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Science/Tech
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Title: Bees dropping like flies
Source: http://www.latimes.com/
URL Source: http://www.latimes.com/news/science ... 2658.story?coll=la-home-center
Published: Jun 9, 2007
Author: http://www.latimes.com/
Post Date: 2007-06-09 22:28:41 by robin
Keywords: None
Views: 4107
Comments: 218

Mysterious deaths of bees take broad toll
As scientists try to explain why colonies are vanishing, worried beekeepers and farmers add up their losses.

By Jia-Rui Chong and Thomas H. Maugh II
Times Staff Writers

June 10, 2007

The dead bees under Dennis vanEngelsdorp's microscope were like none he had ever seen before.

He had expected to see mites or amoebas, perennial pests of bees. Instead, he found internal organs swollen with debris and strangely blackened. The bees' intestinal tracts were scarred, and their rectums were abnormally full of what appeared to be partly digested pollen. Dark marks on the sting glands were telltale signs of infection.

"The more you looked, the more you found," said VanEngelsdorp, the acting apiarist for the state of Pennsylvania. "Each thing was a surprise."

VanEngelsdorp's examination of the bees in November was one of the first scientific glimpses of a mysterious honeybee die-off that has launched an intense search for a cure.

The puzzling phenomenon, known as Colony Collapse Disorder, or CCD, has been reported in 35 states, five Canadian provinces and several European countries. The die-off has cost U.S. beekeepers about $150 million in losses and an uncertain amount for farmers scrambling to find bees to pollinate their crops.

Scientists have scoured the country, finding eerily abandoned hives in which the bees seem to have simply left their honey and broods of baby bees.

"We've never experienced bees going off and leaving brood behind," said Pennsylvania-based beekeeper Dave Hackenberg. "It was like a mother going off and leaving her kids."

Researchers have picked through the abandoned hives, dissected thousands of bees, and tested for viruses, bacteria, pesticides and mites.

So far, they are stumped.

According to the Apiary Inspectors of America, 24% of 384 beekeeping operations across the country lost more than 50% of their colonies from September to March. Some have lost 90%.

"I'm worried about the bees," said Dan Boyer, 52, owner of Ridgetop Orchards in Fishertown, Pa., which grows apples. "The more I learn about it, the more I think it is a national tragedy."

At Boyer's orchard, 400 acres of apple trees — McIntosh, Honey Crisp, Red Delicious and 11 other varieties — have just begun to bud white flowers.

Boyer's trees need to be pollinated. Incompletely pollinated blooms would still grow apples, he said, but the fruit would be small and misshapen, suitable only for low-profit juice.

This year, he will pay dearly for the precious bees — $13,000 for 200 hives, the same price that 300 hives cost him last year.

The scene is being repeated throughout the country, where honeybees, scientifically known as Apis mellifera, are required to pollinate a third of the nation's food crop, including almonds, cherries, blueberries, pears, strawberries and pumpkins.

Vanishing colonies

One of the earliest alarms was sounded by Hackenberg, who used to keep about 3,000 hives in dandelion-covered fields near the Susquehanna River in Pennsylvania.

In November, Hackenberg, 58, was at his winter base in Florida. He peeked in on a group of 400 beehives he had driven down from his home in West Milton, Pa., a month before. He went from empty box to empty box. Only about 40 had bees in them.

"It was just the most phenomenal thing I thought I'd ever seen," he said.

The next morning, Hackenberg called Jerry Hayes, the chief of apiary inspection at the Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services and president of the Apiary Inspectors of America.

Hayes mentioned some bee die-offs in Georgia that, until then, hadn't seemed significant.

Hackenberg drove back to West Milton with a couple of dead beehives and live colonies that had survived. He handed them over to researchers at Pennsylvania State University.

With amazing speed, the bees vanished from his other hives, more than 70% of which were abandoned by February.

Hackenberg, a talkative, wiry man with a deeply lined face, figured he lost more than $460,000 this winter for replacement bees, lost honey and missed pollination opportunities.

"If that happens again, we're out of business," he said.

It didn't take researchers long to figure out they were dealing with something new.

VanEngelsdorp, a sandy-bearded 37-year-old, quickly eliminated the most obvious suspects: Varroa and tracheal mites, which have occasionally wrought damage on hives since the 1980s.

