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Title: 9/11 Pentagon Explosion:9:45 AM
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URL Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQ_g1buWhAA
Published: Apr 9, 2007
Author: youtube
Post Date: 2007-04-09 19:31:02 by honway
Ping List: *9-11* Subscribe to *9-11*
Keywords: None
Views: 10234
Comments: 114
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQ_g1buWhAA
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#3. To: All (#1)
Daryl Donley, [Downed lamp post], September 11 , 2001
That video appears to show an explosion some time after the initial attack, whatever it was. There is a great video by pilots for truth which examines the flight data info, and suggests that the airplane did not hit the Pentagon. It suggests that a winged missile was dropped by the large aircraft, which never got below about 300-400 feet.
How big were those wings, Paul? A hundred feet from tip to tip? Because something knocked down lightpoles spaced that far apart at least. And something created a plane shaped hole in the Pentagon about 90 feet across. Those missile wings must have been made of unobtainium to do that. ROTFLOL!
That is an interesting theory.
Mark "I was real close to Building 7 when it fell down... That didn't sound like just a building falling down to me while I was running away from it. There's a lot of eyewitness testimony down there of hearing explosions. [..] and the whole time you're hearing "boom, boom, boom, boom, boom." I think I know an explosion when I hear it... — Former NYC Police Officer and 9/11 Rescue Worker Craig Bartmer
To be clear,individuals making claims concerning the data from the flight data recorder need to start by stating if they believe the FDR data is fake or real. If the data is fake, you cannot make any conclusions based on fake data other than the data is fake. If the data is real, then the plane equipped with the FDR crashed into the Pentagon. It is absolute nonsense for any rational person to say the FDR data proves a plane did not crash into the Pentagon.You can attempt to make the case that data is fake, but you cannot use data that has been established as fake to prove what happened.
you'll enjoy your time here on 4um much more if you ignore our only bushbot government shill poster, BeAChooser aka ROTFLOL!. we have a bozo filter which you can access through the setup links top and bottom of the pages.
I'm not one who troubles myself with the opinions of those who support the official story, so there's no point in your derisive remarks. They merely reveal your lack of confidence in the substance of that which you say. According to pilots who know a lot more than you about flight data recorders, the plane never hit the Pentagon, and most of the evidence suggests their conclusion is accurate. Each of us chooses what we will believe. You choose to believe the myth told by the Bush administration. I don't.
well done. ;)
Well, that's your opinion, but it's not factually accurate. The flight data recorder can be accurate, and still be deceptive, if not properly understood. I suggest you watch the entire video, then you'll understand why the airplane did not hit the Pentagon. In summary, at zero altitude on the flight data recorder, the airplane was still at 300 feet. The process is explained in detail in the video by the 911 pilots for truth. It takes time, but if you're interested in being informed, it's the only way to go. It takes 6-7 minutes to get going, but once the animation begins, it's good.
I've found that those who criticize the 9-11 truth movement rely primarily upon childish taunts as their preferred method of debate. I'd just as soon argue with a dog about calculus. :)
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE 03/26/07 PILOTS FOR 9/11 TRUTH http://www.pilotsfor911truth.org Contact: Robert Balsamo e-mail: pilots@pilotsfor911truth.org OFFICIAL ACCOUNT OF 9/11 FLIGHT CONTRADICTED BY GOVERNMENT'S OWN DATA Pilots for 9/11 Truth, an international organization of pilots and aviation professionals, petitioned the National Transportation and Safety Board (NTSB) via the Freedom of Information Act to obtain their 2002 report, "Flight Path Study-American Airlines Flight 77", consisting of a Comma Separated Value (CSV) file and Flight Path Animation, allegedly derived from Flight 77's Flight Data Recorder (FDR). The data provided by the NTSB contradict the 9/11 Commission Report in several significant ways: The NTSB Flight Path Animation approach path and altitude does not support official events. All Altitude data shows the aircraft at least 300 feet too high to have struck the light poles. The rate of descent data is in direct conflict with the aircraft being able to impact the light poles and be captured in the Dept of Defense "5 Frames" video of an object traveling nearly parallel with the Pentagon lawn. The record of data stops at least one second prior to official impact time. If data trends are continued, the