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9/11
See other 9/11 Articles

Title: 9/11 facts on the Sudden Implosion of WTC Building 7 are inconsistent with official Muslim conspiracy scenario
Source: The Canadian
URL Source: http://www.agoracosmopolitan.com/ho ... rontpage/2007/04/03/01472.html
Published: Apr 7, 2007
Author: David R. Kimball
Post Date: 2007-04-07 14:36:13 by Eoghan
Keywords: None
Views: 690
Comments: 45

“It is natural for man to indulge in the illusions of hope. We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth … For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst, and to provide for it.” -- Patrick Henry

“The important thing is to never stop questioning.” -- Albert Einstein

Everyone remembers the Twin Towers exploding at 9:59AM and 10:28AM EDT on September 11, 2001. Comparatively few people can recall that there was a third massive skyscraper, also a part of the World Trade Center, which fell very rapidly to the ground on that day. This was World Trade Center Building 7.1

One reason that few remember WTC Building 7’s collapse is that after September 11th it has been treated, both in the media and in The 9/11 Commission Report, as if it didn’t happen.

“The total collapse of the third huge skyscraper late in the afternoon September 11th was reported as if it were an insignificant footnote... most people never saw video of Building 7’s collapse… Incredibly, it is virtually impossible to find any mention of Building 7 in newspapers, magazines, or broadcast media reports after September 11th.” 2

“The Commission avoids another embarrassing problem – explaining how WTC 7 could have collapsed, also virtually at free-fall speed – by simply not mentioning the collapse of this building.” 3

The collapse of Building 7 at 5:20PM EDT was in itself a major event; the sudden and unexplained fall to earth of a 47-story steel-framed skyscraper is certainly news. Why has there been almost no mention of this in the U.S. corporate mass-media, and why was there no mention of Building 7’s collapse in The 9/11 Commission Report? These are questions of great significance, and they cry out for answers. To be able to approach any kind of explanation, however, first some pertinent and verified facts of the Building 7 aspect of 9/11 need to be scrutinized.

The following eleven facts have been compiled from the research of reputable sources – those who have dared to question and have devoted innumerable hours into discovering what really happened on 9/11.

FACT 1: WTC Building 7 was one of the largest buildings in downtown Manhattan. It was 47 stories tall, about half the height of the Towers, and took up an entire city block. It was 300 feet from the closest Twin Tower (the North Tower, WTC 1), and was a steel-framed, concrete structure.4

FACT 2: WTC Building 7 – on its 23rd floor – housed an Emergency Command Center for the City of New York that Mayor Rudolph Giuliani had built in the mid-1990’s. On the morning of September 11th, Mayor Giuliani did not go “to his Command Center – with its clear view of the Twin Towers – but to a makeshift, street-level headquarters at 75 Barkley Street.” WTC 7 also held the offices of numerous government agencies, including the U.S. Department of Defense, the CIA, the Secret Service, the IRS, and the Security and Exchange Commission.5 Late 2001 was the time of “the height of the investigation into Enron, so the majority of Enron’s SEC filings were likely destroyed when World Trade Center 7 came down.”6

FACT 3: WTC Building 7 was not hit by airplane or significant debris on September 11th. It had been evacuated after the planes hit the towers. By the afternoon of September 11th, there were a few small fires of unknown origin evident in the building, and these small fires could be seen in only a few of the hundreds and hundreds of windows in the building.7

FACT 4: On 11 September 2001, at 5:20PM, EDT, World Trade Center Building 7 suddenly and rapidly collapsed. Beginning with the penthouse, all 47 stories of it imploded into its own footprint in less than seven seconds. Three different videos of Building 7’s vertical collapse – two from CBS video broadcasts, and one from an NBC news camera – can be seen online, LINK.

FACT 5: On 16 September , NASA flew an airplane over the World Trade Center site, recorded infrared radiation coming from the ground, and created a thermal map. The U.S. Geological Survey analyzed this data, and determined the actual temperature of the rubble. This map shows that five days after the collapse of Building 7, the surface temperature of a section of its rubble was 1,341º F.8 This high a temperature is indicative of the use of explosives.

“WTC 7’s rubble pile continued to smolder for months.”9

FACT 6: Fire Engineering magazine is the 125-year-old paper-of-record of the fire engineering community. Bill Manning, editor-in-chief, wrote an Editor’s Opinion in the January, 2002 edition. His editorial, $elling Out the Investigation, pointed out that destruction of evidence – the hurried removal of rubble which should be examined by investigators – is illegal. He also issued a “call to action”. To quote excerpts:

“For more than three months, structural steel from the World Trade Center has been and continues to be cut up and sold for scrap. Crucial evidence that could answer many questions … is on the slow boat to China …”

“I have combed through our national standard for fire investigation, NFPA 921, but nowhere in it does one find an exemption allowing the destruction of evidence for buildings over 10 stories tall.”

“Fire Engineering has good reason to believe that the ‘official investigation’ blessed by FEMA [Federal Emergency Management Agency] and run by the American Society of Civil Engineers is a half baked farce [emphasis mine] that may have already been commandeered by political forces whose primary interests, to put it mildly, lie far afield of full disclosure. Except for the marginal benefit obtained from a three-day, visual walk-through of evidence sites conducted by ASCE investigation committee members – described by one close source as a ‘tourist trip’ – no one’s checking evidence for anything.”

