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Title: Deal May Legalize Millions of Immigrants
Source:
Associated Press
URL Source: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... /05/17/national/w150745D89.DTL
Published: May 17, 2007
Author: Associated Press
Post Date: 2007-05-17 22:53:16 by Brian S
Keywords: None
Views: 279
Comments: 18
(05-17) 18:47 PDT WASHINGTON (AP) -- In a striking reach across party lines, the White House and key lawmakers agreed Thursday on a sweeping immigration plan to grant legal status to millions of people in the country unlawfully. Sealed after months of secretive bargaining, the deal mandates bolstered border security and a high-tech employment verification system to prevent illegal workers from getting jobs. President Bush said the proposal would "help enforce our borders but equally importantly, it'll treat people with respect." The compromise brought together an unlikely alliance of liberal Democrats such as Sen. Edward M. Kennedy of Massachusetts and conservative Republicans such as Sen. Jon Kyl of Arizona on an issue that carries heavy potential risks and rewards for all involved. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said debate would begin on Monday, but he cautioned, "I don't know if the immigration legislation is going to bear fruit and we're going to be able to pass it." Almost instantly, the plan brought vehement criticism from both sides of the immigration issue, including liberals who called it unfair and unworkable and conservatives who branded it an overly permissive "amnesty." The proposal constitutes a far-reaching change in the immigration system that would admit future arrivals seeking to put down roots in the U.S. based on their skills, education levels and job experience, limiting the importance of family ties. A new class of guest workers would be allowed in temporarily, but only after the new security measures were in place — expected to take 18 months. "This is a bill where people who live here in our country will be treated without amnesty but without animosity," Bush said. Kennedy hailed it as "the best possible chance we will have in years to secure our borders and bring millions of people out of the shadows and into the sunshine of America." Kyl said the measure wasn't perfect, "but it represents the best opportunity that we have in a bipartisan way to do something about this problem." It was clear, however, that many Republicans and Democrats were deeply skeptical. Reid said it needed improvement. "I have serious concerns about some aspects of this proposal, including the structure of the temporary worker program and undue limitations on family immigration," Reid said. Conservatives on both sides of the Capitol derided the deal as "amnesty" for illegal immigrants, using a politically charged word that figured prominently in campaigns across the country last year. "I don't care how you try to spin it, this is amnesty," said Sen. Jim DeMint, R-S.C. The proposed agreement would allow illegal immigrants to come forward and obtain a "Z visa" and — after paying fees and a $5,000 fine — ultimately get on track for permanent residency, which could take between eight and 13 years. Heads of households would have to return to their home countries first. They could come forward right away to claim a probationary card that would let them live and work legally in the U.S., but could not begin the path to permanent residency or citizenship until border security improvements and the high-tech worker identification program were completed. A new crop of low-skilled guest workers would have to return home after stints of two years. They could renew their visas twice, but would be required to leave for a year in between each time. If they wanted to stay in the U.S. permanently, they would have to apply under the point system for a limited pool of green cards. The program drew fire from liberal groups that said it was unworkable. They had joined Democrats in pressing instead for guest workers to be permitted to stay and work indefinitely in the U.S., and ultimately earn the chance to stay. "Without a clear path to permanent residence for a healthy share of the future temporary workers, we run the risk of reproducing the widespread illegality that this bill is designed to address," said Frank Sharry, the executive director of the National Immigration Forum. Sen. Byron Dorgan, D-N.D., said he would try to kill the temporary worker program because it would bring in a potentially unlimited stream of immigrants to compete with Americans for jobs and depress wages. In perhaps the most hotly debated change, the proposed plan would shift from an immigration system primarily weighted toward family ties toward one with preferences for people with advanced degrees and sophisticated skills. Republicans have long sought such revisions, which they say are needed to end "chain migration" that harms the economy. Family connections alone would no longer be enough to qualify for a green card — except for spouses and minor children of U.S. citizens. Strict new limits would apply to U.S. citizens seeking to bring foreign-born parents into the country. The issue quickly became a subject of debate among presidential candidates in both parties, exposing divisions among Republicans. Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., who led the charge last year to push through an immigration overhaul, called the deal "the first step" and urged moving it forward before the politics of 2008 made such action impossible. "We all know that this issue can be caught up in extracurricular politics unless we move forward as quickly as possible," said McCain. Mitt Romney, another Republican presidential hopeful, issued a statement calling the plan "the wrong approach," saying it conferred "a form of amnesty" on illegal immigrants. "That is unfair to the millions of people who have applied to legally immigrate to the U.S.," the former Massachusetts governor said. Former Republican Sen. Fred Thompson of Tennessee, who is weighing a presidential bid, said the measure should be scrapped in favor of one that secures the border. "With this bill, the American people are going to think they are being sold the same bill of goods as before on border security," Thompson said in a statement. Democratic Sen. Barack Obama of Illinois said the compromise needs work. "Without modifications, the proposed bill could devalue the importance of family reunification, replace the current group of undocumented immigrants with a new undocumented population consisting of guest workers who will overstay their visas, and potentially drive down wages of American workers," Obama said in a statement. http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/05/17/national/w150745D89.DTL
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#1. To: Brian S, *The Border*, *North American Union* (#0)
"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." ~George Washington
THERE WAS NO REACH ACROSS PARTY LINES, THIS IS COLLUSION TO COMMIT TREASON!!!
