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Title: Biblical Question
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Published: Apr 20, 2007
Author: KJV
Post Date: 2007-04-20 14:35:03 by intotheabyss
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Views: 1860
Comments: 124
I was wondering about Mathew 5:18-19. 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. When you read the 4Th commandment it says: KJV - 8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. My question is: Why don't most churches worship on Saturday and why do most people feel compelled to use Sunday (the day of sun worshipers) as a day of worship and rest? When the bible seems to me to be very clear on this. In Jesus's own words: (one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law) Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven
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#71. To: AnyNameOriginal (#68)
Jesus says that until all pass away and fulfilled (and it is not his death and resurrection on the cross) nothing should be taken from the commandments (10 and otherwise). You're right. His death and resurrection did NOT fulfill ALL. There are many prophesies which have YET to BE fulfilled. Thus the Law still stands in full force and effect. Funny how so many people seem to have a major problem understanding a simple little word like all. OR ignore it when it comes from the teachings of the Messiah Himself. They tend to want to "interpret" everything. 2Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
No matter how noble the objectives of a government; if it blurs decency and kindness, cheapens human life, and breeds ill will and suspicion - it is an EVIL government. Eric Hoffer
As long as so-called Christians are willing to accept the "if you believe in Jesus you're saved" or "once saved always saved" theories, violations of the fundamental constructs that promote a harmonious social structure will be undermined because the blank check covering all wrong doings will be abused. Editor's Note: Satan "believes" in Jesus !
2Pe 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
hello, abbynormal, welcome to 4. ;)
Well if you accept mythology of the virgin birth, rising from the dead and so on - it's not much of a stretch.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
As I posted earlier, this bothered me as a child, but then in Sunday School I learned a little more. Do you really think you're going to stumble across something new, after 2,000 years? http://www.carm.org/diff/Matt12_40.htm The Jewish day was measured from sun down to sun down. If Jesus was in the grave for three 24 hour periods, then He could not have been raised on the third day because the third day had not yet been completed. He would have to be raised on fourth day for three 24 hour periods to have been completed and that wouldn't make sense to then say He was raised on the third day. So, what is going on? starts at sundown on Thu.. Crucifixion Sabbath He rose The solution is simple when we learn that according to Jewish custom any part of a day, however small, is included as part of a full day.1 "Since the Jews reckoned part of a day as a full day, the “three days and three nights” could permit a Friday crucifixion."2 This phenomena is exemplified in scripture in the book of Esther. "Go, assemble all the Jews who are found in Susa, and fast for me; do not eat or drink for three days, night or day. I and my maidens also will fast in the same way," (Esther 4:16 ). Then, in Esther 5:1 it says, "Now it came about on the third day that Esther put on her royal robes and stood in the inner court of the king’s palace in front of the king’s rooms, and the king was sitting on his royal throne in the throne room, opposite the entrance to the palace." We can see that even though the three days and nights had not been completed, Esther went in to see the King on the third day even though she said to fast for three days and nights. We see that "on the third day" is equivalent to "after three days." Additionally, Mark 8:31 says, "And He began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders and the chief priests and the scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again." Yet, 1 Cor. 15:4 says, "and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures." Also, Luke 24:5-7, "and as the women were terrified and bowed their faces to the ground, the men said to them, "Why do you seek the living One among the dead? 6"He is not here, but He has risen. Remember how He spoke to you while He was still in Galilee, 7saying that the Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again." Here we can see that "after three days" is equivalent to mean "on the third day." Therefore, we can see that because of the Jewish usage of counting any part of a day as the whole of the day, the term "three days and nights" is idiomatic and not literal. "The line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes nor between parties either — but right through the human heart." — Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
That may be so, but the issue is about the "commandments" not the "law". 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least COMMANDMENTS, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
It was a narrow escape. If the sheep had been created first, man would have been a plagiarism. -- Mark Twain No group of professionals meets except to conspire against the public at large. -- Mark Twain You can find the time in Revelations 21. Amen! You can also find several references to people being saved in Revelations based on their "faithfullness to the COMMANDMENTS". How much more do we need to spell it out for certain people.
It was a narrow escape. If the sheep had been created first, man would have been a plagiarism. -- Mark Twain No group of professionals meets except to conspire against the public at large. -- Mark Twain Agreed. I do not believe the Bible is the book most people think it is. Much of the Old Testament is stolen from other texts in the Egypt to Mesopotamian areas, and much of the New Testament is stolen from those same texts, or taken from Eastern allegories. There are other mythical heroes who were presented as being very similar to Jesus, right down to the virgin birth and the resurrection. If someone wishes to follow the teachings of Jesus, I think that is great. Real or not, his teachings are good guideposts. I find discussions about whether God cares about Sunday or Saturday to be immensely comical. But if one is going to read the text and declare what is to be done based upon the text, it's clearly SATURDAY, not Sunday that Christians should stay home and not do any work or such.