aircraft altitude would have been at least 100 feet too high to have hit the Pentagon. In August, 2006, members of Pilots for 9/11 Truth received these documents from the NTSB and began a close analysis of the data they contain. After expert review and cross check, Pilots for 9/11 Truth has concluded that the information in these NTSB documents does not support, and in some instances factually contradicts, the official government position that American Airlines Flight 77 struck the Pentagon on the morning of September 11, 2001. According to the 9/11 Commission Report, which relied heavily upon the NTSB Flight Path Study, American Airlines Flight 77 struck the Pentagon at 9:37:46 AM on the morning of September 11, 2001. However, the reported impact time according to the NTSB Flight Path Study is 09:37:45. Also according to reports, American Airlines Flight 77 struck the Pentagon and by doing so, struck down 5 light poles on Highway 27 in its path to the west wall. The information provided by the NTSB does not support the 9/11 Commission Report of American Airlines Flight 77 impact with the Pentagon. Pilots for 9/11 Truth is committed to discovering the truth surrounding the events of September 11, 2001. We have contacted both the NTSB and the FBI regarding these and other inconsistencies. To date, they have refused to comment on, correct, refute, retract or offer side-letters that might explain the discrepancies between what they claim are the data extracted from the FDR of AA Flight 77 and the official story alleging its crash into the Pentagon. As concerned citizens and professionals in the aviation industry, Pilots for 9/11 Truth asks, why have these discrepancies not been addressed by agencies within the United States Government? Why have they falsely represented their own data to the American people? Pilots for 9/11 Truth takes the position that an official government inquiry into these discrepancies is warranted and long overdue. We call upon our fellow citizens to write to their Congressional representatives to inform them of these discrepancies and call for an immediate investigation into this matter. For more information please visit http://pilotsfor911truth.org. Signed: Robert Balsamo 4000+ Total Flight Time Former: Independence Air/Atlantic Coast Airlines Glen Stanish 15,000+ Total Flight Time American Airlines, ATA, TWA, Continental Captain Russ Wittenberg (ret) 30,000+ Total Flight Time Former Pan Am, United United States Air Force (ret) Over 100 Combat Missions Flown John Lear Son of Bill Lear Founder, creator of the Lear Jet Corporation More than 40 years of Flying 19,000+ Total Flight Time Captain Jeff Latas USAF (ret) Captain - JetBlue Airways Ted Muga Naval Aviator - Retired Commander, USNR Col Robert Bowman USAF (ret) Directed all the ?Star Wars? programs under Presidents Ford and Carter - 101 combat missions Alfons Olszewski Founder Veterans For Truth US Army (ret) Aircraft Maintenance Crew Chief Robin Hordon Former Boston Center Controller Commercial Pilot John Panarelli Friend and fellow aviator of John Ogonowski - Capt. AA #11 11,000+ Total Flight Time Eastern Metro, Braniff, Ryan International, Emery Worldwide, Polar Air Cargo Lt. Colonel Shelton F. Lankford United States Marine Corps (ret) 10,000+ Total Flight Time 303 Combat Missions Captain Dan Govatos 10,000+ Total Flight Time Former Chief Pilot of Casino Express airlines Director of Operations Training at Polar Air George Nelson Colonel USAF (Ret.) Licensed Commercial Pilot and Aircraft Mechanic Dennis Spear Army Aviator (ret) 7000+ Total Flight Time Operations Officer, Aviation Safety Officer Captain Joe H. Ferguson 30,000+ Total Flight Time (ret) USAF (ret)
Do you believe the FDR data is fake or is it real?
Watch the video and you'll have your answer.
Do you believe the FDR data is fake or is it real? You are the only one on the planet that can answer my question.
Then get ready to be in suspense, because I don't play the silly games that your kind of debate entails. I've told you what I think. If you're too unmotivated to actually study the issue, if you need a world of absolutes, you're barking up the wrong tree. I talk about the events of 9-11 to promote inquiry. I'm not going to get sidetracked with a pointless banter over your pet method of arguing.
Are these Pentagon workers bunching up to hide the wing end from on-lookers? (Note - Can this small group of men, some middle-aged and paunchy, carry the entire wing end of an A-3 over their shoulders like this? Or, could they be carrying something else entirely...perhaps some debris with human remains or blood all over it? Or some piece of classified material? We may never know the truth. -ed) The Blue tarp photo was first posted on a military server but NOW even it is gone as the link to it is dead. The Power Hour first brought this photo to light, one of many of their 9/11 Firsts: We contributed to their superb In Plane Site videos: "You can not save the Constitution by destroying it."