“The destruction and removal of evidence must stop immediately.”

“Firefighters, this is your call to action. …contact your representatives in Congress and officials in Washington and help us correct this problem immediately.” 10 11

FACT 7: In May of 2002, FEMA published their report #403 titled World Trade Center Building Performance Study. This report claims that the fires caused the building to collapse, but that the specifics of how this is supposed to have occurred “…remain unknown at this time.”12

FACT 8: The collapse of WTC Building 7 shows five characteristics of a controlled demolition:

It “dropped directly into its own footprint in a smooth, vertical motion”;

It “collapsed completely in less than seven seconds”;

“Dust streamed out of the upper floors of Building 7 early in its collapse”;

“WTC 7’s roof inverted toward its middle as the collapse progressed”; and

“WTC 7’s rubble was mostly confined to the block on which the building stood.”13

FACT 9: “Larry Silverstein is a rather large player within the realms of 21st Century real estate, finance, and politics.”14 He “…had taken out a long lease on the World Trade Center only six weeks before 9/11. In a PBS documentary entitled ‘America Rebuilds’, originally aired in September of 2002, Silverstein made the following statement about Building 7:

‘I remember getting a call from the, er, fire department commander, telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the fire, and I said, “We’ve had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it.” And they made that decision to pull, and we watched the building collapse.’” 15 16

FACT 10: “It is inconceivable that anyone could be running around placing explosives in exactly the right places all within seven hours. In fact, implosions take a minimum of two weeks and up to two months to plan and place the charges. The fire department of New York does not even train their personnel to do controlled demolition. They are done by highly skilled experienced specialists who plan and test far ahead.”17

FACT 11: “… [George W.] Bush’s brother, Marvin Bush, and his cousin, Wirt Walker III, were principles in the company [Stratesec, formerly named Securacom] that was in charge of security for the World Trade Center, with Walker being the CEO from 1999 until January 2002.”18

In summation: A major aspect of 9/11 has been excluded from the entire U.S. media after September 11th, and was also omitted from The 9/11 Commission Report. This was the sudden fall to earth, on September 11th, 2001, of World Trade Center Building 7. Not hit by airplane or significant debris, 300 feet from the closest Twin Tower, and with just a few small fires burning within it, at 5:20PM EDT this massive concrete and steel-framed 47-story skyscraper imploded into its own footprint in less than seven seconds. Its rapid implosion had all of the characteristics of a controlled demolition, and the World Trade Center leaseholder, Larry Silverstein, stated in so many words that the building had been collapsed by demolition. It takes weeks, if not months, to prepare the demolition of a building as large as WTC 7; this implosion could not have been engineered and implemented in seven chaotic hours on September 11th. Therefore, a question emerges:

Who had the means and expertise to engineer such a demolition and acquire needed materiel, and who had access to WTC Building 7 PRIOR TO September 11, 2001 in order to place the explosives?

An inquiry into the answer to this question might be a good place to begin a search for the real perpetrators of 9/11. Do we, the citizens of the United States, have the courage and honesty necessary to initiate an actual investigation, or will we continue living a Lie – and reap the consequences?

Footnotes

1 Jim Hoffman, 2 Jim Hoffman, 3 David Ray Griffin, The 9/11 Commission Report – Omissions and Distortions (Olive Branch Press, 2005), 28 4 Don Paul and Jim Hoffman, Waking Up From Our Nightmare (Irresistible/Revolutionary, 2004), 5-20 5 Don Paul and Jim Hoffman, 18 6 Barry Zwicker, The 9/11 News Special You Never Saw, Global Outlook magazine (Issue 9, Fall/Winter 2005), 19 7 Eric Hufschmid, Painful Questions – An Analysis of the September 11th Attack (Endpoint Software, 2002), 62-65 8 Eric Hufschmid, 69-70 9 Don Paul and Jim Hoffman, 10 10 Eric Hufschmid, 5-6 11 Fire Engineering magazine, January 2002 12 Eric Hufschmid, 7-8 13Don Paul and Jim Hoffman, 8-10 14 Don Paul and Jim Hoffman, 20 15 David Ray Griffin, 28 16 For video footage of Silverstein’s statement, see Eric Hufschmid’s video Painful Deceptions, edited and narrated by http://ReOpen911.org http://(911busters.com, http://www.EricHufschmid.net). 17 Narration from Eric Hufschmid’s video Painful Deceptions, edited and narrated by http://ReOpen911.org 18 David Ray Griffin, 31-32

Make comments about this article in The Canadian Blog.


Poster Comment:

The Canadian just recently began printing articles questioning the ZOG's story...

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#6. To: lodwick (#5)

Wouldn't that be nice, or CSPAN. I'll keep my eye out.

"The line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes nor between parties either — but right through the human heart." — Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

robin  posted on  2007-04-07   15:27:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Eoghan (#0)

very excellent article.

Galatians 3:29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Red Jones  posted on  2007-04-07   15:57:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Red Jones, Eoghan (#7)

very excellent article.

Don't worry, BAC will "explain" how every point made is false.

Shocking! Israel Did 911. The Irrefutable Evidence!

"You can not save the Constitution by destroying it."

Itisa1mosttoolate  posted on  2007-04-07   16:19:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Itisa1mosttoolate, BeAChooser, SkyDrifter (#8)

as I've explained before - the only thing that BAC can competently explain is how to operate Jeff Gannon's equipment. he is a TREASONOUS QUEER!