Dying for old bastards, and their old money, isn't my idea of freedom.
I think he thinks that's clever.
"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." ~George Washington
Ron Paul was right, remove the incentive for them to come. He missed hitting the true source of the problem, and that is NAFTA.
"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke
Well, business is business.
Without a button, it's not a march.
Or make it pay for us and them. Last year, NPR had a series about the social conservatives and one woman, a strawberry farmer in Plant City, Fla., said we should round them up and deport them all. Except HER illegals. "I'd go bankrupt without these people," she said. That cracked me up. Greed or hate? Hate or greed? Decisions, decisions. This is a complex problem that has no solution I have heard yet. We're already losing a lot of our fruit crop on the West Coast because migrant workers are afraid to come into the U.S. after all the ICE raids. There's gotta be some solution, but damned if I can come up with one. The best I can think of is if a company just cannot find American workers, they can pay a fee that goes into social security and their workers pay tax on their earnings, with no special consideration for citizenship. Then, we invest some of that tax money in improving our visa departments in other countries so people can come and go without a tortuous routine, so they'll WANT to go home for part of the year, knowing they can come back for jobs AMERICANS DON'T WANT. Since I work in the food business, I know that no restaurant would get a dish washed if they had to rely on Americans. But to let immigrants take over construction and factory jobs is just suicidal. And they are. Go by a construction site in non-union areas, and see if you can find a carpenter who speaks English. Even here in Chicago, which is bigtime union, the immigrants are hired for the day labor jobs, the non-union jobs, and the unions are going nuts not out of greed but because they might get killed because these guys don't understand "watch out for that crane." BTW, part of the "do jobs Americans won't" chant is that the employers make the jobs so unpleasant that only an illegal will do it without complaining. Working in a meat plant used to be if not pleasant, not actually unpleasant. Now they have sped up the lines so much that the job is physically exhausting. They can afford to burn through employees because they know even hungrier people will show up and work harder for even less. The Mexicans are now actually "spoiled." They know how to get lower-stress jobs now. So the Guatamalans and Salvadorans and Nicaraguans are replacing them. It's exploitative. There's a reason why the meat industry moved to places like Arkansas and Kansas where there was no native workforce. Iowa has a 1 percent unemployment rate. They know they can't find workers without illegals. NAFTA, in the abstract, is a good idea. But no one was thinking about ramshackle Mexican trucks with bald tires doing 80 down our side roads. Or shipping U.S. jobs a few miles south to save a few bucks. Some people make money on the deal, but it ain't the average guy in the U.S.
TREASON. THEY'VE KILLED WHAT WAS LEFT OF AMERICA. NOW, WHAT ARE *WE* GOING TO DO ABOUT IT? Don't say "lobby congress" or "vote." LMFAO./
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition What about the bracero program? I did a paper on the bracero labor camps in the fifties, in Orange County; the program seemed OK to me, but then I was a “rich white preppie.” Any recollections from the old timers?
Not THAT much of an old-timer, but bracero means essentially a guest worker. Seriously, apart from my suggestions above, I have no idea what to do. All I know is, the two extremes are wrong. One thing that puzzles me, though, is why Cubans get such special treatment. They get fished out of water 40 miles away and they get escorted to Miami with a bottle of champagne. Wonder if it might have something to do with voting GOP.
This is a bill where the politicians that vote for it should be hung by their scrawny, self-serving necks until any evidence of life is stilled. Those proposing it should be hiding in fear of their lives. What becomes evident is that these pukes have no concern for America while at the same time believe they have some authority to give the country to mexico. ARE YOU STILL FUNDING THIS SHIT WITH YOUR TAX DONATIONS ??? If so, why ? If so, how can you be less than an accomplice to TREASON ? We desparately need a REVOLUTION.
RON PAUL or REVOLUTION
Good, let the fucking peaches rot, then maybe the asshole that refuses to pay a decent wage will realize he has to quit exploiting third worlders and Americans to earn a living. Wait until Mexicans legal and illegal start getting shot. Many innocent Mexican- Americans will be caught up in the killing, as will other Americans. This will get very nasty and could escalate into a civil war. This notion that Americans won't do the jobs is complete bullshit. The truth is they won't work for the poor wage desired by the corporate elite that would tend to lower their standard of living to that of a Mexican squatter. America is able to stand alone and implement her own economy. 300 million industrious people, and adequate natural resources are enough to supply an economy that is self- contained and self-reliant. The inter-dependence notion is bullshit promoted by globalist minions such as every mainstream media outlet in the USA to frighten the American public into accepting this viral invasion and destruction of our culture. Our economy would adjust just fine to whatever market forces determined and wages would do the same. Protecting our economy also protects our borders. The ability of industry to hire illegals is criminal and should be treated that way by the officials charged with that duty. If they don't do it then we must. (Burn baby burn]. Other nations may be dependent on Bangladesh or Ethiopia ... that ain't America. NAFTA and GATT have allowed industry to move to slave labor states. This is stupidity, exporting industry and jobs while importing third world unemployed and uneducated people. Absurd, ludicrous and insane. The Federal Reserve Act is the key element that works to destroy this nation. It must be terminated before the nation is. Every financial collapse that has been experienced in this country since the Civil War has occurred as a result of fiat monetary manipulation by banking elites with governmental assistance. This AMNESTY legislation being proposed is as dangerous to the country as the Federal Reserve Act was in 1913 for many reasons even if it doesn't pass. We are being acclimated to the idea that we can't live without Mexicans invading our country and bringing their rotten culture with them.
