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Title: Bees dropping like flies
Source:
http://www.latimes.com/
URL Source: http://www.latimes.com/news/science ... 2658.story?coll=la-home-center
Published: Jun 9, 2007
Author: http://www.latimes.com/
Post Date: 2007-06-09 22:28:41 by robin
Keywords: None
Views: 3690
Comments: 218
Mysterious deaths of bees take broad toll By Jia-Rui Chong and Thomas H. Maugh II June 10, 2007 The dead bees under Dennis vanEngelsdorp's microscope were like none he had ever seen before. He had expected to see mites or amoebas, perennial pests of bees. Instead, he found internal organs swollen with debris and strangely blackened. The bees' intestinal tracts were scarred, and their rectums were abnormally full of what appeared to be partly digested pollen. Dark marks on the sting glands were telltale signs of infection. "The more you looked, the more you found," said VanEngelsdorp, the acting apiarist for the state of Pennsylvania. "Each thing was a surprise." VanEngelsdorp's examination of the bees in November was one of the first scientific glimpses of a mysterious honeybee die-off that has launched an intense search for a cure. The puzzling phenomenon, known as Colony Collapse Disorder, or CCD, has been reported in 35 states, five Canadian provinces and several European countries. The die-off has cost U.S. beekeepers about $150 million in losses and an uncertain amount for farmers scrambling to find bees to pollinate their crops. Scientists have scoured the country, finding eerily abandoned hives in which the bees seem to have simply left their honey and broods of baby bees. "We've never experienced bees going off and leaving brood behind," said Pennsylvania-based beekeeper Dave Hackenberg. "It was like a mother going off and leaving her kids." Researchers have picked through the abandoned hives, dissected thousands of bees, and tested for viruses, bacteria, pesticides and mites. So far, they are stumped. According to the Apiary Inspectors of America, 24% of 384 beekeeping operations across the country lost more than 50% of their colonies from September to March. Some have lost 90%. "I'm worried about the bees," said Dan Boyer, 52, owner of Ridgetop Orchards in Fishertown, Pa., which grows apples. "The more I learn about it, the more I think it is a national tragedy." At Boyer's orchard, 400 acres of apple trees — McIntosh, Honey Crisp, Red Delicious and 11 other varieties — have just begun to bud white flowers. Boyer's trees need to be pollinated. Incompletely pollinated blooms would still grow apples, he said, but the fruit would be small and misshapen, suitable only for low-profit juice. This year, he will pay dearly for the precious bees — $13,000 for 200 hives, the same price that 300 hives cost him last year. The scene is being repeated throughout the country, where honeybees, scientifically known as Apis mellifera, are required to pollinate a third of the nation's food crop, including almonds, cherries, blueberries, pears, strawberries and pumpkins. Vanishing colonies One of the earliest alarms was sounded by Hackenberg, who used to keep about 3,000 hives in dandelion-covered fields near the Susquehanna River in Pennsylvania. In November, Hackenberg, 58, was at his winter base in Florida. He peeked in on a group of 400 beehives he had driven down from his home in West Milton, Pa., a month before. He went from empty box to empty box. Only about 40 had bees in them. "It was just the most phenomenal thing I thought I'd ever seen," he said. The next morning, Hackenberg called Jerry Hayes, the chief of apiary inspection at the Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services and president of the Apiary Inspectors of America. Hayes mentioned some bee die-offs in Georgia that, until then, hadn't seemed significant. Hackenberg drove back to West Milton with a couple of dead beehives and live colonies that had survived. He handed them over to researchers at Pennsylvania State University. With amazing speed, the bees vanished from his other hives, more than 70% of which were abandoned by February. Hackenberg, a talkative, wiry man with a deeply lined face, figured he lost more than $460,000 this winter for replacement bees, lost honey and missed pollination opportunities. "If that happens again, we're out of business," he said. It didn't take researchers long to figure out they were dealing with something new. VanEngelsdorp, a sandy-bearded 37-year-old, quickly eliminated the most obvious suspects: Varroa and tracheal mites, which have occasionally wrought damage on hives since the 1980s. At the state lab in Harrisburg, Pa., VanEngelsdorp checked bee samples from Pennsylvania and Georgia. He washed bees with soapy water to dislodge Varroa mites and cut the thorax of the bees to look for tracheal mites; he found that the number of mites was not unusually high. His next guess was amoebic infection. He scanned the bees' kidneys for cysts and found a handful, but not enough to explain the population decline. VanEngelsdorp dug through scientific literature looking for other mass disappearances. He found the first reference in a 1869 federal report, detailing a mysterious bee disappearance. There was only speculation as to the cause — possibly poisonous honey or maybe a hot summer. A 1923 handbook on bee culture noted that a "disappearing disease" went away in a short time without treatment. There was a reference to "fall dwindle" in a 1965 scientific article to describe sudden disappearances in Texas and Louisiana. He found other references but no explanations. VanEngelsdorp traveled to Florida and California at the beginning of the year to collect adult bees, brood, nectar, pollen and comb for a more systematic study. He went to 11 apiaries, both sick and healthy, and collected 102 colonies. A number of the pollen samples went to Maryann Frazier, a honeybee specialist at Penn State who has been coordinating the pesticide investigation. Her group has been testing for 106 chemicals used to kill mites, funguses or other pests. Scientists have focused on a new group of pesticides known as neonicotinoids, which have spiked in popularity because they are safe for people, Frazier said. Previous studies have shown that these pesticides can kill bees and throw off their ability to learn and navigate, she said. Researchers have yet to collect enough data to come to any conclusions, but the experience of French beekeepers casts doubt on the theory. France banned the most commonly used neonicotinoid in 1999 after complaints from beekeepers that it was killing their colonies. French hives, however, are doing no better now, experts said. Sniffing out the culprit Entomologist Jerry J. Bromenshenk of the University of Montana launched his own search for poisons, relying on the enhanced odor sensitivity of bees — about 40 times better than that of humans. When a colony is exposed to a new chemical odor, he said, its sound changes in volume and frequency, producing a unique audio signature. Bromenshenk has been visiting beekeepers around the country, recording hive sounds and taking them back to his lab for analysis. To date, no good candidates have surfaced. If the cause is not a poison, it is most likely a parasite. UC San Francisco researchers announced in April that they had found a single-celled protozoan called Nosema ceranae in bees from colonies with the collapse disorder. Unfortunately, Bromenshenk said, "we see equal levels of Nosema in CCD colonies and healthy colonies." Several researchers, including entomologist Diana Cox-Foster of Penn State and Dr. W. Ian Lipkin, a virologist at Columbia University, have been sifting through bees that have been ground up, looking for viruses and bacteria. "We were shocked by the huge number of pathogens present in each adult bee," Cox-Foster said at a recent meeting of bee researchers convened by the U.S. Department of Agriculture. The large number of pathogens suggested, she said, that the bees' immune systems had been suppressed, allowing the proliferation of infections. The idea that a pathogen is involved is supported by recent experiments conducted by VanEngelsdorp and USDA entomologist Jeffrey S. Pettis. One of the unusual features of the disorder is that the predators of abandoned beehives, such as hive beetles and wax moths, refuse to venture into infected hives for weeks or longer. "It's as if there is something repellent or toxic about the colony," said Hayes, the Florida inspector. To test this idea, VanEngelsdorp and Pettis set up 200 beehive boxes with new, healthy bees from Australia and placed them in the care of Hackenberg. Fifty of the hives were irradiated to kill potential pathogens. Fifty were fumigated with concentrated acetic acid, a hive cleanser commonly used in Canada. Fifty were filled with honey frames that had been taken from Hackenberg's colonies before the collapse, and the last 50 were hives that had been abandoned that winter. When VanEngelsdorp visited the colonies at the beginning of May, bees in the untouched hive were clearly struggling, filling only about a quarter of a frame. Bees living on the reused honeycomb were alive but not thriving. A hive that had been fumigated with acetic acid was better. When he popped open an irradiated hive, bees were crawling everywhere. "This does imply there is something biological," he said. If it is a pathogen or a parasite, honeybees are poorly equipped to deal with it, said entomologist May Berenbaum of the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. The honeybee genome has only half as many genes to detoxify poisons and to fight off infections as do other insects. "There is something about the life of the honeybee that has led to the loss of a lot of genes associated with detoxification, associated with the immune system," she said. Bee conspiracies In the absence of knowledge, theories have proliferated, including one that Osama bin Laden has engineered the die-off to disrupt American agriculture. One of the most pervasive theories is that cellphone transmissions are causing the disappearances — an idea that originated with a recent German study. Berenbaum called the theory "a complete figment of the imagination." The German physicist who conducted the tiny study "disclaimed the connection to cellphones," she said. "What they put in the colony was a cordless phone. Whoever translated the story didn't know the difference." Another popular theory is that the bees have been harmed by corn genetically engineered to contain the pesticide B.t. Berenbaum shot down the idea: "Here in Illinois, we're surrounded by an ocean of B.t. pollen, and the bees are not afflicted." And so the search continues. Many beekeepers have few options but to start rebuilding. Gene Brandi, a veteran beekeeper based in Los Banos, Calif., lost 40% of his 2,000 colonies this winter. Brandi knows plenty of beekeepers who sold their equipment at bargain prices. Scurrying around a blackberry farm near Watsonville, Brandi was restocking his bees. Dressed in a white jumpsuit and yellow bee veil, the exuberant 55-year-old pulled out a frame of honeycomb from a hive that had so many bees they were spilling out the front entrance. "When it's going good like this, you forget CCD," he said. Hackenberg, who has spent his whole life in the business, isn't giving up either. He borrowed money and restocked with bees from Australia. In April, the normally hale Hackenberg started feeling short of breath. His doctor said he was suffering from stress and suggested he slow down. Not now, Hackenberg thought. "I'm going to go down fighting." jia-rui.chong@latimes.com, thomas.maugh@latimes.com
As scientists try to explain why colonies are vanishing, worried beekeepers and farmers add up their losses.