Will someone(s) from both sides of the debate please explain to me what this secondary is supposed to mean. Was it attributed to munitions in the building for some previous purpose. Is the general opinion of the truth-seekers that is was a secondary explosion planted to insure adequate demolition to appear to be an airplane hit instead of a missle with a shaped charge...? BTW, "Paul Revere" did you know that the original Paul Revere was a York Rite Mason?
It is a question of character and integrity. Do you believe the FDR data is fake or is it real? Either a person can take a stand and answer a question or they can choose to wiggle under a rock. You should consider a screen name change. Paul Revere did not wiggle like a worm.
I have seen those photos before, and I agree that they are hiding something. The lack of debris suggests that something a lot smaller than a large commerical airliner hit the Pentagon. There are missiles that deploy from large aircraft, and upon deploying, have wings that pop out. They look very much like a small airplane, perhaps a private jet, and have a small engine of the type actually found at the Pentagon. No large engines were found anywhere in the Pentagon.
I don't know what that explosion is supposed to be, and have no explanation for it, and have not read any. As for Paul Revere, if I ever knew he was a Mason, I forgot it. They all were back then.
Either or ... There you go again. Either you're going to watch the video, or you're not going to know what I know. Either you're going to tire of nagging me to play your game, or you're not. I've raised kids, so your kind of pestering does not affect me. It's what kids do. "But why?! But you said ..."
Um... I don't remember seeing a plane shaped hole in the pentagon. I remember seeing a round hole, but not a plane shaped hole, because had there BEEN wings on the thing over 100 feet from tip to tip, There would have been much more lateral structural damage to the outer exterior of the building. Not to mention an absence of plane parts on the lawn at the time of the explosion, or how pristine the ground was all the way up to the Pentagon. A PLANE THAT SIZE, IN ORDER TO HIT THE PENTAGON AS LOW AS IT DID, WOULD HAVE DESTROYED A GOOD 300 yards of lawn on the way up. How do I know? A private firm asked me to make a scale model of the plane in question for their research, and with everything to scale, the engines would have drug the ground in order for the fuselage to hit as low as it did. Please, if you will, explain to me that little factoid.
Dying for old bastards, and their old money, isn't my idea of freedom.
if i may, i believe you might be missing the point of honway's question. if i'm understanding correctly, he wants to know whether or not you believe that the FDR discussed in the video is the real one from Flight 77. for if it's not, then viewing the video would be a waste of time.
Please, if you will, explain to me that little factoid. I am just going from memory here, but one analysis, measureing from the center of the pentagon's hole put the bottom of the engines nacellles (sp) eight feet into the ground. And I welcome BAC's input here, but sometimes I cannot follow, from the pictures, what he is suggesting. I just want to know what happened, and why it took 444 freeking days, under intense pressure from the victem's families. to cobble together a investigation into the roots of one the most damaging attacks on the USA. That happened to be packed with party hacks and insiders. Man it don't smell good. And why not release the many video tapes of the event??? That alone spells "culpibility". If what the governments position is grounded in the truth of the matter than the videos would have been proffered immediately.
The reason I don't respond to that kind of question is because it's often a ploy to take the discussion a different direction. What I believe is not relevant to the issues presented. Its intention is to make my beliefs the area of question, rather than making the issues surrounding 9-11 paramount. The online amateur debunker follows a fairly standard and simple regimen of attack, like the rightwing pundits who favor that tactic. The video is important because the many pilots who have examined the FDR data say it was shut off when the airplane was passing over the Pentagon, and the FDR proves that. They meticulously recreate the last minutes of the purported flight, and prove that it ends at over 300 feet in the air over the Pentagon. In summary, it's the actual FDR that was in the airplane which flew over but did not crash into the Pentagon. In that sense, it's a real FDR, with real data, but the data are deceptive, because they imply the aircraft was 300 feet lower than it really was. When the airplane took off that morning, it was calibrated for zero altitude 300 feet lower than it was flying, creating a record that seems to show the airplane was hitting the Pentagon. Therefore, the FDR accurately records information, which information, when properly interpreted, places the aircraft over 300 feet above the Pentagon at the moment it is shown to be hitting the Pentagon.
The "tarp" is one of many small tents, seen in other photos. Notice that it's being carried without any effort. It's got no particular bearing on anything that I can discover. {Hey BAC, how did I do? Huh? Huh?}
Who knows? If it is real, then 77 did not hit the Pentagon. If it is fake, then why? What is it hiding? I tend to believe it is real. Why fake the FDR data to make it appear impossible for 77 to have hit the Pentagon? If you are going to alter the data, why not do so to make it probable that 77 hit the Pentagon? Have you ever watched Pandora's Black Box Chapter 2?
