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Editorial
See other Editorial Articles

Title: See What Bush Has 'Accomplished' In Iraq
Source: Pantagraph Publishing
URL Source: http://www.pantagraph.com/articles/ ... /08/opinion/letters/125911.txt
Published: May 8, 2007
Author: Pantagraph Publishing
Post Date: 2007-05-08 11:19:50 by Brian S
Keywords: None
Views: 665
Comments: 61

President Bush says there is still more to accomplish in Iraq so he has vetoed Congress.

Let's review what we have accomplished so far:

Possibly as many as 1 million Iraqi dead, 4 million fled or internally displaced.

Over 2,000 physicians killed, 250 kidnapped and 18,000 fled.

Over 300 academics assassinated and thousands fled.

One hundred journalists and 37 support workers killed; a number higher than any other war on Earth.

The destruction of monuments and archeological sites of the cradle of civilization and of history, in general.

Sectarian strife, militias, introduced with the invasion, between peoples who had lived together for 1,000 years.

Ongoing suicide bombings in a country where they were unheard of.

Rigged elections, the results achieved by threats, bribery, threat of ration card confiscation.

Abu Ghraib's torture, forever the U.S. Army's image in the Middle East.

The disappeared in the thousands.

Destruction of an entire civil society with damage to every institution, costing hundreds of billions of dollars to fix.

Missing Iraqi aid in billions of dollars.

The illegal rewriting of constitutions, both Iraqi and American.

The installation of a quisling government with loyalties largely, to anywhere but Iraq, and an American government with loyalties largely to big business.

Committing Nuremberg's ``supreme crime,'' a war of aggression, based on a pack of lies.

Demands for impeachment increasing by the day.

Destruction of America's and Britain's image for generations to come and the inability of their citizens to feel safe anywhere.

A death toll heading toward 4,000 dead U.S troops - admitted to - and thousands horrifically injured.

A trillion dollar debt.

Near universal loathing of America.

And President Bush wants to continue this war and occupation indefinitely.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 44.

#4. To: Brian S, ALL (#0)

Let's just test the very first claim:

Possibly as many as 1 million Iraqi dead

NONSENSE.

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-05-08   15:01:33 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: BeAChooser (#4)

NONSENSE.

Are you saying the claim is nonsense, or is that just a reader's digest of what you normally post here: nonsense?

Critter  posted on  2007-05-08   15:14:06 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Critter, ALL (#7)

Are you saying the claim is nonsense,

I'm saying that there is no physical evidence, whatsoever, to support the claim that a million Iraqis, or anything close to that number, have died since we invaded. It's sheer nonsense derived from highly flawed studies by researchers who were biased against the war to begin with and who revel in that bias. Researchers who employed people to do the leg work in Iraq who they admit HATED Americans and who published their study in a journal whose editors were equally biased (and therefore failed to adequately perform their peer-review responsibilities). It's a claim with no more substance than the claim that bombs brought down the WTC towers and Flight 77 didn't hit the Pentagon. Is that clear enough to understand, Critter? Or are we talking about yet another eyesight problem?

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-05-08   15:54:24 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: BeAChooser (#8)

Can you give me a number that denotes what you believe to be the true number of Iraqi fatalities?

Critter  posted on  2007-05-08   16:10:02 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Critter, ALL (#14)

**********

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/press/pr15.php

Summary

On every available indicator the year just ended (March 2006 – March 2007) has been by far the worst year for violence against civilians in Iraq since the invasion:

* almost half (44%) of all violent civilian deaths after the initial invasion phase occurred in the just-ended fourth year of the conflict

* mortar attacks that kill civilians have quadrupled in the last year (from 73 to 289)

* massive bomb blasts that kill more than 50 people have nearly doubled in the last year (from 9 to 17)

* fatal suicide bombs, car bombs, and roadside bombing attacks have doubled in the last year (from 712 to 1476)

* one in 160 of Baghdad’s 6.5 million population has been violently killed since the beginning of the war, representing 64% of deaths recorded so far

These are the stark headlines derived from Iraq Body Count’s ongoing compilation and analysis of media reports of civilian casualties in the Iraq conflict, which has documented 65,000 violent deaths to date.