Times Staff Writers
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#1. To: robin (#0)
Why is there no mention of chemtrails? Maybe we could consult the ghosts of the mysteriously murdered and/or missing microbiologists.
"It is the very nature of violent censure to give credibility to the opinions it attacks." ~ Voltaire
when conspiracies converge
"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." ~George Washington
I'm guessing that it's something in the chemtrails that's killing the bees. Notice how that's not mentioned? Why?
"It is the very nature of violent censure to give credibility to the opinions it attacks." ~ Voltaire
Illegal Immigration? Paris Hilton? What about the fucking AIR we're breathing?
"It is the very nature of violent censure to give credibility to the opinions it attacks." ~ Voltaire
http://www.rense.com/general18/five.htm http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/02_14_02_microbio.html "It is the very nature of violent censure to give credibility to the opinions it attacks." ~ Voltaire
she is a little buzzy
"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." ~George Washington
Notice how that's not mentioned? Why? http://j.l.navarro.tripod.com/jlnavarro/id23.html
"It is the very nature of violent censure to give credibility to the opinions it attacks." ~ Voltaire
she is a little buzzy lol :^)
"It is the very nature of violent censure to give credibility to the opinions it attacks." ~ Voltaire
"It is the very nature of violent censure to give credibility to the opinions it attacks." ~ Voltaire
Cell phones and pesticides have about as much to do with missing honeybees as Osama Bin Laden and Al Quaeda had to do with 9/11. imho
"It is the very nature of violent censure to give credibility to the opinions it attacks." ~ Voltaire
poor little bees
I don't really like bees, but this is kinda sad.
Holy shit, that is funny.....
Swimming around in my bourbon highball..... How can you not like honey bees??? Unless they are the mad African type. They will not sting unless you are assualting them. I kept them for pets in one house I lived in and fed them by hand. I cannot prove it, but do believe they recognized me some kinda way. Yellow jackets are a different creature.
Maybe we could consult the ghosts of the mysteriously murdered and/or missing microbiologists. Two very interesting and pertinent observations. The two could even go hand and hand so to speak.
I just had bee people at my house. There was a swarm in the neighbors tree that over hangs my property. I called a bee keeper to come get them. They said they have about 3000 hives. Well now they have 3001.
It's not Global Warming, it's Ice Age Abatement.
Is there an absence of chemtrails in your area?
eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek! i just had to kill a scorpion that got inside !!!!!
http://www.stevequayle.com/dead_scientists/UpdatedDeadScientists.html (Posted by TT previously today)
"It is the very nature of violent censure to give credibility to the opinions it attacks." ~ Voltaire
LOL! Yeah, in an eerie sort of way. ;^)
"It is the very nature of violent censure to give credibility to the opinions it attacks." ~ Voltaire
a scorpion??????? isn't that a poisonous spider? I don't believe I've ever seen one, or would know what it was if I did. eeeewwwwww. glad you got it before it got you :)
Yellow jackets are a different creature. I don't know the difference. beyond paying an exterminator monthly, I pay very little attention to bugs. but if you say honey bees are cute pets, I believe you.
We don't eat without honey bees.
It's not Global Warming, it's Ice Age Abatement.
A scorpion? Wow. That's a mean insect but also one of those critters whose populations have declined dramatically over the decades due to pesticides and other unknown environmental factors. They, along with turtles, praying mantises, walking sticks, horny toads, frogs and crawdads have almost disappeared in the "urban wild"...especially the once teaming rural areas that bordered suburban areas.
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition horned toads, horned toads.
Called 'em horny toads since I was old enough to talk ;)
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition (Posted by TT previously today) Wonder what it was that they knew that needed to be erased?
FF, are there any chemtrails in your area? You know what they are right?
A big'un or a little one? The big ones are bad the little ones, the Vinegaroon, are badder - their venom is more toxic.
Liberals want the government to be your Mommy. Conservatives want government to be your Daddy. Yes I know what they are. I not only had the bees swarming in the tree outside but I have plenty of fruit on my trees so they must have been around to polinate. We also get a lot of praying mantis on the deck.
Hopefully his mama isn't mad at you... :) So do you see chemtrails in your area or not?
No I don't see chemtrails.
Now that's interesting. I've spoken with several people on LP concerning this topic, and those that experienced bees dying off in their areas ALSO witnessed heavy CHEMTRAIL activity. I think that's the connection, and the cause.
I agree with BrerRabbits idea that it is systemic pesticides. He mentions ones that has been shown to damage bee memory. A bunch of bees will Alzheimer’s won't return to the hive.
FL That was one post. I have not seen any "chemtrails" and do not believe there are any other than contrails. And the research are of the North American Beekeepers Association begs to disagree also. As does the North Carolina Beekeepers Association in their meeting last month. There are nuclear physicists in this BA and they are not privy to your theory.
A bunch of bees with Alzheimer's don't have suppressed immune systems. And from what I've read, there are immunosuppressive elements in the substances that form CHEMTRAILS. The article specifically states that they cannot find any significant levels of pesticides, and that the agent appears to be biological in nature, as the hives that were irridated prior to allowing bees to settle in them florished, where the hives that were simply disinfected with chemicals or left alone altogether had very few bees that survived. The agent that I suspect is the cause is called MYCOPLASMA , and is also found in Gulf War veterans with Gulf War Syndrome. MYCOPLASMA PNEUMONIAE INFORMATION Unfortunately, Bromenshenk said, "we see equal levels of Nosema in CCD colonies and healthy colonies." Now THAT was a really useful study !
Yes.
If Mad Dog calls, I'm not here.
So what do you think about the possibility of weaponized mycoplasma, or some other Mollicute, as the cause of CCD?
From Some biological features of Mollicutes [PDF] [Edited link - FL] Ping to 41
this link goes back to this page.
If Mad Dog calls, I'm not here.
Thanks wud for letting me know. Hey, did you change your handle?
Spiroplasmas are motile and show helicoidal morphology, they are frequently isolated from intestine, salivary glands, homocele of insects and the surface of plants and flowers.46,13 Spiroplasma melliferum and Spiroplasma apis are pathogenic for bees, they cross the intestine barrier reaching hemolinfa where they reproduce and induce death of their host.4 Spiroplasma have also been reported in Aedes aegypti mosquito reducing the fertility of the insects, opening the possibility of their use as biological control of mosquito. If it IS Spiroplasma, a form of Mollicute that is known to attack the intestines of bees causing death, there's a bit more to worry about if they are present in CHEMTRAILS... From the main article... He had expected to see mites or amoebas, perennial pests of bees. Instead, he found internal organs swollen with debris and strangely blackened. The bees' intestinal tracts were scarred, and their rectums were abnormally full of what appeared to be partly digested pollen. Dark marks on the sting glands were telltale signs of infection. It goes on... Fifty of the hives were irradiated to kill potential pathogens. Fifty were fumigated with concentrated acetic acid, a hive cleanser commonly used in Canada. Fifty were filled with honey frames that had been taken from Hackenberg's colonies before the collapse, and the last 50 were hives that had been abandoned that winter. When VanEngelsdorp visited the colonies at the beginning of May, bees in the untouched hive were clearly struggling, filling only about a quarter of a frame. Bees living on the reused honeycomb were alive but not thriving. A hive that had been fumigated with acetic acid was better. When he popped open an irradiated hive, bees were crawling everywhere. "This does imply there is something biological," he said. From reading the Spiroplasma & Transmissible Spongiform Encephalopathies link, it appears that Spiroplasmas are very hard to kill.. My tin foil hat is vibrating which means I think this shows signs of being man- made...excuse me...I mean CorporoFascist-made. An attack by agents of the StateInc to boost prices of commodities for their buddies in the Stock Market. IOW, treason; false flag. They are trying to kill us!
