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Title: Biblical Question
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Published: Apr 20, 2007
Author: KJV
Post Date: 2007-04-20 14:35:03 by intotheabyss
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Views: 1767
Comments: 124
I was wondering about Mathew 5:18-19. 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. When you read the 4Th commandment it says: KJV - 8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. My question is: Why don't most churches worship on Saturday and why do most people feel compelled to use Sunday (the day of sun worshipers) as a day of worship and rest? When the bible seems to me to be very clear on this. In Jesus's own words: (one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law) Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven
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#48. To: noone222 (#47)
Sorry I disagree.. in a way.. of course we are to keep the Sabbath.. but not in the way you are meaning.. Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath.. therefore if we are 'in' Him .. everyday is the Sabbath .. we are keeping the Sabbath if we are called by His name.
Here ya go (from wikipedia): In the Greek original translated as English "jot and tittle" is found iota and keraia.[1] Iota is the smallest letter of the Greek alphabet (¹), but since only capitals were used at the time the Greek New Testament was written (™), it probably represents the Hebrew or Aramaic yodh (•7;) which is the smallest letter of the Hebrew and Aramaic alphabets. "Keraia" is a hook or serif, possibly accents in Greek but more likely hooks on Hebrew or Aramaic letters, (”9;) versus (•9;), or additional marks such as crowns (as Vulgate apex) found in the Torah, the Five Books of Moses, which are the first five books of the Jewish Bible. A keraia is also used in Greek numerals.
Check out my blog, America, the Bushieful.
The first mention of "new covenant" was in the "Old" Testament, not the "New", by the Jewish prophet Jeremiah (Jeremiah 31:31). He specifically says that God will make a "new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah."
Check out my blog, America, the Bushieful.
It's too bad the NT writer didn't share that particular detail with us. We can only guess at what he wrote, but whatever he wrote, was enough to stop a lynch mob cold. Powerful stuff, indeed.
Check out my blog, America, the Bushieful.
Under the Law, a sinner could never approach or be in the presence of God....the veil between the Holy Place and Most Holy of Holies blocking them. Even the sacrifice given didn't buy access. The High Priest himself was a sinner and had to make sacrifice for himself before he could even take the nations' sacrifice into the Holy of Holies. OTOH, Christ fulfilled completely the Law--he obeyed it heart and mind, and he became the sacrifice to cover or atone (die for) all sins, past, present, and future. At his death, the veil in the temple was torn apart which meant that individuals how had access to God through the Messiah. God looks at us through how he views Christ. If the Law was still active, it would void what Christ has done. The Law was a type or picture or pattern of what was to come with the new covenant. The Israelites didn't obey the old, just rejecting GOd as their God; and hence, He would reject them as His people--for a time. I don't believe it is permanent rejection--at least not right now. The 'old' doesn't replace the 'new'; it is the reverse. IIRC, it is Hebrews Chapter 8 that discusses the old decaying away because of the new covenant....and speaking of the Messiah in the process.
