goes around smelling out "Racists". But I don't- by any means believe my shit don't stink and that any group of people are collectively evil or the culture totally worthless. I may not like certain cultures. I may even think them damn weird. But I am not going to "hate" them. And I especially am not going to hate anyone based on some petty wars or policies of past governments that cabals of statists carried out. I don't hate English people for the past acts of cabals of statists against Ireland. I further don't hate them because I don't even live there- I live 3000 miles away from that country and have even less of real reason to "hate" an Englishman. I find it beyond moronic to bump into these uber Irish nationalists whose families have been in this country for 4 generations- going off about the evil Enlgish and whining about shit 150 years old. And the only thing "Irish" about these clowns is usually a cladaugh ring and they get stupid drunk on St Patty's day wearing a green turtle neck. Its embarassing. It gets even more embarassing when they bump into an Irishman from Ireland and they assume that they have the same hangups about Enlgand-- Usually they get stares like "What the fuck are you talking about?"
Ditto - I could not have said it better.
You mistake my aversion for culture with a hatred of people on a racial or ethnic level. Turkey's culture emerged from the Asiatic steppes - it is a culture which wwill have the man welcome you to his tent and treat you like family but when he sees you a few weeks later while he and his clansmen are raiding will cut your head off and make a drinking cup of it.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
I hope you didn't get to close to the apes when studying them in their tents. Remember what happened to Dian Fossey.
Greeks say the same thing about Turkish tourist hospitality so I can't say you are wrong. I think Greeks being much more wealthy these days don't really run to get that extra tourist euro like a Turk has to. Also some Greeks hate Americans and Western Europeans in such a way that they just can't stand the sight of them. I think the Greeks have developed a culture dating back to antiquity where if you conquer them but leave them alone they won't hate you but get involved in their business - even if for their own good and they will unite in hatred against you. Persians ruled the Ionian Greeks until they started to get involved in local affairs and the Greeks revolted. Romans were butchered by the same Ionian Greeks in the uprising by Mithridates - but mainland Greeks saw few uprising against Rome because Rome allowed them a wide degree of local autonomy. The Turks also left the Greeks alone for a few centuries until the Ottomans started to get corrupt (more so than usual) and demand more taxes from their Greeks and the Greeks went to war for independence. Italy asked for military access through Greece in WW2 and Greece went to war with them. The West - especially America - rides over the Balkans regions these days including backing dictatorship on the Greeks to get them to behave and that makes the Greeks go ballistic against the Americans.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
I had to look up who Dian Fossey was so I don't get the allusion.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Well, obviously if their families had had any real problem with the English, they'd have already fled here and not be still living over there. He was probably a descendent of traitorous cowardly quisling English-boot-licking scum. ;^)
Check out my blog, America, the Bushieful.
Anyone who talks about turks drinking blood from skulls wouldn't.
Quite.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Whole-page picture from the biggest American weekly LIFE Magazine. This "Picture of the Week" shows a beautiful blonde, 20 year old Natalie Nickerson from Phoenix, Arizona. She sits by her desk with pen in hand, dreamingly contemplating the skull of a killed Japanese that was sent to her by her American Navy lieutenant boyfriend. The text reads: "Arizona war worker writes her Navy boyfriend a thank-you note for the Jap skull he sent her. When he said goodby two years ago to Natalie Nickerson, 20 a war worker of Phoenix, Ariz., a big, handsome Navy lieutenant promised her a Jap. Last week Natalie received a human skull, autographed by her lieutenant and 13 friends, and inscribed: "This is a good Jap - a dead one picked up on the New Guinea beach." Natalie, surprised at the gift, named it Tojo. The armed forces disapprove strongly of this sort of thing." United States: "We boiled the flesh off enemy skulls" "Japanese skulls were much-envied trophies among U.S. Marines in the Pacific theater during World War II. The practice of collecting them apparently began after the bloody conflict on Guadalcanal, when the troops set up the skulls as ornaments or totems atop poles as a type of warning. The Marines boiled the skulls and then used lye to remove any residual flesh so they would be suitable as souvenirs. U.S. sailors cleaned their trophy skulls by putting them in nets and dragging them behind their vessels. Winfield Townley Scott wrote a wartime poem, 'The U.S. Sailor with the Japanese Skull" that detailed the entire technique of preserving the headskull as a souvenir. In 1943 Life magazine published the picture of a U.S. sailor's girlfriend contemplating a Japanese skull sent to her as a gift - with a note written on the top of the skull. Referring to this practice, Edward L. Jones, a U.S. war correspondent in the Pacific wrote in the February 1946 Atlantic Magazine, "We boiled the flesh off enemy skulls to make table ornaments for sweethearts, or carved their bones into letter-openers." On occasion, these "Japanese trophy skulls" have confused police when they have turned up during murder investigations. It has been reported that when the remains of Japanese soldiers were repatriated from the Mariana Islands in 1984, sixty percent were missing their skulls."