Trends since 2003.

Following the six week “Shock and Awe” invasion phase (March 19 - May 1, 2003), which alone caused the deaths of some 7,400 civilians, the violent death toll has steadily risen year-on-year. There were 6,332 reported civilian deaths in the 10.5 months following the initial invasion in year one, or 20 per day; 11,312 in year two, 55% up on year one’s daily rate; 14,910 in year three (32% up on year two); and a staggering 26,540 in year four (78% up on year three, and averaging 74 per day). Not counting the 7,400 invasion-phase deaths, four times as many people were killed in the last year as in the first. And from the invasion to the present, at least 110,000 civilians have been wounded, 38,000 of them during year four.

****************

Take that 65,000 number and double or triple it ... and you probably are in the right ball park. The million claim is simply nonsense.

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-05-08   16:30:28 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: BeAChooser (#15)

You still haven't told us when you are leaving for your trip over there, sweetie pie. The Commander Guy needs another hero like you. HINT: watch the friendly fire.

Sodie Pop  posted on  2007-05-08   18:10:35 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Sodie Pop (#17)

More appropriate advice today!

robin  posted on  2007-05-08   18:26:18 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: robin (#18)

Be A Chooser just wants attention. Nobody is that foolish anymore. The only folks that WANT to be in Iraq are those mercenaries drawing 100k a year plus and tax free.

Sodie Pop  posted on  2007-05-08   18:31:07 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Sodie Pop, robin, ALL (#20)

Tell you way, Sodie Pop ... instead of cheerleading, let's see if you can back up the million death claim.

Because if you can't, why should one believe anything else the article claims?

Sooner or later you folks are going to have to recognize that you can not find the truth on a foundation of lies and misinformation ... nor will you arrive at the proper course of action on such a foundation.

Sooner or later you folks are going to have to recogize that the leaders of the anti-war movement, just like the leaders of the 9/11 truth movement, are not being honest. Ironic consider how much they complain about Bush lying.

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-05-08   18:40:38 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: BeAChooser (#22)

"Sooner or later you folks are going to have to recogize that the leaders of the anti-war movement, just like the leaders of the 9/11 truth movement, are not being honest. Ironic consider how much they complain about Bush lying."

Sooner or later you will realize that your condescending sidebar sniping at people to try to discredit them and blur the discussion to synically influence lurkers turns them off more then anything else.

Sooner or later you will realize your political motivations to assume a black and white, 'all of the Truth Movement is wrong,' and carping at the peace movement are highly transparent to everyone here.

You are a Bush/Cheney/NeoCon butt kisser, and you support their agenda.

We don't give a rat's ass what you have to say, and you have zero credibility in here in light of this.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2007-05-08   18:47:31 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Ferret Mike, ALL (#23)

We don't give a rat's ass what you have to say

In other words, the truth doesn't matter. I'll keep that in mind the next time you complain about Bush (or anyone) lying.

And by the way, I've never said that 'all of the Truth Movement is wrong'. What I've said is that the leaders of that movement and many of the more vocal proponents keep using disinformation and outright lies as arguments to support it. And in so doing, are discrediting the good questions that deserve answers. You won't find the truth on such a foundation of misinformation and lies. You are being ill served by the leaders of the movement, who persist in outrageous, unsupportable, and outright false claims. And if you can't recognize that and do something about it ... oh well.

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-05-08   19:02:39 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: BeAChooser (#24) (Edited)

"In other words, the truth doesn't matter."

Warped take on my words. Listen closer. Your all or nothing -- either all is true or all is false -- attitude about every damn thing the Truth Movement runs up the flag pole demonstrably shows you operate based solely on the agenda of your support of the contrived "War on Terror," and utter hatred of anything Democrat, liberal, or that attacks NeoCons and their beliefs and goals.

If you were approaching this from the perspective of weighing things and deciding what is true to you and what isn't, you would not in anyway be black and white concerning this topic. You start with agenda based conclusions and build arguments to support them.

I go by this, and your use of classic blur the issue/influence the lurker posting tactics and verbiage.

I go by your lack of interest in participating in friendly give and take as you cast everyone you speak to as erroneous and posture condescending toward everyone you speak to.