That's part of the reason I brought this up. I listened to so many Christians use the bible to defend this point of that and claim that it is their guide. But on this issue (4th commandment) so many want to twist the text to fit their lifestyle when this issue is more spelled out then many of the other issues they use based on scripture. Oh, there are many discrepancies: Pious Fraud in Translation Let's take a look at the very first words of the book of Genesis. Note very carefully that the Hebrew culture, at the time of this writing, was not monotheistic, but rather, polytheistic. Will your priest, minister or preacher tell you that? No. But you can find out for yourself with a simple dictionary. The Hebrew word for God is el; the plural is elohim, gods. What is the first sentence in the Bible? "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth" (Gen. 1:1). Here is Genesis 1:1 in Hebrew (transliterated into the Latin alphabet, of course): "Bereshith bara elohim," etc., "In-beginning created (the) gods (the) heavens and (the) earth." In the same chapter the word "elohim" (gods) is used thirty times., Those gods are the ones who created the 'universe' in 6 days. To clarify, here is the translation of the Hebrew text of Genesis 1. Notice how Jewish and Christian 'fathers' don't bother to tell you what the original text says. They would like you to believe that a single god created everything. But, they messed up big time and actually translated it properly. In plain English, the translation reads 'let us make man in our image': Here are three examples of the Hebrew plural gods mentioned in Genesis: 1. "And- said elohim (gods), let-US-make man (adam) in-image-OUR, after-likeness-OUR" (1:26). 2. And when "adam" had eaten of the forbidden fruit of the tree of knowledge, "the Lord God" said, "Behold, the-man has become like one of US, to know good and evil" (3:27). 3. And when the Tower of Babel was being built: "The Lord [Heb. Yahveh] said ... Come, let US go down," etc. Elohim When speaking of the Hebrew deity, Yahveh, elohim, (gods) is used in the Hebrew texts, The plural elohim is used 2570 times. It is always falsely translated to the singular "God", thus falsely making us believe that this text was written at a time when the Hebrew people were monothestic, when it clearly is the case (written at least 2570 times, no less!) that they WERE NOT. In the three Genesis verses above, there are three different designations of the Hebrew deity or deities: elohim, (gods), falsely translated "God": Lord God (Heb. Yahveh-elohim); and Lord (Heb. Yahveh). Yahveh is the proper name of the Hebrew God, which, in English, is Jehovah. Yahveh-elohim is a Hebrew "construct-form" which is translated to "Yahveh-of- the-gods." Invariably these personal names were falsely translated "Lord" and "Lord God," respectively, for purposes of pious fraud. First Man, First Woman There was no first man "Adam," according to the Hebrew text. The word adam in Hebrew is a common noun, meaning man in a generic sense and in Genesis 1:26, it states: "And elohim (gods) said, Let us make adam (man)"; and so "elohim created ha- adam (the-man); ... male and female created he them" (1: 27). In the second creation story, where man is first made alone: "Yahveh formed ha-adam (the-man) out of the dust of ha-adamah-the ground" (2:7). Man is called in Hebrew adam because he was formed out of adamah, the ground; just as in Latin man is called homo because he was formed from humus, the ground. Early Christian father Lactantius stated it as 'homo ex humo' ('man from the ground', or 'dust' as it commonly stated today). The forging of the name Adam from the Hebrew noun adam into a mythical proper name Adam, was after the so-called Exodus. The fraud in the forging of fictitious genealogies from "in the beginning" to Father Abraham. And this wasn't done by Christians, but rather by early Hebrew priests. Nonetheless, early Christians took this deception and used it for their own newly forged religion.
It was a narrow escape. If the sheep had been created first, man would have been a plagiarism. -- Mark Twain No group of professionals meets except to conspire against the public at large. -- Mark Twain Some of my favorite themes that many Christians never absorb ... I'm still waiting to meet the Christian that follows these: *turn the other cheeck *judge not that you be not judged *do unto others as you would have them do unto you *do not pray in public *do not boast of your alms *visit those in prison (99.99% of Christians are going to hell on this one!) *clothe the naked *feed the hungry No, they're busy buying TV stations, building monstrous churches and generally wallowing in delusional self-righteousness. Now watch all the "Christians" form a lynch mob. Not much has changed. Religion is the opiate of the masses, and they'll kill you for messing with their stash.