At the state lab in Harrisburg, Pa., VanEngelsdorp checked bee samples from Pennsylvania and Georgia. He washed bees with soapy water to dislodge Varroa mites and cut the thorax of the bees to look for tracheal mites; he found that the number of mites was not unusually high.

His next guess was amoebic infection. He scanned the bees' kidneys for cysts and found a handful, but not enough to explain the population decline.

VanEngelsdorp dug through scientific literature looking for other mass disappearances.

He found the first reference in a 1869 federal report, detailing a mysterious bee disappearance. There was only speculation as to the cause — possibly poisonous honey or maybe a hot summer.

A 1923 handbook on bee culture noted that a "disappearing disease" went away in a short time without treatment. There was a reference to "fall dwindle" in a 1965 scientific article to describe sudden disappearances in Texas and Louisiana.

He found other references but no explanations.

VanEngelsdorp traveled to Florida and California at the beginning of the year to collect adult bees, brood, nectar, pollen and comb for a more systematic study. He went to 11 apiaries, both sick and healthy, and collected 102 colonies.

A number of the pollen samples went to Maryann Frazier, a honeybee specialist at Penn State who has been coordinating the pesticide investigation. Her group has been testing for 106 chemicals used to kill mites, funguses or other pests.

Scientists have focused on a new group of pesticides known as neonicotinoids, which have spiked in popularity because they are safe for people, Frazier said. Previous studies have shown that these pesticides can kill bees and throw off their ability to learn and navigate, she said.

Researchers have yet to collect enough data to come to any conclusions, but the experience of French beekeepers casts doubt on the theory. France banned the most commonly used neonicotinoid in 1999 after complaints from beekeepers that it was killing their colonies. French hives, however, are doing no better now, experts said.

Sniffing out the culprit

Entomologist Jerry J. Bromenshenk of the University of Montana launched his own search for poisons, relying on the enhanced odor sensitivity of bees — about 40 times better than that of humans.

When a colony is exposed to a new chemical odor, he said, its sound changes in volume and frequency, producing a unique audio signature.

Bromenshenk has been visiting beekeepers around the country, recording hive sounds and taking them back to his lab for analysis. To date, no good candidates have surfaced.

If the cause is not a poison, it is most likely a parasite.

UC San Francisco researchers announced in April that they had found a single-celled protozoan called Nosema ceranae in bees from colonies with the collapse disorder.

Unfortunately, Bromenshenk said, "we see equal levels of Nosema in CCD colonies and healthy colonies."

Several researchers, including entomologist Diana Cox-Foster of Penn State and Dr. W. Ian Lipkin, a virologist at Columbia University, have been sifting through bees that have been ground up, looking for viruses and bacteria.

"We were shocked by the huge number of pathogens present in each adult bee," Cox-Foster said at a recent meeting of bee researchers convened by the U.S. Department of Agriculture.

The large number of pathogens suggested, she said, that the bees' immune systems had been suppressed, allowing the proliferation of infections.

The idea that a pathogen is involved is supported by recent experiments conducted by VanEngelsdorp and USDA entomologist Jeffrey S. Pettis.

One of the unusual features of the disorder is that the predators of abandoned beehives, such as hive beetles and wax moths, refuse to venture into infected hives for weeks or longer.

"It's as if there is something repellent or toxic about the colony," said Hayes, the Florida inspector.

To test this idea, VanEngelsdorp and Pettis set up 200 beehive boxes with new, healthy bees from Australia and placed them in the care of Hackenberg.

Fifty of the hives were irradiated to kill potential pathogens. Fifty were fumigated with concentrated acetic acid, a hive cleanser commonly used in Canada. Fifty were filled with honey frames that had been taken from Hackenberg's colonies before the collapse, and the last 50 were hives that had been abandoned that winter.

When VanEngelsdorp visited the colonies at the beginning of May, bees in the untouched hive were clearly struggling, filling only about a quarter of a frame. Bees living on the reused honeycomb were alive but not thriving. A hive that had been fumigated with acetic acid was better.

When he popped open an irradiated hive, bees were crawling everywhere. "This does imply there is something biological," he said.

If it is a pathogen or a parasite, honeybees are poorly equipped to deal with it, said entomologist May Berenbaum of the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign.

The honeybee genome has only half as many genes to detoxify poisons and to fight off infections as do other insects.