There are very viable scriptural based conclusions that can be drawn to support both sides of this New/Old Covenant equation. 1st. One should ask whether scriptures were susceptible to corruption by anyone with an agenda. The answer is obvious and Constantine made it blatantly apparent in 325 AD. [Then we should consider whether the possibility of corruption was greater with respect to the Old Testament scriptures or the New Testament scriptures. When New Testament Scripture causes God to be a liar, shortsighted or less than perfect they should be investigated. All scripture should be reconcilable with other scripture ... precept upon precept, line upon line. My studies have led me to think that the Old Testament scriptures had been around far too long and there were too many copies available for them to be corrupted to a large degree. Jesus quoted from Isaiah, the Book of Isaiah was found completely intact at Qum Ram (Dead Sea Scrolls). No such evidence has ever been found to support the existence of the Book of Esther. That isn't to say the potential for their existence is impossible but I believe it is improbable and that Esther is a fraud. 2nd. Each of us is responsible individually for our own beliefs, and we can realize these through study and commentary of others. I think one lifetime is insufficient for accomplishing a clear and perfect understanding of God, God's Will, or our relevance to the equation. Yet, knowing this I am somewhat consumed by the quest for a better understanding of these things while others find the whole subject irrelevant. My feeling about Sabbath is that God only has to say for ever once, but repeated the importance of Sabbath observance from the period of creation throughout all Old Testament Scripture. I don't think God ever said not to do it. I think there may be exceptions that are acceptable, but the wholesale change from Saturday to SUNday is a man made exception that is a corruption of what God described as a sign between thee and Me" for ever. We are informed through scripture that men are liars, that they will make merchandise of our souls, that one will think to change the days and times of God etc., yet we allow men to alter our mindset through interpretation and for the sake of convenience. We go along to get along and that's exactly why this country is so fucked up. A little change here, a little change there and the next thing you know the country has been bankrupted by a bunch of crooked bankers that convinced us to quit the standard proscribed by God which is EQUAL WEIGHTS and MEASURES. Do I have all the answers ? Nope. Is the Sabbath Saturday ? Yep. And I have developed a system for comprehending things for myself that has held up pretty well for me. When comprehension of a subject requires miles of legalese and commentary it's corrupted. If it is straight forward and honest without the need to decipher and twist interpretation it's more likely true. It's K.I.S.S. for God's children. [Keep it simple stupid]. The importance of the TRUST factor can never be over-estimated. When we truly place 100% TRUST in God rather than a 50-50 split with man (government or preaching prostitutes), just in case God don't exist, we show our true colors and dis-belief. Until God's children stand up on their own two feet in opposition to every act against the laws of God they are serving a false god and living in fear ... when His instruction is for us to NEVER fear MEN who can only destroy the physical body. I don't know that this response will solve anything at all. I wanted to respond without offending anyones sensibilities because I'm fully capable of being wrong. I try to limit the risk when it comes to offending the Creator of the Universe, and I think Sunday worship is offensive to the Creator because He said so plainly. Many will disagree, and my response is simply, OK. Edited Comment: Until we realize the righteousness of God's Laws and statutes and walk in them according to His law, we walk in utter blindness being led around by the nose completely controlled by that GREAT DECEIVER dressed up like a banker, preacher or a politician that acts as an agent of satan. We are the proximate cause of our own destruction because we ignore the Laws of God in order to bow our knee to (corruption) man.
14th Amendment / Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. [You have the right to remain silent, shut up and pay your taxes peasants ... hehehehehe].
By and large, we agree. And I thank you for taking the time for laying our your position. I really agree that it takes more than a lifetime, or if ever, that we come to a complete understanding of God and His will. Many times as I do daily study, I have this big sense of urgency--as though I can't take it all in fast enough or soon enough. Thanks again for responding.....more to chew on.
Good thoughts - thanks.
I'm not really worried which day is first or last on a calendar. The 4th commandment says: "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy." And most scholars agree that the Sabbath is Saturday
It was a narrow escape. If the sheep had been created first, man would have been a plagiarism. -- Mark Twain No group of professionals meets except to conspire against the public at large. -- Mark Twain The Pope is a Nazi, and the Catholic Church is the largest crime institution in the world. I tend to agree.
It was a narrow escape. If the sheep had been created first, man would have been a plagiarism. -- Mark Twain No group of professionals meets except to conspire against the public at large. -- Mark Twain which is why it's always been such a fascist and criminal organization. The Pope is a Nazi, and the Catholic Church is the largest crime institution in the world. I tend to agree. Thanks. I don't how anyone can read the teachings of Jesus and think the Catholic church has anything to do with his teachings. As a crime organization, it spans 17 centuries of stealing from the poor and fellating the powerful.
That may be true. Although that does not diminish the case that Saturday is the day intended for rest and worship. There is an official Vatican document basically bragging about the pontiff’s power since the Catholic Church was able to change that day to Sunday.