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition From Pathogenicity of Spiroplasma apis and other spiroplasmas for honey-bees in southwestern France. Mouches C, Bové JM, Albisetti J. The haemolymph of honey-bees affected by a May disease-like disorder in southwestern France contained numerous spiroplasmas. Further characterization of the organisms and pathogenicity assays showed that the causal agent of the disease was a spiroplasma belonging to group IV. The name Spiroplasma apis was given to the reference strain B31 (ATCC 33834), one of the numerous similar isolates cultured from May-disease-affected bees. Spiroplasma isolates related to S. apis could be grown from the surface of flowers collected within the area visited by bees from the diseased hives. Several other strains belonging to group IV spiroplasmas were also isolated from the surface of flowers growing in southwestern France. In the same area, we also isolated, from pools of apparently healthy honey-bees and from the surface of a tulip tree flower, spiroplasma strains belonging to group I-2. One of these strains was shown to be pathogenic when introduced into adult bees by injection or food ingestion. PMID: 6712058 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Spiroplasmas are almost certainly the agent behind Mad Cow disease, and the human form, CJD. That the bees are experiencing the same symptoms they would be if they were infected with spiroplasmas, certainly indicates we have a bit of a problem.
You may have been more right than I thought. See the posts above..
You may have been more right than I thought. A wasting disease caused by spiroplasmas certainly would appear to be similar to Alzheimer's. See the posts above..
Chemtrails have aluminum in them too.
If Mad Dog calls, I'm not here.
I could care less about the aluminum, I'd be REALLY concerned about spiroplama bacteria though, as it CAUSES Mad Cow, CJD, and Scrapies, otherwise known as Transmissible Spongiform Encephalopathies. Prions are the byproduct of these cell-less bacteria once they bond with a cell apparently. So the prions are just an indication of the disease, whereas the spiroplasma organism causes it. Did you read the link on that I had posted?
I got it all bookmarked, but there's too many big words for this time of the day for this camper. Aluminum causes short-term memory loss in humans as well as Alzheimers, it also causes other problems when mixed with Magnesium which is also in the chemtrails. I'm just trying to throw stuff in in case it MIGHT be of some help. :^)
I'm learning HTML 'n' stuff
Jeong H. Im, age 72. Died: January 7, 2005. Korean Jeong H. Im, died of multiple stab wounds to the chest before firefighters found in his body in the trunk of a burning car on the third level of the Maryland Avenue Garage. A retired research assistant professor at the University of Missouri - Columbia and primarily a protein chemist, MUPD with the assistance of the Columbia Police Department and Columbia Fire Department are conducting a death investigation of the incident. A "person of interest" described as a male 6'– 6'2" wearing some type of mask possible a painters mask or drywall type mask was seen in the area of the Maryland Avenue Garage. Dr. Im was primarily a protein chemist and he was a researcher in the field.
The bees aren't being poisoned, as the agent is BIOLOGICAL, as demonstrated by the experiments performed with the bee hives. The intestines are scarred, just as they would be by this particular bacteria, which bores through the intestinal wall. Thing is, it ALSO eats the brain.
Tom Thorne, age 64; Beth Williams, age 53; Died: December 29, 2004. Two wild life scientists, Husband-and-wife wildlife veterinarians who were nationally prominent experts on chronic wasting disease and brucellosis were killed in a snowy-weather crash on U.S. 287 in northern Colorado.
From Chronic Wasting Disease Alliance John R. La Montagne, age 61. Died: November 2, 2004. Died while in Mexico, no cause stated, later disclosed as pulmonary embolism. PhD, Head of US Infectious Diseases unit under Tommie Thompson. Was NIAID Deputy Director. Expert in AIDS Program work and Microbiology and Infectious Diseases. #67: Matthew Allison, age 32. Died: October 13, 2004. Fatal explosion of a car parked at an Osceola County, Fla., Wal-Mart store. It was no accident, Local 6 News has learned. Found inside a burned car. Witnesses said the man left the store at about 11 p.m. and entered his Ford Taurus car when it exploded. Investigators said they found a Duraflame log and propane canisters on the front passenger's seat. Allison had a college degree in molecular biology and biotechnology.
Keep it comin' please, I'm saving all this, but my brain is overflowin', it's 2 am up in here. ;^)
Their spirit lives on!
Dr. Michael Patrick Kiley, age 62. Died: January 24, 2004. Died of massive heart attack. Ebola, Mad Cow Expert, top of the line world class. It is interesting to note, he had a good heart, but it "gave out". Dr. Shope and Dr. Kiley were working on the lab upgrade to BSL 4 at the UTMB Galvaston lab for Homeland Security. The lab would have to be secure to house some of the deadliest pathogens of tropical and emerging infectious disease as well as bioweaponized ones.
Cool, you seem to be catching on..
Dr. Douglas James Passaro, age 43. Died April 18, 2005 from unknown cause in Oak Park, Illinois. Dr. Passaro was a brilliant epidemiologist who wanted to unlock the secrets of a spiral-shaped bacteria that causes stomach disease. He was a professor who challenged his students with real-life exercises in bioterrorism. He was married to Dr. Sherry Nordstrom..
ahem..,
I just remembered what I had read as I looked up a bit of info, and the Wikipedia info steered me towards what I found. Interesting that they haven't looked into this particular organism as the cause, where there is info that it caused a huge loss of bees in France back in 1984. And it is VERY disturbing that strains of this same bacteria are apparently the cause of mad cow and other wasting diseases, including the human form. And is is REALLY interesting that those scientists who would be THE experts on this have been murdered, or died very suspicious deaths.
Hey, you know I was kidding right? (Take a look at this nonsense from our band of merry stooges)
And it is VERY disturbing that strains of this same bacteria are apparently the cause of mad cow and other wasting diseases, including the human form. And is is REALLY interesting that those scientists who would be THE experts on this have been murdered, or died very suspicious deaths. Right freakin' scary is what it is! I am trying, of course, to work towards possible preventions and/or solutions. Ya know, to like survive this crap 'n' stuff?
Yes I know that, it's just that I'm fairly certain I just pieced it all together. The cause of Colony Collapse Disorder, the CHEMTRAIL connection, along with some VERY disturbing info concerning Transmissible Spongiform Encephalopathies.
I am trying, of course, to work towards possible preventions and/or solutions. Ya know, to like survive this crap 'n' stuff? The only way to stop it is to identify those that are infecting us with it, and bring them to justice, shutting down whatever program it is that is doing this.
Saw on Discovery Channel that there is a parasite...a monster...that resides now in most humans. Once thought harmless, experiments show it causes deteriorating responses and alzheimers type symptoms. It lodges itself in the brain. I forgot what it's called. Any ideas?
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition Spiroplasma.
The bastards have ALLOWED us to be infected with mad cow by refusing to allow extensive testing even by private owners. They are murdering future generations and they know it.
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition Spiroplasma & Transmissible Spongiform Encephalopathies
I sometimes wonder if those behind this are even human, and I mean that in the literal sense. If they ARE human, then they have to be vaccinated against this microbe. If there is no vaccine, and I doubt they'd like to catch the bug themselves, then what are they?
Let's hope that he can do something about it. I'm calling it a night. Goodnight wud, goodnight all..
Goodnight, FL, thanks for the GOOD work.
What can we do about it? I'm serious.
Find out the exact biological make-up of the agent being used, magnify the compounds 100,000,000 times and spray D.C., Jew York and Synagogues/Banks throughout Amerika. Ban CIPRO use or gas masks by politicians, CEOs and Bankers. Then get on your knees and pray it works ! If it works and there is any surplus begin spraying the Mexican border and as far south as the supply lasts !
RON PAUL or REVOLUTION [we don't report-you don't decide]
My dear mother told me there were purple scorpions in their basement before I was born in Norfolk VA! Have you ever heard of such a thing? Just as Dover Air Force Base occasionally has to capture and/or kill a brown tree snake who hitches a ride on a C5 Galaxy from Guam (because we certainly don't want that nasty critter to get loose in Delaware) I suspect that Norfolk, the largest military installation in the world with a lot of service people in transit is the explanation for those scorpions. EDIT: After a little searching I've discovered that there is an indigenous critter called vaejovis carolinianus or the Carolina scorpion in the area. I've never seen one so, Im guessing that Norfolk has been too toxic (or hectic) for the poor critters since I was born.
Hey, I just learned how to do HTML, I don't know if I'd be qualified to do all that. I'd certainly be happy to do some prayin' though. ;^)
Bees are cool and actually pretty sane for an insect. They'd have to be, since they die if they sting you. When the stinger's in it pulls the guts out of the bees and they die. Hornets, wasps, yellow jackets, etc. are a different story. They can sting you mulitiple times and don't die. They're all insane, and I'm glad they're not the size of birds, or else we'd all have to carry shotguns and be in a lot of trouble.
