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9/11
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Title: Here's another reason the 9/11 fire-mediated collapse theory has to be wrong.
Source: http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_joseph_s_070522_oh_y
URL Source: http://www.opednews.com/articles/op ... 522_oh_yeah_2c_here_s_anot.htm
Published: May 23, 2007
Author: Joseph Smith
Post Date: 2007-05-26 07:03:54 by Kamala
Ping List: *9-11*     Subscribe to *9-11*
Keywords: 911
Views: 248
Comments: 13

May 23, 2007 at 10:03:51

Here's another reason the 9/11 fire-mediated collapse theory has to be wrong.

by Joseph Smith Page 1 of 1 page(s)

http://www.opednews.com

The notion that the WTC towers collapsed because fire weakened the steel is laughable.

The fact that other steel-framed, steel-cored buildings have suffered much longer burning, much larger in extent and, demonstrably, hotter fires, and yet never collapsed, shows how difficult it is in practice to bring down one of these buildings from fire.

Apparently, these buildings are robust structures, highly over-built to handle heavy wind loads; and it seems you would need to heat a large volume of steel, uniformly, over a wide cross-sectional area of the structure, to even have a chance of making one collapse in the neat, symmetrical manner witnessed (to the extent it is even, theoretically, possible to do this without resorting to explosives in the first place).

The easiest way to see that these buildings were rigged for demolition is to start by considering the fact that, between the time Flt. 175 hit WTC2 and the time the building collapsed, only 56 minutes had elapsed. And 56 minutes, simply, isn't enough time to develop a fire hot enough, nor large enough in extent, to even have a remote chance of getting enough steel hot enough to be a factor.

The best way to see the absurdity of the fire-mediated collapse theory is to make some simplifying assumptions...and apply some simple math and physics to the problem.

Say, for the sake of argument, that you’re concerned with one floor of the building. Assuming that you have an unlimited supply of readily combustible fuel available (which is, obviously, not true, but let's be generous), and there is no heat loss by convection, conduction or radiation (another ridiculous assumption, but let's give the shills every advantage).

Now, the rate at which the temperature rises on that floor will be determined by the composite thermal mass of the building materials associated with that floor, and the rate at which you can bring in oxygen to burn the fuel. Assuming, say, about 5E5 kg of steel, and about 1.4E6 kg of concrete, per floor (taking internet based numbers at face value), with specific heats of about 450 and 3300 J/kg*C, respectively, simple algebra shows that you would have to release about 3.27E12 Joules of energy to uniformly bring the temperature from ambient up to, say, 700 degrees C (starting to get into the interesting range, but probably still not high enough to cause a collapse).

The problem is that for WTC2, you have to release this huge amount of energy in only 56 minutes. That means you would have to burn somewhere on the order of 30,000 gallons of jet fuel in 56 minutes. That means you would have to supply air to the fire inside the building at a rate somewhere in the neighborhood of 6E5 cubic feet per minute.

That's right, in order to bring the temperature of one floor of a WTC tower from 25 to 700 degrees centigrade, uniformly, in a short 56-minute time frame, you would have to supply about 600,000 cubic feet of air per minute...for each of those 56 minutes. And that’s a ridiculously high number. And even if you did find a way to create such blast furnace like conditions, the fact of the matter is that you would convect a significant portion of the heat away, just like what happens in a fireplace; in order to let fresh air in, you have to let the heated, oxygen-depleted air escape.

If you were lucky, and the process was, say, 50% efficient (meaning the airflow only carried away half your heat), you would need to double everything, which would mean burning 60,000 gallons of jet fuel in 56 minutes, while feeding the fire with over one million cubic feet of air per minute.

By way of the above numbers, the absurdity of the "official" version of events is laid bare for all to see.

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#1. To: nolu_chan (#0)

The author here is being very kind to NIST. It is an interesting article.

So many events have to happen in such a short time in the NIST fantasy.

In the assumed aircraft debris path(depending which one you want to use), 100% of the fireproofing is removed. Then you have fuel poor, ventilation limited, 15 min transient fires that flare up and die down and must migrate to the area of outer girder "bowing". This takes around 60 min in the WTC 1 to reach the south face and 10-15 min in WTC 2 to reach the east face.

