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9/11
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Title: Here's another reason the 9/11 fire-mediated collapse theory has to be wrong.
Source: http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_joseph_s_070522_oh_y
URL Source: http://www.opednews.com/articles/op ... 522_oh_yeah_2c_here_s_anot.htm
Published: May 23, 2007
Author: Joseph Smith
Post Date: 2007-05-26 07:03:54 by Kamala
Ping List: *9-11*     Subscribe to *9-11*
Keywords: 911
Views: 247
Comments: 13

May 23, 2007 at 10:03:51

Here's another reason the 9/11 fire-mediated collapse theory has to be wrong.

by Joseph Smith Page 1 of 1 page(s)

http://www.opednews.com

The notion that the WTC towers collapsed because fire weakened the steel is laughable.

The fact that other steel-framed, steel-cored buildings have suffered much longer burning, much larger in extent and, demonstrably, hotter fires, and yet never collapsed, shows how difficult it is in practice to bring down one of these buildings from fire.

Apparently, these buildings are robust structures, highly over-built to handle heavy wind loads; and it seems you would need to heat a large volume of steel, uniformly, over a wide cross-sectional area of the structure, to even have a chance of making one collapse in the neat, symmetrical manner witnessed (to the extent it is even, theoretically, possible to do this without resorting to explosives in the first place).

The easiest way to see that these buildings were rigged for demolition is to start by considering the fact that, between the time Flt. 175 hit WTC2 and the time the building collapsed, only 56 minutes had elapsed. And 56 minutes, simply, isn't enough time to develop a fire hot enough, nor large enough in extent, to even have a remote chance of getting enough steel hot enough to be a factor.

The best way to see the absurdity of the fire-mediated collapse theory is to make some simplifying assumptions...and apply some simple math and physics to the problem.

Say, for the sake of argument, that you’re concerned with one floor of the building. Assuming that you have an unlimited supply of readily combustible fuel available (which is, obviously, not true, but let's be generous), and there is no heat loss by convection, conduction or radiation (another ridiculous assumption, but let's give the shills every advantage).

Now, the rate at which the temperature rises on that floor will be determined by the composite thermal mass of the building materials associated with that floor, and the rate at which you can bring in oxygen to burn the fuel. Assuming, say, about 5E5 kg of steel, and about 1.4E6 kg of concrete, per floor (taking internet based numbers at face value), with specific heats of about 450 and 3300 J/kg*C, respectively, simple algebra shows that you would have to release about 3.27E12 Joules of energy to uniformly bring the temperature from ambient up to, say, 700 degrees C (starting to get into the interesting range, but probably still not high enough to cause a collapse).

The problem is that for WTC2, you have to release this huge amount of energy in only 56 minutes. That means you would have to burn somewhere on the order of 30,000 gallons of jet fuel in 56 minutes. That means you would have to supply air to the fire inside the building at a rate somewhere in the neighborhood of 6E5 cubic feet per minute.

That's right, in order to bring the temperature of one floor of a WTC tower from 25 to 700 degrees centigrade, uniformly, in a short 56-minute time frame, you would have to supply about 600,000 cubic feet of air per minute...for each of those 56 minutes. And that’s a ridiculously high number. And even if you did find a way to create such blast furnace like conditions, the fact of the matter is that you would convect a significant portion of the heat away, just like what happens in a fireplace; in order to let fresh air in, you have to let the heated, oxygen-depleted air escape.

If you were lucky, and the process was, say, 50% efficient (meaning the airflow only carried away half your heat), you would need to double everything, which would mean burning 60,000 gallons of jet fuel in 56 minutes, while feeding the fire with over one million cubic feet of air per minute.

By way of the above numbers, the absurdity of the "official" version of events is laid bare for all to see.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 5.