Freeper motto: I read, but do not understand, I write, but make no sense, I think, but nothing happens.
Hornets, wasps, yellow jackets, etc. are a different story. They can sting you mulitiple times and don't die. They're all insane, and I'm glad they're not the size of birds, or else we'd all have to carry shotguns and be in a lot of trouble. Very good. Honeybees are industrious little critters, and when one lands on me I sit still until he leaves, because it's just not his nature to sting if unmolested. Wasps and yellowjackets are a different story. I only wish that feral bees were in abundance like when I was a kid. It's been 12 years or so since I learned of the plight of the honeybee, and it's only now coming to the attention of the masses. Not a good sign.
So, you believe that chicks dig the truth? Okay, try this one. "Honey, does this dress make my butt look fat?" "No, the pecan pie is what makes your butt look fat!"
lol I tried "No it's your fat butt that makes you look fat." That didn't work.
I tried "I think you look beautiful." That worked.
That worked. You have wisdom far beyond your tender years.....
Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us. Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. For thine is the kingdom, the power and the glory. For ever and ever. Amen
The important thing is never to stop questioning. ~ Albert Einstein
Thank you. I think. ;^)
The important thing is never to stop questioning. ~ Albert Einstein
"How do I look?" "You look just fine." Don' EVER say "just fine." The female brain perceive it as "fat and ugly."
Freeper motto: I read, but do not understand, I write, but make no sense, I think, but nothing happens.
"How do I look?" "You look just fine." Don' EVER say "just fine." The female brain perceive it as "fat and ugly." lol!
It was BrerRabbit that came up with it. He is a molecular biologist; I figure he knows a thing or two.
LOL!
That should have raised red flags with everyone. Private testing should have been the first choice. Get private testing, certification by a third party and carry insurance. This should be the method used in all types of agriculture AND in environmental programs! The people could log their own land, mine etc. After all the Nature Conservancy does it, why can't you!
LOL!
We carry a hormone filter that changes the sounds of male speech. I got a good joke for you guys. I'll just give you a link rather than post the whole thing. You'll enjoy it. Surprisingly, he didn't know about the case in France back in 1984 and how it was due to spiroplasma. Or at least he didn't say he knew about it.
The testing is sort of difficult to do, as it involves using an electron microscope I believe, and the researcher REALLY needs to know what he's doing. Not the sort of test a small lab could do.
No one has shown any information to indicate an exogenously, versus by endogenous parasite, suppression of the immune system. One study collected dead bees at the hive entrance and reported on myriad parasites and pathogens....exactly what you would expect from aged dead bees. Another study noted the "forgetfulness" syndrome and the attempt to form wild hives which , naturally, succumbed to infestations because they were not under the care of beekeepers and management practices to defeat mites etc. The best study so far is one in which multiple hives were sterilized with radiation or not sterilized and then placed in the same environment. The colonies in the sterilized hives did much better than the "identical" colonies in the non-sterilized hives. This study indicates a pathogen rather than a chemical. The alternate oremise is neo-nicotinoids which have spikes in usage by ChemLawn, the agribusiness etc in just the last three years. The neo-nicotinoids have definitively been shown in the past to produce " Alzheimers like forgetting behavior" similar or the same as witnessed in Colony Collapse Disorder. The sterilization of hives study lends new impetus to a pathogen. Neo-nicotinoids are also still on the table. Normal die-offs and the usual pests are not except as opportunists allowed dominance by an added pathogen or neo-nicotinoids. Time will tell.
Mycoplasma is too ubiquitous to need weaponization. Just open a flask of RPMI outside a sterile hood and see.
This is a distinct possibility.
Not sure what is going on with the bees, but they are spraying over East Tennessee right now...the usual criss-cross pattern...I saw the jet that was leaving the trail, but it was way too high to identify. I used to think this was BS, but I have pointed out the difference between a contrail and a chemtrail to friends who are pilot, and they both agree that something weird is going on.
Precisely. I wonder why there isn't any mention of tests related to spiroplasma considering France experienced a problem with that very thing regarding bees in 1984.
If you could find out if there are cases of Colony Collaspse Disorder in your area, it would be interesting to know. I myself think there is a correlation.
Someone made a comment on the internet yesterday stating that honeybees were making a comeback in this area...can't have that, I guess. :-(
The state beekeepers associations are the ones doing all this right now. There was recently a large meeting in Charlotte NC of just the scientists, those with documented observations, research committees and people like Wyatt Mangum, a mathematics professor, et al. who carry the water for everybody at no compensation. There is little federal funding beyond the same shills 'churning ' for the past decade the same old crap over and over for grants as cronies of those who dole out the funds. Beekeepers are traditionally not liked by the NeoCons and Federal government liberals. They are far too independent and that trait was destined to be attacked twenty or more years ago. All efforts are being expended and there are some very savvy beekeeping scientists...outside the Shilldom of the NeoCon Crony Federal Juggernaut.
Western North Carolina and East Tennessee are heavy agricultural areas...if aerial spraying is going on to affect the bee population; what is happening to the vegetables all of this stuff is settling upon?
There is little if any aerial "spraying" that I know of anymore. The practice is diminishing rapidly as herbicides like roundup ( glyphosate) are applied from tractors. I have never heard of neo-nicotinoids being applied by aerial spray although it is not impossible. I believe BT ( Bacillus thuriengensis) may be applied by aerial spray for things like gypsy moth. Increasingly the spray is not needed because the BT toxin is in the corn itself.
I was referring to the high altitude 'spraying' that many call 'chemtrails'. There were jets laying down criss-cross patterns all over WNC and East Tennessee around noon. Some believe this may affecting the bees, and who knows what else? Whatever it is...it's just hanging in the sky, lowering and spreading by the hour. I'll be staying inside today. :-)
IMO an urban legend... contrails, their width, appearance, longevity etc depend on the atmospheric conditions most closely related to relative humidity in the upper regions . Want to know if it is going to rain? Look for the contrails to last and last and last ....thus stretch across the sky. No contrails means it is not going to rain. Connect the dots and count the X's http://www.usairways.com/awa/content/routemap.aspx http://www.continental.com/web/en-us/content/travel/routes/co-us_200706.pdf
an urban legend... I'm old enough to remember when vapor trails from planes dissipated before the plane was halfway across the horizon. The never hung there the way they do now. If you refuse to see that something is amiss, then you may have your head jammed in your ass.
The never hung there the way they do now. If you refuse to see that something is amiss, then you may have your head jammed in your ass. HOUNDDAWG 1. Many many more airlines today; not as many then (and no jets to speak of when you were young) 2. No preconditioned notion for the urban legend "chemtrails from spraying" 3. you just did not pay attention to the atmospheric conditions Pay closer attention now and record the short disappearing contrail and record next to it the rainfall/cloud cover from the record every day for three days. Do the very same thing for the "across the sky and wide " contrails. Then ping me please. (-:
Well, it's true that Wilbur and Orville didn't use jets, but they didn't leave vapor trails either. The Boeing 707 was invented in the 1950's and "dominated passenger air transport in the 1960's". Just how old do you think I am?
2. The Boeing 707 was invented in the 1950's and "dominated passenger air transport in the 1960's". 3. Just how old do you think I am? 1. LOL...just not high enough? (-: 2. Count the numbers not the invention date...I think the 737 was the workhorse commuter NY-Charlotte-Atlanta-Miami 3. 65-70 ??? (-: you asked the question (-:
No rain in this area until AT LEAST Thursday...it has been dry as a bone; this area is running 11 inches below normal rainfall. I used to think chemtrails were BS, but that is no longer the case. We'll just have to 'agree to disagree' on this one.
We just saw a CONTRAIL yesterday...evaporated within a few seconds. These things today? I saw the jets flying a criss-cross pattern...the trail just sat there...spread out, descending in altitude. Weather the SAME as yesterday, although I can't speak for 'higher altitudes'.
Pay closer attention now and record the short disappearing contrail and record next to it the rainfall/cloud cover from the record every day for three days. Do the very same thing for the "across the sky and wide " contrails. Then ping me please. (-: Ever been outside on foot for a month or longer with no amenities? You would learn to read the cirrus clouds...which is essentially what the contrails are. 72 hour predictors.
an urban legend... contrails, their width, appearance, longevity etc depend on the atmospheric conditions most closely related to relative humidity in the upper regions . I think any halfway intelligent person beyond 1st grade knows what a contrail is. Many of us have been around for more than a few decades, and know what contrails look like, and what we've seen in the sky AT TIMES from 1996 onwards are NOT regular contrails. For lack of a better term, people call them CHEMTRAILS, as it is apparent that something is being sprayed. The hot exhaust from a jet engine when hitting moist cold air causes water vapor to appear, but water vapor dissipates rather rapidly, and does not leave greenish purpleish highlights in the sky, nor does it expand into clouds. People that deny this phenonemon exists must think that everybody that's seen it is either stupid, or simply making it up. Perhaps I'll post more info on it later today, for now I have to run.
