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Dead Constitution
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Title: The Second Amendment is Second Only to the First
Source: [None]
URL Source: [None]
Published: Apr 10, 2007
Author: Paul Revere
Post Date: 2007-04-10 15:57:37 by Paul Revere
Keywords: first amendment, second amendment, constitution
Views: 310
Comments: 29

The Second Amendment is Second Only to the First

People who try to limit the second amendment to hunting needs or the maintenance of a State Guard unit are an affront to the sacrifice and genius of the founding fathers. The purpose of the second amendment is to assure that Americans stay armed, as the ultimate check on a government created with checks and balances.

Our founding fathers rightly feared having a central government that had the power to dominate citizens and deprive them of their liberties. They saw first hand that a country of well armed citizens could overthrow a government which oppressed them. The goal of the second amendment is to keep our federal government from ever thinking about depriving us of our constitutional rights.

The first amendment is much heralded, and it should be. The colonies were created in part because people wanted to be free to practice their religion without having their government involved. Our right of free speech is the ability to criticize our government and each other freely. We treasure these rights, as we should.

The second amendment is much maligned, and it should not be. The colonies could never have achieved independence without the population being well-armed. It was the ability of the colonists to form militias and carry out attacks against the British that gave us our victory. If we had not been armed, we would still be bowing to the royals of Britain.

The opponents of the second amendment don't get it. They don't get that our risks and our freedoms go hand in hand. Yes, an armed society has more gun deaths. If our only goal as a country was to minimize guns deaths, gun control measures would do it. But we have a bundle of rights, and those rights include the right to keep and bear arms. Assault weapons, too? Yes, if that is what a person wishes to buy, and they're not a criminal or a certifiably crazy person.

There will always be years when a Charles Whitman crawls up into a tower and shoots a bunch of innocent people. There will always be a Columbine high school student or a postal worker who decides to shoot his classmates or co-workers.

Violent criminals should be locked up and put away forever, whether they use a gun or not. Stop paroling violent criminals. Punish the crime, not the weapon of the crime. There are tens of millions of guns in this country, and most of them are used a lot more safely than the tens of millions of automobiles in this country, which are every bit as dangerous.

The second amendment is second only to the first. If we lose the rights in the second, we'll eventually lose the rights in the first.

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#1. To: Paul Revere (#0)

We treasure these rights, as we should.

Do we?

Do we really, us garden variety Americans?

Because I don't think we really do. Oh, sure, we SAY that we do. But what about the virulent hatred of the ACLU? Or even the ACLU itself in its refusal to fight for the 2d Amendment rights of Americans?

I don't think all Americans treasure the bill of rights or our freedom of speech, assembly or religion. Look at the hatred of Muslims as a religion. Or the lack of outcry when the Dallas police ride roughshod (with horses, literally) over peaceful protestors. Or when people are arrested for carrying placards along a presidential limo route.

I long ago concluded that most people who call themselves Christians didn't deserve to be the inheritors of such a genius of a religion as Christianity. I'm beginning to believe that most Americans aren't worthy of the genius of the government the founders established. We certainly haven't shown any great willingness to fight to retain it.

Twenty Muslims (I'm adopting the official version of 9-11 for argument only) flew some planes into a few buildings and killed around three thousand Americans, and we renounced the Geneva Conventions, Habeas Corpus, our UN obligations, international law and the Fourth Amendment in our fearful response.

That sounds like the actions of a pack of scared, lilly livered weaklings to me. Not people who "treasure" their liberties.

It is not a Justice System. It is just a system.

bluedogtxn  posted on  2007-04-10   16:10:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: bluedogtxn (#1)

The topic is the second amendment, not the first.

If you'd like to talk about the first, fine, but that's another topic, and you really should start a thread about that.

I have plenty of opinions about this first amendment, but this thread is about the second. Got anything on that?

Paul Revere  posted on  2007-04-10   16:18:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Paul Revere, Blue, shooters here (#2)

Got anything on that?

We just took delivery of two .416's if that tells how we feel about the 2A...