#4. To: All (#3)
#5. To: honway (#0)
#6. To: Paul Revere, ALL (#5)
It suggests that a winged missile was dropped by the large aircraft
#7. To: Paul Revere (#5)
#8. To: Paul Revere (#5)
There is a great video by pilots for truth which examines the flight data info, and suggests that the airplane did not hit the Pentagon. It suggests that a winged missile was dropped by the large aircraft, which never got below about 300-400 feet.
#9. To: Paul Revere (#5)
(Edited)
#10. To: BeAChooser (#6)
#11. To: Paul Revere (#10)
#12. To: honway (#8)
(Edited)
#13. To: christine (#11)
#14. To: honway (#8)
#15. To: Paul Revere (#12)
#16. To: honway (#15)
#17. To: Paul Revere (#16)
Watch the video and you'll have your answer
#18. To: honway (#17)
#19. To: Paul Revere, honway (#18)
Compare the people in this photo, especially the guy in suspenders, and the carriers of the tarp covered aircraft part in the next photo: 
#20. To: Paul Revere (#18)
(Edited)
#21. To: Paul Revere (#18)
I'm not going to get sidetracked with a pointless banter over your pet method of arguing.
#22. To: Itisa1mosttoolate (#19)
#23. To: Simmering Frog (#20)
#24. To: honway (#21)
#25. To: BeAChooser (#6)
#26. To: Paul Revere, honway (#24)
#27. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#25)
engines would have drug the ground in order for the fuselage to hit as low as it did.
#28. To: christine (#26)
(Edited)
#29. To: Itisa1mosttoolate, Christine, Brian S, Honway, Robin, Aristeides, Red Jones, Diana, Kamala, All (#19)
#30. To: honway (#15)
Do you believe the FDR data is fake or is it real?
A new truth movement friendly digg type site: Zlonk it!
#31. To: honway (#15)
Doesn't really matter, flight 77 did not hit the Pentagon, any idiot can see that. All of these side discussions about whether this or that is true has nothing to do with the evidence clearly seen that day which PROVES that flight 77 did not hit the Pentagon. Arguing about details is a fools game. The chore now should be to wake people up, but not with the Pentagon evidence, as good as it is, it is not the best evidence that 9/11 was an inside job, WTC7 is.
Do you believe the FDR data is fake or is it real?
God is always good!
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
#32. To: RickyJ, WTC7 911Smoking Cannon (#31)
well said, Rick.
The chore now should be to wake people up, but not with the Pentagon evidence, as good as it is, it is not the best evidence that 9/11 was an inside job, WTC7 is.
#33. To: christine (#32)
Another great tagline.
"The line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes nor between parties either — but right through the human heart." — Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
#34. To: tom007 (#27)
the stand down of NORAD that day is all we need to know.....
#35. To: robin (#33)
thanks!
#36. To: Paul Revere (#28)
In summary, it's the actual FDR that was in the airplane which flew over but did not crash into the Pentagon. In that sense, it's a real FDR, with real data, but the data are deceptive, because they imply the aircraft was 300 feet lower than it really was. got it. unfortunately, the narrators have english accents which i'm finding difficult to hear.
The video is important because the many pilots who have examined the FDR data say it was shut off when the airplane was passing over the Pentagon, and the FDR proves that. They meticulously recreate the last minutes of the purported flight, and prove that it ends at over 300 feet in the air over the Pentagon.
#37. To: Critter (#30)
thanks, Critter, i've not seen this yet.
#38. To: honway (#0)
The local D.C. news radio reporting on what had happened at the Pentagon was very confused that morning. I wonder if it's recorded anywhere.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
#39. To: christine (#37)
That video looks good, will finish later. It touches on the "lost" money at the Pentagon. 9/11 was also a heist (the gold in WTC) and a coverup of a heist (the trillions missing from the Pentagon budget), besides the subsequent billions stolen during the war in Iraq.
"The line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes nor between parties either — but right through the human heart." — Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
#40. To: Critter (#30)
Who knows? In my view,logic demands an individual must determine if the data is fake or real before the data is used to prove what happened. There is a fundamental truth that many seem to be ignoring: you cannot use fake flight recorder data to establish the altitude and flight path for a jet. If the data is not fake,the aircraft that produced the data crashed into the Pentagon because the data stopped at the reported time of impact and aircraft do not disappear into thin air. It is like being pregnant,in my view. Either the data is fake or it is not fake.