Do the very same thing for the "across the sky and wide " contrails. Then ping me please. I've personally seen high altitude jets coming from over the horizon leave CONTRAILS, then at a certain point leave CHEMTRAILS, turn off whatever it is that causes CHEMTRAILS, make a 180 turn, and begin leaving CHEMTRAILS again. I've seen up to four jets in the sky at a time doing this. This isn't just ordinary airline traffic, nor is it normal for military aircraft to fly such patterns. I've read that people have checked with the FAA and discovered that there were no commericial OR military aircraft in the area at the time of these sightings.
depends on atmospheric conditions.... it is a solubility issue of ice sublimation
My pleasure...there is a jet right at this moment flying across the western sky...contrail behind it evaporating within a few seconds. One degree warmer than it was at noon; otherwise, all surface conditions the same. Sky was blue earlier; now hazy from 'whatever' was being spread by activity at noon. I would prefer your explanation be the right one, but I am very suspicious that something else is going on here...
Ever been outside on foot for a month or longer with no amenities? Yes...on the AT. You would learn to read the cirrus clouds...which is essentially what the contrails are. 72 hour predictors. I am familiar with them...I have 'dabbled' in meteorology for decades.
There is little federal funding beyond the same shills 'churning ' for the past decade the same old crap over and over for grants as cronies of those who dole out the funds. Beekeepers are traditionally not liked by the NeoCons and Federal government liberals. They are far too independent and that trait was destined to be attacked twenty or more years ago. All efforts are being expended and there are some very savvy beekeeping scientists...outside the Shilldom of the NeoCon Crony Federal Juggernaut. Seems this needs to be put into the category of major importance as if the bees all go we are pretty much screwed.. well thats not exactly a scientific term now is it? :P An observation.. I've not see a honey bee in my area for at least two summers..
about as scientific as one can get... no dissembling there !
Zipporah USDA ( and Sesame Street...you know the little Doo Bee...and all the MSM ) has been in denial for some years now. For all practical purposes, the honeybee, Apis mellifera, is extinct in the wild. There was not a peep from Natl Geo et al. The bees doing the heavy lifting are the ones receiving TLC from a beekeeper, the majority of whom are independent and hobby or semi-hobby.
The bees doing the heavy lifting are the ones receiving TLC from a beekeeper, the majority of whom are independent and hobby or semi-hobby. I considered buying a hive.. but my life kinda went upside down so I wasnt able to.. I wonder why there hasnt been more news about this.. ?
Chemtrails" are mentioned in House Bill HR 2977, the Space Preservation Act of 2001, introduced by Congressman Dennis Kucinich, where it appears as one of a list of "exotic weapons system[s]" to be banned under the bill. Proponents of the reality of chemtrails point to this as official acknowledgment of the possibility, at least, of such weapons systems. The reference to Chemtrails was omitted from the version of the bill re-introduced by Kucinich in 2002 as HR 3616 or in 2003 as HR 3657 j.sulli Texas is 80's and windy. Lots of contrails over DFW VORTAC [as usual] all with different characteristics depending on the air's moisture content/altitude of airliners. Lots of crossing patterns, because the jets are all crossing the 8 VORTACs around the DFW area alone on different headings as they fly their IFR high-altitude jet routes, which make natural x and h patterns. These VORTACS are scattered all over the country relatively close together in both populated and remote areas. The number of contrail "patterns" possible is endless since aircraft may either be using the radio navigation aids, or cleared "direct" by passing the NAV stations and using GPS only. Aging contrails over the midwest in more humid air. I've seen this pattern nwith my own eyes and at first thought there is no explanation other than the pilot switching the "chemtrail" on and off. Contrails don't do this! [Oh yeah?] So are there chemtrails? The military has been experimenting for years with substances to modify weather and to inhibit contrail formation for its stealth aircraft. There is no doubt they exist. However, every photo i have seen on any website which purports a "chemtrail" is actually a contrail behaving normally and I can prove it with science. The question you should ask is why are the hucksters so obviously shooting themselves in the foot and discrediting the theorists in the meantime?
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition The largest plummet happened under Clinton when he allowed the Chinese to send in thousands of tons of uninspected, toxin-laden and mite infested honey. Clinton did not like beekeepers because they are by and large a very saucy independent and smart lot. That did not sit well with the DC establishment and Clinton was certainly the epitome of that too. There was a virtual blackout on all media by our always present friends who like to censor in order to destroy. Not a sound was heard for a decade...no , more than a decade now.
In case no one's mentioned it on this thread, there's a claim here that organic hives are not having any die off/CCD problems: http://freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=52187 I'd like to see some confirmation of this story though.
First Ive known of this..
Safety lapses poison Chinese food reputation By Antoaneta Bezlova BEIJING - China's self-esteem as a country of great culinary traditions is being poisoned by a spate of food-safety scares, which have brought down hundreds of students and workers across the country with sometimes deadly illnesses over the past year. Dining and wining at sumptuous feasts these days, Chinese people often congratulate themselves for the abundance of food that a growing economy has put on their tables. However, a shocking array of food-related hazards are alerting diners to the fact that not all is well with China's booming food industry. Honey contaminated with the banned antibiotic chloramphenicol, widely used in China to treat infections and promote rapid growth, is being exported abroad. Moldy rice, bleached and polished to look normal by adding mineral oil, is sold in many of the country's markets. Cheaper industrial salt is commonly used for cooking in restaurants instead of the processed salt available in supermarkets. "Have you eaten?" is the Chinese people's traditional way of greeting friends and neighbors throughout the day, highlighting the importance of food in a country long plagued by food scarcity. But soon, as Beijing cook Lang Haohe jokes, Chinese people may well start greeting each other with the anxious: "How is your stomach?" Last year, food poisoning killed 146 people and affected more than 15,000 others in China, the state media reported. Alarmed by concerns over food safety, the government launched a nationwide crackdown on fake and inferior foods. But worse was still to come. On September 14, more than 400 people, many of them students and construction workers, were rushed to the hospital in Tangshan, near the central city of Nanjing, after they ate breakfast supplied by a breakfast shop that had been tainted with rat poison. The government later said 38 people died, but local residents claimed that the toll was much higher. The food-poisoning case appeared to be the biggest in recent memory in China, but was also the second major food scandal to hit Nanjing in as many years. Last autumn, state television broadcaster CCTV accused a well-known Nanjing bakery of recycling old moon-cake fillings and wrapping them in fresh crusts. The traditional sweet delicacy is associated with celebrating the full-moon harvest during China's mid-autumn festival. Public fears over food safety were hardly calmed with the disclosure that the Nanjing food-poisoning case was a deliberate one, caused by a business rivalry. A week later, another food-poisoning outbreak hit an elementary school in Hebei province, in China's north. Some 110 students were admitted to hospitals for stomach pain and headaches after they ate fried chicken, bean strips and bread from a snack vendor outside the school. As a developing country with a population of about 1.3 billion, China's food problems are most often caused by polluted soil and water. Meanwhile, weak government supervision of food production and storage and an underdeveloped public health system only serve to aggravate the food-safety situation. Much of the contamination of China's soil and water took place during the early decades of communist rule, when China's leaders strove to sustain rapid agricultural growth with excessive use of toxic pesticides. However, some of the more recent contamination scares have been deliberate. Local food producers often sell food beyond its expiry date to minimize losses and resort to mixing food with additives to increase its weight. "Greed for exorbitant prices has driven some immoral and lawless people to ignore laws and adulterate or even use toxic and harmful materials in food making," state media quoted Peng Peiyun, vice chairman of the standing committee of the National People's Congress or parliament, as saying this year. Peng was assigned to lead a government inquiry into the implementation of a national law on food hygiene, which became effective in 1995. With some 5 million companies operating throughout China, the food industry became the leading sector in terms of annual output value five years ago. Food accounts for about 40 percent of the total consumer purchases in China, according to the Chinese Association of Consumers, a national watchdog on consumer rights. But problems with food only accounted for 20 percent of the total complaints received during the 1998-2000 period. Already, China's food-processing practices are causing concern beyond its borders. As a large agricultural producer, China exports vegetable, meat and aquatic products to more than 40 countries. In August, the US Customs Service seized bulk imports of Chinese honey that were contaminated with low levels of chloramphenicol, a potentially harmful antibiotic and banned food additive. The European Union continues to ban Chinese poultry, shrimp, prawns and other food products because of suspicions that they are contaminated with the same antibiotic. Similarly, tensions over Chinese agricultural produce banned by Japan, because of serious pesticide-residue problems, continue between Beijing and Tokyo. Now that China has become a member of the World Trade Organization, its food exports are expected not only to increase rapidly. China is also empowered to use WTO mechanisms to fight non-tariff barriers to trade, such as safety standard requirements for food products. (Inter Press Service) Sep 26, 2002 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- And the traitors are still allowing imports from China? String 'em up! http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/DI26Ad01.html
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition Organic bees not affected according to some
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition First define an "organic hive".