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#32. To: Tauzero (#31)
#33. To: Destro (#29)
#34. To: Tauzero (#33)
And Darth wanted Luke to strike at him in anger.
#35. To: Destro (#28)
#36. To: Burkeman1 (#35)
#37. To: Dakmar (#36)
#38. To: Burkeman1 (#35)
(Edited)
I doubt anyone in Washington has given a fig of thought to the fate of Christian minorities in Iraq or anywhere else they might invade and conquoer. They don't care. Quite simply- no one is persecuting Christians for the sake of them being Christians.
#39. To: Dakmar (#36)
#40. To: Dakmar (#36)
The "christian" countries are the only ones being pressured to multi-culturalise, how do you explain that, kung-fu?
#41. To: Esso (#40)
#42. To: Destro (#38)
#43. To: Destro (#38)
It always amused me that Freepernuts would pile on the hate for France's Chirac when his party is a right of center party.
#44. To: Destro (#38)
#45. To: Burkeman1 (#44)
And by the way- the most "European" of Moslem countries is being pressured to "multi culturize" as a pre-condition of getting into the European Union.
#46. To: Destro (#45)
#47. To: Burkeman1 (#46)
Please. They don't care about people not being allowed to worship freely in Turkey. They want Islam deracinated like Christianity is in Europe. They want Ramadam to be the same sort of contentless consumer mega holiday and orgy of spending that Christmas has become.
#48. To: Burkeman1 (#26)
This isn't Russia. There are no cadres of murderous communists running around burning icons and using churches as Red Army Stables. There is no "Conspiracy" against Christians in this country.
#49. To: Destro (#47)
#50. To: Burkeman1 (#49)
Membership in this club derives benefits that are NOT available elsewhere.
#51. To: Destro (#50)
#52. To: Destro (#29)
In India the massacre evoked feelings of deep anguish and anger. It catalysed the freedom movement in the Punjab against British rule and paved the way for Mohandas Gandhi's Non-Cooperation Movement against the British in 1920.
#53. To: Burkeman1 (#51)
#54. To: Diana (#52)
Dyer said he would have used his machine guns if he could have got them into the enclosure, but these were mounted on armoured cars. He said he did not stop firing when the crowd began to disperse because he thought it was his duty to keep firing until the crowd dispersed, and that a little firing would do no good.
#55. To: Destro (#53)
#56. To: Burkeman1 (#55)
(Edited)
Oh- I forgot- you are Turk hater and Greek uber nationalist.
#57. To: Destro (#56)
#58. To: Burkeman1 (#57)
Because I don't hate Turks because of their government
#59. To: Destro (#58)
#60. To: Burkeman1, Destro, robin (#57)
#61. To: scrapper2 (#60)
#62. To: Burkeman1 (#61)
But I don't- by any means believe my shit don't stink and that any group of people are collectively evil or the culture totally worthless. I may not like certain cultures. I may even think them damn weird. But I am not going to "hate" them. And I especially am not going to hate anyone based on some petty wars or policies of past governments that cabals of statists carried out.
#63. To: Burkeman1, scrapper2 (#61)
I am not trying to say I am some PC guy who goes around smelling out "Racists".
#64. To: Destro (#63)
#65. To: scrapper2, Burkeman1 (#60)
On a personal level, when I visited Istanbul, I thought it was a slice of Heaven - so much history and the Turks rocked, far more open and friendly to Westerners than EU Greece and its heralded islands ( tourist traps many of them that offset their physical beauty).
#66. To: Burkeman1 (#64)
#67. To: Burkeman1 (#61)
It gets even more embarassing when they bump into an Irishman from Ireland and they assume that they have the same hangups about England-- Usually they get stares like "What the fuck are you talking about?"
#68. To: Destro (#66)
I don't get the allusion.
#69. To: Arator (#67)
He was probably a descendent of traitorous cowardly quisling English-boot-licking scum.
#70. To: Burkeman1 (#68)
Anyone who talks about turks drinking blood from skulls wouldn't.
Armenian heads as trophies photographed by a German Officer in Turkey.
#71. To: Destro (#70)
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