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Title: Conservatives Love to Fantasize About Their Own Persecution and Subversiveness
Source:
Kos
URL Source: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/4/6/211121/9816
Published: Apr 6, 2007
Author: EmperorHadrian
Post Date: 2007-04-06 22:48:45 by ...
Keywords: None
Views: 1093
Comments: 94
I was watching Scarborough Country on MSNBC the other day. He seemed to suggest that he thinks Christians are being persecuted. That got me thinking about a larger issue. Why is it that conservatives love to revel in fantasies of their own marginality and persecution? Why is it they have these persecution fantasies? You don't just notice this with the religious right. You notice this amongst all varieties of social conservative. "Christians" think they are being persecuted by evil secularists who run everything from Wal-Mart to the courts. People who oppose gay rights think they are continuously looked down upon, and their views are constantly under assault by, the "gay agenda." So I must ask this question: why is it conservatives love to play victims, and fantasize about being persecuted? One thing that is interesting about the conservative persecution fantasy is that it is remarkably similar to leftist persecution fantasies during the early 20th century. Conservative complaints about an effete overclass, which the common middle American man can never defeat is remarkably similar to Marxist beliefs of the 1920s and 1930s, that the common man was caught in a machine run by the elite capitalists. Complaints by people like Rush Limbaugh, that the "liberal elite" is running and ruining everything are remarkably similar to Marxist complaints about how evil capitalists were doing the same thing. One way to answer the question about the right-wing persecution complex is to look at where most conservatives are on the ideological spectrum. Any democrat who might be viewed as "far left" (such as Denis Kucinich) isn't a fraction as far to the left as people like Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Tom DeLay or Dick Cheney are to the right. People on the extreme of either end of the ideological spectrum are ideologues. Since most conservatives are so far to the right, many of them are ideologues. Ideologues are uninterested in fact or reason. They are convinced that they are always right about everything. Thus no one can convince them they are wrong about anything or reason with them. If you knew the absolute truth about everything, why would you let someone use facts or anything else to convince you that you don't know the absolute truth about everything? Since conservatives are ideologues, it appears that part of their ideology is that they are constantly being persecuted by an overclass that looks down on them. The overcalass that they believe is perseucting them is what they call the "liberal elite." Much like Emmanuel Goldstien in George Orwell's book "Nineteen-Eightyfour," this elite overclass deosn't actually exist. It isn't the ACLU that forces Wal-Mart clerks to say "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas," it is the management of Wal-Mart, who sees "Happy Holidays" as being more neutral in our pluralistic society. It isn't the "Hollywood elite" who continuesly pushes every form of social deviance through movies and television, it is the economic conservatives who run Hollywood. Hollywood and Wal-Mart are both commercial enterprises, run by economic conservatives. The same can be said about everything from the media to corporate policies regarding equal employment for gays. Becuase conservatives are ideologues, we can never convince them that they aren't being persecuted. Thus, we cannot reason with these conservatives on this issue, just like we can't reason with Bush on the escalation in Iraq, or that Saddam wasn't actually behind 9/11, or that WMDs were not actually found in Iraq. They are both convinced that they know the absolute truth. One of the more ridiculous of the persecution fantasies is the idea that somehow Christians are being persecuted. Now by "Christians," typically we mean Evangelicals. Evangelicals routinely use the term "Christian" interchangeably with the term "Evangelical." Except for a few fundamentalist Catholics, few Catholics and few mainline protestants claim to be persecuted. And few of these people use the term "Christian" to be interchangeable with their denomination. What makes the claim that "Christians" are persecuted so ridiculous is that 85% of all Americans are Christians. Wal-Mart isn't run by atheists. The courts aren't full of atheists. One toy the religious right loves is when some companies tell their employees to saw "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas" to customers. The religious right sees this as a great assault on "Christians." Never mind that the decision to have employees say this (usually the companies don't care which one their employees use anyway) has a marketing and public relations rationale. It isn't because atheists run corporate America and hate "Christians." We saw another example of this religious right persecution fantasy with former Alabama Supreme Court Chief Justice Roy Moore and his Ten Commandments monument. Make no mistkae, Moore put this monument outside of the Alabama Courthouse deliberately to draw a lawsuit from the ACLU. And the only possible outcome of such a lawsuit would be that a federal court orders Moore to remove the monument. And then he tried to turn himself into a "martyr" by refusing to abide by the orders of the federal court, which costed him his job. Another area where the right-wing loves to