So now we are down to a basic office fire that is 40 min for each tower. Also in these time frames, all the cement and gypsum board must be removed from the core so in this time, the core can heat up, cool, then contract. Even thought NIST states their were no combustibles or fuel loading in the core.

In the area of limited "bowing". NIST states that around 30% was severe. That would be around 18 outer collumns. The "bowing" was seen over 2-3 floors.

In the meantime, the trusses have to expand, then contract and sag. In the UL tests, the trusses sagged a few inches, but in the computer models. the sag turns into 40 plus inches.

Let me try and get this straight, first remove all the insulation, then heat up and cool down the core, which in turn, pulls on the trusses which expanded then contracted then sagged, which in turn then pulls on 18 outer girders over a couple of floors, and BINGO, the towers are "poised for probable global collapse.

Its Rube Goldberg meets the game Mouse-Trap.

Kamala  posted on  2007-05-26   7:48:45 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: nolu_chan (#1)

Some more quotes from Dr. Frank Greening:

Ironicall, some try to tell me that molten iron/steel was "to be expected" in the WTC fires - see the reports on the WTC dust by one of LashL's "experts" R. J. Lee. But even R. J. Lee avoids telling us WHY molten iron/steel is to be expected in a jet-fuelled fire. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NIST consider the acceleration of the Tower AND the acceleration of the aircraft, and then appear to confuse the two. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote from NIST 1-5:

"Since the aircraft impact forces were estimated to have been about 100g, NIST assumed there was not enough of the ceiling system in place to provide significant thermal protection."

This is interesting indeed! First quote does say "aircraft impact forces"... But 100g's is NOT a force! It is an acceleration. The force involved depends on the mass....

In NIST NCSTAR 1-5D, pages 43 to 44, NIST calculate the peak force ON THE TOWER from the aircraft impact as 76 x 10^3 kN. This is consistent with an acceleration of 0.25g. (Using F =Ma, we have F = 31 x 10^6 x 0.25 x 9.8 Newtons)

Now an equal and opposite reaction force acts on the aircraft, so again using F = Ma we have 76 x 10^3 kN = 124 x 10^3 x a, from which we calculate that the acceleration OF THE AIRCRAFT was 613 m/s/s or approximately 63 g's.

This appears to be an example of poor editing by NIST! --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just to address a few issues about the state of the Twin Towers after the aircraft impacts:

Please check out NCSTAR 1-5D. Here are a few snippets:

"Information regarding the integrity of the ceiling tile systems would be pivotal in assessing the role of the floor truss assemblies in the eventual collapse of the towers. .... Accounts of building occupants (show that) the impact of the airplanes resulted in some dislodging of ceiling tiles and damage to the suspension system. Descriptions of the magnitude of the damage at the observers locations and the spatial extent of the damage were neither quantitative nor comprehensive."

"The concern (of the tests of the ceiling tile system) was for floors just above and below the impact zone, which were not directly damaged by the airplane, but had significant fires after the impact."

The test results showed that all "ceiling systems resisted significant damage up to about 1g applied to the test platform."

NIST's own estimation of the MAXIMUM magnitude of the acceleration caused by the impact of the aircraft was about 0.25g.

Hence we have NIST's own studies showing that the aircraft impacts couldn't do more than dislodge a few ceiling tiles just a couple of floors from the center of the impact! --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It seems to me that NIST makes an enormous number of assumptions without evidence, something that is frowned upon in science.

Take a look at the following:

Table 12-9 in NCSTAR 1-5G; or Table 5-5 in NCSTAR 1-5F; or Section 2.3.4 in NCSTAR 1-5G; or Figure E-31 in NCSTAR 1-2; or Figure 5-9 in NCSTAR 1-6; or Section 5.2.3 in NCSTAR 1-6.

Then show me the scientific evidence that NIST has for its "loss of thermal insulation" theory. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So the REAL question is what melted the iron in the towers. And please note that the iron spheres were quite abundant in the WTC dust. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kamala  posted on  2007-05-26   12:37:14 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


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