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Title: Einstein was right: space and time bend
Source:
The Observer
URL Source: http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,2057529,00.html
Published: Apr 15, 2007
Author: Anushka Asthana and David Smith
Post Date: 2007-04-15 22:49:08 by BeAChooser
Keywords: None
Views: 457
Comments: 33
Einstein was right: space and time bend Ninety years after he expounded his famous theory, a $700m Nasa probe has proved that the universe behaves as he said. Now the race is on to show that the other half of relativity also works Anushka Asthana and David Smith Sunday April 15, 2007 The Observer Under his name in the Oxford English Dictionary is the simple definition: genius. Yet for decades physicists have been asking the question: did Albert Einstein get it wrong? After half a century, seven cancellations and $700m, a mission to test his theory about the universe has finally confirmed that the man was a mastermind - or at least half proved it. The early results from Gravity Probe B, one of Nasa's most complicated satellites, confirmed yesterday 'to a precision of better than 1 per cent' the assertion Einstein made 90 years ago - that an object such as the Earth does indeed distort the fabric of space and time. But this - what is referred to as the 'geodetic' effect - is only half of the theory. The other, 'frame-dragging', stated that as the world spins it drags the fabric of the universe behind it. Francis Everitt, the Stanford University professor who has devoted his life to investigating Einstein's theory of relativity, told scientists at the American Physical Society it would be another eight months before he could measure the 'frame-dragging' effect precisely. 'Understanding the details is a bit like an archeological dig,' said William Bencze, programme manager for the mission. 'A scientist starts with a bulldozer, follows with a shovel, then finally uses dental picks and toothbrushes to clear the dust away. We're passing out the toothbrushes now.' The Gravity Probe B project was conceived in the late 1950s but suffered decades of delays while other scientists ran tests corroborating Einstein's theory. It was Everitt's determination that stopped it being cancelled. The joint mission between Nasa and Stanford University uses four of the most perfect spheres - ultra precise gyroscopes - to detect minute distortions in the fabric of the universe. Everitt's aim was to prove to the highest precision yet if Einstein was correct in the way he described gravity. According to Einstein, in the same way that a large ball placed on a elasticated cloth stretches the fabric and causes it to sag, so planets and stars warp space-time. A marble moving along the sagging cloth will be drawn towards the ball, as the Earth is to the Sun, but not fall into it as long as it keeps moving at speed. Gravity, argued Einstein, was not an attractive force between bodies as had been previously thought. Few scientists need the final results, which will be revealed in December, to convince them of Einstein's genius. 'From the most esoteric aspects of time dilation through to the beautiful and simple equation, e=mc2, the vast bulk of Einstein's ideas about the universe are standing up to the test of time,' said Robert Massey, from the Royal Astronomical Society. He said the mission was 'legitimate science' to test a theory and confirm its brilliance, but others have criticised the costs and length of the study, claiming that what was announced had already been shown. Sir Martin Rees, the Astronomer Royal, said the announcement would 'fork no lightning'. The theory explained When Einstein wrote his general theory of relativity in 1915, he found a new way to describe gravity. It was not a force, as Sir Isaac Newton had supposed, but a consequence of the distortion of space and time, conceived together in his theory as 'space-time'. Any object distorts the fabric of space-time and the bigger it is, the greater the effect. Just as a bowling ball placed on a trampoline stretches the fabric and causes it to sag, so planets and stars warp space-time - a phenomenon known as the 'geodetic effect'. A marble moving along the trampoline will be drawn inexorably towards the ball. Thus the planets orbiting the Sun are not being pulled by the Sun; they are following the curved space-time deformation caused by the Sun. The reason the planets never fall into the Sun is because of the speed at which they are travelling. According to the theory, matter and energy distort space-time, curving it around themselves. 'Frame dragging' theoretically occurs when the rotation of a large body 'twists' nearby space and time. It is this second part of Einstein's theory that the Nasa mission has yet to corroborate.