play the victim is with gay rights. They love to act as though gays demanding equal rights is an assault on their "values" and actually the demand for greater rights than everyone else by the "homosexual agenda." They claim to be persecuted by the "homosexual agenda" when, in something typical of a right-wing claim, the exact opposite is true. It is the right-wing who is persecuting gays, not the other way around. This again goes to an interesting point in these right-wing claims, regardless of if they are about gay-rights, religion, or whatever: that these people who claim to be persecuted are actually part of a majority group. Typically it has been minorities (or sometimes majority groups that have been disenfranchised and thus had been politically powerless for generations) that have been persecuted. You can't have congress persecute the majority, when the majority is what elects congress. Another area you see these ludicrous arguments are in relation to the media. Conservatives claim they are victims of "liberal bias" in the media. In reality, the media (whether its CBS, ABC, NBC, the Washington Post, the New York Times, or whoever) is not biased. Reality has a liberal bias. The MSM is biased only so far as it is biased towards reality. Since conservative claims typically don't come from fact or reality, and yet what the MSM reports on does come from fact and reality, conservatives claim liberal bias. This is a useful mechanism, because it allows them to dismiss all negative stories about them as being the products of bias. Again, in a manner you find throughout conservative claims, what they claim is actually the exact opposite of what is true. It isn't the MSM that is biased, and the "conservative media" that is "fair and balanced" and presents "the conservative side of the story." The conservative media doesn't just present the conservative side of the story, it does exactly what conservatives accuse the MSM of doing: it distorts facts, makes up reality, exists solely for the benefit of a single political party, and filters everything through a partisan and ideological lens. Thomas Frank talks about this conservative persecution fantasy in his book, "What's the Matter with Kansas?" His convincingly argues that these persecution fantasies are generated by the (decidedly not persecuted) economic conservatives who run the republican party. They use these fantasies to stroke the anger and indignation of social conservatives. They make those social conservatives feel helpless and like victims. The enemy, they are told, is the Frenchified "liberal elite," who looks down its nose at these "regular people" in "middle America." It is this persecution complex that the social conservatives end up with, that caused them to continue electing republicans. It doesn't matter that, when in office, those same republicans pass laws that screw the social conservatives economicly. It doesn't matter that these republicans deregulate, deunionize, keep wages low, outsource jobs, keep college expensive and keep healthcare unaffordable. Not only that, but the republicans in power ignore the demands of the social conservatives. Abortion is never outlawed, school praryer never returns, gay rights are never rolled back. The social conservatives don't care because every two years they are again told about the evils of gay marriage and abortion, and how democrats have Christianity and love killing babies. The fiscal conservatives running for office make the social conservatives feel like perseucted victims. And because of that, the social conservatives return to the ballot box again and again, to proudly reelect their republican masters.
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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 73.
#21. To: ..., Burkeman1, Lodwick (#0)
The Zio-Communists killed 60,000,000 people in Russia and most of these people were Christians. They should pay attention to systemactic anti-Christian campaigns. And conservatives are not ideologues. We are for principles, such as, free markets, property rights and the Bill of Rights which have proven themselves beneficial. Neo-Cons are Zionists and not true conservatives. They are self- destructive and will destroy America.
This isn't Russia. There are no cadres of murderous communists running around burning icons and using churches as Red Army Stables. There is no "Conspiracy" against Christians in this country. And it's nice that you and the three other "real conservatives" want to still use that term to describe yourselves- but in the real world of commonly accepted political parlance- American "conservatism" is defined by the reichwingers at Freerepublic and the mainstream of the GOP- fascism, state worship, and militarism- without principle or honor and utterly amoral. That is what "conservative" has come to mean in this country.
Unless they are overseas Orthodox Christians - see Bosnia, Kosovo, Russia and the elimination of Orthodox Christians from Iraq and the planned elimination of Orthodox/Eastern Christians from the only Middle Eastern countries where they live persecution free - Syria and Iran.
Those are not conspiracies against Christians. In all those areas- the religion of the people is of no consequence to what is happening or has happened to them. If the Serbs of Kosovo were Rastafarians they would have been treated no differently by our Cabal government. I doubt anyone in Washington has given a fig of thought to the fate of Christian minorities in Iraq or anywhere else they might invade and conquoer. They don't care. Quite simply- no one is persecuting Christians for the sake of them being Christians.