Galatians 3:29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Red Jones  posted on  2007-04-07   16:23:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Eoghan, ALL (#0)

FACT 3: WTC Building 7 was not hit by airplane or significant debris on September 11th.

This is false. WTC 7 was indeed hit by significant debris ... debris that gouged holes in the structure that were many, many stories high according to firemen and which started significant fires that basically went unfought for hours and hours.

And here's a FACT that was selectively left off your list. Firemen and others say the structure began to lean long before the collapse and they knew the structure was going to collapse.

You'd be better off reading the following than the nonsense in this thread's article:

http://www.debunking911.com/WTC7.htm

http://www.911myths.com/WTC7_Lies.pdf

http://www.911myths.com/html/wtc7_fire.html

http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2006/06/wtc-7.html

FACT 5: On 16 September , NASA flew an airplane over the World Trade Center site, recorded infrared radiation coming from the ground, and created a thermal map. The U.S. Geological Survey analyzed this data, and determined the actual temperature of the rubble. This map shows that five days after the collapse of Building 7, the surface temperature of a section of its rubble was 1,341º F.8 This high a temperature is indicative of the use of explosives.

No, it's indicative of a hot fire.

http://911myths.com/html/wtc_molten_steel.html

FACT 6: Fire Engineering magazine is the 125-year-old paper-of-record of the fire engineering community. Bill Manning, editor-in-chief, wrote an Editor’s Opinion in the January, 2002 edition. His editorial, $elling Out the Investigation, pointed out that destruction of evidence – the hurried removal of rubble which should be examined by investigators – is illegal. He also issued a “call to action”.

FACT. Bill Manning appears to be satisfied with the investigation that was eventually done. He is not on record ANYWHERE claiming that explosives brought down the WTC structures and in fact spoke at a 2005 dinner for an award commemorating one of the firemen who was killed at the WTC on 9/11 and said NOTHING about bombs or being unhappy with the investigation. His concern is that faulty tower construction, not bombs, was responsible.

FACT 8: The collapse of WTC Building 7 shows five characteristics of a controlled demolition:

FACT: Only ONE demolition expert in the world claims WTC 7 is a controlled demolition and his claim is that Silverstein rigged the building to bring it down AFTER the WTC towers collapsed to avoid having to repair it. In other words, he does not allege a PRE-PLANNED demolition. Numerous other demolition experts say that the collapse of the WTC buildings (including WTC 7) do NOT have the characteristics of controlled demolitions.

FACT 10: “It is inconceivable that anyone could be running around placing explosives in exactly the right places all within seven hours.

Yet, the only demolition expert to come forward and support the notion that WTC7 was a controlled demolition insisted exactly that. And he insisted that WTC 1 and WTC 2 were NOT controlled demolitions because according to him it would take a year to prep them and someone would have noticed.

When are you folks going to give this nonsense up? It's preventing the legitimate questions of 9/11 from being addressed ... from being taken seriously.

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-04-07   17:50:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: BeAChooser (#10)

Do you ever use anything besides NewsMax and the sort of kook blogs you quote above to support your silly bullshit?

The idiotic nature of your sources is one of the reasons that you are such a miserable failure on all the sites that you have been booted off of.

But I guess it's sort of hard to find Ron Brown kookery in respected publications.

.

...  posted on  2007-04-07   17:55:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: BeAChooser (#10)

It's preventing the legitimate questions of 9/11 from being addressed ...

Yep, I agree...the public conscience hasn't yet hit critical mass to address our Jewish Question.

“Yes, but is this good for Jews?"

Eoghan  posted on  2007-04-07   17:56:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: BeAChooser (#10)

Why don't you post your NewsMax article about the single, rusted binary shell that got found several years into the war. The LP people found that to be a real thigh slapper.

.

...  posted on  2007-04-07   17:59:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: BeAChooser, ALL (#10)

When are you folks going to give this nonsense up? It's preventing the legitimate questions of 9/11 from being addressed ... from being taken seriously.

When are you queer bushbot folks going to give this nonsense up? It's preventing the legitimate truth from being found out. Give us the names of the firemen who said the building was going to collapse anyway. Show us a legitimate first party document from the firemen. Total rubish and bullshit on your part asshole.

Building seven wasn't wired up for a controlled demolition in seven hours asswipe. It was wired up for a controlled demolition during the same period of days and time as the two WTC towers. I'm surprised that even you and your small mind couldn't figure that out. Your remark about it would have to be wired up between the twin towers collapse or about seven hours is indicative of a very small IQ.

Now go back over to freakerville and bother us no more with your queer logic. Besides, you will be among your queer friends and the total moron bugwit rimjob.

.....now git dickweed.

LACUMO  posted on  2007-04-07   19:35:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: robin (#1)

San Diego Citizen's Grand Jury to Investigate 9/11 April 14, SDSU

Congratulations to Sofia and crew, part 1 of "9/11 Mysteries" has been accepted for Liege, Belgium's International Film Festival.

I got an invitation to 'testify' at the upcoming San Diego "Grand Jury." Unfortunately, I couldn't go.


SKYDRIFTER  posted on  2007-04-07   20:21:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: SKYDRIFTER (#15)

Registering to vote is largely a scam to extract parking fees from the rurals. Jury trials my ass...

"People like truth, it gives us a fucking benchmark." - dakmar

Dakmar  posted on  2007-04-07   20:24:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: beachooser (#10)

Bullshit!