It was a narrow escape. If the sheep had been created first, man would have been a plagiarism. -- Mark Twain No group of professionals meets except to conspire against the public at large. -- Mark Twain It's SUNday because Constantine worshipped Sol Invictis, the sun god. That's also why Dec 25th is the birth of Jesus. It's the day the ancients believed the sun was astronomically reborn each year.
There is nothing about sacrifice in the 10 commandments. And I'm sure "Thou shall not kill" as well as many other commandments are still quite valid. In Revelations: "those who "keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ will be saved?????????????? We all know as well as Jesus knew that Revelations would occur AFTER his death/resurrection. So Jesus knew the commandment were still valid, remember - "Till heaven and earth pass" I think a lot of people have trouble seeing the simple logic in this due to the Dogma they have been fed for so many years by the Baal churches.
It was a narrow escape. If the sheep had been created first, man would have been a plagiarism. -- Mark Twain No group of professionals meets except to conspire against the public at large. -- Mark Twain "You may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. I'm glad to see some awake souls on this thread.
It was a narrow escape. If the sheep had been created first, man would have been a plagiarism. -- Mark Twain No group of professionals meets except to conspire against the public at large. -- Mark Twain What kind of worship does the Saviour call that which is not according to God's commandments? "But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrine the commandments of men." Matt. 15:9
It was a narrow escape. If the sheep had been created first, man would have been a plagiarism. -- Mark Twain No group of professionals meets except to conspire against the public at large. -- Mark Twain You're right. Let's see what else the Catholic church pushes that has no scriptural basis: 1. Idolizing and worshipping Mary 2. Making and using graven images for worship 3. Showing alms before men 4. Public prayer 5. Child baptism 6. Sunday as day of worship And it goes on and on ....
Excellent post.
It was a narrow escape. If the sheep had been created first, man would have been a plagiarism. -- Mark Twain No group of professionals meets except to conspire against the public at large. -- Mark Twain The really sad thing is so many good meaning people buy into some of these issues.
It was a narrow escape. If the sheep had been created first, man would have been a plagiarism. -- Mark Twain No group of professionals meets except to conspire against the public at large. -- Mark Twain The Law was more than the 10 Commandments. With the New Covenant, God's laws are written in our 'hearts' (our consciences).
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Jesus says that until all pass away and fulfilled (and it is not his death and resurrection on the cross) nothing should be taken from the commandments (10 and otherwise). You can find the time in Revelations 21. Jesus had problems with people wanting to change the law to suit their needs, he jumped on hypocrites for changing the law that said if their children cursed their parents they should be put to death. The Hypocrites said basically, perhaps these children of ours would benefit them later and disobeyed the law. Harsh as it may sound, Jesus knew allowing children to curse parents would cause more problems than society could later stand (see how strained our society is now). We now all reap the results. People now days say it is ok to kill unborn innocent babies, it is ok to do this and that ect... Now days people preach that breaking the Sabbath is ok, Walmart shopping is more a convience now. People now days say Jesus made a new convenent with people, but it just ain't so. Yes, you can be saved, but you are still to practice the "law". Levels of heaven.... lol... don't get weird on me... just a word of "fine job there AbbyNormal" would be enough to last me the first 10,000 years in heaven.. but I am sure it takes 10,000 years before you get over how awesome the place is anyway and actually say something. Jesus wants us to do his will, and teaching others that the "law" is no more might get you a "least" award.
(Mark 7:9-13) is a good start.