Not exactly. Orthodox Christians being a type of Christian alien to the reichwingers as you so aptly named them makes them fall into the other category and thus why they are not given much thought. I have a feeling that if there existed an evangelical Christian country out there with all the social values the Freepernuts claim they stand for but it stood in the way of American foreign policy they would find a reason to support a war against them. It always amused me that Freepernuts would pile on the hate for France's Chirac when his party is a right of center party. They got it into their heads that France was lefty while the Freepernut love affair with the UK's Blair is not hindered by the fact he is left of 'Hitlery'.
And by the way- the most "European" of Moslem countries is being pressured to "multi culturize" as a pre-condition of getting into the European Union. Unless the already highly secular (if corrupt) government of Turkey doesn't do more to make Islam little more than what Christianity has become in Europe- devoid of real content, a cultural whisper, and deracinated of content and prestiege- then they don't get in the "prosperity" club- but rather are treated like how the west treats all non member countries without nukes- as peons to provide raw materials or slave labor in sweat shops.
That is a little off the mark as someone who has very real links/info to the region. I know to you its sounds like they are trying to make Turkey accept a destabilizing 'multi-cultural force' but how can the EU accept a Turkey that does not allow people to worship freely? The issue of course is Islam - why should the EU lower standards to let Turkey in? You want to join a club? Then meet the club's membership standards. By the way - if ever there was a nation that was multi-cultural it is Turkey. Homogenous Turkey or Turkish ethnicity is a modern Kemalist invention.
Please. They don't care about people not being allowed to worship freely in Turkey. They want Islam deracinated like Christianity is in Europe. They want Ramadam to be the same sort of contentless consumer mega holiday and orgy of spending that Christmas has become. And if the Turks don't show enough "tolerance" (ie- cultural nihilism) they don't get in the club but rather get the same "free trade" treatment the West doles out to the rest of the world. It isn't like being in the European Union is just another club. It means you are a "made nation" and can join in the plunder of the rest of the world. Turkey has a choice. Surrender to the same forces of "multi culturism" that the West has become and be "rich" or hold onto their culture and be a slightly better off exploited second world nation whose biggest export is young males to Europe to be coolies and peons.
Be that as it may and if I understand you correctly - it is the EU's club is it not? Why should Turkey be able to join the EU (and I am no fan of the EU) without meeting the EU's conditions? Turkey has NO RIGHT to join the EU - joining the EU is a condition of privilege not a god given right (if I can phrase it that way). Turkey does not like the membership conditions - then they should not join.
I am not arguing right of the club to set their rules. But when the club is a club of criminal pirate nations that ask you to shed your identity in order to stop being abused by this club and enjoy its benefits- that is a different dynamic. Membership in this club derives benefits that are NOT available elsewhere. You asked if Moslem nations are being pressured to deracinate themselves. Well- the only one the West would even consider letting in their little sphere of prosperity that rests almost entirely now on military force and bullyism is being made to make themselves into the image of the West- essentially godless with religion as a stage prop. They are being asked to "multi culturize" like the poor exploited Christian nations you think are being targeted because they are Greek Orthodox or whatnot. Still - Turkey at least being considered while pressured to dump their culture is better than being any other Moslem country which is subject to all manner of ill treatment at the hands of the west- up to and including decimation if not genocide. I imagine many Iraqis would give their right arms to be Christians in Bosnia or Syria right now or a Serb living in a comparitively peaceful Kosovo refugee camp outside Belgrade.
Maybe it does. So why should Turkey get to join this club as is? Again, I know this sounds like it but it I am not making a pro EU position - EU's club - EU's rule. I am sure forcing the Mormons of Utah to drop polygamy, a central tenet of their faith sucked for the Morman faithful as well but that was one of the rules the USA had set for membership into its Union. I don't think that is the best comparison but it fits best. I can't be upset that Turkey is told that for her to join the EU she has to accept what you feel are horrible EU values.