BAC, there's nothing that you can't twist - but lies, themselves.


SKYDRIFTER  posted on  2007-04-07   20:31:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: LACUMO, ALL (#14)

Give us the names of the firemen who said the building was going to collapse anyway.

Here's one. His name was Hayden. Deputy Chief Peter Hayden.

http://www.firehouse.com/terrorist/911/magazine/gz/hayden.html "By now, this is going on into the afternoon, and we were concerned about additional collapse, not only of the Marriott, because there was a good portion of the Marriott still standing, but also we were pretty sure that 7 World Trade Center would collapse. Early on, we saw a bulge in the southwest corner between floors 10 and 13, and we had put a transit on that and we were pretty sure she was going to collapse. You actually could see there was a visible bulge, it ran up about three floors."

Building seven wasn't wired up for a controlled demolition in seven hours asswipe.

Then you don't have a single demolition expert you can claim that thinks explosives were used to bring down WTC buildings.

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-04-07   22:58:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: BeAChooser (#18)

If I click the link and get a dead webpage, may I assume you made up the quote upported by the link out of thin air?

Recall that you've already been busted twice tonight for posting fabricated quotes supported by fake links.

.

...  posted on  2007-04-07   23:00:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: BeAChooser (#18)

shalom fish breath

i saw you fake links. you did this to me too.

can you lie to other jews that way you lie here? or do you have special rules for dealing with the goys?

"NO ONE has quoted the Constitution or US law as to the form a Declaration of War must take" -- Fish Breath's Famous Red Herring

Morgana le Fay  posted on  2007-04-07   23:05:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: ..., nolu_chan, ALL (#19)

If I click the link and get a dead webpage, may I assume you made up the quote supported by the link out of thin air?

No, what we can then be sure of is that you don't know how to use a browser.

Recall that you've already been busted twice tonight for posting fabricated quotes supported by fake links.

I recall no such thing.

For example, you claim this is fabricated quote:

"The most interesting discovery has been a 152mm binary Sarin artillery projectile—containing a 40 percent concentration of Sarin—which insurgents attempted to use as an Improvised Explosive Device (IED). The existence of this binary weapon not only raises questions about the number of viable chemical weapons remaining in Iraq and raises the possibility that a larger number of binary, long-lasting chemical weapons still exist."

But if you go to post #94 of this 4um thread, you will nolu_chan posted this link

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/report/2004/isg-final-report/isg-final-report_vol3_cw-anx-f.htm

and if you visit it you'll find that exact quote. Now this has already been pointed out to you on other threads yet you continue this rather sad and pathetic tactic.

Like I said ... you need a new comedy routine. This one is only destroying your credibility ... and tarnishing the image of this forum.

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-04-07   23:26:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: BeAChooser (#18)

Then you don't have a single demolition expert you can claim that thinks explosives were used to bring down WTC buildings.

No I don't offhand. But right on live yelevision there were several firefighters who heard the boom,boom,boom,boom as the towers and building 7 collapsed in its own footprint.

There were a few fireighters that were asked to make an appearance on television on what they experienced on 9-11. They were told they were not allowed to make that/ appearance and were put on administrative leave immediately.

Look at the videos that are out there with irrefutable proof there were hijinks surrounding everything on 9-11. Try In Plane Sight and Loose Change for starters.

The turning point for me was almost immediate. We saw the disasters live on television, but the clean up was done so fast and almost in secret. Guess it would be more than the American public would be able to stomach-translation, there were things to hide, stories to get straight.

Funny how one of the bushcrime members, one of g.h.w.bush's son's was in charge of security. That says a mountain in and of itself. Then that phoney piece of shit printed by poplar mechanics had a relative of chernoff's writing the 'offical' story on how the heat from the jet fuel fire was the culprit that caused the colapse. My sister's cat's ass it was! Only a dope would believe that and not refute the temperature of that burning jet fuel.

Ewe can believe what you want and continue to believe the bushite shit that was handed out as the official cause of the colapse. Just think about how many lies the bush crime family has handed out in the 9-11 attack and the lies they handed out to get us into the war with Iraq. One freaking lie after another and they seem to tell a new lie everyday.

Ewe must be pretty high up the ladder to be willing to keep spewing the bullshit that you do in your replies. You had better be careful because the whole bushkie clan is going to go to Hell someday and all those who are devout followers. Now that fire will definitely be hot enough to melt those heavy steel beams. Hope ewe will like the heat and it won't cost you a dime.

LACUMO  posted on  2007-04-07   23:51:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: BeAChooser (#10)

FACT: Only ONE demolition expert in the world claims WTC 7 is a controlled demolition and his claim is that Silverstein rigged the building to bring it down AFTER the WTC towers collapsed to avoid having to repair it.

Yet, the only demolition expert to come forward and support the notion that WTC7 was a controlled demolition insisted exactly that.

Sources please.


A new truth movement friendly digg type site: Zlonk it!

Critter  posted on  2007-04-08   13:56:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Critter (#23)

Be sure and check the links he gives you and make sure they work, and make sure that the quote is actually there. He handed me phoney links at least two times yesterday.

.

...  posted on  2007-04-08   14:03:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: LACUMO (#22)

Ewe

i got that. :P

christine  posted on  2007-04-08   14:07:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: LACUMO, ALL (#22)

"Then you don't have a single demolition expert you can claim that thinks explosives were used to bring down WTC buildings."