"There is something about the life of the honeybee that has led to the loss of a lot of genes associated with detoxification, associated with the immune system," she said.

Bee conspiracies

In the absence of knowledge, theories have proliferated, including one that Osama bin Laden has engineered the die-off to disrupt American agriculture.

One of the most pervasive theories is that cellphone transmissions are causing the disappearances — an idea that originated with a recent German study. Berenbaum called the theory "a complete figment of the imagination."

The German physicist who conducted the tiny study "disclaimed the connection to cellphones," she said. "What they put in the colony was a cordless phone. Whoever translated the story didn't know the difference."

Another popular theory is that the bees have been harmed by corn genetically engineered to contain the pesticide B.t.

Berenbaum shot down the idea: "Here in Illinois, we're surrounded by an ocean of B.t. pollen, and the bees are not afflicted."

And so the search continues.

Many beekeepers have few options but to start rebuilding. Gene Brandi, a veteran beekeeper based in Los Banos, Calif., lost 40% of his 2,000 colonies this winter.

Brandi knows plenty of beekeepers who sold their equipment at bargain prices.

Scurrying around a blackberry farm near Watsonville, Brandi was restocking his bees. Dressed in a white jumpsuit and yellow bee veil, the exuberant 55-year-old pulled out a frame of honeycomb from a hive that had so many bees they were spilling out the front entrance.

"When it's going good like this, you forget CCD," he said.

Hackenberg, who has spent his whole life in the business, isn't giving up either. He borrowed money and restocked with bees from Australia.

In April, the normally hale Hackenberg started feeling short of breath. His doctor said he was suffering from stress and suggested he slow down.

Not now, Hackenberg thought. "I'm going to go down fighting."

jia-rui.chong@latimes.com, thomas.maugh@latimes.com

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 177.

#1. To: robin (#0)

So far, they are stumped.

Why is there no mention of chemtrails?

Maybe we could consult the ghosts of the mysteriously murdered and/or missing microbiologists.

WTF?  posted on  2007-06-09   22:43:04 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: WTF? (#1)

Why is there no mention of chemtrails?

Maybe we could consult the ghosts of the mysteriously murdered and/or missing microbiologists.

Two very interesting and pertinent observations. The two could even go hand and hand so to speak.

FormerLurker  posted on  2007-06-10   0:16:46 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: FormerLurker, WTF? (#15)

I just had bee people at my house. There was a swarm in the neighbors tree that over hangs my property. I called a bee keeper to come get them. They said they have about 3000 hives. Well now they have 3001.

farmfriend  posted on  2007-06-10   0:19:54 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: farmfriend (#16)

FF, are there any chemtrails in your area? You know what they are right?

FormerLurker  posted on  2007-06-10   1:24:20 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: FormerLurker (#28)

You know what they are right?

Yes I know what they are. I not only had the bees swarming in the tree outside but I have plenty of fruit on my trees so they must have been around to polinate. We also get a lot of praying mantis on the deck.

farmfriend  posted on  2007-06-10   1:48:36 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: farmfriend (#30)

Yes I know what they are.

So do you see chemtrails in your area or not?

FormerLurker  posted on  2007-06-10   1:52:47 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: FormerLurker (#32)

So do you see chemtrails in your area or not?

No I don't see chemtrails.

farmfriend  posted on  2007-06-10   1:54:13 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: farmfriend, WTF? (#33)

No I don't see chemtrails.

Now that's interesting. I've spoken with several people on LP concerning this topic, and those that experienced bees dying off in their areas ALSO witnessed heavy CHEMTRAIL activity.

I think that's the connection, and the cause.

FormerLurker  posted on  2007-06-10   2:12:28 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: FormerLurker (#34)

I think that's the connection, and the cause.

I agree with BrerRabbits idea that it is systemic pesticides. He mentions ones that has been shown to damage bee memory. A bunch of bees will Alzheimer’s won't return to the hive.

farmfriend  posted on  2007-06-10   2:26:43 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: farmfriend, WTF?, JCHarris, Original_Intent, robin (#35)

I agree with BrerRabbits idea that it is systemic pesticides. He mentions ones that has been shown to damage bee memory. A bunch of bees will Alzheimer’s won't return to the hive.