You are not following me. The EU and The United States represent a bloc of explotative nations - with the EU pretty much allowing the US to be the muscle while lamely and weakly pretending to protest its military imperial adventures. Now you are either a member of this club or you are not and are a peon nation (with a few middling exceptions like Russia and China) that is taken advantage of by this gang of nations. It's "Rules" are the only ones in town. It is the only club. You know- Europe at one time used to live by the principles that what your culture was in your country- was your business and it didn't preclude good relations and free and fair trade. That isn't the case today with Europe and the US which dictate internal policies of countries in order to not be treated like a shitbird country. Indeed- they demand that all countries make themselves in their image or else face at best- indifferent exploitation under the guise of "Free trade" (which is Orwellian named as it is anything but) or varying degrees of hostility from economic warfare to clandestine meddaling for "Regime change" to outright military attack and occupation. Now- you can pretend their is "choice" in there, but accepting my characterization of the EU - there isn't.
It is sad to say that Turkey is so shit addled a country that joining a shitty group like the EU is probably an improvement for those barbarians while for a country like Ukraine it would destroy their national ethnic character.
Oh- I forgot- you are Turk hater and Greek uber nationalist. How sad. Everyone has their little "ism" when you come down to it- with their moron simplifications. Most people need them to give themselves some sort of direction in life rather than themselves. Herd instinct.
I would not put it that way. But I don't see why I should respect Turkey when it is a country that lives along the lines what you claim the reichwingers crave minus the religious zeal. Worship of the military, laws against violating national honor, etc. Turkey is a primo example of a statist state. So I may be a Turk hater or not but if you claim to stand for what you stand how can you be anything but a Turk hater? And note being a Turk hater does not mean I want the USA to invade Turkey. Not fund those barbarians with my tax money? Hell yes - invade? No. I was no fan of Saddam either but do you see me cheering his downfall?
Because I don't hate Turks because of their government. Let's leave it alone- you are pretty irrational and stupid when it comes to this topic. Turks suck- I know- blah blah. Russia rules. Ukraine is awesome. whatever.
On a personal level, when I visited Istanbul, I thought it was a slice of Heaven - so much history and the Turks rocked, far more open and friendly to Westerners than EU Greece and its heralded islands ( tourist traps many of them that offset their physical beauty). However, this was just an aside - I think I jumbled the ship that sank off the Greek islands with this thread about - oops, I forget - it's Friday night! hey and we're still alive despite the red terror high alert - pass the wine, we may not live to see tomorrow according to Comrade Jerkoff...
I really have no personal experience with Turks or Greeks for that matter. I am sure there are great things about each country and things that suck about them. I am not trying to say I am some PC guy who goes around smelling out "Racists". But I don't- by any means believe my shit don't stink and that any group of people are collectively evil or the culture totally worthless. I may not like certain cultures. I may even think them damn weird. But I am not going to "hate" them. And I especially am not going to hate anyone based on some petty wars or policies of past governments that cabals of statists carried out. I don't hate English people for the past acts of cabals of statists against Ireland. I further don't hate them because I don't even live there- I live 3000 miles away from that country and have even less of real reason to "hate" an Englishman. I find it beyond moronic to bump into these uber Irish nationalists whose families have been in this country for 4 generations- going off about the evil Enlgish and whining about shit 150 years old. And the only thing "Irish" about these clowns is usually a cladaugh ring and they get stupid drunk on St Patty's day wearing a green turtle neck. Its embarassing. It gets even more embarassing when they bump into an Irishman from Ireland and they assume that they have the same hangups about Enlgand-- Usually they get stares like "What the fuck are you talking about?"
You mistake my aversion for culture with a hatred of people on a racial or ethnic level. Turkey's culture emerged from the Asiatic steppes - it is a culture which wwill have the man welcome you to his tent and treat you like family but when he sees you a few weeks later while he and his clansmen are raiding will cut your head off and make a drinking cup of it.
I hope you didn't get to close to the apes when studying them in their tents. Remember what happened to Dian Fossey.
I had to look up who Dian Fossey was so I don't get the allusion.
Anyone who talks about turks drinking blood from skulls wouldn't.