No I don't offhand.

Not on in any hand.

But right on live yelevision there were several firefighters who heard the boom,boom,boom,boom

What sound would you expect when a huge mass drops a story on to an intact floor, causes that to fail, then the mass (now a little bigger) drops a story on to the next intact floor, causes that to fail, then the mass (even bigger now) drops a story on to the next intact floor, causes it to fail, then the mass (bigger still) drops a story ... etc?

There were a few fireighters that were asked to make an appearance on television on what they experienced on 9-11. They were told they were not allowed to make that/ appearance and were put on administrative leave immediately.

Your source for this claim? Because I bet the details are not what you want folks to believe.

Try In Plane Sight and Loose Change for starters.

Here's my response to those promoting videos like Loose Change:

Watch the ScrewLooseChange video. It rips the Loose Change video apart frame by frame:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3214024953129565561

Read a guide to the ScrewLooseChange video. It does the same thing.
http://www.loosechangeguide.com/LooseChangeGuide.html

Visit this great blog related to the ScrewLooseChange video:
http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/

Or visit this related discussion forum:
http://screwloosechange.xbehome.com/

And by all means check out this great data:
http://lol.chroniclesofgaras.com/sources.html

Hate to tell you, LACUMO, but the videos you name are just filled with LIES. You've been deceived.

on how the heat from the jet fuel fire was the culprit that caused the colapse. My sister's cat's ass it was! Only a dope would believe that and not refute the temperature of that burning jet fuel.

You have it wrong. NIST doesn't say the heat from jet fuel is what collapsed the towers. A lot of things were burning in those towers. Jet fuel just initiated the fires. Have you ever read this?

http://911myths.com/html/wtc_molten_steel.html

I linked it above. Did you bother to even look at it or is your mind already made up based on the lies you were told in videos like Loose Change? Are you open minded or not?

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-04-08   17:42:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Critter, Arator, Eoghan, ALL (#23)

The article Eoghan posted - FACT: Only ONE demolition expert in the world claims WTC 7 is a controlled demolition and his claim is that Silverstein rigged the building to bring it down AFTER the WTC towers collapsed to avoid having to repair it.

BAC - "Yet, the only demolition expert to come forward and support the notion that WTC7 was a controlled demolition insisted exactly that."

Sources please.

Did you miss my post to Arator?

Here, let me repeat it:

*************

http://freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=49544&SC=42&EC=81#C63

"Actually, he did not say WTC could not be brought down by fire. And if you listen closely to what he actually did say, he does not think WTC 7 was a PRE-PLANNED demolition. His theory is that Silverstein decided AFTER the collapse of the WTC towers to demolish WTC 7 rather than try to repair it"

That is a f*cking lie. No demolitions expert would say that they decided and wired WTC 7 to implode in the chaotic hours after the destruction of Towers 1 and 2. They wouldn't say it because even non-demolition experts know that such a feat is impossible.

You didn't listen to Jowenko's video did you, Arator.

To prove you are wrong, here's the video of Jowenko talking. Listen carefully.

http://911blogger.com/node/3231

Let me quote him from Part 1 of the video:

---------------------

Jowenko - Are you sure it was the 11th? That can't be.

Interviewer (conspiracy type) - Seven hours after the World Trade Center came down.

Jowenko - Then they worked hard. I don't know the construction of the building but then they very rigorously, very quickly placed charges.

--------------------

At the end of part 1, he talks about how fast the charges could be laid and the building taken down. He never once talks about the charges being place BEFORE the event. Sorry Arator but he's clearly saying he thinks they placed the charges AFTER the WTC Towers collapsed (and mind you, this is consistent with the fact that he does NOT think the WTC towers were controlled demolitions).

As further proof, in part 2 of the video, while talking about the damage to WTC 7 from falling debris, Jowenko says the following:

----------------------

Jowenko - It strikes me that, that could be a reason for Silverstone or stein ... The owner. The owner of the building that he says: look, this will cost me a lot of pennies and what do I get back, still the same old building. And on such a moment I think that Giuliani easily would give a license to demolish, here you are if you want to get rid of it, asap.

----------------------

Do you have problems understanding what he just said, Arator. Or did you not view the video? He clearly said the reason they decided to demolish WTC7 was it was damaged and would cost a lot to repair. That's an AFTER THE FACT decision. Not PRE-PLANNED.

And in part 3 of the video there is this exchange, again after a discussion of the damage done to WTC 7 by falling debris and fire:

--------------------

Jowenko - Yes, then Silverstein must say bring it down because once there is fire, if it became hot you have to replace your steel. Do you know what it cost if you have to replace the bottom columns and jack up the rest? That will not be cheap for a building with 47 floors. Then you say: away with it. And if there is a company, you so much million, we do it for 1 million. That's how it goes. Business goes very fast in such a situation. And they do it.

--------------------

Again, what he says is very clear and exactly what I said he said. I'm surprised you missed it, Arator, if you actually did listen to what Jowenko said.

Because of the shamelessness of your transparent lie about Jowenko, I now wash my hands of you, BAC. If chrissy wants to ban your sorry ass, I won't stand in her way. You have ZERO integrity, ZERO respect for truth and, therefore, ZERO value to this forum (or to this life in general, for that matter). Good riddance to bad rubbish, I say.

To bad the facts don't back you up, Arator. You should be embarrassed.

