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Title: Dem debate: Obama had a great statement
Source: me
URL Source: http://www.mememe.com
Published: Jun 3, 2007
Author: Me
Post Date: 2007-06-03 23:37:59 by Mekons4
Keywords: None
Views: 1629
Comments: 28

I'm already sold on Obama, but his line tonight that "fiscal responsibility is a progressive value" really hit home. I've always felt that a balanced budget and wiping out national debt is the best tax cut you can get. It truly floats all boats.

His statements about the squeeze on the middle class, universal healthcare, and the war all resonated with me.

I only watched some highlights, so I can't say who won or lost, although Richardson evidently didn't do well, but Obama is bringing the topics I want to hear about to the fore.

The war is probably my main issue, but it's a relatively short-term problem. Bush has EXPLODED the national deficit, and that, along with some sort of affordable, universal healthcare, are probably my two main long-term concerns.

We're going to end up individually bankrupt due to medical bills and paying off the interest on an $11 trillion national debt, and nationally, we're going to be a colony of China if this keeps up.

I think Obama is going to resonate with a lot of people, both Dems and others, next year. Whether he can beat Clinton and Edwards, I don't know, but I think he's offering something new from the Dem side.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 19.

#4. To: Mekons4 (#0)

You'll note that not one of these Dems has a clue what any of this will cost nor do they have a clue as to how to pay for any of it.

Here's a hint: It'll be EXPENSIVE and YOU will pay through the nose for it.

Besides, where do you find "Universal Health Care" in the US Constitution?

These guys have never read it and are happy to wipe their asses with it.

mirage  posted on  2007-06-03   23:53:48 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: mirage (#4)

Besides, where do you find "Universal Health Care" in the US Constitution?

The same place you find workman's comp, social security, bank regulation, the GI Bill, the highway construction program, and a million other worthwhile uses of the public dollar. As a society grows and develops, it introduces more benefits for its citizens. That's the only purpose of a society. Once it stops doing that, it's through.

I dunno about you, but I have no interest in going back to a world where the life expectancy was 42. Or where only the very wealthy could attend college. Or where it took four days to go from Boston to New York. Or where an accident at work doomed an entire family to starvation.

Mekons4  posted on  2007-06-04   1:28:39 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Mekons4 (#9)

I dunno about you...

If you'd read the US Constitution, you'll find it has a process to amend it.

If its so important to become a Communist nation, then let's do it the right way at least.

The problem with our society is that we are an Entitlement Society. Everyone wants it all and they want it now. They aren't willing to do the real work it takes to make it happen the right way.

So they take a shortcut. Seems that there is a lot of advocacy for that. Which laws may I ignore too?

Now, with $9 Trillion in debt (and growing) and $59 Trillion minimum in unfunded liabilities, we want to spend ourselves into oblivion? Enjoy the 90% marginal tax rates. Obama wants amnesty and a massive increase in immigration too.

Also, understand that putting all of this into place is going to make what happened to Argentina and the former Soviet Union look like a walk in the park.

So, if you feel you are entitled to your neighbor's wallet, by all means, cast your ballot to send the goons with guns to pick it for you. Just understand that in doing so, you're also picking your own pocket. Nothing is free. Nothing.

This time, the bill will be QUITE heavy. I trust your offspring won't need an inheritance. Obama will spend it for you.

mirage  posted on  2007-06-04   2:30:31 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: mirage (#10)

$9 trillion and going to $12 trillion by the time Bush leaves office. It was $3 trillion and shrinking when Clinton left office. Don't blame debt on social services. We were doing fine until Bush came along, started stupid wars, gave an undeserved tax cut to people who didn't need one, passed a disastrous prescription bill that is really a payoff to the pharmaceutical and HMO industries, etc.

The purpose of a society is to make the lives of its citizens better. Not a small fraction of its citizens, all of them.

Healthcare now is a hodgepodge of for-profit organizations, mainly the insurance companies, who are barely overseen, much less regulated. This is a prescription for disaster, and we're getting it. Nearly 50 million citizens have no healthcare insurance, and if you want to buy it, it's $10K a year, which you can't even write off on your taxes. Sure sounds fair to me, when the wealthy can write off losses on their stock investments, and pay a low rate on their stock profits.