I and others posted it all the time on FR way back when I first became acquainted with a certain shotgun-toting person !! (-:
I will not touch honey from China with a 10 foot pole. It is ersatz and no way to know what has been added or what has contaminated it. Lucky I still have a local source here until I can get a couple hives going next year.
"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke
According to the main article, however, the bees did not have an unusual number of mites. Their intestines were scarred, and they showed signs of infection. The experiments with the hives demonstrate that the cause is biological, not chemical related. Also, scientific literature reports that bees infected with the spiroplama bacteria exhibit the exact symptoms that the bees are currently experiencing, including death. This same thing happened in France in 1984, where spiroplama strains were responsible. From Pathogenicity of Spiroplasma apis and other spiroplasmas for honey-bees in southwestern France And from Some biological features of Mollicutes [PDF] Additionally, spiroplasmas appear to be the causitive agent in regards to Transmissible Spongiform Encephalopathies, which includes mad cow disease, scrapies, chronic wasting disease, and the human variant, Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (CJD). I've still not been able to confirm this. But, it seems that the rise in cell phone and other communications may have someting to do with it. Electromagnetic radiation has always had a bad effect on bees and it causes them to lose their navigation abilities. There's very few places now without cell towers and microwave transmission with the government plan to track everything with RFID chips coming closer.
"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke
From the main article... One of the unusual features of the disorder is that the predators of abandoned beehives, such as hive beetles and wax moths, refuse to venture into infected hives for weeks or longer. "It's as if there is something repellent or toxic about the colony," said Hayes, the Florida inspector. To test this idea, VanEngelsdorp and Pettis set up 200 beehive boxes with new, healthy bees from Australia and placed them in the care of Hackenberg. Fifty of the hives were irradiated to kill potential pathogens. Fifty were fumigated with concentrated acetic acid, a hive cleanser commonly used in Canada. Fifty were filled with honey frames that had been taken from Hackenberg's colonies before the collapse, and the last 50 were hives that had been abandoned that winter. When VanEngelsdorp visited the colonies at the beginning of May, bees in the untouched hive were clearly struggling, filling only about a quarter of a frame. Bees living on the reused honeycomb were alive but not thriving. A hive that had been fumigated with acetic acid was better. When he popped open an irradiated hive, bees were crawling everywhere. "This does imply there is something biological," he said.
That really tells me little. I had a few hives way back in the 80s before the mite infestation got bad. Had to give them up because of back injuries. One thing I never used on them was drugs or other substances. You could say I was running a natural product and it sure was good stuff. Yum! There are going to be several factors which come into play with this CCD epidemic. To think it may be something inocuous or innocent would not be my first choice considering the globalists plan to depopulate the world by half.
"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke
For one thing, according to the linked article, industrial practice has been to create larger cells in which the queen lays eggs and in which bees grow. These slightly larger cells can create bees that are as much as 50% bigger than natural bees. I understand standard practice is to use chemicals and such on the hives to kill pathogens. Certainly an organic beekeeper would decline to do such a thing, at least with lab produced chemicals and antibiotics.
I tend to doubt it since this CCD has started rather suddenly and cell towers have been going up steadily for some time.
I heard the same thing at a cookout discussion last weekend. I can't confirm if it's true though.
I know of no such "study" and I just got back from a beekeepers science review and research session in Charlotte...
No. We discussed it then.
They've been going up steadily for over 10 years all over the country at a very rapid pace. The studies I am talking about are not new with power line EMF affecting bees. I was just reading in June, 2007 AcresUSA (Page 8) about this. There are new studies. "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke
I have seen contrails that start and stop like what's pictured, but I have always been doubtful that they have been intentional. Just because patch of sky is clear does not mean that the conditions are uniform throughout that area. All it means is that none of the one or more conditions present are compatible for cloud formation. Humidity, wind speed and direction can all vary. Typically, weather reports to pilots include wind speed and direction at various altitudes since they don't all move the same. And the picture even shows other clouds in the area. One logic question: If clouds can start and stop in an otherwise blue patch of sky, why couldn't a contrail? I would not rule out modern jet engines being more prone to contrails than those of the 60's and 70's, or differing fuel compositions that could play a role, and I would certainly find it easy to believe that the airline industry would be willing to sacrifice our environment to better their profits, but I still doubt that pilots of commercial aircraft are dumping chemicals that are not "normal" exhaust via an on/off switch. Carrying such stuff to 30,000 feet would be an extra load on the plane and would burn more fuel, which translates to lost revenue for the airline carrier. Then there's the question of what there is to gain from such chemical dumping. Winds at altitude are usually 40 MPH or thereabouts and any chemicals dumped would be hard to steer as it fell to the ground.
If your referring to the claim of organic hives not losing bees as a "study", it's not. It's just a claim/report at this point. No study is needed to substantiate whether it's true or not. It's just a question of fact (or not).
Not so sure. But yesterday, the day after a rain, the sky here was clear blue for the first time in weeks. Today it was a criss cross of trails and we got the usual rain that that seems to follow this pattern of chemtrails at about 5 or 6 this afternoon. FYI, Col. Donn de Grand Pre told me once that not only HAARP is responsible for weather modification. But that there is a certain amount of spraying going on that affects weather also. He also said that the bio-chem warfare has been developing ever since the end of WWII, and that high altitude systems for spraying were being developed. I could double check with him on this, since I have not spoken with him in some time. Donn was a Pentagon insider in weapons systems sales and R&D and was privy to many to secret operations.
"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke
I have heard nothing more than cocktail rumors to that effect from non-beekeepers. "My brother met a guy today who said he knew a fellow whose wife said her hairdresser heard a customer's husband thought he read someplace..." It is near impossible to segregate or isolate bees from hazards such as the Asian tracheal mite... we tried it by moving three hives to a far county in the mountains and lost three hives to Asian tracheal mites.
who's that girl? ;)
Being a mainstream forum owner you would never believe it. She was the sweetest, smartest most trustworthy girl I have ever met. I should have suffered RimJob, Dane and howlin and stayed on FR just for her (-;
IMO this is just self hype. Beekeepers who do none of this "non-organic" lost as many hives as anyone else according to the Charlotte meetings and canvass of NC, SC, Ga, VA and Tenn beekeepers assns.
http://www.lightwatcher.com/chemtrails/hos.html http://www.lightwatcher.com/chemtrails/chemtrail_illuminati.html http://www.lightwatcher.com/chemtrails/smoking_gun.html http://www.epa.gov/safewater/contaminants/dw_contamfs/barium.html The important thing is never to stop questioning. ~ Albert Einstein
Hey, trouble-maker:
The important thing is never to stop questioning. ~ Albert Einstein
Hey wud, thanks for the links.
http://www.lightwatcher.com/chemtrails/US_Chemtrail_code.html
The important thing is never to stop questioning. ~ Albert Einstein
You guys ever see anything like this when you were kids? http://www.holmestead.ca/chemtrails/r+z.html
The important thing is never to stop questioning. ~ Albert Einstein
My Dad was a fighter pilot and then an airline pilot. I know what the difference between a chemtrail and a contrail is. Chemtrails are aerosol spraying, contrails are exhaust. I'm looking now for the documented contracts the US military has with ALL the airlines. "They" are planning to wipe out 50 - 80% of the earth's population. That's why I'm not out enjoying the "sunshine"!!!!!!!!!!
The important thing is never to stop questioning. ~ Albert Einstein
I have seen that...or similar or even more complex.
I know what the difference between a chemtrail and a contrail is. Chemtrails are aerosol spraying, contrails are exhaust. I'm looking now for the documented contracts the US military has with ALL the airlines. "They" are planning to wipe out 50 - 80% of the earth's population. That's why I'm not out enjoying the "sunshine"!!!!!!!!!! LOL Each non sequitur was very good ! Congrats ! Cheers. JC Harris
Sorry, what's a non sequitur?
The important thing is never to stop questioning. ~ Albert Einstein
Ron Paul voted AGAINST chemtrails.
The important thing is never to stop questioning. ~ Albert Einstein
Thoughts that are not exactly connected with the preceeding thoughts.
Swimming around in my bourbon highball..... Just a follow up. Cheers.
Now PD !! That was controlling !! No more seegars until you have changed your jacket !!
Hey, it's all good, brother!!;-) I speak in non-sequitur quite often. It's a good thing, as Martha says!!
Swimming around in my bourbon highball..... I remember seeing contrails as a kid (early 70's), and I don't think they had the longevity then as I've seen as an adult. But assuming my memory is correct and that it had nothing to do with the local weather where I lived as a kid, that's still possibly explained with engine advances which there have certainly been. B-17s left contrails during WWII so contrails themselves are nothing new.