You are a lost soul, BAC. Adrift on an ocean of lies and black propaganda.

I think I've proven here who is the one adrift in a sea of lies and propaganda.

***************

Satisfied, Critter?

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-04-08   17:51:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: BeAChooser (#26)

Hate to tell you, LACUMO, but the videos you name are just filled with LIES. You've been deceived.

Are the links above bullshit links that go to magazine subscription site or perhaps defunct government agency pages? Or perhaps sites that you have created yourself?

Recall that you got busted twice yesterday for putting up fake quotes supported by bogus links.

I am just wondering if you are up to the same slimey tricks again today.

.

...  posted on  2007-04-08   17:52:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: BeAChooser (#26)

I linked it above. Did you bother to even look at it or is your mind already made up based on the lies you were told in videos like Loose Change? Are you open minded or not?

Why should they look?

You have been busted repeatedly for putting up fake links. You have put up bogus quotes and cited magazine subscription sites and defunct government agency pages to support them.

Given your record of PROVEN dishonesty, why should anyone believe you or one of he moonbat sources you (make up) cite?

.

...  posted on  2007-04-08   17:55:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: BeAChooser, Christine (#27)

Yesterday, on at lease two occasions, you posted fake quotes to support your bullshit and you posted non-functioning links to support your fake quotes.

You got busted for this.

You are now trying to pretend that this did not happen.

You owe this entire forum an apology.

.

...  posted on  2007-04-08   17:56:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: BeAChooser (#26)

Hate to tell you, LACUMO, but the videos you name are just filled with LIES. You've been deceived.

Ewe are a stupid piece of shit. I can smell ewe from here! More of the idiotic lies so indicative of the lying traitoristic crap.

Who told ewe this bullshit, neal bush? I guess the neo-conservative news media's live cameras showed nothing but lies.

Ewe are so pathetic. I bet you get your jollies by having sex with medved and many other of the pubbie faggots. Funny I can't think of anything worse to call ewe because it would be an insult to the words.

Oops! Ewe forgot to mention in Plane Sight. Guess ewe will spew more lies trying to debunk the truth.

LACUMO  posted on  2007-04-08   18:54:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: beachooser, Critter, Minerva, Christine, Brian S, Honway, Robin, Aristeides, Red Jones, Diana, Kamala, All (#27)

I think I've proven here who is the one adrift in a sea of lies and propaganda.

BAC, You 'think' badly. On occasion you actually post facts as God would agree upon. But 98+ percent of the time, you are the epitome of deceit in any and every possible fashion.

BAC, you're a scumbag. You add nothing significant to this forum. You're a slimy piece of shit, on your best day.

If Goldi didn't send you over here, you'd better get ready to suck her ass, or retire from the Internet.

You are a sea of lies and propaganda.


SKYDRIFTER  posted on  2007-04-08   19:32:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: BeAChooser (#27)

Satisfied, Critter?

No. You proved again that you're a liar.

He said, "Are you sure this happened on the 11th? It can't be!"

He was shocked that it happened on the 11th and was at a loss to explain it.


A new truth movement friendly digg type site: Zlonk it!

Critter  posted on  2007-04-08   21:06:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: Critter, Arator, LACUMO, ..., SKYDRIFTER (#33)

in part 2, Jowenko clearly states that he thinks the building has been imploded and is incredulous that the FEMA report never mentions explosives and blames the collapse on a few fires but never explains how that's possible.

"I think this is a building that has obviously been imploded. What I sometimes think has it maybe to do with insurance." ~Jowenko

again, chooser is parsing/obfuscating/lying. he's evil.

christine  posted on  2007-04-08   21:17:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: BeAChooser, ALL (#27) (Edited)

You ewe are a lost soul, BAC. Adrift on an ocean of lies and black propaganda.

think I've proven here who is the one adrift in a sea of lies and propaganda.

Let's forget the fires and collapses for a minute. I wonder how long it took bush , the dick cheney, to figure out Osamma Bin Lauden was the mastermind behind 9-11? Over 3,000 people lost their lives on this inside job and they put forth the propaganda about who was behind 9-11.

The bush crime family started two (2) wars over this on a pack of lies and they continue to lie every day and vowed to get Osamma (another lie) for this dastardly deed. The next day he lets the entire Bin Laden family fly out of the country when ALL flights were grounded.Did ewe know the Bin Lauden family tied up all their loose ends on 9-10 2001, even cancelling their website? They were rushed out of the country before they could be questioned. Can ewe explain this for us without lying?

It has been almost 6 years since 9-11 and many of bushkieites sorrounding the liar-in-chief have publicly stated Osamma isn't worth going after because if we captured him, put him on trial, he would become a martyr for the Islamic world. According to them, he was behnd 9-11. All this bullshit and propaganda. If he was behind even one American life he should be tracked down to the far corners of the earth, brought back and put on trial, but there were over 3,000 who died that day.

My guess is they don't want him here because of what he could tell on the bushes. Saddam Hussein could have told a lot too. That is why we never brought him back to the U.S. to be tried. Funny how our FBI will spend millions to capture a killer who only killed one person or a few. Presumeably Ossama was behind the taking of over 3,000 lives. Can ewe explain this to the families of the victims and to the American people without lying?

Come on professor, enlighten us. Put your propaganda machine in high gear and dazzle us with your brilliance instead of trying to baffle us with bullshit. Many of us know that 9-11= inside job. Apparently ewe don't or wouldn't admit it if ewe did. I'm right, aren't I?