Like going to a hotel where they charge the sign out day as a full day. Mostly Protestants who forgot Christian history have to re-learn all this stuff over again since they make up their religious traditions as they go along. There you go again Destro - spreading falsehoods and backing up the teachings of man as opposed to what the Scriptures actually say. "Like going to a hotel"... What a load of horseshit. In this instance you are going against what the Messiah Himself told us. I suppose He was LYING though... Matthew 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: 40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Friday - day Edited to include echo5sierra
No matter how noble the objectives of a government; if it blurs decency and kindness, cheapens human life, and breeds ill will and suspicion - it is an EVIL government. Eric Hoffer
Jesus says that until all pass away and fulfilled (and it is not his death and resurrection on the cross) nothing should be taken from the commandments (10 and otherwise). You're right. His death and resurrection did NOT fulfill ALL. There are many prophesies which have YET to BE fulfilled. Thus the Law still stands in full force and effect. Funny how so many people seem to have a major problem understanding a simple little word like all. OR ignore it when it comes from the teachings of the Messiah Himself. They tend to want to "interpret" everything. 2Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
No matter how noble the objectives of a government; if it blurs decency and kindness, cheapens human life, and breeds ill will and suspicion - it is an EVIL government. Eric Hoffer
As long as so-called Christians are willing to accept the "if you believe in Jesus you're saved" or "once saved always saved" theories, violations of the fundamental constructs that promote a harmonious social structure will be undermined because the blank check covering all wrong doings will be abused. Editor's Note: Satan "believes" in Jesus !
2Pe 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
hello, abbynormal, welcome to 4. ;)
Well if you accept mythology of the virgin birth, rising from the dead and so on - it's not much of a stretch.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
As I posted earlier, this bothered me as a child, but then in Sunday School I learned a little more. Do you really think you're going to stumble across something new, after 2,000 years? http://www.carm.org/diff/Matt12_40.htm The Jewish day was measured from sun down to sun down. If Jesus was in the grave for three 24 hour periods, then He could not have been raised on the third day because the third day had not yet been completed. He would have to be raised on fourth day for three 24 hour periods to have been completed and that wouldn't make sense to then say He was raised on the third day. So, what is going on? starts at sundown on Thu.. Crucifixion Sabbath He rose The solution is simple when we learn that according to Jewish custom any part of a day, however small, is included as part of a full day.1 "Since the Jews reckoned part of a day as a full day, the “three days and three nights” could permit a Friday crucifixion."2 This phenomena is exemplified in scripture in the book of Esther. "Go, assemble all the Jews who are found in Susa, and fast for me; do not eat or drink for three days, night or day. I and my maidens also will fast in the same way," (Esther 4:16 ). Then, in Esther 5:1 it says, "Now it came about on the third day that Esther put on her royal robes and stood in the inner court of the king’s palace in front of the king’s rooms, and the king was sitting on his royal throne in the throne room, opposite the entrance to the palace." We can see that even though the three days and nights had not been completed, Esther went in to see the King on the third day even though she said to fast for three days and nights. We see that "on the third day" is equivalent to "after three days." Additionally, Mark 8:31 says, "And He began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders and the chief priests and the scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again." Yet, 1 Cor. 15:4 says, "and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures." Also, Luke 24:5-7, "and as the women were terrified and bowed their faces to the ground, the men said to them, "Why do you seek the living One among the dead? 6"He is not here, but He has risen. Remember how He spoke to you while He was still in Galilee, 7saying that the Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again." Here we can see that "after three days" is equivalent to mean "on the third day." Therefore, we can see that because of the Jewish usage of counting any part of a day as the whole of the day, the term "three days and nights" is idiomatic and not literal. "The line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes nor between parties either — but right through the human heart." — Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
That may be so, but the issue is about the "commandments" not the "law". 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least COMMANDMENTS, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
It was a narrow escape. If the sheep had been created first, man would have been a plagiarism. -- Mark Twain No group of professionals meets except to conspire against the public at large. -- Mark Twain You can find the time in Revelations 21. Amen! You can also find several references to people being saved in Revelations based on their "faithfullness to the COMMANDMENTS". How much more do we need to spell it out for certain people.