Whole-page picture from the biggest American weekly LIFE Magazine. This "Picture of the Week" shows a beautiful blonde, 20 year old Natalie Nickerson from Phoenix, Arizona. She sits by her desk with pen in hand, dreamingly contemplating the skull of a killed Japanese that was sent to her by her American Navy lieutenant boyfriend. The text reads: "Arizona war worker writes her Navy boyfriend a thank-you note for the Jap skull he sent her. When he said goodby two years ago to Natalie Nickerson, 20 a war worker of Phoenix, Ariz., a big, handsome Navy lieutenant promised her a Jap. Last week Natalie received a human skull, autographed by her lieutenant and 13 friends, and inscribed: "This is a good Jap - a dead one picked up on the New Guinea beach." Natalie, surprised at the gift, named it Tojo. The armed forces disapprove strongly of this sort of thing." United States: "We boiled the flesh off enemy skulls" "Japanese skulls were much-envied trophies among U.S. Marines in the Pacific theater during World War II. The practice of collecting them apparently began after the bloody conflict on Guadalcanal, when the troops set up the skulls as ornaments or totems atop poles as a type of warning. The Marines boiled the skulls and then used lye to remove any residual flesh so they would be suitable as souvenirs. U.S. sailors cleaned their trophy skulls by putting them in nets and dragging them behind their vessels. Winfield Townley Scott wrote a wartime poem, 'The U.S. Sailor with the Japanese Skull" that detailed the entire technique of preserving the headskull as a souvenir. In 1943 Life magazine published the picture of a U.S. sailor's girlfriend contemplating a Japanese skull sent to her as a gift - with a note written on the top of the skull. Referring to this practice, Edward L. Jones, a U.S. war correspondent in the Pacific wrote in the February 1946 Atlantic Magazine, "We boiled the flesh off enemy skulls to make table ornaments for sweethearts, or carved their bones into letter-openers." On occasion, these "Japanese trophy skulls" have confused police when they have turned up during murder investigations. It has been reported that when the remains of Japanese soldiers were repatriated from the Mariana Islands in 1984, sixty percent were missing their skulls."
Greeks agree with you that Turks and Americans are barbarians. One and the same in their barbarities.
#74. To: Destro (#73)
Sigh- ok- whatever.
Hmmm....Are the Greeks above such barbarities? I wonder... From this website: "When will the Greek State apologize to the Macedonian people for its 1912- 1913 genocide in Northern Greece?" "Ethnic cleansing" may be a modern term but its meaning is well understood by the Macedonian people living in northern Greece. Ever since Greece took possession of Macedonia, in the early 20th century, Macedonian people have experienced first hand ethnic cleansing. This series of articles will present evidence of atrocities perpetrated by the Greek State against the innocent Macedonian civilian populations prior to, during and after the Balkan wars.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestWhy is it they have these persecution fantasies?
#26. To: Horse (#21)
#28. To: Burkeman1 (#26)
There is no "Conspiracy" against Christians in this country.
#35. To: Destro (#28)
#38. To: Burkeman1 (#35)
(Edited)
I doubt anyone in Washington has given a fig of thought to the fate of Christian minorities in Iraq or anywhere else they might invade and conquoer. They don't care. Quite simply- no one is persecuting Christians for the sake of them being Christians.
#44. To: Destro (#38)
#45. To: Burkeman1 (#44)
And by the way- the most "European" of Moslem countries is being pressured to "multi culturize" as a pre-condition of getting into the European Union.
#46. To: Destro (#45)
#47. To: Burkeman1 (#46)
Please. They don't care about people not being allowed to worship freely in Turkey. They want Islam deracinated like Christianity is in Europe. They want Ramadam to be the same sort of contentless consumer mega holiday and orgy of spending that Christmas has become.
#49. To: Destro (#47)
#50. To: Burkeman1 (#49)
Membership in this club derives benefits that are NOT available elsewhere.
#51. To: Destro (#50)
#53. To: Burkeman1 (#51)
#55. To: Destro (#53)
#56. To: Burkeman1 (#55)
(Edited)
Oh- I forgot- you are Turk hater and Greek uber nationalist.
#57. To: Destro (#56)
#60. To: Burkeman1, Destro, robin (#57)
#61. To: scrapper2 (#60)
#63. To: Burkeman1, scrapper2 (#61)
I am not trying to say I am some PC guy who goes around smelling out "Racists".
#64. To: Destro (#63)
#66. To: Burkeman1 (#64)
#68. To: Destro (#66)
I don't get the allusion.
#70. To: Burkeman1 (#68)
Anyone who talks about turks drinking blood from skulls wouldn't.
Armenian heads as trophies photographed by a German Officer in Turkey.
#71. To: Destro (#70)
#73. To: Burkeman1, Arator (#71)
(Edited)
United States: "We boiled the flesh off enemy skulls" "Japanese skulls were much-envied trophies among U.S. Marines in the Pacific theater during World War II.
Replies to Comment # 73.
#75. To: Destro (#73)
End Trace Mode for Comment # 73.