Interesting, how that term can either mean fallacy, or in a foolish way, or just simply separate.
Swimming around in my bourbon highball..... hahahaha..that made me laugh.
hahahahaha..that too. :P
Uh...what?
The important thing is never to stop questioning. ~ Albert Einstein
I knew something was funny. ;^) He did vote against them, though.
The important thing is never to stop questioning. ~ Albert Einstein
Chemtrails are REAL. They are in the sky. They are TOXIC. The people responsible for putting them up there are planning to exterminate 50 - 80% of US. Um...now I lost my train of thought.
The important thing is never to stop questioning. ~ Albert Einstein
I like peanut butter. If you stir the batter too much, it won't rise. Hey, get out of the pool!!!
Swimming around in my bourbon highball..... B-17s left contrails during WWII so contrails themselves are nothing new. When you watched planes leave contrails as a kid, did those planes turn off their contrails, turn around 180 degrees, turn the contrails on, turn them off, then turn around 180 degrees again, turning them back on? Did you see two or more planes doing the same thing at once?
goin' out for some 'fresh' air.
The important thing is never to stop questioning. ~ Albert Einstein
Did the contrails you saw as a kid turn into clouds, leaving the sky a hazy grey color where the sky had once been bright blue?
You're gonna get us kicked outa here.
The important thing is never to stop questioning. ~ Albert Einstein
Nah, Neil is cool, and so is christine and Zipporah. It's just good discussion.
I know what the difference between a chemtrail and a contrail is. I was stationed at a Marine Corps Air Station where we had F-4 Phantoms, A-4 Skyhawks, AV-8A Harriers, and many times would have visiting Air Force cargo planes and fighters. So I myself know the difference as well.
Harriers were one of my favorites. One of the planes he flew was the 'widow-maker'. He also flew a Mig-29.
The important thing is never to stop questioning. ~ Albert Einstein
Nah, Neil is cool, and so is christine and Zipporah. It's just good discussion. Yes, I was just trying to be funny.
The important thing is never to stop questioning. ~ Albert Einstein
My favorite is the Warthog.
Um...now I lost my train of thought. See, See, its working already.
Not too many US fly boys have done that. Any comments from him about the plane?
Easy to fly from what I've heard. They visit Colorado Springs on occasion from their base in (Yuma?) AZ and loiter around. Kinda scary.
Yes. But that was in '86 so I'm not so clear on the details, except he said it was a good plane, but not as good as the F-18. If I remember right, he said it had good power , he was exhibiting it for the Soviets, as they were wanting to market it to the west.
The important thing is never to stop questioning. ~ Albert Einstein
I have frequently flown between 36000 and 42000 feet and on several occasions higher. I have also flown commercially at 25000 feet to 30,000 feet. Given a defined upper atmosphere wind speed, and saturation with water vapor, I wonder if the altitude itself makes a big difference? I would imagine it does simply from the principle of saturation with water vapor and resultant ice crystals. Higher altitudes would support less water vapor and lead to precipitation of ice crystals more readily than a more condensed air solvent.
No and no. But I've not seen that as an adult either.
I don't recall seeing that as a kid, but certainly I have seen that as an adult.
Except their main purpose is to shoot DU.
Don't know enough about the subject to rattle off detailed math, but the link earlier in this thread to a contrail java demo lets you set temperature and relative humidity and then graphically demonstrates the resulting contrail. Fiddling with it, it did seem that you could go from no contrail to a heavy persistent trail by just making a slight adjustment in temperature (moving the red ball slightly on the lower right hand corner of the screen.
Yes....just as in cloud formation. BTW I have never seen any color morphing as you guys describe. I have seen light shifts from changed angles of the sun or distant high cloud light scatter which I deemed an optical change rather than a massive spraying of earth. FWIW Occams Razor ?
chemtrails are aerosol spraying, contrails are engine exhaust. :^)
The important thing is never to stop questioning. ~ Albert Einstein
Saw it yesterday in East Tennessee...even my skeptic wife admitted that all those jets leaving trails that "wouldn't evaporate" was something unusual.
Oh, it's nothing to be concerned about the pilots are just playing tic tac toe ... RON PAUL or REVOLUTION [we don't report and you certainly don't decide]
I watched a pilot at an airshow take off on a short runway (without bombs and loaded light of course) and go straight up for a mile or so in a Warthog. The really fascinating thing about the plane is, it's built around a 30mm cannon that runs nearly the entire length of the airframe, and when firing the recoil is so powerful that sustained fire would actually stall the aircraft in flight! AND, those 30mm rounds will penetrate any rolling stock on earth. There is simply no tank or armor it cannot penetrate. If the enemy (and, sadly, occasionally friendlies) see a Warthog closing in it's time for a quick Hail Mary.....
That's absolutely true. I am glad you recognize that very simple fact. You probably looked at an air route map and realized airplanes fly North-South but also East-West and thus their paths intersect. Your deduction is a good use of the Occam's Razor delivered into your care.
" wouldn'y evaporate depends on the amount of the GAS H2O in the upper atmosphere ! Pure and simple. And just to correct a technicality, what you see is not water, it is ice crystals and they must SUBLIMATE from solid to a gas....and if the thin atmosphere is SATURATED already with all that gas it can hold, the contrail ice crystalk do not sublimate.... just like hanging out your wet shirt on a cold muggy day does not DRY it either!
Can't you blow away a huge amount of the aircraft and it will still stay in the air? Just incredible machines. Everyone seems to like the pretty and fast ones but that one will always be my favorite.
Especially for local residents who will have to deal with the depleted uranium scattered on their land. The DU rounds should be considered nuclear WMD's and banned.
Yup, they are designed with redundant, low tech, systems through and through so they are difficult to shoot down. Of course a pilot would recognize that such a design means that he's likely to be a popular target.
Yeah well you don't shoot tanks at 15,000 feet either.
That's right. They're slow by fighter jet standards, but when one considers the missions for which they were designed they are the closest thing to the Angel Of Death (albeit unholy in service to BushCo) we'll likely ever see. Imagine joining the Hammurabi Division of Saddam's elite tank corps, walking proudly among the lessers with a snappy uniform but knowing all the while that the rolling pillbox has yet to be devised that can protect them from the mighty A-10 Thunderbolt II!
The DU rounds should be considered nuclear WMD's and banned. I believe that the cradle of civilization is doomed.
I went to the Farmer's Market the other day. Lot's of Bee keepers peddling honey. So, I bought something from each of them, and had a discussion about their bees. Some Beekeepers are losing their bees, some are thriving. Minnesota Beekeepers who aren't commercial seem to be doing just fine. Minnesota Commercial Keepers are losing their bees. Wisconsin Beekeepers on the whole seem to be doing much better than their Minnesota counterparts, but one keeper who is 100 percent organic is splitting hives, and raising queens like nobody's business. Two co-relations came up in every discussion. 1. Nicotene based pesticides and 2. Chinese made Bee Food, used mostly by Commercial Bee Keepers. I talked to a dozen beekeepers, and their take is this. It's something their eating. It isn't cell phones, it's not pollution, it's deliberate poisoning, because Bees have been around for millions of years, and it is only recently that they've suffered such a devastation on their numbers. So, you have Monsanto, and... the same pricks who gave us the petfood recall.
Dying for old bastards, and their old money, isn't my idea of freedom.
We keep hearing this, so the mystery must be half solved.
"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." ~George Washington
Morons of your caliber should adapt Occam's Razor to useful purposes and slit your throat and wrists.
RON PAUL or REVOLUTION [ALL MEDIA: We don't report and you certainly don't decide]
Oh, it's nothing to be concerned about the pilots are just playing tic tac toe ... That's absolutely true. I am glad you recognize that very simple fact. You probably looked at an air route map and realized airplanes fly North-South but also East-West and thus their paths intersect. Your deduction is a good use of the Occam's Razor delivered into your care. JCHarris Morons of your caliber should adapt Occam's Razor to useful purposes and slit your throat and wrists. -noone222 Have a nice cup of coffee and a couple of aspirin old sport....you'll feel better soon. Cheers !
We keep hearing this, so the mystery must be half solved. Don't hold your breath over internet cyber anecdote.
It's more than internet anecdote. There was an article posted here a month or so ago too. Here are other news links: 1. Organic Beekeepers Not Affected By Colony Collapse Disorder "Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." ~George Washington
I see nothing there that would stand any kind of close scrutiny. Which means it may be and it may not be. As a beekeeper, I doubt, from first-hand acquaintances and experimental attempts, the discourse from the "organic crowd". IMO it is in large part a movement, an "-ism", strangely instigated and backed by the very people you abhor as part of their total control grand scheme. I laud anyone doing whatever they want with their hives. I do NOT , never have and have never seen any beneficial, or even real effects of the so-called "organic bees" other than weakened colonies. Integrated management utilizing a set of skills, analyses and intervention has proven to be reproducible in maintaining robust and healthy bee colonies. IMO the "organic" bees crowd is blowing mutual admiration smoke without for the most part without knowing what they are doing , if, in fact they are even doing what they tout ; instead of the tout in most cases being the full substance.