A lot of that is going on in the Bible belt. My friend, who is from Syria (yes he is Islamic) and I had a conversation about what would happen if Jesus showed up today but did not tell people his name. Well we both came to the conclusion that as soon as he started teaching people his true teachings he would be shunned by most including most of the preachers. Because his teachings would not allow for their lifestyle and would not fit "I'm a believer and that's all I need" mentality. Don't get me started on how often Jesus mentions how "he would not know you" if you do not do the "works" associated with the "belief".
It was a narrow escape. If the sheep had been created first, man would have been a plagiarism. -- Mark Twain No group of professionals meets except to conspire against the public at large. -- Mark Twain Hell, I'm convinced he would be shunned more by the so called Christians today than he was by the public at large 2000 years ago.
It was a narrow escape. If the sheep had been created first, man would have been a plagiarism. -- Mark Twain No group of professionals meets except to conspire against the public at large. -- Mark Twain If Jesus returned today and did not announce himself, simply started teaching as he always did, he'd be ARRESTED at almost every Protestant church in America, as well as at every Catholic Church, and every Mormon church.
If JC showed up today, complete with the miracles, his contempt for self- righteous folks, his embracing of non-violence and his eschewing of material wealth, make no mistake. He would be crucified all over again.
It is not a Justice System. It is just a system.
It probably would be that bad. My friend's and my conversation also covered the "second coming" and we both wondered if it would even happen due to the above degradation of his teachings.
It was a narrow escape. If the sheep had been created first, man would have been a plagiarism. -- Mark Twain No group of professionals meets except to conspire against the public at large. -- Mark Twain This, IMHO is the biggest achilles heel of our society.
It was a narrow escape. If the sheep had been created first, man would have been a plagiarism. -- Mark Twain No group of professionals meets except to conspire against the public at large. -- Mark Twain This, IMHO is the biggest achilles heel of our society. Well, like the poor, we will always have the wealthy with us. Inequity is human. For myself, I'm about tired of the uber-rich using their money to subvert our democracy. I'm starting to favor a Russian style revolution over an American style one.
It is not a Justice System. It is just a system.
Amen! (This Amen may be all I need to do to end up on the red/blue? list for my encampment when the Feds push for their full agenda. You aren't a provocateur are you?) Oh well I don't really give a sh_t anymore. If we are that far gone, f--- it.
It was a narrow escape. If the sheep had been created first, man would have been a plagiarism. -- Mark Twain No group of professionals meets except to conspire against the public at large. -- Mark Twain ROTFLOL! ROTFLOL! I have beaten you now, intotheabyss! Just as I defeated the SKYDRIFTER and Nolu_Chan! Bwahahahaha! None dare to challenge me! I am BeAChooser! ROTFLOL! ROTFLOL!
It is not a Justice System. It is just a system.
Mad as a hatter I'd venture to say.
It was a narrow escape. If the sheep had been created first, man would have been a plagiarism. -- Mark Twain No group of professionals meets except to conspire against the public at large. -- Mark Twain Ah, but if I were a provocateur, wouldn't I pretend to be mad to lure you in and dispel your fear? Of course, I wouldn't tell you this if I were an agent provocateur, but then if I were a really smart agent provocateur I would know that I wouldn't tell you this, so I would tell you this just to lull you into a false sense of security about my not being an agent provocateur, but then if I then explained this whole thing I couldn't be an agent provocateur, but I would know that, so I might just explain the whole thing to put you off your guard... "Paranoia is a survival trait in a decidership." -bluedogtxn
It is not a Justice System. It is just a system.
I'm really the easter bunny.
It was a narrow escape. If the sheep had been created first, man would have been a plagiarism. -- Mark Twain No group of professionals meets except to conspire against the public at large. -- Mark Twain You're on my list, Mr. "bunny". ROTFLOL!
It is not a Justice System. It is just a system.
Great post ! I'm at lunch otherwise I'd go on and on about it ! Fortunately for everyone ... I gotta go.
2Pe 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: Dying of old age is about as exciting a prospect as suicide by cigarettes.
Thanks
It was a narrow escape. If the sheep had been created first, man would have been a plagiarism. -- Mark Twain No group of professionals meets except to conspire against the public at large. -- Mark Twain Still is - for all of us, even if we don't want to recognize it as such. I'm not buying it. The Messiah SPECIFICALLY stated 3 days and 3 nights... The ONLY way to work that would have been if the crucifixion happened EARLY Friday - which would have been AFTER sundown Thursday and BEFORE sunrise.
No matter how noble the objectives of a government; if it blurs decency and kindness, cheapens human life, and breeds ill will and suspicion - it is an EVIL government. Eric Hoffer
Also from the link in my post above. The chart explains it.