I live in a city. I don't need highways. So why don't we cut all spending on highways? If you use them, you're stealing from me. I can come up with examples like this all night, btw. We pay taxes to produce a better society. I think my tax dollars should go to providing low-cost healthcare to every citizen who needs it. I'd cheerfully cut the Pentagon's budget by $20 billion to pay for it, and that would only mean cutting off a few wasteful earmarks to build missile and other weapon programs the Pentagon doesn't even want.

If you want to make the argument that we shouldn't pay ANY taxes, fine. Ain't gonna happen. So if we're going to steal from each other's wallets anyway, I think it should be spent on things like health, education, food, and other stuff that makes people's lives better, not on military bases, wasteful wars, farm subsidies, welfare for those who don't want to work, and so on.

We piss away more money on "the troops" (really, the bureaucrats) than it would cost to make healthcare virtually free to every American.

Mekons4  posted on  2007-06-04   22:52:08 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Mekons4 (#17)

It was $3 trillion and shrinking when Clinton left office.

Shrinking???

Care to post a link with the figures indicating "shrinkage"???

Cynicom  posted on  2007-06-04   23:01:00 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Cynicom (#18)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/411973.stm

For the first time in 25 years, the US Government plans to reduce the size of the national debt.

The news represents a transformation of the US budget position, after struggling with huge deficits for most of the last decade.

[ image: US Treasury Secretary Summers wants to cut the debt] US Treasury Secretary Summers wants to cut the debt And it comes as a riposte to Republican plans to use the budget surplus to fund more tax cuts.

The last time the US tried to reduce its debt was in 1972.

It now says it will begin repurchasing Treasury bonds before they fall due, as early as next February, cutting back on the $3.6 trillion (£2.4 trillion) it owes to the public.

I'll add that the national deficit shrank steadily under Clinton, after exploding from $1 trillion in our entire history through Carter, to over $3 trillion under Reagan and to a lesser extent, Bush 1. Clinton was the best thing that ever happened to financial responsibility. You may remember that Republicans went berserk when Clinton raised taxes on the wealthiest, predicting in 1993 that we would be in a recession instantly. You may also remember what happened next -- the most prosperous decade in history for the middle class, apart from the GI Bill-fueled 50s.

Mekons4  posted on  2007-06-04   23:16:28 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 19.

#21. To: Mekons4 (#19)

For the first time in 25 years, the US Government plans to reduce the size of the national debt.

I would like a link to a Federal government chart that shows the shrinkage you said was occuring.

Cynicom  posted on  2007-06-04 23:21:21 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: Mekons4 (#19)

the most prosperous decade in history for the middle class, apart from the GI Bill-fueled 50s.

That was due to Alan Greenspan and low interest rates which brought on the dot-com boom. It had nothing to do with Clinton. Interest rates were low in the 1950s as well, just so you know.

According to the Bureau of Public Debt the debt did not go down under Clinton.

That is for one reason: The Social Security Trust Fund. Bear in mind that the SS "Trust Fund" is no such thing. The taxes paid are dumped into the General Fund and immediately spent. The Government then issues an IOU to the Social Security Administration.

Here are the official US Government Debt figures (total debt including intra-governmental holdings) from 1990 to 2000:

09/30/2000 5,674,178,209,886.86
09/30/1999 5,656,270,901,615.43
09/30/1998 5,526,193,008,897.62
09/30/1997 5,413,146,011,397.34
09/30/1996 5,224,810,939,135.73
09/29/1995 4,973,982,900,709.39
09/30/1994 4,692,749,910,013.32
09/30/1993 4,411,488,883,139.38
09/30/1992 4,064,620,655,521.66
09/30/1991 3,665,303,351,697.03
09/28/1990 3,233,313,451,777.25

As you can see, it was only at the end of Clinton's second term that the debt began to slow down. Then we had the dot-com recession and the 9/11 attacks.

Even if Clinton had been in office for a third term, the dot-com crash and recession would have hit and the debt would have gone up because of "fiscal stimulus" the Government would have applied.

The only real difference might have been avoiding the Iraq War, but the debt would have continued to escalate regardless.

No Federal Budget in recent (read: last 40 years) has been lower than the previous year's. None.

mirage  posted on  2007-06-05 00:13:05 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 19.

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