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#1. To: BeAChooser (#0)
Einstein had doubts about his own theory towards the end of his life and some scientists say his equations were misinterpreted or not quite right, though others have done work on this too and found it very difficult. I'm just curious about this whole topic and will be happy when it's solved, though I doubt any human will be able to solve it completely because I think a lot of it goes beyond our comprehension. For instance I find it difficult to grasp the idea of space and time being twisted. How does time become twisted? How can space and time curve around themselves? Of course I am dumb though and I am sure that many of the posters who are not dumb can easily understand this subject matter.
How is this supposed to fool us into believing Saddam had WMD or that Al Qaeda was runnig Iraq before we invaded?
Bunch of internet bums ... grand jury --- opium den ! ~ byeltsin
I believe he actually thinks about other things at times.
Yes, how much the 911 stories hurt Bush.
Bunch of internet bums ... grand jury --- opium den ! ~ byeltsin
Here is an interesting thought proof of the variability of time. An observor is on a very high speed train. A land based observor happens to be exactly in the middle of the fast moving train when lightening simultainously strikes the front and back of the train. From this event TWO perspectives emerge. The passenger in the train would have moved a little closer towards the front train while the light from the event passed towards her and that she will have percieved it as striking the front of the train before the lightening hit the rear of the train. The land observor sees the same event as both lightening strikes happening at the same time. Both are correct, time is variable. Not by much untill superhuman speeds are achieved. Interesting that Sir Newton recognized the same, that his calculus was correct, only if time was a constant.
BeAChooser my have something up his sleeve. Look what he posted yesterday on Log Cabin. #14. To: Frolicking Butt Bunny (#12) K-Y Jelly is so nineties. Why would anyone use it when there are so many nice lotions and lubricants available available for a night out with the boys? By the way, I am going to start posting some serious non-political articles on 4dumb to lull the 4dummers before I let them have it. BeAChooser posted on 2007-04-14 08:15:32 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
He posts science articles now and then. He must be over his ten post limit as he is not responding. I think it's healthy for him to show other interests.
You must have been a great mother.
What's with the past tense here!? Thanks though but no kids.
I have to admit I feel sorry for him sometimes. He gets picked on something terrible and then he ends up getting punished. He's his own worst enemy but I don't think he can see that.
Yes, right now he seems to have an unhealthy obsession with a Log Cabin poster named Mr. Thunderbutt.
Sorry - Will be a great mother. <>
Probably won't be a mother.
See? Poor guy.
Surprises happen. You might have triplets. Anyway there are alot of ways to be a mother, alot of children don't have a mother, or much of one. Fathers either, and the consequences are grave. As you and I know.
Are you implying that Fish Breath might be a little light in the loafers?
Bunch of internet bums ... grand jury --- opium den ! ~ byeltsin
I can fix that.
#2. To: BeAChooser (#0)
#3. To: Minerva (#2)
#4. To: Diana (#3)
I believe he actually thinks about other things at times.
#5. To: Diana, BeAChooser (#1)
"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men" Plato
#6. To: Minerva (#2)
How is this supposed to fool us into believing Saddam had WMD or that Al Qaeda was runnig Iraq before we invaded?
#7. To: Trace21231, Minerva (#6)
#8. To: Diana (#7)
I think it's healthy for him to show other interests.
"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men" Plato
#9. To: tom007 (#8)
You must have been a great mother.
#10. To: tom007 (#5)
#11. To: Diana (#7)
I think it's healthy for him to show other interests.
#12. To: Diana (#9)
I think it's healthy for him to show other interests.
"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men" Plato
#13. To: tom007 (#12)
#14. To: tom007, Trace21231 (#11)
Yes, right now he seems to have an unhealthy obsession with a Log Cabin poster named Mr. Thunderbutt.
#15. To: Diana (#13)
Probably won't be a mother.
"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men" Plato
#16. To: Trace21231, BeAPillowBiter (#11)
Yes, right now he seems to have an unhealthy obsession with a Log Cabin poster named Mr. Thunderbutt.