I go by your one track mind in only having interest in posting when and where it serves to promote NeoCon beliefs, goals and agendas.

Remember I welcomed you to this forum and started with an open mind on you having not had paid much attention to you before when we both were on LP and FR.

I've posted online in forums since the mid 1990s, and everything I've learned as a BBS/forum interlocutor screams out that you are not to be trusted and have hidden agendas.

Oh well, you make your bed here, and you can damn well sleep in it.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2007-05-08   19:16:22 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Ferret Mike, ALL (#26)

Your all or nothing -- either all is true or all is false -- attitude

Again you misrepresent my stated views.

I've NEVER said that all the truth movement claims is false. On the contrary, I've said that some of the questions they ask are good ones that deserve an answer.

Likewise, I've NEVER said that all that the government claims is true. On the contrary, I've pointed out instances where the government has been less than honest. For goodness sakes, I've even accused the Bush administration of helping cover up a possible mass murder (in the death of Ron Brown).

What I've done is point out that you will not find the truth on a foundation of misinformation or lies. So if your truth movement leaders are being dishonest and not fairly representing the facts, the truth movement is in serious trouble.

And they are distorting and misrepresenting the facts. I've proven this over and over. And when the primary accusation of the truth movement is that Bush and Cheney lied to us about 9/11 and the war, that's no small matter. It is hypocritical to say the least.

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-05-08   20:23:07 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: BeAChooser (#33)

"I've NEVER said that all the truth movement claims is false. On the contrary, I've said that some of the questions they ask are good ones that deserve an answer."

But you do not support ANY of their answers, and you support much of the official set of lies quite openly. This loincloth of a minor plausible denial stance by you is expectable from someone with your agenda, and is carefully framed to keep you from having to support a single finding or position of the Truth Movement.

"Likewise, I've NEVER said that all that the government claims is true. On the contrary, I've pointed out instances where the government has been less than honest. For goodness sakes, I've even accused the Bush administration of helping cover up a possible mass murder (in the death of Ron Brown)."

Which serves your deep hatred of all things Clinton and Democrat. 'For goodness sake,' saying you are a brother in arms against governmental lies when your Ron Brown stance serves the purpose of showing you deeply in bed with Bush policies including the "War on Terror" and NeoCon group think is deeply disingenuous and deceptive.

"What I've done is point out that you will not find the truth on a foundation of misinformation or lies. So if your truth movement leaders are being dishonest and not fairly representing the facts, the truth movement is in serious trouble."

The Truth Movement is doing an incredibly good job with available evidence of piecing and trampling the official government lies of 9-11. The False Flag operations succeeded in using the confusion and cover of the el Qaeda attacks to accomplish the demolition of buildings and destruction of much the evidence, but uncontrollable aspects of the operations have revealed things were not as claimed.

The way the commission was run like a snake oil medicine show and grudgingly formed -- much like the discredited Warren Commission report on the Kennedy Murder by high government officials -- is also telling.

I see you with a NeoCon agenda such as undying support for the deceptive and erroneous "War on Terror" dying to debunk what you feel hurts the agenda behind it and the attack on our freedoms and way of life it represents the "War on Terror" actually is.

You are no fact finder or debunker, you are a shill with an agenda, and you start all your points of order with a conclusion and work up an argument to try to blunt and blur the effort to get the truth out the Truth Movement is doing.

"And they are distorting and misrepresenting the facts. I've proven this over and over. And when the primary accusation of the truth movement is that Bush and Cheney lied to us about 9/11 and the war, that's no small matter. It is hypocritical to say the least."

I rest my case. You lay bare here that you are primarily concerned with the continuation of these illegal wars meant to further the NeoCon agenda and desire to end the rough patches and bumps in the road the Truth Movement creates as it lays bare what actually happened on 9-11 and why.

I know you know you will influence nobody here who has good reasoning skills, and has gone to the trouble of examining both sides of the story and know that 9-11 was a false flag operation.

Your mission is to blur things for people not so sure and who lurk to stall momentum this virtual community has in getting the truth of 9-11 out.

This is something being done in many Internet Venues, and in any organization, business, school or other real time aspect of people's lives to keep them away from the truth.