LACUMO  posted on  2007-04-08   22:10:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: christine (#34)

Definitely imploded just like the twin towers.

LACUMO  posted on  2007-04-08   23:19:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: LACUMO (#36)

have you seen Sofia's 911 Mysteries: Demolitions? i think it's the best of all the 911 films.

christine  posted on  2007-04-08   23:29:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: LACUMO, ALL (#31)

Ewe forgot to mention in Plane Sight. Guess ewe will spew more lies trying to debunk the truth.

ROTFLOL! Even the conspiracy sites think "In Plane Sight" is disinformation.

http://911review.com/disinfo/videos.html "Following the first 9/11 International Inquiry in San Francisco in 2004, a new video packaged as a sensational exposé of evidence that the 9/11 attack was an inside job burst on the scene. In Plane Site, a production of The Power Hour, features Dave Von Kleist sitting in front of a wall of computer monitors and pretending to expose shocking anomalies in footage from the day of the attack. The vast majority of Von Kleist's claims are nonsensical, debunked in the Parade of Errors section."

http://www.flashclub.ch/archives/000062.php "'In Plane Site' mixes facts with allegations that are so easily disproven that a deliberate misrepresentation by the filmmaker must be assumed (for an example see the plume of smoke story in the debunking video below). This movie is a total disinformation success, since it both provides the grounds for easy dismissal and ridicule of 9/11 researchers in general and misdirects attention away from legitimate questions surrounding the events of 9/11."

http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=consp_911&Number=293277436 "So, I guess this is Dave admitting to the whole world that he and his friends are false opposition and that their obfuscation, distraction, distortion and cover-up of 9/11 information indicates their possible involvement and even guilt, in the events of 9/11."

http://www.oilempire.us/inplanesite.html "In Plane Site - a film that promote a real conclusion (9/11 was an inside job) with phony evidence (pods, dust clouds, flashes, no planes, no windows and other hoaxes)"

You will not find the truth, LACUMO, on a foundation of lies.

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-04-08   23:47:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: christine, arator, critter, all (#34)

in part 2, Jowenko clearly states that he thinks the building has been imploded

I never said he didn't state that. The issue is whether the demolition of WTC7 was a pre-planned event, like you folks think, or something the owner decided to do AFTER it was damaged by the collapse of the towers. Jowenko is clearly in the later camp base on the portions of the video that I quoted.

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-04-08   23:51:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: BeAChooser (#39)

I never said he didn't state that.

shalom fish breath

we just assumed that if you were talking to us goys, you were lying.

"NO ONE has quoted the Constitution or US law as to the form a Declaration of War must take" -- Fish Breath's Famous Red Herring

Morgana le Fay  posted on  2007-04-08   23:53:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: LACUMO, ALL (#35)

Let's forget the fires and collapses for a minute.

No, I'm not going to forget those things as long as you folks post articles and videos filled with misinformation and outright lies in order to claim nonsense like bombs/missiles/energy beams/nukes are what brought down the WTC towers and damaged the Pentagon. As long as you do that, you will only discredit any effort to discuss the rest of the questions (some legitimate) that surround 9/11. You will not find the truth on a foundation of misinformation.

The next day he lets the entire Bin Laden family fly out of the country when ALL flights were grounded. ... snip ... They were rushed out of the country before they could be questioned.

This is utterly false. Just more disinformation.

**************

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/flights.asp

Flights of Fancy

Claim: Secret flights whisked bin Laden family members and Saudi nationals out of the U.S. immediately after September 11 while a general ban on air travel was still in effect, and before the FBI had any opportunity to question any of the passengers.

Status: False.

Origins: In the wake of the September 11 terrorist attacks on America, the Federal Aviation Administration immediately ordered all flights in the United States grounded, and that ban stayed in effect until September 13. (Even then, for that first day commercial carriers were mostly either completing the interrupted flights of September 11 or repositioning empty aircraft in anticipation of the resumption of full service. New passenger flights did not generally resume until the 14th.) During that two-day period of full lock-down, only the military and specially FAA-authorized flights that delivered life-saving medical necessities were in the air. The enforcement of the empty skies directive was so stringent that even after the United Network for Organ Sharing sought and gained FAA clearance to use charter aircraft on September 12 to effect time-critical deliveries of organs for transplant, one of its flights carrying a human heart was forced to the ground in Bellingham, Washington, 80 miles short of its Seattle destination, by two Navy F/A-18 fighters. (The organ completed its journey after being transferred to a helicopter.)

The claim that bin Laden family members (and other Saudis) were allowed to secretly fly out of the U.S. and back to Saudi Arabia while a government-imposed ban on air travel was in effect, all without any intervention by the FBI, has since been negated by the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States (also known as the "9/11 Commission"). In their final report, the commission noted:

Three questions have arisen with respect to the departure of Saudi nationals from the United States in the immediate aftermath of 9/11: (1) Did any flights of Saudi nationals take place before national airspace reopened on September 13, 2001? (2) Was there any political intervention to facilitate the departure of Saudi nationals? (3) Did the FBI screen Saudi nationals thoroughly before their departure?

First, we found no evidence that any flights of Saudi nationals, domestic or international, took place before the reopening of national airspace on the morning of September 13, 2001. To the contrary, every flight we have identified occurred after national airspace reopened.

