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Title: Defeat, retreat and repeat
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URL Source: http://www.picayuneitem.com/cnhi/pi ... 34150224.html?keyword=topstory
Published: May 14, 2007
Author: Cal Thomas
Post Date: 2007-05-14 19:43:56 by BeAChooser
Keywords: None
Views: 76
Comments: 6
Defeat, retreat and repeat By Cal Thomas Syndicated columnist For the sake of argument, let’s say former CIA Director George Tenet is right in his book and that Vice President Dick Cheney pushed too hard with questionable or inaccurate intelligence because of a predisposition to go to war in Iraq and topple Saddam Hussein. So what? We can’t go back and fix the mistakes of the past. Only two choices are available: victory or defeat. Let us assume the Democratic left is right and we should pull U.S. forces out as early as Oct. 1, or perhaps a few months later, but certainly before the next president takes office, because the Bush administration’s policy in Iraq has completely failed and, in the words of Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, “the war is lost.” What next? Does the United States not suffer a loss of credibility in the world’s eyes for again failing to finish a job it started? Do the millions who voted for the first elected government in Iraq conclude they risked their lives for nothing? What would be the consequences of pulling out before Iraq is stabilized sufficiently to stand on its own? And, most importantly, what would a U.S. retreat do to the confidence of the enemy that wishes to dominate the world by force? We have the answer to that last question. Statements declaring all but victory for the Islamists are posted on numerous Islamic Web sites. Various statements by American leaders critical of the war are cited as evidence that the United States is about to quit. Ubaidah Al-Saif, who is associated with Al-Fajr Media in Iraq, as part of what is called “The Islamic State of Iraq,” said on April 25: “The plans of the cross worshippers and their henchmen have collapsed.” He quotes “House Majority Leader Harry Reid” (he means Senate majority leader) as saying, “The Iraqi war is hopeless and the situation in Iraq is the same as it was in Vietnam.” Al-Saif declares American morale is declining and “.our battle against the enemy is first and foremost the will to fight and the length of the battle does not rest with the cross worshippers.” He calls for his fighters to “be patient” and Allah will give them victory. Patience is not one of America’s virtues. Do the war’s opponents realize, or care, that every critical statement they make is reported by the enemy’s media and passed on to homicide bombers and fighters to encourage them to keep killing Americans and Iraqis? The official Palestinian Authority broadcast media have cranked up hate propaganda against America, Israel and Jews. On April 22, in addition to the usual scenes of “martyred” female homicide bombers clad in white and floating beneficently across the screen, viewers were treated to this: “Be certain that America is on its way to utter destruction, America is wallowing (in blood) today in Iraq and Afghanistan, America is defeated and Israel is defeated, and was defeated in Lebanon and Palestine. . Make us victorious over the community of infidels. . Allah, take the Jews and their allies, Allah, take the Americans and their allies . Allah, annihilate them completely and do not leave anyone of them.” That’s not defeat and retreat talk. That’s the talk of victory and self-confidence. In an April 26 op-ed for The Washington Post, Sen. Joseph Lieberman, Connecticut Democrat - a lonely voice within his party because he favors victory for our side and for Iraq’s elected government - said that while progress is slow, it is visible but will take more time. He said even if Iraq’s Sunnis, Shiites and Kurds were to achieve a political solution tomorrow, the threat of al-Qaida would not go away. Lieberman concludes: “The challenge before us, then, is whether we respond to al-Qaida’s barbarism by running away, as it hopes we do - abandoning the future of Iraq, the Middle East and ultimately our own security to the very people responsible for last week’s atrocities - or whether we stand and fight.” Lieberman has chosen to “stand and fight and win,” which is better than defeat, retreat and having to repeat the battle somewhere else against a much stronger enemy, with many more casualties. It’s shameful that so many Democrats running for president appear ready to accept defeat and retreat if it advances their presidential prospects, no matter the prospects for the security of Iraq, the Middle East and the United States.
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#1. To: BeAChooser (#0)
The diaper is busting open Cal.
Actually there is a third - allowing Bush to continue on the path he has been following for the past 4 years until the Army simply ceases to function - as it did in Viet Nam. But this may be a subset of the defeat category. I refuse to support throwing good resources after bad. And this is precisely what we do if we continue to enable Bush's proven failure in Iraq. I would support remaining in Iraq and attempting the clean up the mess created by the GOP under two conditions: (1) The people responsible for the mess, i.e., Bush and Cheney, admit their mistake and resign, and (2) the Iraqi Legislature votes to support our stay - and note that they don't support us being there now.
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...and face punishment if there is any evidence of "cooking" or otherwise manipulating pre-war intel to support their case for war. In wars and nations past, the level of failure in Iraq would result in high ranking government and military officals being put in front of a firing squad or locked in a room with a loaded pistol. We can’t go back and fix the mistakes of the past. Only two choices are available: victory or defeat. The neocon motto: "When you find yourself in a hole, dig faster! If you stop digging the terrorists win!"
"The more I see of life, the less I fear death" - Me.