The paperwork included the typical lawyered-up WARNING: This round can be fatal up to five miles.

Dr.Ron Paul for President

Lod  posted on  2007-04-10   16:25:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: lodwick (#3)

I'm not so much interested in what hardware people have, as their attitudes about attempts to make the second amendment much more limited than it is intended. It seems that the events of Columbine and other incidents are used, much as "terror," to limit our freedoms.

Paul Revere  posted on  2007-04-10   16:31:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Paul Revere (#4) (Edited)

The process started along time ago when Tommy Guns got a bad rap because mobsters used them. (You can go back farther if you like regarding gun ownership to minorities.) Columbine had the nil effect of trigger locks which is nothing compared to banning machine guns or the FAA banning guns on airplanes.

Ron Paul 2008

JohnGalt  posted on  2007-04-10   16:37:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Paul Revere (#4)

It seems that the events of Columbine and other incidents are used, much as "terror," to limit our freedoms.

Many in this regime would use any "event" to gut the true meaning of the 2A, and disarm us.

Best we get back to the gov fearing the people, and Ronnie Barrett's just brought to market the "legal" tool to help.

Dr.Ron Paul for President

Lod  posted on  2007-04-10   16:38:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: JohnGalt (#5)

...the FAA banning guns on airplanes.

Courtesy the smirk regime only a few month pre-9/11.

Dr.Ron Paul for President

Lod  posted on  2007-04-10   16:39:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: lodwick (#7)

No, the FAA hasn't approved guns on planes since the 70s, I think the cover was DB Cooper or a spat of hijackings, I cannot quite recall.

Ron Paul 2008

JohnGalt  posted on  2007-04-10   16:46:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Paul Revere (#0)

There will always be years when a Charles Whitman crawls up into a tower and shoots a bunch of innocent people. There will always be a Columbine high school student or a postal worker who decides to shoot his classmates or co-workers

Whitman began his spree by stabbing his mother and wife to death, and it was armed citizens with their deer rifles that kept him down until the police mustered a response and neutralized the threat.

Once he came under fire from good old boys with scoped hunting rifles on the ground his spree was all but over.

And it does not necessarily follow that gun prohibition would have the intended effect in America. We have millions of firearms in private hands and thousands of machine shops that could manufacture them as fast as widgets.

If prohibition was effective would we have more drugs than ever pouring in?

Otherwise your post is very good.

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2007-04-10   16:49:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Paul Revere (#2)

The topic is the second amendment, not the first.

And my observations stand in regard to that one, too. The Feds have made it illegal to sell the kinds of weapons that we could really defend our liberties with, and they did it a long time ago, with nary a whimper from us.

So we're debating how big the stock is or the clip or the scope or the penetrating power of the rounds, nevermind the fact that you have to register ownership and the first thing they'll do in the case of insurrection is go to all the registered owners and force them to surrender their guns for "public safety" reasons. We saw that in Katrina, didn't we? By what right or law did weapons confiscation take place there? And that was mercenaries, no less, taking guns from private citizens. Barely a whisper of protest.

So the 2d Amendment is a dead letter anyway. It's an amendment we neither understand nor enforce. We don't deserve it, frankly, because we've given it up so easily.

The first thing they did when taking away our freedom was to take away our right to firearms, and they did it a long time ago without much protest from us. What we have left is a privilege, to be revoked by the Elected King at will. Else how is it that there is a gun ban in Washington DC, a purely federal preserve?

Should we bring back the 2d Amendment? Sure, but I'd like a big mansion and a pony and million dollars, too. I mean, while we're wishing on stars...

It is not a Justice System. It is just a system.

bluedogtxn  posted on  2007-04-10   16:54:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: JohnGalt (#8)

OK - You're talking passengers, and I'm talking pilots - aren't we?

Dr.Ron Paul for President

Lod  posted on  2007-04-10   17:02:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: bluedogtxn (#1)

That sounds like the actions of a pack of scared, lilly livered weaklings to me. Not people who "treasure" their liberties.