RON PAUL or REVOLUTION
It's easy: just make illegals into slaves. A lot of them are close to indentured servants anyway, so let's just go whole hog and enslave the whole lot of them. Think of the benefits. No more education care or education for them, no more mooching off of taxpayers...just use them up and ship them back to Mexico when they get old or sick. If the U.S. is going to act like an empire, hell, let's be an empire!
Freeper motto: I read, but do not understand, I write, but make no sense, I think, but nothing happens.
A lot of them are close to indentured servants anyway, so let's just go whole hog and enslave the whole lot of them. Thet would leave on their own if they couldn't find employment or housing. Criminalize these two things, implement stiff penalties and they're gone ... paying their own way home. The criminal element of the illegals might choose to stay ... we might have to shoot them since the people charged with that job aren't doing it.
RON PAUL or REVOLUTION
NAFTA, in the abstract, is a good idea. But no one was thinking about ramshackle Mexican trucks with bald tires doing 80 down our side roads. Or shipping U.S. jobs a few miles south to save a few bucks. Some people make money on the deal, but it ain't the average guy in the U.S I beg to differ. I and millions of others joined w/Perot/Buchanan/Nader to fight this mess b/c we saw the exact scenario you describe. For our efforts we were ushered out of the GOP and into political exile. NAFTA was purchased with our tax dollars for the benefit of the multinationals. To this day I despise people who think NAFTA, GATT-WTO was a worthy concept.
I agree wholeheartedly. Anyone that believes you can export industry and jobs while importing the unemployed and uneducated isn't capable of having an original thought in their empty head.
RON PAUL or REVOLUTION
Little did we know back then that NAFTA/GATT---> WTO would be their economic gateway to the physical integration of America. All this open border scheme done in contemplation of the NAU. Ron Paul best develop the hide of an armadillo, because they’re coming hard and fast. I wouldn’t be surprised if they discovered child porn on his hard drive.
BUMP
"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." ~George Washington
Or worse, he'lll end up being attacked by some "lone nut" who couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with a cannon, miraculously pulling off miracle shots that can't be duplicated by the best snipers in the world. Then Arlen Spector will come up with a "magic bullet 2" theory that will explain how a projectile was able to make 17 different turns in 1/10th of a second, thereby causing 47 different wounds all from a single shot from a single "lone nut" gunman. Face it folks, we are not ALLOWED to vote for anyone who represents OUR interests, we only get to vote for candidates who represent THEIR interests.
#2. To: Brian S (#0)
#3. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#2)
"This is a bill where people who live here in our country will be treated without amnesty but without animosity," Bush said.
#4. To: Brian S (#0)
#5. To: robin (#3)
I think he thinks that's clever.
#6. To: BTP Holdings (#4)
Ron Paul was right, remove the incentive for them to come. He missed hitting the true source of the problem, and that is NAFTA.
#7. To: Brian S, ALL, CHRISTINE (#0)
WHAT THE FCUK ARE WE GOING TO DO ABOUT IT? WILL WE ALLOW THIS TO STAND?
#8. To: Mekons4 (#6)
"I'd go bankrupt without these people,"
#9. To: karelian (#8)
#10. To: robin (#3)
(Edited)
This is not just written to Robin ... it's to every American with at least one drop of Red, White and Blue blood left.
"This is a bill where people who live here in our country will be treated without amnesty but without animosity," Bush said.
#11. To: Mekons4 (#6)
We're already losing a lot of our fruit crop on the West Coast because migrant workers are afraid to come into the U.S. after all the ICE raids.
#12. To: Mekons4 (#6)
There's gotta be some solution, but damned if I can come up with one.
#13. To: YertleTurtle (#12)
(Edited)
There's gotta be some solution, but damned if I can come up with one. It's easy: just make illegals into slaves.
#14. To: Mekons4 (#6)
#15. To: Jethro Tull (#14)
To this day I despise people who think NAFTA, GATT-WTO was a worthy concept.
#16. To: noone222 (#15)
#17. To: noone222 (#10)
RON PAUL or REVOLUTION
#18. To: Jethro Tull (#16)
Ron Paul best develop the hide of an armadillo, because they’re coming hard and fast. I wouldn’t be surprised if they discovered child porn on his hard drive.
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