Second, we found no evidence of political intervention. We found no evidence that anyone at the White House above the level of [National Security Council official] Richard Clarke participated in a decision on the departure of Saudi nationals ... The President and Vice President told us they were not aware of the issue at all until it surfaced much later in the media. None of the officials we interviewed recalled any intervention or direction on this matter from any political appointee.

Third, we believe that the FBI conducted a satisfactory screening of Saudi nationals who left the United State on charter flights. The Saudi government was advised of and agree to the FBI's requirements that passengers be identified and checked against various databases before the flights departed. The Federal Aviation Administration representative working in the FBI operations center made sure that the FBI was aware of the flights of Saudi nationals and was able to screen the passengers before they were allowed to depart.

The FBI interviewed all persons of interest on these flights prior to their departures. They concluded that none of the passengers was connected to the 9/11 attacks and have since found no evidence to change that conclusion. Our own independent review of the Saudi nationals involved confirms that no one with known links to terrorism departed on these flights.

The 9/11 Commission also expanded on the following points in footnotes to the section of the report quoted above:

During the morning of September 11, the FAA suspended all nonemergency air activity in the national airspace. While the national airspace was closed, decisions to allow aircraft to fly were made by the FAA working with the Department of Defense, Department of State, U.S. Secret Service, and the FBI. The Department of Transportation reopened the national airspace to U.S. carriers effective 11:00 A.M. on September 13, 2001, for flights out of or into airports that had implemented the FAA's new security requirements.

After the airspace reopened, nine chartered flights with 160 people, mostly Saudi nationals, departed from the United States between September 14 and 24. In addition, one Saudi government flight, containing the Saudi deputy defense minister and other members of an official Saudi delegation, departed Newark Airport on September 14. Every airport involved in these Saudi flights was open when the flight departed, and no inappropriate actions were taken to allow those flights to depart.

Another particular allegation is that a flight carrying Saudi nationals from Tampa, Florida, to Lexington, Kentucky, was allowed to fly while airspace was closed, with special approval by senior U.S. government officials. On September 13, Tampa police brought three young Saudis they were protecting on an off-duty security detail to the airport so they could get on a plane to Lexington. Tampa police arranged for two more private investigators to provide security on the flight. They boarded a chartered Learjet. The plane took off at 4:37 P.M., after national airspace was open, more than five hours after the Tampa airport had reopened, and after other flights had arrived at and departed from that airport. The three Saudi nationals debarked from the plane and were met by local police. Their private security guards were paid. and the police then escorted the three Saudi passengers to a hotel where they joined relatives already in Lexington. The FBI is alleged to have had no record of the flight and denied that it occurred, hence contributing to the story of a "phantom flight." This is another misunderstanding. The FBI was initially misinformed about how the Saudis got to Lexington by a local police officer in Lexington who did not have firsthand knowledge of the matter. The Bureau subsequently learned about the flight.

These flights were screened by law enforcement officials, primarily the FBI. For example, one flight, the so-called Bin Ladin flight, departed the United States on September 20 with 26 passengers, most of them relatives of Usama Bin Ladin. Screening of this flight was directed by an FBI agent in the Baltimore Field Office who was also a pilot ... The Bin Ladin flight and other flights we examined were screened in accordance with policies set by FBI headquarters and coordinated through working-level interagency processes. Although most of the passengers were not interviewed, 22 of the 26 people on the Bin Ladin flight were interviewed by the FBI. Many were asked detailed questions. None of the passengers stated that they had any recent contact with Usama Bin Ladin or knew anything about terrorist activity.

******************

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-04-09   0:06:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: LACUMO, christine, ALL (#36)

Definitely imploded just like the twin towers.

Except that Jowenko doesn't believe WTC 1 and WTC 2 were controlled demolitions.

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-04-09   0:07:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: christine, LACUMO, ALL (#37)

911 Mysteries: Demolitions? i think it's the best of all the 911 films.

Screw 9/11 mysteries. Good rebuttal video. You can find it here:

http://thedoc911.blogspot.com/

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-04-09   0:15:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: BeAChooser (#43)

http://thedoc911.blogspot.com/

shalom fish breath.

another one of your kook wingnut blogs?

"NO ONE has quoted the Constitution or US law as to the form a Declaration of War must take" -- Fish Breath's Famous Red Herring

Morgana le Fay  posted on  2007-04-09   0:17:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: BeAChooser (#41) (Edited)

None of the passengers stated that they had any recent contact with Usama Bin Ladin or knew anything about terrorist activity.

Be honest. What did ewe expect them to say? I can't remember the figure but it was over a hundred family members and the FBI examined them for evidence on the plane as they were getting ready to depart. Bet that was a thorough job of sifting possible evidence and they were simply allowed to leave after saying they didn't know anything about Osamma and 8-11.

I bet you still believe the magic bullet theory that killed President Kennedy and wounded Gov. John Connaly. That bullet had to zig-zag and do loopy-loops unlike any other bullet since firearms were invented. WOW!!!!

Just more cover-up by our criminal pols and their investigating commissions. Then it is backed up by the Jewish news mafia, er media. Then they wonder why newspaper readership has tanked, why regular tv network has tanked, and why the politicans are a shade below used car salesmen and two notches below attorneys. Oh, I forgot, most of the pols are attorneys.

LACUMO  posted on  2007-04-09   16:46:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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