It was a narrow escape. If the sheep had been created first, man would have been a plagiarism. -- Mark Twain No group of professionals meets except to conspire against the public at large. -- Mark Twain Agreed. I do not believe the Bible is the book most people think it is. Much of the Old Testament is stolen from other texts in the Egypt to Mesopotamian areas, and much of the New Testament is stolen from those same texts, or taken from Eastern allegories. There are other mythical heroes who were presented as being very similar to Jesus, right down to the virgin birth and the resurrection. If someone wishes to follow the teachings of Jesus, I think that is great. Real or not, his teachings are good guideposts. I find discussions about whether God cares about Sunday or Saturday to be immensely comical. But if one is going to read the text and declare what is to be done based upon the text, it's clearly SATURDAY, not Sunday that Christians should stay home and not do any work or such.
That's part of the reason I brought this up. I listened to so many Christians use the bible to defend this point of that and claim that it is their guide. But on this issue (4th commandment) so many want to twist the text to fit their lifestyle when this issue is more spelled out then many of the other issues they use based on scripture. Oh, there are many discrepancies: Pious Fraud in Translation Let's take a look at the very first words of the book of Genesis. Note very carefully that the Hebrew culture, at the time of this writing, was not monotheistic, but rather, polytheistic. Will your priest, minister or preacher tell you that? No. But you can find out for yourself with a simple dictionary. The Hebrew word for God is el; the plural is elohim, gods. What is the first sentence in the Bible? "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth" (Gen. 1:1). Here is Genesis 1:1 in Hebrew (transliterated into the Latin alphabet, of course): "Bereshith bara elohim," etc., "In-beginning created (the) gods (the) heavens and (the) earth." In the same chapter the word "elohim" (gods) is used thirty times., Those gods are the ones who created the 'universe' in 6 days. To clarify, here is the translation of the Hebrew text of Genesis 1. Notice how Jewish and Christian 'fathers' don't bother to tell you what the original text says. They would like you to believe that a single god created everything. But, they messed up big time and actually translated it properly. In plain English, the translation reads 'let us make man in our image': Here are three examples of the Hebrew plural gods mentioned in Genesis: 1. "And- said elohim (gods), let-US-make man (adam) in-image-OUR, after-likeness-OUR" (1:26). 2. And when "adam" had eaten of the forbidden fruit of the tree of knowledge, "the Lord God" said, "Behold, the-man has become like one of US, to know good and evil" (3:27). 3. And when the Tower of Babel was being built: "The Lord [Heb. Yahveh] said ... Come, let US go down," etc. Elohim When speaking of the Hebrew deity, Yahveh, elohim, (gods) is used in the Hebrew texts, The plural elohim is used 2570 times. It is always falsely translated to the singular "God", thus falsely making us believe that this text was written at a time when the Hebrew people were monothestic, when it clearly is the case (written at least 2570 times, no less!) that they WERE NOT. In the three Genesis verses above, there are three different designations of the Hebrew deity or deities: elohim, (gods), falsely translated "God": Lord God (Heb. Yahveh-elohim); and Lord (Heb. Yahveh). Yahveh is the proper name of the Hebrew God, which, in English, is Jehovah. Yahveh-elohim is a Hebrew "construct-form" which is translated to "Yahveh-of- the-gods." Invariably these personal names were falsely translated "Lord" and "Lord God," respectively, for purposes of pious fraud. First Man, First Woman There was no first man "Adam," according to the Hebrew text. The word adam in Hebrew is a common noun, meaning man in a generic sense and in Genesis 1:26, it states: "And elohim (gods) said, Let us make adam (man)"; and so "elohim created ha- adam (the-man); ... male and female created he them" (1: 27). In the second creation story, where man is first made alone: "Yahveh formed ha-adam (the-man) out of the dust of ha-adamah-the ground" (2:7). Man is called in Hebrew adam because he was formed out of adamah, the ground; just as in Latin man is called homo because he was formed from humus, the ground. Early Christian father Lactantius stated it as 'homo ex humo' ('man from the ground', or 'dust' as it commonly stated today). The forging of the name Adam from the Hebrew noun adam into a mythical proper name Adam, was after the so-called Exodus. The fraud in the forging of fictitious genealogies from "in the beginning" to Father Abraham. And this wasn't done by Christians, but rather by early Hebrew priests. Nonetheless, early Christians took this deception and used it for their own newly forged religion.