A bunch of bees with Alzheimer's don't have suppressed immune systems. And from what I've read, there are immunosuppressive elements in the substances that form CHEMTRAILS.

The article specifically states that they cannot find any significant levels of pesticides, and that the agent appears to be biological in nature, as the hives that were irridated prior to allowing bees to settle in them florished, where the hives that were simply disinfected with chemicals or left alone altogether had very few bees that survived.

The agent that I suspect is the cause is called MYCOPLASMA , and is also found in Gulf War veterans with Gulf War Syndrome.

MYCOPLASMA PNEUMONIAE INFORMATION

The immunosuppressive effect of mycoplasma infection

Gulf War Syndrome

FormerLurker  posted on  2007-06-10   2:52:40 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#102. To: FormerLurker (#37)

don't have suppressed immune systems

No one has shown any information to indicate an exogenously, versus by endogenous parasite, suppression of the immune system.

One study collected dead bees at the hive entrance and reported on myriad parasites and pathogens....exactly what you would expect from aged dead bees.

Another study noted the "forgetfulness" syndrome and the attempt to form wild hives which , naturally, succumbed to infestations because they were not under the care of beekeepers and management practices to defeat mites etc.

The best study so far is one in which multiple hives were sterilized with radiation or not sterilized and then placed in the same environment. The colonies in the sterilized hives did much better than the "identical" colonies in the non-sterilized hives.

This study indicates a pathogen rather than a chemical.

The alternate oremise is neo-nicotinoids which have spikes in usage by ChemLawn, the agribusiness etc in just the last three years. The neo-nicotinoids have definitively been shown in the past to produce " Alzheimers like forgetting behavior" similar or the same as witnessed in Colony Collapse Disorder.

The sterilization of hives study lends new impetus to a pathogen.

Neo-nicotinoids are also still on the table.

Normal die-offs and the usual pests are not except as opportunists allowed dominance by an added pathogen or neo-nicotinoids.

Time will tell.

JCHarris  posted on  2007-06-10   12:13:24 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#106. To: JCHarris (#102)

This study indicates a pathogen rather than a chemical.

Precisely.

I wonder why there isn't any mention of tests related to spiroplasma considering France experienced a problem with that very thing regarding bees in 1984.

FormerLurker  posted on  2007-06-10   12:51:12 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#109. To: FormerLurker, christine, innieway, farmfriend, Jethro Tull, IndieTx, Zipporah (#106)

The state beekeepers associations are the ones doing all this right now. There was recently a large meeting in Charlotte NC of just the scientists, those with documented observations, research committees and people like Wyatt Mangum, a mathematics professor, et al. who carry the water for everybody at no compensation.

There is little federal funding beyond the same shills 'churning ' for the past decade the same old crap over and over for grants as cronies of those who dole out the funds.

Beekeepers are traditionally not liked by the NeoCons and Federal government liberals. They are far too independent and that trait was destined to be attacked twenty or more years ago.

All efforts are being expended and there are some very savvy beekeeping scientists...outside the Shilldom of the NeoCon Crony Federal Juggernaut.

JCHarris  posted on  2007-06-10   13:08:43 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#110. To: JCHarris (#109)

Western North Carolina and East Tennessee are heavy agricultural areas...if aerial spraying is going on to affect the bee population; what is happening to the vegetables all of this stuff is settling upon?

who knows what evil  posted on  2007-06-10   13:28:22 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#111. To: who knows what evil (#110)

.if aerial spraying is going on to affect the bee population; what is happening to the vegetables all of this stuff is settling upon?

There is little if any aerial "spraying" that I know of anymore. The practice is diminishing rapidly as herbicides like roundup ( glyphosate) are applied from tractors. I have never heard of neo-nicotinoids being applied by aerial spray although it is not impossible.

I believe BT ( Bacillus thuriengensis) may be applied by aerial spray for things like gypsy moth. Increasingly the spray is not needed because the BT toxin is in the corn itself.