#3. To: Kamala (#0)

Let me try and get this straight, first remove all the insulation, then heat up and cool down the core, which in turn, pulls on the trusses which expanded then contracted then sagged, which in turn then pulls on 18 outer girders over a couple of floors, and BINGO, the towers are "poised for probable global collapse.

A lot of food for thought here. For the moment I wish to address the above which I believe may be erroneous.

As I see it, the assertion is that the trusses heated and (at first) expanded causing an outward bowing. Upon further heating (not cooling) the trusses lost structural strength and sagged, pulling on the outer girders.

The initial pancake collapse theory held that the bolts failed and the floors dropped. This required thousands of bolts to fail simultaneously for a symmetrical collapse, an unlikely event.

The newer theory addressed this issue by asserting that the bolts and welds held and sagging of the steel caused the floor structure to pull itself loose from its supports.

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Another point: While one may conjecture about how all the office furniture burned hot enough to take out the floor trusses, what was in the core that could burn and take out the core columns? It would seem that the fuel would be most limited in the core where the columns were massive.

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Another brain dropping: Of what do the "visco-elastic dampers" consist? If there was enough heat generated to wipe out the steel columns, what would happen to visco-elastic dampers when subjected to that heat?

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nolu_chan  posted on  2007-05-26   17:57:14 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: nolu_chan (#3)

You are correct. Everything is an assertion or assumed. Also you are correct, the trusses would not contract because of the assumed heating. They would continue from expansion to sagging.

where is the pulling truss force coming from?

How does a sagging truss pull outer collumns?

That is why NIST uses the core shortening to pull the trusses which in turn pull the outer girders.

NIST wants you to believe that this all happened in a very small time frame. 13-15 min for the 1700-1800F transient flare up, then around another 30 min at lower temps.

These dampers were made of something like an oily memory foam. NIST needs to have this intact, along with the floors to the outer girders, for the assumed pulling.

If these melt and disconnect with the bolts, the floors cannot pull.

How does a disconnected floor pull?

A few other tid bits:

One would have to remove around 9 core girders for the tower to collapse.

One would have to remove 5 complete floor systems.

One would have to sever around 60 outer collumns.

Kamala  posted on  2007-05-26   18:55:01 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Kamala (#4)

One would have to remove around 9 core girders for the tower to collapse.

For WTC-2, the NIST estimates 10 completely severed columns and 1 heavily damaged. The illustration [Figure 3-3 on p. 40/90 or Figure 6-25 on p. 115/165] indicates 22 damaged columns.

WTC-2 was hit significantly lower than WTC-1. The columns were sturdier at the lower elevation.

This particular fairy tale worst possible case scenario is based on the aircraft hitting the building with a head-on trajectory. The video evidence says it ain't so. Even the NIST report must acknowledge that the right engine exited through the northeast corner, and that the landing gear assembly landed near the engine.

The left engine purportedly severed 15 perimeter columns and its debris purportedly severed 9 core columns and heavily damaged another. Color me skeptical. The plane pushed debris to the northeast corner making it highly unlikely that it had any opportunity to sever 9 core columns.

Indeed, considering that the plane did not hit the building head-on, I fail to see how it could have taken out more than 2 to 4 columns in a worst-case scenario.

At page 100/150, NIST asserted for its model that "aircraft-damaged structural components were removed."

NIST hallucinates that 22 core columns were "aircraft-damaged." They are most definitely structural components. It is a lot easier for a computer model to drop a building when one removes up to 22 core columns. It may be a lot easier but it has the disadvantage of being detached from reality.


NIST page 40/90

Figure 3-3. Simulation of aircraft impact damage to the 78th through 83rd floors in WTC 2.

The middle of the left wing hit the 78th floor, severing nine perimeter columns and breaking 19 windows on the south face. The SFRM was stripped from the floor trusses over the same width as the building core. The stripping of insulation from the trusses continued inward across the tenant space and about two thirds of the way into the core. There was no direct core column damage from the debris on this floor. However, the southeast corner core column was so damaged on the 80th floor that it broke at its splices on the 77th and 83rd floors.