It was a narrow escape. If the sheep had been created first, man would have been a plagiarism. -- Mark Twain No group of professionals meets except to conspire against the public at large. -- Mark Twain Some of my favorite themes that many Christians never absorb ... I'm still waiting to meet the Christian that follows these: *turn the other cheeck *judge not that you be not judged *do unto others as you would have them do unto you *do not pray in public *do not boast of your alms *visit those in prison (99.99% of Christians are going to hell on this one!) *clothe the naked *feed the hungry No, they're busy buying TV stations, building monstrous churches and generally wallowing in delusional self-righteousness. Now watch all the "Christians" form a lynch mob. Not much has changed. Religion is the opiate of the masses, and they'll kill you for messing with their stash.
A lot of that is going on in the Bible belt. My friend, who is from Syria (yes he is Islamic) and I had a conversation about what would happen if Jesus showed up today but did not tell people his name. Well we both came to the conclusion that as soon as he started teaching people his true teachings he would be shunned by most including most of the preachers. Because his teachings would not allow for their lifestyle and would not fit "I'm a believer and that's all I need" mentality. Don't get me started on how often Jesus mentions how "he would not know you" if you do not do the "works" associated with the "belief".
It was a narrow escape. If the sheep had been created first, man would have been a plagiarism. -- Mark Twain No group of professionals meets except to conspire against the public at large. -- Mark Twain Hell, I'm convinced he would be shunned more by the so called Christians today than he was by the public at large 2000 years ago.
It was a narrow escape. If the sheep had been created first, man would have been a plagiarism. -- Mark Twain No group of professionals meets except to conspire against the public at large. -- Mark Twain If Jesus returned today and did not announce himself, simply started teaching as he always did, he'd be ARRESTED at almost every Protestant church in America, as well as at every Catholic Church, and every Mormon church.
If JC showed up today, complete with the miracles, his contempt for self- righteous folks, his embracing of non-violence and his eschewing of material wealth, make no mistake. He would be crucified all over again.
It is not a Justice System. It is just a system.
It probably would be that bad. My friend's and my conversation also covered the "second coming" and we both wondered if it would even happen due to the above degradation of his teachings.
It was a narrow escape. If the sheep had been created first, man would have been a plagiarism. -- Mark Twain No group of professionals meets except to conspire against the public at large. -- Mark Twain This, IMHO is the biggest achilles heel of our society.
It was a narrow escape. If the sheep had been created first, man would have been a plagiarism. -- Mark Twain No group of professionals meets except to conspire against the public at large. -- Mark Twain This, IMHO is the biggest achilles heel of our society. Well, like the poor, we will always have the wealthy with us. Inequity is human. For myself, I'm about tired of the uber-rich using their money to subvert our democracy. I'm starting to favor a Russian style revolution over an American style one.
It is not a Justice System. It is just a system.
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#49. To: Diana (#35)
What is a jot and what is a tittle?
#50. To: robin (#15)
I was unaware there is a Jewish "New Covenant";
#51. To: Neil McIver (#22)
I've heard it claimed that what he was writing in the sand during the time they were about to stone her may have been the sins they all committed, and they realized it was hypocritical for them to stone her when they had their own sins.
#52. To: noone222 (#47)
Many Old Testament scriptures relate that believers are to keep the seventh day Sabbath (forever it says) as a sign between them and God. And I don't want to get into a dispute about it either, but the above analysis of the Law being fulfilled by Jesus doesn't meet the "forever" requirement. The temple veil being torn and representing the end of the law requires some interpretation.
#53. To: rowdee (#52)
(Edited)
#54. To: noone222 (#53)
#55. To: noone222 (#53)
#56. To: Neil McIver, robin (#21)
#57. To: Paul Revere (#26)
which is why it's always been such a fascist and criminal organization.