Actually, the people who ALLOWED the government to suspend all those rights, are a bunch of scared, lilly livered weaklings. My ancestors who fought in the revolution realize that their sacrifice was for naught. Just like our founding fathers right now would be ashamed of what has happened to their bold experiment, not more than 50 years after the inception.

Dying for old bastards, and their old money, isn't my idea of freedom.

TommyTheMadArtist  posted on  2007-04-10   17:30:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#12)

Actually, the people who ALLOWED the government to suspend all those rights, are a bunch of scared, lilly livered weaklings.

And have we taken them back?

Because if we haven't, then we've allowed it, too.

It is not a Justice System. It is just a system.

bluedogtxn  posted on  2007-04-10   17:33:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: bluedogtxn (#10)

Let's try this again.

One topic is the first amendment. It's different from the one called the second amendment. They're tied together consecutively by the founders, and the second follows only the first. By this placement we might infer the importance to the founders who adopted the Bill of Rights. I'm sure you've read the 87 Federalist Papers, and know this.

I agree that the first amendment has been terribly trounced upon this administration, and most Americans have not done much about, but that does not alter the status those rights have as TREASURED.

You infer improperly when you conclude otherwise.

Paul Revere  posted on  2007-04-10   17:42:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Paul Revere (#14)

Let's try this again.

Americans have not done much about, but that does not alter the status those rights have as TREASURED.

Yes, it absolutely does.

Because if you treasure something, you protect it passionately. You will not let it be taken from you. You will defend it, and if you treasure it enough and want it to be a legacy to your children and you want them to treasure it as you do, you will die defending it.

And we don't do that.

We didn't defend the second Amendment when the Supreme Court permitted the feds to strip it of all meaning and relegate it to some historical dustbin about militias; we didn't defend it passionately when they took our automatic weapons away; we don't defend the ancillary rights to possess explosives for the purpose of protecting ourselves against the oppression of the government, which is what the 2d amendment was intended for.

If we aren't willing to stand up and fight for this "right", then it isn't a treasured right, it is a dead fucking letter. Just like the rest of the constitution has become.

You have free speech unless you say the wrong thing, then you can be imprisoned for life without trial by the president.

You have freedom of assembly unless you assemble with folks who are anti- gummint, and then you are subject to being arrested and held without trial and tortured forever.

We've given the president the power to designate anyone, including American Citizens, as "enemy combatants" and put them in prison for a short life of torture and anonymous death.

You want to try this again? Okay.

Obviously we don't have any "treasured" rights in this country, because if we treasured them, there'd be blood in the streets right now. They have ALL been taken away. The president can lock up anyone anytime on just his own say-so. He and the rest of our representatives have stripped us of ALL of our rights, and with our tacit permission.

We didn't understand what was happening because we were too lazy to take the time to understand. We didn't fight because we didn't have the courage to fight. There's no blood in the streets because when it came our time to water the tree of liberty with the blood of patriots and tyrants, we declined. Because we value our safety over our liberty; our property over our freedoms and our dependence over resistance.

So we did this to ourselves. We deserve the tyranny we've inherited and permitted. And our progenitors would be ashamed to even look at us.

So you can talk and talk about which hypothetical right we once had was more important than whichever other one, and you might be right or you might be wrong, but it's all hypothetical bullshit. Because if your words ever truly mean anything or impact anyone significantly enough, the powers that we've permitted to take over this country will arrest you and disappear you.

Get used to being governed without your consent, because we've consented to the government we have.

And welcome to police state America.

It is not a Justice System. It is just a system.

bluedogtxn  posted on  2007-04-10   18:01:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: bluedogtxn (#15)

Well, that's certainly one point of view.

Paul Revere  posted on  2007-04-10   18:13:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: bluedogtxn (#15)

One hell of a post.

I don't know that we "deserve" this, but we surely have it.

The nose of the camel effect.

Dr.Ron Paul for President

Lod  posted on  2007-04-10   18:20:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Paul Revere (#14) (Edited)

I must ask about the founder worship. They conspired, for various reasons, to overthrow the Articles of Confederation and saddle us with the US Constitution, and made a tale, still told today, how they never intended the present state of affairs to occur...what on Earth were they smoking back then?

