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Title: Dem debate: Obama had a great statement
Source: me
URL Source: http://www.mememe.com
Published: Jun 3, 2007
Author: Me
Post Date: 2007-06-03 23:37:59 by Mekons4
Keywords: None
Views: 1619
Comments: 28

I'm already sold on Obama, but his line tonight that "fiscal responsibility is a progressive value" really hit home. I've always felt that a balanced budget and wiping out national debt is the best tax cut you can get. It truly floats all boats.

His statements about the squeeze on the middle class, universal healthcare, and the war all resonated with me.

I only watched some highlights, so I can't say who won or lost, although Richardson evidently didn't do well, but Obama is bringing the topics I want to hear about to the fore.

The war is probably my main issue, but it's a relatively short-term problem. Bush has EXPLODED the national deficit, and that, along with some sort of affordable, universal healthcare, are probably my two main long-term concerns.

We're going to end up individually bankrupt due to medical bills and paying off the interest on an $11 trillion national debt, and nationally, we're going to be a colony of China if this keeps up.

I think Obama is going to resonate with a lot of people, both Dems and others, next year. Whether he can beat Clinton and Edwards, I don't know, but I think he's offering something new from the Dem side.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 23.

#4. To: Mekons4 (#0)

You'll note that not one of these Dems has a clue what any of this will cost nor do they have a clue as to how to pay for any of it.

Here's a hint: It'll be EXPENSIVE and YOU will pay through the nose for it.

Besides, where do you find "Universal Health Care" in the US Constitution?

These guys have never read it and are happy to wipe their asses with it.

mirage  posted on  2007-06-03   23:53:48 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: mirage (#4)

Besides, where do you find "Universal Health Care" in the US Constitution?

The same place you find workman's comp, social security, bank regulation, the GI Bill, the highway construction program, and a million other worthwhile uses of the public dollar. As a society grows and develops, it introduces more benefits for its citizens. That's the only purpose of a society. Once it stops doing that, it's through.

I dunno about you, but I have no interest in going back to a world where the life expectancy was 42. Or where only the very wealthy could attend college. Or where it took four days to go from Boston to New York. Or where an accident at work doomed an entire family to starvation.

Mekons4  posted on  2007-06-04   1:28:39 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Mekons4 (#9)

I dunno about you...

If you'd read the US Constitution, you'll find it has a process to amend it.

If its so important to become a Communist nation, then let's do it the right way at least.

The problem with our society is that we are an Entitlement Society. Everyone wants it all and they want it now. They aren't willing to do the real work it takes to make it happen the right way.

So they take a shortcut. Seems that there is a lot of advocacy for that. Which laws may I ignore too?

Now, with $9 Trillion in debt (and growing) and $59 Trillion minimum in unfunded liabilities, we want to spend ourselves into oblivion? Enjoy the 90% marginal tax rates. Obama wants amnesty and a massive increase in immigration too.

Also, understand that putting all of this into place is going to make what happened to Argentina and the former Soviet Union look like a walk in the park.

So, if you feel you are entitled to your neighbor's wallet, by all means, cast your ballot to send the goons with guns to pick it for you. Just understand that in doing so, you're also picking your own pocket. Nothing is free. Nothing.

This time, the bill will be QUITE heavy. I trust your offspring won't need an inheritance. Obama will spend it for you.

mirage  posted on  2007-06-04   2:30:31 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: mirage (#10)

$9 trillion and going to $12 trillion by the time Bush leaves office. It was $3 trillion and shrinking when Clinton left office. Don't blame debt on social services. We were doing fine until Bush came along, started stupid wars, gave an undeserved tax cut to people who didn't need one, passed a disastrous prescription bill that is really a payoff to the pharmaceutical and HMO industries, etc.

The purpose of a society is to make the lives of its citizens better. Not a small fraction of its citizens, all of them.

Healthcare now is a hodgepodge of for-profit organizations, mainly the insurance companies, who are barely overseen, much less regulated. This is a prescription for disaster, and we're getting it. Nearly 50 million citizens have no healthcare insurance, and if you want to buy it, it's $10K a year, which you can't even write off on your taxes. Sure sounds fair to me, when the wealthy can write off losses on their stock investments, and pay a low rate on their stock profits.

I live in a city. I don't need highways. So why don't we cut all spending on highways? If you use them, you're stealing from me. I can come up with examples like this all night, btw. We pay taxes to produce a better society. I think my tax dollars should go to providing low-cost healthcare to every citizen who needs it. I'd cheerfully cut the Pentagon's budget by $20 billion to pay for it, and that would only mean cutting off a few wasteful earmarks to build missile and other weapon programs the Pentagon doesn't even want.

If you want to make the argument that we shouldn't pay ANY taxes, fine. Ain't gonna happen. So if we're going to steal from each other's wallets anyway, I think it should be spent on things like health, education, food, and other stuff that makes people's lives better, not on military bases, wasteful wars, farm subsidies, welfare for those who don't want to work, and so on.

We piss away more money on "the troops" (really, the bureaucrats) than it would cost to make healthcare virtually free to every American.

Mekons4  posted on  2007-06-04   22:52:08 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Mekons4 (#17)

The purpose of a society is to make the lives of its citizens better. Not a small fraction of its citizens, all of them.

"From each according to his ability to each according to his need." - Karl Marx

The purpose of a Government is to protect its Citizens' rights and safety. It is not to rob from Peter to pay Paul.

The function of society is to encourage people to succeed and help them when they need help. It is not the function of society to cater to its residents' whims or provide them their every desire.

mirage  posted on  2007-06-04   23:17:16 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: mirage (#20)

It is not the function of society to cater to its residents' whims or provide them their every desire.

Getting treatment for cancer is hardly a whim. I have no problem with paying taxes, and I pay a lot, IMO. I do have a problem with a government that wastes it on corporate welfare, militarism, propping up billionaire "farmers," etc. I want my money spent on things that actually help people.

I just watched Ron Paul on The Daily Show, and I respect his ideas. But leaving medical care as a for-profit industry makes as much sense as making the military a private enterprise. It's too big an issue to leave to sharks.

The free market does not cure all problems. Our country has been successful because we have a regulated free market. In the times when we allowed corporations to run wild, the result was sweatshops, rampant dishonesty (dyeing meat red, just for one example), corruption, and misery for the middle and working classes.

Mekons4  posted on  2007-06-04   23:31:54 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 23.

#26. To: Mekons4 (#23)

The free market does cure all problems. In the 1950s, nobody had health insurance, but everyone could pay their medical bills.

What happened in between? Answer that question (Government) and you'll have the answer.

Remember - the more you want Government to get involved, the fewer choices and less freedom you have.

Do you want the Government to dictate what medical care you get? That is what Socialized Medicine gets you.

What we really need is Tort Reform along with lower malpractice rates and an end to the Government Handouts. Hospital bills are high because hospitals are required to treat anyone - regardless of expense - and they pass the bill along to you.

Again, Government Interference drives up the costs.

So, be careful what you wish for -- you may just get it. Also, as a wise man once said, "If you think its expensive now, just wait until its free."

mirage  posted on  2007-06-04 23:54:44 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 23.

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