JCHarris  posted on  2007-06-10   13:46:21 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#112. To: JCHarris (#111)

I was referring to the high altitude 'spraying' that many call 'chemtrails'. There were jets laying down criss-cross patterns all over WNC and East Tennessee around noon. Some believe this may affecting the bees, and who knows what else? Whatever it is...it's just hanging in the sky, lowering and spreading by the hour. I'll be staying inside today. :-)

who knows what evil  posted on  2007-06-10   14:07:17 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#113. To: who knows what evil (#112)

I was referring to the high altitude 'spraying' that many call 'chemtrails'. There were jets laying down criss-cross patterns all over WNC and East Tennessee around noon. Some believe this may affecting the bees, and who knows what else? Whatever it is...it's just hanging in the sky, lowering and spreading by the hour. I'll be staying inside today. :-)

IMO

an urban legend...

contrails, their width, appearance, longevity etc depend on the atmospheric conditions most closely related to relative humidity in the upper regions .

Want to know if it is going to rain? Look for the contrails to last and last and last ....thus stretch across the sky.

No contrails means it is not going to rain.

Connect the dots and count the X's

http://www.usairways.com/awa/content/routemap.aspx

http://www.continental.com/web/en-us/content/travel/routes/co-us_200706.pdf

http://www.mapempire.com/air.htm

JCHarris  posted on  2007-06-10   14:13:31 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#121. To: JCHarris, who knows what evil (#113)

IMO

an urban legend...

contrails, their width, appearance, longevity etc depend on the atmospheric conditions most closely related to relative humidity in the upper regions .

I think any halfway intelligent person beyond 1st grade knows what a contrail is. Many of us have been around for more than a few decades, and know what contrails look like, and what we've seen in the sky AT TIMES from 1996 onwards are NOT regular contrails. For lack of a better term, people call them CHEMTRAILS, as it is apparent that something is being sprayed.

The hot exhaust from a jet engine when hitting moist cold air causes water vapor to appear, but water vapor dissipates rather rapidly, and does not leave greenish purpleish highlights in the sky, nor does it expand into clouds.

People that deny this phenonemon exists must think that everybody that's seen it is either stupid, or simply making it up. Perhaps I'll post more info on it later today, for now I have to run.

FormerLurker  posted on  2007-06-10   15:47:00 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#123. To: FormerLurker (#121)

but water vapor dissipates rather rapidly

depends on atmospheric conditions....

it is a solubility issue of ice sublimation

JCHarris  posted on  2007-06-10   15:53:04 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#130. To: JCHarris, all on thread (#123)

The below is from an earlier 4UM thread on chemtrails. Much of the info proves that chemtrails are a mixture of some truths with outright lies. I have no doubt chemtrails are real; however, I have not seen any picture of so-called "chemtrails" that are not actually normally behaving contrails.

Chemtrails" are mentioned in House Bill HR 2977, the Space Preservation Act of 2001, introduced by Congressman Dennis Kucinich, where it appears as one of a list of "exotic weapons system[s]" to be banned under the bill. Proponents of the reality of chemtrails point to this as official acknowledgment of the possibility, at least, of such weapons systems. The reference to Chemtrails was omitted from the version of the bill re-introduced by Kucinich in 2002 as HR 3616 or in 2003 as HR 3657

j.sulli

Texas is 80's and windy. Lots of contrails over DFW VORTAC [as usual] all with different characteristics depending on the air's moisture content/altitude of airliners. Lots of crossing patterns, because the jets are all crossing the 8 VORTACs around the DFW area alone on different headings as they fly their IFR high-altitude jet routes, which make natural x and h patterns. These VORTACS are scattered all over the country relatively close together in both populated and remote areas. The number of contrail "patterns" possible is endless since aircraft may either be using the radio navigation aids, or cleared "direct" by passing the NAV stations and using GPS only.

Aging contrails over the midwest in more humid air.

I've seen this pattern nwith my own eyes and at first thought there is no explanation other than the pilot switching the "chemtrail" on and off. Contrails don't do this! [Oh yeah?]


[Right click the red print and open in new window] This Java applet will visually demonstrate how a contrail can and does go "on and off." [I've seen it] Place the red dot on ICE CURVE at or below [less than] 40 degrees Centigrade. Click FLY. Immediately you'll see the contrail. Then. drag the dot "downward" on the ICE line [warmer temp] just a touch to 39 degrees C. Let go. Then back the other way....Did you make your own contrail turn off and back on? I did. Do you think the temperature can vary in small horizontal distances by more than one degree C? Ever been in a pool or lake and felt the different temperatures as you swim?