As opposed to the Republican plan which is: Borrow money, let someone else clean up the mess. Run up record deficits, let someone else clean up the mess. Start a war, let someone else clean up the mess. Destroy the economy, let someone else clean up the mess. That should be the GOP slogan: "Let someone else clean up the mess" That's okay, though Beachy. The grown ups have retaken the house and senate and in 2008 will have a working majority in both houses and the white house for the foreseeable future. And you Pubbies can squeak about "retreat" and "treason" and whatever else you want to squeak about from the back benches where you belong. We'll clean up the mess and take the heat for your fuck ups. Just like we always have, after Nixon, after Reagan and Bush I, and after Bush II. You guys talk a good game, but can't run a country for shit.
The more laws, the more offenders.
ooooooh, you gave me a good hearty laugh with that one. :P
On what basis do you claim the Army is ceasing to function? I don't see them losing the head to head confrontations in Iraq. Morale, despite what the MSM wants us to think, is still quite high. Enlistments are steady. If anything they are probably discouraged because so many in America don't seem to support them and their mission. I'm sure that won't be helped now that democRATS are actively seeking to prevent the funding needed to supply the military with equipment and training, and folks like you are applauding. Sure you would. ROTFLOL! But your premise is wrong. They didn't make a mistake. Oh perhaps they didn't choose exactly the right way to prosecute the war (hindsight is always wonderful) but they didn't make a mistake in going in and toppling Saddam in the first place. Nor have they made a mistake in trying to reshape the country. On those points, you've all heard my arguments and you simply refused to debate them. That's not being entirely honest. Sure, a little over half of the Iraqi Legislators voted (in a non-binding manner ... much like the democRATS in this country) that Americans leave. But to secure that vote they were forced to add a clause in that petition that calls on the Americans not to leave until Iraq is ready. And by all accounts, Iraq is not ready. If it was, there wouldn't be that clause in the petition. The parliament would just have order us to leave ... now. And polls of the populace say the same thing. Sure, the Iraqis want us out but the majority clearly do NOT want an immediate withdrawal. They want us to remain until they are "ready". Here's a source quoting a member of that parliament supporting what I said: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/10/AR2007051000387.html "'We haven't asked for the immediate withdrawal of multinational forces; we asked that we should build our security forces and make them qualified, and at that point there would be a withdrawal,' said Bahaa al-Araji, a member of parliament allied with the anti-American Shiite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr, whose supporters drafted the bill." There's another thing you forgot to mention. That petition, as noted above, was sponsored by al-Sadr's people. In case our readers don't know, that's the guy whose militia has caused so much trouble and who is now hiding in Iran (he's been allied with Iran since the beginning). One reason they want us out of Iraq is that the the Coalition has put a lot of pressure on those militias to disband. al-Sadr made a recent speech ordering his people to "kill Americans". Now there's a guy who believes in letting democratic processes work. ROTFLOL! The WP article also notes that "The most prominent political parties in Iraq -- such as Maliki's Dawa party; the Shiite group known as the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq; the Iraqi Islamic Party, a leading Sunni group; and prominent Kurdish factions -- appear to oppose setting specific dates for withdrawal. 'I don't think it's a good idea,' said Hachim al-Hassani, a secular Sunni from the Iraqi National List and a former speaker of parliament. 'Unless we complete building our forces so we are capable of defending the country and bringing security to the country, then we are not ready for something like this. A premature withdrawal could lead to a civil war in Iraq.'" And the article states this: "There was also some disagreement over the terms of proposed timetable legislation. Kurdish lawmaker Mahmoud Othman told the Associated Press he had agreed to back the measure on the condition that it included an accompanying timeline for the buildup of Iraqi forces, but this was not included in the draft. Othman called the omission a 'deception.' Hassan al-Shimmari, a Shiite who leads the Fadhila Party in parliament, also signed the petition and had similar concerns. 'We can all see that it's not possible for the American troops to leave, and that withdrawing right now would lead to a disaster in Iraq, because the Iraqi security forces are still very weak, and they are still controlled by their sectarian and factional loyalties,' he said." So apparently you aren't the only one trying to deceive folks.
--------------------------------------------------------- Aren't you lucky. You get to receive one of the 15 posts I'm allowed each day.
Does the United States not suffer a loss of credibility in the world’s eyes for again failing to finish a job it started?
"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men" Plato
#2. To: BeAChooser (#0)
We can’t go back and fix the mistakes of the past. Only two choices are available: victory or defeat.
#3. To: ... (#2)
(1) The people responsible for the mess, i.e., Bush and Cheney, admit their mistake and resign, and...
#4. To: BeAChooser (#0)
Defeat, retreat and repeat
#5. To: bluedogtxn (#4)
#6. To: ..., ALL (#2)
Actually there is a third - allowing Bush to continue on the path he has been following for the past 4 years until the Army simply ceases to function - as it did in Viet Nam. But this may be a subset of the defeat category.
I would support remaining in Iraq and attempting the clean up the mess created by the GOP under two conditions: (1) The people responsible for the mess, i.e., Bush and Cheney, admit their mistake and resign,
and (2) the Iraqi Legislature votes to support our stay - and note that they don't support us being there now.
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