"The line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes nor between parties either — but right through the human heart." — Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
But only after they had water boarded him a couple of dozen times, and had a secret "confession" wherein he admitted he was in on 9-11.
How much more do we need to spell it out for certain people. It probably can't be done. Some folks would like to think that all they need to do is pray in Jesus' name, or do some good deeds like helping the little old lady down the street once in a while, and they'll get a "just reward". Course, they DIDN'T get that from Scripture (even if they CLAIM they did). Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. I don't know what folks figure "doing the will of God" is, but for me I'm thinking it must be to keep His Commandments Statutes and Judgments. After all, we were told that 172 times in Scripture. You don't just tell folks to do something 172 times unless it's damned important to you that they do it. If the entire world practiced the 759 Commandments, Statutes and Judgments outlined in Scripture, there would be NO NEED whatsoever for ANY other laws PERIOD AND we would all live happier healthier lives with so much more liberty than we have now we wouldn't know how to act...
No matter how noble the objectives of a government; if it blurs decency and kindness, cheapens human life, and breeds ill will and suspicion - it is an EVIL government. Eric Hoffer
*turn the other cheeck *judge not that you be not judged Read futher instead of paraphrasing the quotes. You will notice that "Turn the other cheek" is for an insult, not a direct assualt. Which cheek was hit is a good hint. One might be able to walk off from an insult, but not from a direct attack. You have messed up the last quote so bad it is hard to even start. The person who is not to judge is the hypocrite. Someone had a good write up on that the other day, wish I had saved it, but alas I didn't. Needless to say, twisting the words around, people have made this into "judge not and you will not be judged" phrase. It simply isn't so. It does say you will be judged with basically the same measuring stick you use, but not that you will not be judged. All in all you have made works the means to heaven, and Jesus drilled the priest for just that mentality. There is nothing you can do that "works" you way to heaven if you don't go through the "blood" first.
Thanks, but I'm familiar with the text and what it means, and have been for some time. I do enjoy the efforts of the indoctrinated to explain their curious beliefs, however, so thanks for sharing. Here's your Jesus, the fictional hero with a dozen different names in the ancient world. Jesus vs Horus
LOL, I tried to register AbbyNormal as my name , but messed up and deleted my durn Yahoo mail message to register it. So I went to backup name number 3... So you can call me AbbyNormal or just AnyNameOriginal... either will work..
This tape also discusses how Jesus was an allegory, like several other ancient myths, the tale of the sun moving throughout the year. Even the quotes attributed to Jesus are found in documents predating him over 2000 years. Astrotheology & Shamanism
Thanks, I will put that in the same circular file I put my moldy left over food in, right before I throw it away. I don't put garbage in my head, I know what you put in often comes out of your mouth, but thanks for the offer.
You're worshipping an ancient allegory for the sun's annual trip across the skies. Most of the key teachings of Jesus were lifted verbatim from either the Mesopotamian Epic of Gilgamesh or the Egyptian Book of the Dead.
I find it difficult to deny the prophecy and instruction provided by scripture; while the many variations of comparable religions / myths / belief systems and teachings are all too obvious to those that inquire deeper than the slop handed out at the 501(C)(3) churches. It's too easy and actually careless to attack others "religious" orientation, especially if it serves no other purpose than to exalt ones own intellect. One thing's for certain, we're all immersed in an evil situation that continues to worsen daily. It'd be unusual if people didn't seek spiritual solutions in times like these, and everyone doesn't learn at the same time or at the same rate of speed. Callous disregard for others beliefs isn't expedient, it more likely serves to inflate ones ego at the expense of unifying a populace that really needs to align against evil, now. Sometimes the most astute observations are made by the simplest of minds.
2Pe 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: Dying of old age is about as exciting a prospect as suicide by cigarettes.
Sometimes the most astute observations are made by the simplest of minds. If that's true, then you mind must be becoming simpler and simpler (because your posted observations are most astute, indeed). At the risk of derailing a humble, simple mind posting sublime nuggets of wisdom with the soul-blinding sin of pride, kudos, noone222.
Check out my blog, America, the Bushieful.
People who believe the Bible is the word of God seldom exhibit any spiritual qualities at all. They construct a paradigm with the help of some pseudo holy man, and live inside that paradigm, which is entirely fictitious. The Bible is a library of books written by men, compiled and edited by men, and used by men to control masses. Most of it was taken from earlier texts in the region. The seeker of knowledge doesn't stop with his preacher and what he says. I've noticed that those who insist others should respect their beliefs seldom respect the beliefs of others who do not worship their God. It's a one way street, like most of the things the religious claim they live and believe. No one will kill you faster than an insulted Christian, which really tells the whole story, doesn't it?