Ron Paul 2008

JohnGalt  posted on  2007-04-10   20:25:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: JohnGalt (#18) (Edited)

If you want to talk about the framers, we can. Which ones did you want to discuss? Do you only include the men at Philadelphia, or are you familiar with those who added the Bill of Rights? Do you see any reason to make a distinction? And finally, do you really expect me take seriously the taunts of someone named after a character from the signature book of a very weak 20th century author? No framers worship by me. I speak in reality, not fantasy.

If you read non fiction, try Henry A. Beard's An Economic Interpretation of the Constitution, which chronicles the business holdings of the founders, and compares them to their votes on key issues. Yeah, they were taking care of number one.

The fact is it wasn't the traditional founding fathers who gave us the Bill of Rights. It was the rabble rousers who wouldn't take the constitution without the Bill of Rights, and held out the Articles of Confederation unanimity requirement as their bargaining chip.

Paul Revere  posted on  2007-04-10   23:44:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Paul Revere (#19)

The Bill of Rights was a sell-out to the Anti-Federalist federalists and has been completely ineffectual, so why continue to celebrate it? Public schools, the 14th Amendment etc etc make it a dead letter. I am critiquing your approach which is why you posted this article.

Ron Paul 2008

JohnGalt  posted on  2007-04-11   7:03:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: JohnGalt (#20)

The Bill of Rights was a sell-out to the Anti-Federalist federalists and has been completely ineffectual, so why continue to celebrate it? Public schools, the 14th Amendment etc etc make it a dead letter. I am critiquing your approach which is why you posted this article.

Well, I already have an informed opinion, but thanks for yours, such as it is.

We disagree. You're an absolutist. I'm not. No point in stretching this piece of taffy any further.

Paul Revere  posted on  2007-04-11   7:11:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Paul Revere (#21) (Edited)

I'm hardly an absolutist, just a realist. Reminding people of their culture, or the culture of their ancestors in our post-modern world, or thanks to immigration, the culture of their adopted homeland, as embodied in the written words of the Bill O' Rights, has been ineffective to say the least.

Ron Paul 2008

JohnGalt  posted on  2007-04-11   7:20:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: JohnGalt (#22)

I understand the feeling, even the commitment, of being loyal to the Ron Pauls. I was 18 once, and when I read Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead, Ayn Rand's notions impressed me - until I served in the military, and thereafter actually learned history.

Paul Revere  posted on  2007-04-11   7:30:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Paul Revere (#23)

That post is just idle posturing. You served in the King's Army and now, what, feel bad about it? John Galt is just a comic book character who favored a sort of secession, and when you want to step up to the plate with your screen name, come join the New England Nationalist position.

Ron Paul 2008

JohnGalt  posted on  2007-04-11   7:35:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: JohnGalt (#24)

No, I don't feel bad at all about serving in the military. It was great. I'm glad I did it. Someone has to, and I'm glad to have done my part.

The King's Army? Maybe you never heard, but we beat that guy.

Paul Revere  posted on  2007-04-11   7:39:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Paul Revere (#25)

Then you haven't learned history yet if you served in a standing army....can you post what the forefathers thought about that concept?

Ron Paul 2008

JohnGalt  posted on  2007-04-11   7:43:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: JohnGalt (#26)

I didn't serve in a standing Army, soldier.

We flew in the Air Force.

Save your bullets. You're wasting them on me. You couldn't hit me if you were standing next to me.

Tell Thoreau I said Hi!

Paul Revere  posted on  2007-04-11   7:52:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: Paul Revere (#16)

Well, that's certainly one point of view.

I'm lifting a candle, Paul. Time for you to take your ride.

It is not a Justice System. It is just a system.

bluedogtxn  posted on  2007-04-11   9:31:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: bluedogtxn (#28)

If everyone lit just one little candle, what a bright world this would be.

Especially if one of them caught the curtain on fire, as candles are wont to do.

Paul Revere  posted on  2007-04-11   10:34:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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