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Religion
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Title: Biblical Question
Source: N/A
URL Source: http://N/A
Published: Apr 20, 2007
Author: KJV
Post Date: 2007-04-20 14:35:03 by intotheabyss
Keywords: None
Views: 1653
Comments: 124

I was wondering about Mathew 5:18-19.

5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

When you read the 4Th commandment it says:

KJV - 8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

My question is:

Why don't most churches worship on Saturday and why do most people feel compelled to use Sunday (the day of sun worshipers) as a day of worship and rest?

When the bible seems to me to be very clear on this. In Jesus's own words: (one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law)

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 53.

#41. To: intotheabyss (#0)

Well .. Jesus was and IS the fulfillment of the Law.. "one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.".. He fulfilled the law..the law is no longer for those in Christ written as it's said on stone tablets but written in the hearts of those who are called by His name..

Therefore, the Sabbath (part of the law) is fulfilled in Jesus .. remember when the veil was torn when Jesus died? Men no longer had to go to the temple etc to be with God.. but the Spirit was released.. SO if we are in Christ Jesus.. we are keeping the Sabbath for He IS the Sabbath. It's not a day or a rule..

Zipporah  posted on  2007-04-20   20:18:25 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Jesus was and IS the fulfillment of the Law

Many Old Testament scriptures relate that believers are to keep the seventh day Sabbath (forever it says) as a sign between them and God. And I don't want to get into a dispute about it either, but the above analysis of the Law being fulfilled by Jesus doesn't meet the "forever" requirement. The temple veil being torn and representing the end of the law requires some interpretation.

Keep the Sabbath forever as a sign between ye and me is straight forward and stands without reference to interpretation.

This has been an issue for debate for a long time and by many ... someone is right and someone is wrong.

noone222  posted on  2007-04-20   21:00:24 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Many Old Testament scriptures relate that believers are to keep the seventh day Sabbath (forever it says) as a sign between them and God. And I don't want to get into a dispute about it either, but the above analysis of the Law being fulfilled by Jesus doesn't meet the "forever" requirement. The temple veil being torn and representing the end of the law requires some interpretation.

Under the Law, a sinner could never approach or be in the presence of God....the veil between the Holy Place and Most Holy of Holies blocking them. Even the sacrifice given didn't buy access. The High Priest himself was a sinner and had to make sacrifice for himself before he could even take the nations' sacrifice into the Holy of Holies.

OTOH, Christ fulfilled completely the Law--he obeyed it heart and mind, and he became the sacrifice to cover or atone (die for) all sins, past, present, and future. At his death, the veil in the temple was torn apart which meant that individuals how had access to God through the Messiah. God looks at us through how he views Christ.

If the Law was still active, it would void what Christ has done. The Law was a type or picture or pattern of what was to come with the new covenant. The Israelites didn't obey the old, just rejecting GOd as their God; and hence, He would reject them as His people--for a time. I don't believe it is permanent rejection--at least not right now.

The 'old' doesn't replace the 'new'; it is the reverse. IIRC, it is Hebrews Chapter 8 that discusses the old decaying away because of the new covenant....and speaking of the Messiah in the process.

rowdee  posted on  2007-04-21   15:50:13 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

There are very viable scriptural based conclusions that can be drawn to support both sides of this New/Old Covenant equation.

1st. One should ask whether scriptures were susceptible to corruption by anyone with an agenda. The answer is obvious and Constantine made it blatantly apparent in 325 AD. [Then we should consider whether the possibility of corruption was greater with respect to the Old Testament scriptures or the New Testament scriptures. When New Testament Scripture causes God to be a liar, shortsighted or less than perfect they should be investigated. All scripture should be reconcilable with other scripture ... precept upon precept, line upon line.

My studies have led me to think that the Old Testament scriptures had been around far too long and there were too many copies available for them to be corrupted to a large degree. Jesus quoted from Isaiah, the Book of Isaiah was found completely intact at Qum Ram (Dead Sea Scrolls). No such evidence has ever been found to support the existence of the Book of Esther. That isn't to say the potential for their existence is impossible but I believe it is improbable and that Esther is a fraud.

2nd. Each of us is responsible individually for our own beliefs, and we can realize these through study and commentary of others. I think one lifetime is insufficient for accomplishing a clear and perfect understanding of God, God's Will, or our relevance to the equation. Yet, knowing this I am somewhat consumed by the quest for a better understanding of these things while others find the whole subject irrelevant.

My feeling about Sabbath is that God only has to say for ever once, but repeated the importance of Sabbath observance from the period of creation throughout all Old Testament Scripture. I don't think God ever said not to do it. I think there may be exceptions that are acceptable, but the wholesale change from Saturday to SUNday is a man made exception that is a corruption of what God described as a sign between thee and Me" for ever.

We are informed through scripture that men are liars, that they will make merchandise of our souls, that one will think to change the days and times of God etc., yet we allow men to alter our mindset through interpretation and for the sake of convenience. We go along to get along and that's exactly why this country is so fucked up. A little change here, a little change there and the next thing you know the country has been bankrupted by a bunch of crooked bankers that convinced us to quit the standard proscribed by God which is EQUAL WEIGHTS and MEASURES.

Do I have all the answers ? Nope. Is the Sabbath Saturday ? Yep. And I have developed a system for comprehending things for myself that has held up pretty well for me.

When comprehension of a subject requires miles of legalese and commentary it's corrupted. If it is straight forward and honest without the need to decipher and twist interpretation it's more likely true. It's K.I.S.S. for God's children. [Keep it simple stupid].

The importance of the TRUST factor can never be over-estimated. When we truly place 100% TRUST in God rather than a 50-50 split with man (government or preaching prostitutes), just in case God don't exist, we show our true colors and dis-belief. Until God's children stand up on their own two feet in opposition to every act against the laws of God they are serving a false god and living in fear ... when His instruction is for us to NEVER fear MEN who can only destroy the physical body.

I don't know that this response will solve anything at all. I wanted to respond without offending anyones sensibilities because I'm fully capable of being wrong. I try to limit the risk when it comes to offending the Creator of the Universe, and I think Sunday worship is offensive to the Creator because He said so plainly. Many will disagree, and my response is simply, OK.

Edited Comment:

Until we realize the righteousness of God's Laws and statutes and walk in them according to His law, we walk in utter blindness being led around by the nose completely controlled by that GREAT DECEIVER dressed up like a banker, preacher or a politician that acts as an agent of satan. We are the proximate cause of our own destruction because we ignore the Laws of God in order to bow our knee to (corruption) man.

noone222  posted on  2007-04-22   5:37:43 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

#54. To: noone222 (#53)

By and large, we agree. And I thank you for taking the time for laying our your position. I really agree that it takes more than a lifetime, or if ever, that we come to a complete understanding of God and His will. Many times as I do daily study, I have this big sense of urgency--as though I can't take it all in fast enough or soon enough.

Thanks again for responding.....more to chew on.

rowdee  posted on  2007-04-22 11:40:43 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Good thoughts - thanks.

Lod  posted on  2007-04-22 11:45:47 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

My feeling about Sabbath is that God only has to say for ever once, but repeated the importance of Sabbath observance from the period of creation throughout all Old Testament Scripture. I don't think God ever said not to do it. I think there may be exceptions that are acceptable, but the wholesale change from Saturday to SUNday is a man made exception that is a corruption of what God described as a sign between thee and Me" for ever.

Excellent post.

intotheabyss  posted on  2007-04-22 19:14:20 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

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