Kids are being referred to mental health experts and stigmatized as troublemakers if they surf Truth Movement sites, search engines like Google warn that Truth Movement sites, "might endanger your computer if you go there" and a myriad of other small separately but cumulatively large efforts to kill the Truth Movement.

This is precisely why you need to go bub. Your game is obvious, and your fuckwitting around to do your small part in destroying the Truth Movement does not belong here.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2007-05-08   21:02:45 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: Ferret Mike, ALL (#37)

But you do not support ANY of their answers,

Not true. I've made no statement either way on many of their accusations. I've been supportive of the effort to get reasonable ... rationale ... questions answered. My efforts are solely aimed at making the movement more credible. To do that, the nonsense that will surely keep the bulk of the public from taking the truth movement seriously has to be eliminated. My efforts are aimed at exposing people in the truth movement who will surely do it harm when the public realizes those individuals have lied to them about many aspects of 9/11. When that realization hits the public awareness, they will surely feel just as betrayed by the truth movement as members of the truth movement feel betrayed by the government.

Now just for fun, why don't you cite a question that you say I do not support. Let's broaden the discussion a little although I can't promise a response until tomorrow as I'm rapidly exhausting my limited number of posts (that christine has kindly allowed me).

and you support much of the official set of lies quite openly.

Again, cite an "official" lie that you say I support. But be prepared to prove it is a lie and that I openly support it. You may find this more difficult than you think.

"Likewise, I've NEVER said that all that the government claims is true. On the contrary, I've pointed out instances where the government has been less than honest. For goodness sakes, I've even accused the Bush administration of helping cover up a possible mass murder (in the death of Ron Brown)."

Which serves your deep hatred of all things Clinton and Democrat.

Let me repeat ... I have accused THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION of complicity in a mass murder. That has nothing to do with Clinton or the democRATS. How in the world can you imagine that such a charge, especially one that is backed up with numerous facts and expert opinion (unlike certain accusations leveled by the *truth* movement), is helpful to Bush or the "NeoCon" movement.

"What I've done is point out that you will not find the truth on a foundation of misinformation or lies. So if your truth movement leaders are being dishonest and not fairly representing the facts, the truth movement is in serious trouble."

The Truth Movement is doing an incredibly good job with available evidence of piecing and trampling the official government lies of 9-11.

If they'd stay away from the assertions that have already been disproven, illogical or just plain nonsense, they might get some where regarding the truth. I don't call regurgitating material that is so easily debunked ... for example claiming that the hole in the Pentagon was less than 20 feet wide ... doing an "incredibly good job". No, that either shows total ineptitude, dishonesty or is itself part of the "plot".

I see you with a NeoCon agenda

I'm curious. Define the NeoCon agenda. Let's see if I fit.

You are no fact finder or debunker, you are a shill with an agenda, and you start all your points of order with a conclusion and work up an argument to try to blunt and blur the effort to get the truth out the Truth Movement is doing.

I'll let the reader of this thread and all the others I posted on decide if that's accurate.

"And they are distorting and misrepresenting the facts. I've proven this over and over. And when the primary accusation of the truth movement is that Bush and Cheney lied to us about 9/11 and the war, that's no small matter. It is hypocritical to say the least."

I rest my case. You lay bare here that you are primarily concerned with the continuation of these illegal wars meant to further the NeoCon agenda and desire to end the rough patches and bumps in the road the Truth Movement creates as it lays bare what actually happened on 9-11 and why.

ROTFLOL! I rest MY case.

I know you know you will influence nobody here who has good reasoning skills,

Would that be the group that has chosen to hide behind the bozo filter? Or the ones like you that refuse to actually debate the facts but instead throw out adhominens, false assertions about me and even more misinformation?

Your mission is to blur things for people not so sure and who lurk to stall momentum this virtual community has in getting the truth of 9-11 out.

Perhaps YOUR mission is to discredit the truth movement by promulgating lies that later will be used to destroy the credibility of the movement in its entirety.

This is precisely why you need to go bub.

And when all else fails ... call for banning. It's what those who are interested in the truth ALWAYS do. (sarcasm)

BeAChooser  posted on  2007-05-08   21:47:32 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


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