#58. To: intotheabyss (#57)
To: Paul Revere
#59. To: bluedogtxn, Paul Revere (#33)
The new covenant says that even though we are condemned, we can obtain mercy, or leniency or grace if you will, by having our criminal defense attorney Christ take up our case.
#60. To: intotheabyss (#59)
#61. To: rowdee, robin, Destro, Arator, Neil McIver, Paul Revere, ..., Ada, bluedogtxn, lodwick, Diana, Itisa1mosttoolate, Zipporah, (#37)
Once Christ died, the Law was done. We no longer have to do this sacrifice stuff...the price was already paid.
#62. To: Itisa1mosttoolate, Paul Revere (#40)
The Jews, the REAL Jews, not the ZIONISTS, worship and recognize Saturday as the Sabbath.
#63. To: rowdee, robin, Destro, Arator, Neil McIver, Paul Revere, ..., Ada, bluedogtxn, lodwick, Diana, Itisa1mosttoolate, Zipporah, (#61)
#64. To: intotheabyss (#62)
#65. To: noone222 (#53)
My feeling about Sabbath is that God only has to say for ever once, but repeated the importance of Sabbath observance from the period of creation throughout all Old Testament Scripture. I don't think God ever said not to do it. I think there may be exceptions that are acceptable, but the wholesale change from Saturday to SUNday is a man made exception that is a corruption of what God described as a sign between thee and Me" for ever.
#66. To: Paul Revere (#64)
#67. To: intotheabyss (#61)
#68. To: Diana (#35)
This part is quite a puzzler, think I'll look it up.
#69. To: rowdee (#67)
The Law was more than the 10 Commandments.
#70. To: Destro, Robin, intotheabyss, echo5sierra (#5)
(Edited)
Yes, he was dead Friday, the Sabbath and for part of Sunday when he arose.
Friday - night
Saturday - day
Saturday - night
Sunday - day
3 days and 2 nights. What happened to Sunday night??? Oh well, I guess the Messiah never was one to be too big on prophesies or telling the truth.
#71. To: AnyNameOriginal (#68)
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
#72. To: innieway (#71)
(Edited)
#73. To: AnyNameOriginal (#68)
#74. To: innieway (#70)
#75. To: innieway, noone222 (#70)
DAY 1 DAY2 DAY 3 THU
starts at
sundown on Wed.THU
ends at sundownFRI
FRI
ends at
sundownSAT
starts at sundown on Fri. SAT
ends at sundownSUN
starts at sundown on Sat.SUN
ends at sundown Night Day Night Day Night Day Night Day
#76. To: rowdee (#67)
The Law was more than the 10 Commandments. With the New Covenant, God's laws are written in our 'hearts' (our consciences).
#77. To: AnyNameOriginal, rowdee, Diana, innieway, noone222, robin (#68)
Jesus says that until all pass away and fulfilled (and it is not his death and resurrection on the cross) nothing should be taken from the commandments (10 and otherwise).
#78. To: intotheabyss (#66)
The really sad thing is so many good meaning people buy into some of these issues.
#79. To: Paul Revere (#78)
But if one is going to read the text and declare what is to be done based upon the text, it's clearly SATURDAY, not Sunday that Christians should stay home and not do any work or such.
#80. To: intotheabyss (#79)
#81. To: Paul Revere (#80)
delusional self-righteousness.
#82. To: All (#81)
#83. To: intotheabyss (#81)
Absolutely.
#84. To: intotheabyss (#82)
Hell, I'm convinced he would be shunned more by the so called Christians today than he was by the public at large 2000 years ago.
#85. To: Paul Revere (#83)
If Jesus returned today and did not announce himself, simply started teaching as he always did, he'd be ARRESTED at almost every Protestant church in America, as well as at every Catholic Church, and every Mormon church.
#86. To: bluedogtxn (#84)
his eschewing of material wealth,
#87. To: intotheabyss (#86)
his eschewing of material wealth,
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