From my observations I have to agree with your post, all too true. Religion too often brings out some very nasty human characteristics, and the the more religious, the less spiritual indeed seems to be the case.
Yes!
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestFor verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
#72. To: innieway (#71)
(Edited)
#73. To: AnyNameOriginal (#68)
#74. To: innieway (#70)
#75. To: innieway, noone222 (#70)
DAY 1 DAY2 DAY 3 THU
starts at
sundown on Wed.THU
ends at sundownFRI
FRI
ends at
sundownSAT
starts at sundown on Fri. SAT
ends at sundownSUN
starts at sundown on Sat.SUN
ends at sundown Night Day Night Day Night Day Night Day
#76. To: rowdee (#67)
The Law was more than the 10 Commandments. With the New Covenant, God's laws are written in our 'hearts' (our consciences).
#77. To: AnyNameOriginal, rowdee, Diana, innieway, noone222, robin (#68)
Jesus says that until all pass away and fulfilled (and it is not his death and resurrection on the cross) nothing should be taken from the commandments (10 and otherwise).
#78. To: intotheabyss (#66)
The really sad thing is so many good meaning people buy into some of these issues.
#79. To: Paul Revere (#78)
But if one is going to read the text and declare what is to be done based upon the text, it's clearly SATURDAY, not Sunday that Christians should stay home and not do any work or such.
#80. To: intotheabyss (#79)
#81. To: Paul Revere (#80)
delusional self-righteousness.
#82. To: All (#81)
#83. To: intotheabyss (#81)
Absolutely.
#84. To: intotheabyss (#82)
Hell, I'm convinced he would be shunned more by the so called Christians today than he was by the public at large 2000 years ago.
#85. To: Paul Revere (#83)
If Jesus returned today and did not announce himself, simply started teaching as he always did, he'd be ARRESTED at almost every Protestant church in America, as well as at every Catholic Church, and every Mormon church.
#86. To: bluedogtxn (#84)
his eschewing of material wealth,
#87. To: intotheabyss (#86)
his eschewing of material wealth,
#88. To: bluedogtxn (#87)
For myself, I'm about tired of the uber-rich using their money to subvert our democracy. I'm starting to favor a Russian style revolution over an American style one.
#89. To: intotheabyss (#88)
Amen! (This Amen may be all I need to do to end up on the red/blue? list for my encampment when the Feds push for their full agenda. You aren't a provocateur are you?)
#90. To: bluedogtxn (#89)
#91. To: intotheabyss (#90)
Mad as a hatter I'd venture to say.
#92. To: bluedogtxn (#91)
#93. To: intotheabyss (#92)
I'm really the easter bunny.
#94. To: intotheabyss (#79)
#95. To: noone222 (#94)
#96. To: robin (#75)
The Jewish day was measured from sun down to sun down.
The solution is simple when we learn that according to Jewish custom any part of a day, however small, is included as part of a full day.1 "Since the Jews reckoned part of a day as a full day, the “three days and three nights” could permit a Friday crucifixion.
#97. To: innieway (#96)
The solution is simple when we learn that according to Jewish custom any part of a day, however small, is included as part of a full day.1
#98. To: bluedogtxn (#84)
If JC showed up today, complete with the miracles, his contempt for self- righteous folks, his embracing of non-violence and his eschewing of material wealth, make no mistake. He would be crucified all over again.
#99. To: intotheabyss (#77)
You can also find several references to people being saved in Revelations based on their "faithfullness to the COMMANDMENTS".
#100. To: Paul Revere (#80)
I'm still waiting to meet the Christian that follows these:
#101. To: AnyNameOriginal (#100)
(Edited)
#102. To: christine (#73)
hello, abbynormal, welcome to 4. ;)
#103. To: AnyNameOriginal (#100)
(Edited)
#104. To: Paul Revere (#101)
Here's your Jesus, the fictional hero with a dozen different names
#105. To: AnyNameOriginal (#104)
(Edited)
#106. To: Paul Revere (#105)
#107. To: noone222 (#106)
Callous disregard for others beliefs isn't expedient, it more likely serves to inflate ones ego at the expense of unifying a populace that really needs to align against evil, now.
#108. To: noone222 (#106)
#109. To: Paul Revere (#108)
#110. To: bluedogtxn (#84)
If JC showed up today, complete with the miracles, his contempt for self- righteous folks, his embracing of non-violence and his eschewing of material wealth, make no mistake. He would be crucified all over again.
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