There was heavier damage to the 79th floor. The left engine and the inboard section of the left wing shattered a 25 ft wide section of the center of the floor slab all the way to the core of the building and severed 15 perimeter columns. Reaching the building core, the debris severed nine columns, heavily damaged another, and abraded the SFRM from the eastern two thirds of the columns and trusses all the way to the north end of the core.

The damage was most severe on the 80th and 81st floors, hit directly by the fuselage. On the lower floor, a chunk of the floor slab was broken, just above the affected piece of the 79th floor. In addition, a 70 ft deep strip along the east side of the core floor was crushed. The north side floor slab sagged along its eastern end. Ten of the perimeter columns severed on the 79th floor were displaced here also. Within the building core, ten columns were severed, including many that were severed on the 79th floor. The SFRM was stripped not only from the eastern two thirds of the core structural elements, nearly to the north wall, but also from most of the trusses on the east tenant space, all the way to the north facade.

-----

NIST page 41-91

On the 81st floor, the fuselage pulverized a section of the floor 40 ft wide that extended into the southeast comer of the core. The SFRM and gypsum fire protection on the full depth of the east side of the core and in the entire east side of the tenant space was stripped. The structural damage to the core columns was limited to near the southeast corner, but as mentioned above, the impulses felt here caused damage to the key corner column all the way down to the 78th floor. The right engine passed all the way through the 81st floor, exited from the northeast corner, and damaged the roof of a building on Church Street, before coming to rest some 1,500 ft northeast of WTC 2 near the corner of Murray and Church Streets. The right landing gear assembly passed through the 81st floor at the east side of the north face and landed near the engine on the roof of a building on Park Place. (See Figure 1-1 for the street locations relative to the towers.)

The right engine hit the 82nd floor spandrels about 50 ft from the east edge of the building, crushing part of the 82nd floor slab. Along with the inboard section of the right wing, it severed eight to nine perimeter columns, including some to the east of those severed on the lower floors. The wing caused truss damage up to the southeast corner of the core and severed five columns. As on the 81st floor, the fire protection on the east side of the tenant space and the east side of the core was dislodged.

The 83rd floor caught the middle of the starboard wing. The east side floor slab appeared to be dislodged and sagged at least half of the way into the building.

The result of the core column damage was that the building core leaned slightly to the southeast above the impact zone. The tendency of the core to lean was resisted by the floors and the hat truss.

The direct impact of the aircraft was over in about 0.6 s. The structural and insulation damage, summed over all floors, was estimated to be:

The tower swayed more than one foot back and forth in each direction on the impact floors, about one-third the sway under the high winds for which the building was designed. Nonetheless, just like WTC 1 across the Plaza, WTC 2 absorbed the aircraft strike and remained standing.


nolu_chan  posted on  2007-05-27   0:41:37 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 5.

#11. To: nolu_chan (#5) (Edited)

The report is full of contradictions from section to section. NIST had to have more damage in the WTC2 because it fell first. Plainly, the aircraft may have missed the core completely, or at most, damaged 1-3 collumns.

As much as NIST states how important the hat truss was to the wtc, it models simulations without it.

The aircraft was just about crushed on impact by the outer collumns and floors slabs. The time frame was from .02-.03.

WTC1 was a dead, head on middle strike, yet WTC1 has less damage than WTC2. NIST states that only one core collumn could be severed/failed by a direct engine strike. How do they account for all the failed and severed core collumns?

As you have noted, a landing gear exited the south face of WTC1, also a engine, landing gear and also some fuselodge exited WTC2.

In the computer aircraft impact/debris modeling, NIST could never get the simulations to duplicate the exiting of all the aircraft debris. No matter if A, B, C, or D cases were ran. So, all cases were incorrect and did not match real observed events.

Kamala  posted on  2007-05-27 07:26:48 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 5.

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