Do you believe the FDR data is fake or is it real?
#41. To: Paul Revere, ALL (#5)
Ah yes ... pilots for truth. There still about 25 of them? No, now it's membership is up to 36. But I see one is still a sail plane pilot. And another is a student pilot and 9/11 *Truth* candidate. And one's still "in training". And one's a helicopter pilot. And one has a degree in Commercial Aviation and Aviation Management. And one's a flight attendant. And one's a radar technician. And a couple know a lot about props and ultra lights. And one once claimed he joined the democRAT Party because the Republicans weren't conservative enough. Quite a group when you consider that there are hundreds of thousands of commercial pilots who might have joined. ROTFLOL! How about this pilot's opinion? General Partin, an Air Force Command Pilot, sums up the case for Flight 77 hitting the Pentagon: "The alternative explanations just get crazier and crazier. In addition to the physical evidence and the photographic evidence supporting the official story, there are literally hundreds of eyewitnesses — including many people I know personally — who saw the 757. Besides that, there are the light poles that were knocked down — which I saw personally and which are in the photographic record — that can't be accounted for by a missile or small jet wingspan. Then you have the Flight 77 victim remains and the black boxes. If you reject all of that, then you have to come up with an alternative explanation for what happened to Flight 77. I've seen the alternative explanations and they're absurd!"
There is a great video by pilots for truth
#42. To: Paul Revere, ALL (#10)
So in other words, you don't have an explanation for the downed lightpoles. Nor the rather sizable holes in the Pentagon. Like these: I don't think I'm the one lacking confidence here, Paul. And that would be the Pilots For Truth? All 36 of them? Even though some aren't even pilots? ROTFLOL!
I'm not one who troubles myself with the opinions of those who support the official story, so there's no point in your derisive remarks. They merely reveal your lack of confidence in the substance of that which you say.
Left side and center hole damage 
central hole and right side damage 
Right side damage. 
Collage of what the damage looked like pre-collapse According to pilots who know a lot more than you about flight data recorders, the plane never hit the Pentagon, and most of the evidence suggests their conclusion is accurate.
#43. To: BeAChooser (#41)
Partin is a critic of the official story of the Oklahoma City bombing case. Do you have a citation quoting him on the false flag operation which took place in Washington, D.C.? Thanks. http://www.disinfo.com/archive/pages/article/id2461/pg2/index.html "Brigadier General (ret.) Partin has been the most vocal of the critics of the government's one-bomb, one-man scenario. During his thirty-one year Air Force career, General Partin's expertise was explosives. During that time, he designed warheads, "had a lot of experience in combat damage evaluation", was trained in all the pertinent military laboratories, and was one of the government's foremost--if not the foremost--experts on explosives. "When I first looked at the reports coming out of Oklahoma I knew that the truth was not coming out. The media was pretty much confused, or passing out disinformation, and I think some of the officials down there were passing out disinformation, and what was going on down there was totally at odds with what I had twenty-five years experience of knowing," General Partin has said. To Partin, the contention that the ANFO truck bomb did the damage to the Murrah Building is "absurd". Within a month of April 19, 1995, the General had prepared a technical analysis of the bombing. In the report, Partin made it clear that by the time the blast wave from the ANFO truck bomb had hit the building it would not have had anywhere near enough psi (pounds of pressure per square inch) to collapse the steel-reinforced concrete columns. (By the time the ANFO blast wave hit the columns it would have been yielding 25-375 psi; the yield strength of concrete is 3,500-5,000 psi.) The report also made it clear that larger, thicker columns further away from the truck bomb came down, while smaller columns much closer to the truck were undamaged. "You don't have to go any further than that to know that you had demolition charges on those larger columns. There's no other explanation for it . . . Unless you believe in magic," Partin said. General Partin examined hundreds of photos of the destroyed building, and his in depth report listed the many other reasons why he can see “clearly, clearly…with a very high probability . . . with a high level of confidence" exactly where interior bombs were placed. Partin eventually delivered his analysis to all 535 senators and congressmen. In his cover letter to the politicians, he pleaded that the "Congress take steps to assure that evidence in Oklahoma City be evaluated by a collection of demolition experts from the private sector before the building is demolished." If experts had been able to examine the building closely, they could have reported definitively how the building was bombed. On 23 May 1995, though, just 34 days after the bombing, the Murrah Building was destroyed, and the rubble was buried in a landfill that is surrounded by a chain link fence and guarded by security personnel. "This is a classic cover-up of immense proportions," the General said.
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