#17. To: Diana (#13)
Probably won't be a mother.
A new truth movement friendly digg type site: Zlonk it!
#18. To: tom007 (#5)
I got confused here. Land-based observer implies to me this person is standing on the ground outside by the train, yet you say that person is exactly in the middle of the train, do you mean outside but as the lightening strikes the person on the land happens to be standing exactly by the mid-point of the train?
A land based observor happens to be exactly in the middle of the fast moving train
#19. To: Critter, diana (#17)
Might make critter change his name before signing any papers, IMVHO.
I can fix that.
"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men" Plato
#20. To: Diana (#18)
Yes, the land based person is exactly at the mid point of the train when the lightening strikes the front and the back of the train at the same time. The person in the train will travel foreward towards the front strike and will percieve the front strike before she will percieve the reart strike. SOOO, the matter of time is altered by velocity. And it really is true, just not percieveable in our usual world.
et you say that person is exactly in the middle of the train, do you mean outside but as the lightening strikes the person on the land happens to be standing exactly by the mid-point of the train?
"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men" Plato
#21. To: tom007 (#20)
OH! Now I got it, that is interesting. I do think our perception of time is not how it really is, it's hard to put in words.
#22. To: tom007 (#20) (Edited)
I don't see it that way. Perception was altered by velocity, time wasn't. BTW, velocity is measured in meters per second, so if traveling at high velocity were able to alter time, then it would alter the very definition of velocity.
SOOO, the matter of time is altered by velocity.
God is always good!
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
#23. To: Diana, Christine, Brian S, Honway, Robin, Aristeides, Red Jones, Kamala, All (#0)
How does one define "time?" By the "Omholt" definition, "...time is perceived relative change, based upon an assigned reference." The moon rotates around the Earth - relative to 'what' reference - something physical; or the "time" associated with the Sun - an always variable reference. Put a person in a lighted and windowless cell; then vary the meal schedule. Does he/she know what "time" it is? By referring to what? A sleep schedule? events of thirst or hunger? How long does it take, without an agreed-upon reference - before they can't guess what day or month it is? Speed up or slow down a clock on the wall. Will they know what 'time' it is? Do the digits on a 'clock' display change - relative to what? Who would know if they are faster or slower - than what reference? Human time? Clingon time? Dog? Cat? So, if one can't pin down "time," what theories can use "time," other than to refer to an approximation? There's the rub. What changed - "time," itself; or the physical "calibration" reference? By how much, relative to what? Etc.
#24. To: Diana (#1)
You are not dumb at all. You don't believe something just because someone says something is true. That is not dumb, that is smart.
For instance I find it difficult to grasp the idea of space and time being twisted. How does time become twisted? How can space and time curve around themselves? Of course I am dumb though and I am sure that many of the posters who are not dumb can easily understand this subject matter.
God is always good!
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
#25. To: RickyJ (#22)
might velocity be defined by distance divided by time by a directional vector, such as north or south west? "so if traveling at high velocity were able to alter time, then it would alter the very definition of velocity." I belive so. Alter time and alter velocity.
BTW, velocity is measured in meters per second, so if traveling at high velocity were able to alter time, then it would alter the very definition of velocity.
"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men" Plato
#26. To: BeAChooser (#0) (Edited)
Why is this marble drawn toward the bowling ball on the trampoline? Because of Earth's gravity, not because of the bowling ball on the trampoline. Trying to explain gravity, with gravity, doesn't quite work out, but I'm sure NASA got a lot of tax payer money to waste here, so why not have a party?
Just as a bowling ball placed on a trampoline stretches the fabric and causes it to sag, so planets and stars warp space-time - a phenomenon known as the 'geodetic effect'. A marble moving along the trampoline will be drawn inexorably towards the ball.
God is always good!
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
#27. To: BeAChooser (#0)
BTW, 1% precision is pretty bad.