It just doesn't get any clearer than this. A little research and even I debunked my own doubts about the "dashed line" contrail that I once thought was "proof" the pilot was turning the spray on and off.

So are there chemtrails? The military has been experimenting for years with substances to modify weather and to inhibit contrail formation for its stealth aircraft. There is no doubt they exist. However, every photo i have seen on any website which purports a "chemtrail" is actually a contrail behaving normally and I can prove it with science.

The question you should ask is why are the hucksters so obviously shooting themselves in the foot and discrediting the theorists in the meantime?

IndieTX  posted on  2007-06-10   17:59:45 ET  (3 images) Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#149. To: IndieTX (#130)

I have seen contrails that start and stop like what's pictured, but I have always been doubtful that they have been intentional. Just because patch of sky is clear does not mean that the conditions are uniform throughout that area. All it means is that none of the one or more conditions present are compatible for cloud formation. Humidity, wind speed and direction can all vary. Typically, weather reports to pilots include wind speed and direction at various altitudes since they don't all move the same.

And the picture even shows other clouds in the area. One logic question: If clouds can start and stop in an otherwise blue patch of sky, why couldn't a contrail?

I would not rule out modern jet engines being more prone to contrails than those of the 60's and 70's, or differing fuel compositions that could play a role, and I would certainly find it easy to believe that the airline industry would be willing to sacrifice our environment to better their profits, but I still doubt that pilots of commercial aircraft are dumping chemicals that are not "normal" exhaust via an on/off switch. Carrying such stuff to 30,000 feet would be an extra load on the plane and would burn more fuel, which translates to lost revenue for the airline carrier.

Then there's the question of what there is to gain from such chemical dumping. Winds at altitude are usually 40 MPH or thereabouts and any chemicals dumped would be hard to steer as it fell to the ground.

Neil McIver  posted on  2007-06-10   21:16:59 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#160. To: Neil McIver, JCHarris (#149)

You guys ever see anything like this when you were kids?

FormerLurker  posted on  2007-06-10   23:07:56 ET  (1 image) Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#162. To: FormerLurker, Neil McIver, ALL (#160)

My Dad was a fighter pilot and then an airline pilot.

I know what the difference between a chemtrail and a contrail is.

Chemtrails are aerosol spraying, contrails are exhaust.

I'm looking now for the documented contracts the US military has with ALL the airlines.

"They" are planning to wipe out 50 - 80% of the earth's population.

That's why I'm not out enjoying the "sunshine"!!!!!!!!!!

wudidiz  posted on  2007-06-10   23:17:25 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#164. To: wudidiz (#162)

My Dad was a fighter pilot and then an airline pilot.

I know what the difference between a chemtrail and a contrail is.

Chemtrails are aerosol spraying, contrails are exhaust.

I'm looking now for the documented contracts the US military has with ALL the airlines.

"They" are planning to wipe out 50 - 80% of the earth's population.

That's why I'm not out enjoying the "sunshine"!!!!!!!!!!

LOL

Each non sequitur was very good !

Congrats !

Cheers.

JC Harris

JCHarris  posted on  2007-06-10   23:19:57 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#165. To: JCHarris (#164)

non sequitur

Sorry, what's a non sequitur?

wudidiz  posted on  2007-06-10   23:21:15 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#166. To: All (#165)

Ron Paul voted AGAINST chemtrails.

wudidiz  posted on  2007-06-10   23:22:04 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#174. To: wudidiz (#166)

Ron Paul voted AGAINST chemtrails.

hahahahaha..that too. :P

christine  posted on  2007-06-10   23:51:24 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#176. To: christine (#174)

I knew something was funny.

;^)

He did vote against them, though.

wudidiz  posted on  2007-06-11   0:07:05 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#177. To: All (#176)

Chemtrails are REAL.

They are in the sky.

They are TOXIC.

The people responsible for putting them up there are planning to exterminate 50 - 80% of US.

Um...now I lost my train of thought.

wudidiz  posted on  2007-06-11   0:10:14 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 177.

#180. To: All (#177)

goin' out for some 'fresh' air.

wudidiz  posted on  2007-06-11 00:10:52 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#188. To: wudidiz (#177)

The people responsible for putting them up there are planning to exterminate 50 - 80% of US.

Um...now I lost my train of thought.

See, See, its working already.

tom007  posted on  2007-06-11 00:46:54 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 177.

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