The early results from Gravity Probe B, one of Nasa's most complicated satellites, confirmed yesterday 'to a precision of better than 1 per cent' the assertion Einstein made 90 years ago - that an object such as the Earth does indeed distort the fabric of space and time.
God is always good!
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
#28. To: RickyJ (#24) (Edited)
Diana darn sure is not dumb. She is really smart. Years ago I posted a Microsoft hire ? concerning eight billards balls, one underweight, with a weight scale and how to determimine which one was faulty. She nailed it. Nuff said.
You are not dumb at all. You don't believe something just because someone says something is true. That is not dumb, that is smart.
"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men" Plato
#29. To: BeAChooser (#0) (Edited)
Fall? Does the reporter have any shame, or is this another one of the plagiarists infamous ideas. You can't fall without gravity being involved. Again, explaining gravity with gravity won't work.
The reason the planets never fall into the Sun is because of the speed at which they are travelling.
God is always good!
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
#30. To: SKYDRIFTER, Ricky J, tom007, critter, Sam Houston, scrapper2, ferret mike, christine (#23)
By the "Omholt" definition, "...time is perceived relative change, based upon an assigned reference." This is my theory on time but I have to warn it's unusual. I have reasons to believe it, though of course I could be wrong but it's what I think. I believe when we are born we become stuck in a graph of sorts where say time is on the X axis and space on the Y axis. We all become embedded in the graph, and God or universal knowledge or whatever some people would call It is outside of the graph where there is no time or space. When we die our souls rise up out of the graph. Maybe the bad people go to a hell or something I don't know, but I do believe souls live on after death and rise out of time/space where there is no longer time and space as such. I know the atheist types will be rolling their eyes, but they should not be surprised when upon death they find out they are still around, just in a different form. And no I'm not smoking anything.
How does one define "time?"
#31. To: RickyJ (#26) (Edited)
Good catch, good point too, don't know if anyone will ever be able to really figure it all out.
Why is this marble drawn toward the bowling ball on the trampoline? Because of Earth's gravity, not because of the bowling ball on the trampoline. Trying to explain gravity, with gravity, doesn't quite work out
#32. To: Diana (#30)
No, you are right. I have had a Near Death Experience (I was a pedestrian hit head-on by an out-of-control Chevrolet Suburban which ran off the road into me going at least 40 mph). This is exactly what it feels like. You suddenly realize time was an illusion as you enter eternity. The other experience I had was that the only thing that survives physical death is love, although it is very difficult to put into words why I was left with that impression. It DID feel like my spirit was being guided to another dimension by some entity, be it an angel or God or whatever. I was very clearly told that my life was being miraculously spared and to always remember from that point on that love is all we have and to try to practice it in all my remaining time on earth. Everything else is illusion. There IS an afterlife. I got the impression that what happens after you die DOES to some extent depend on what you have done here. I don't know that for sure, though. I would say any "hell" would be self-imposed through having lived a life of total absence of love for others or even oneself. So much of this is not clear to me, though. I "see through a glass darkly" as Paul put it. I am no longer quite so certain (I am a Christian and saw/felt nothing on "the other side" to dissuade me) that Jesus is the only way; only that love is the only way. If Jesus is love, then I suppose we are just talking about semantics. I was never all that dogmatic about faith or religion, but now I am less so than ever. This is why I left the Baptist church also. After 9/11, the Southern Baptist preacher here was just too damned sure that God was an American and Jesus was a Republican and Bush was the fourth member of what used to be known as the Trinity. I pity the man. It is just sad. There is no reason to feel bitter about it. I just walked away from it. You just have to feel sorry for all these warmongers and know that "karma" is probably real also.
The benefits of education and of useful knowledge, generally diffused through a community, are essential to the preservation of a free government. - Sam Houston
#33. To: Sam Houston (#32)
You have my deepest respect and reagard for you experience/survival/attitudes. That's a hell of a way to gain "clarity." The hassle being that your truly meaningful range of peers is incredibly small. (...and how would I know that?) Press onward!
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