Three sources, one of which is the above. I am referencing this comment: I see nothing there that would stand any kind of close scrutiny.
"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." ~George Washington
Three sources, one of which is the above. still provides nothing definitive in any form or substance
So far, they are stumped.
#2. To: WTF? (#1)
Maybe we could consult the ghosts of the mysteriously murdered and/or missing microbiologists.
#3. To: robin (#2)
#4. To: All (#3)
Why?
#5. To: robin (#2)
mysteriously murdered and/or missing microbiologists.
#6. To: WTF? (#4)
Paris Hilton?
#7. To: All (#3)
I'm guessing that it's something in the chemtrails that's killing the bees.
#8. To: robin (#6)
Paris Hilton?
#9. To: robin (#6)
(Edited)
#10. To: All (#9)
#11. To: WTF?, robin (#10)
Instead, he found internal organs swollen with debris and strangely blackened. The bees' intestinal tracts were scarred, and their rectums were abnormally full of what appeared to be partly digested pollen. Dark marks on the sting glands were telltale signs of infection.
#12. To: robin (#0)
#13. To: WTF? (#9)
#14. To: kiki, mike ferret (#12)
I don't really like bees, but this is kinda sad.
"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men" Plato
#15. To: WTF? (#1)
Why is there no mention of chemtrails?
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#16. To: FormerLurker, WTF? (#15)
#17. To: farmfriend (#16)
I just had bee people at my house. There was a swarm in the neighbors tree that over hangs my property. I called a bee keeper to come get them. They said they have about 3000 hives. Well now they have 3001.
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#18. To: kiki (#12)
#19. To: FormerLurker (#15)
#20. To: PercyDovetonsils (#13)
Holy shit, that is funny.....
#21. To: christine (#18)
#22. To: tom007 (#14)
How can you not like honey bees???................
#23. To: kiki (#22)
if you say honey bees are cute pets, I believe you
#24. To: christine (#18)
(Edited)
#25. To: IndieTX (#24)
horny toads
It's not Global Warming, it's Ice Age Abatement.
#26. To: farmfriend (#25)
#27. To: WTF? (#19)
http://www.stevequayle.com/dead_scientists/UpdatedDeadScientists.html
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#28. To: farmfriend (#16)
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#29. To: christine (#18)
eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek! i just had to kill a scorpion that got inside !!!!!
Libertarians want it to treat you like an adult. - Andre Marrou
#30. To: FormerLurker (#28)
You know what they are right?
It's not Global Warming, it's Ice Age Abatement.
#31. To: christine (#18)
eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek! i just had to kill a scorpion that got inside !!!!!
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#32. To: farmfriend (#30)
Yes I know what they are.
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#33. To: FormerLurker (#32)
So do you see chemtrails in your area or not?
It's not Global Warming, it's Ice Age Abatement.
#34. To: farmfriend, WTF? (#33)
No I don't see chemtrails.
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#35. To: FormerLurker (#34)
I think that's the connection, and the cause.
It's not Global Warming, it's Ice Age Abatement.
#36. To: FormerLurker (#34)
Now that's interesting. I've spoken with several people on LP concerning this topic, and those that experienced bees dying off in their areas ALSO witnessed heavy CHEMTRAIL activity.
#37. To: farmfriend, WTF?, JCHarris, Original_Intent, robin (#35)
I agree with BrerRabbits idea that it is systemic pesticides. He mentions ones that has been shown to damage bee memory. A bunch of bees will Alzheimer’s won't return to the hive.
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#38. To: christine (#11)
UC San Francisco researchers announced in April that they had found a single-celled protozoan called Nosema ceranae in bees from colonies with the collapse disorder.
#39. To: FormerLurker (#37)
there are immunosuppressive elements in the substances that form CHEMTRAILS.
#40. To: JCHarris (#38)
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#41. To: JCHarris (#38)
(Edited)
Spiroplasmas are motile and show helicoidal morphology, they are frequently isolated from intestine, salivary glands, homocele of insects and the surface of plants and flowers.46,13 Spiroplasma melliferum and Spiroplasma apis are pathogenic for bees, they cross the intestine barrier reaching hemolinfa where they reproduce and induce death of their host.4 Spiroplasma have also been reported in Aedes aegypti mosquito reducing the fertility of the insects, opening the possibility of their use as biological control of mosquito.
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#42. To: christine, WTF?, robin, All (#41)
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#43. To: FormerLurker (#41)
#44. To: wudidiz (#43)
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#45. To: farmfriend, wudidiz, JCHarris, Original_Intent, robin, christine, IndieTX, PercyDovetonsils, All (#41)
From Some biological features of Mollicutes [PDF] [Edited link - FL]
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#46. To: All (#45)
(Edited)
Nothing seemed to distroy the agent; not heat, cold, or any of the normal chemical disinfectants. Nor could they find a trace of its chemical or molecular identity. Furthermore, the virus didn't cause inflamation so antibodies failed to leave a calling card. Some completely new agent was essential.
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#47. To: FormerLurker (#46)
#48. To: All (#45)
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#49. To: IndieTX (#47)
My tin foil hat is vibrating which means I think this shows signs of being man- made...excuse me...I mean CorporoFascist-made. An attack by agents of the StateInc to boost prices of commodities for their buddies in the Stock Market. IOW, treason; false flag. They are trying to kill us!
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#50. To: farmfriend, JCHarris (#35)
A bunch of bees will Alzheimer’s won't return to the hive.
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#51. To: farmfriend, JCHarris (#35)
A bunch of bees will Alzheimer’s won't return to the hive.
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#52. To: FormerLurker (#51)
#53. To: wudidiz (#52)
(Edited)
Chemtrails have aluminum in them too.
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#54. To: FormerLurker (#53)
Did you read the link on that I had posted?
#55. To: WTF? (#19)
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#56. To: wudidiz (#54)
Aluminum causes short-term memory loss in humans as well as Alzheimers, it also causes other problems when mixed with Magnesium which is also in the chemtrails. I'm just trying to throw stuff in in case it MIGHT be of some help.
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#57. To: wudidiz (#54)
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#58. To: wudidiz (#54)
Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD) is a transmissible neurological disease of deer and elk that produces small lesions in brains of infected animals. It is characterized by loss of body condition, behavioral abnormalities and death. CWD is classified as a transmissible spongiform encephalopathy (TSE), and is similar to mad cow disease in cattle and scrapie in sheep.
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#59. To: All (#58)
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#60. To: FormerLurker (#56)
#61. To: FormerLurker (#59)
#62. To: All (#59)
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#63. To: wudidiz (#60)
I'm learning HTML 'n' stuff
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#64. To: FormerLurker (#63)
#65. To: wudidiz (#61)
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#66. To: FormerLurker (#65)
#67. To: wudidiz (#66)
You appear to be a MAJOR s**t disturber, my friend. LOL!!
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#68. To: FormerLurker (#66)
#69. To: FormerLurker (#67)
Interesting that they haven't looked into this particular organism as the cause, where there is info that it caused a huge loss of bees in France back in 1984.
#70. To: wudidiz (#68)
Hey, you know I was kidding right?
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#71. To: wudidiz (#69)
Right freakin' scary is what it is!
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#72. To: FormerLurker (#56)
Thing is, it ALSO eats the brain.
#73. To: IndieTX (#72)
Saw on Discovery Channel that there is a parasite...a monster...that resides now in most humans. Once thought harmless, experiments show it causes deteriorating responses and alzheimers type symptoms. It lodges itself in the brain. I forgot what it's called. Any ideas?
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#74. To: FormerLurker (#71)
The only way to stop it is to identify those that are infecting us with it,
#75. To: IndieTX (#74)
(Edited)
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#76. To: IndieTX (#74)
The bastards have ALLOWED us to be infected with mad cow by refusing to allow extensive testing even by private owners. They are murdering future generations and they know it.
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#77. To: FormerLurker (#71)
The only way to stop it is to identify those that are infecting us with it, and bring them to justice, shutting down whatever program it is that is doing this.
#78. To: wudidiz, All (#77)
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#79. To: FormerLurker (#78)
#80. To: IndieTX (#74)
They are murdering future generations and they know it.
#81. To: wudidiz (#80)
(Edited)
What can we do about it? I'm serious.
#82. To: christine (#18)
(Edited)
eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek! i just had to kill a scorpion that got inside !!!!!
#83. To: noone222 (#81)
Find out the exact biological make-up of the agent being used, magnify the compounds 100,000,000 times and spray D.C., Jew York and Synagogues/Banks throughout Amerika. Ban CIPRO use or gas masks by politicians, CEOs and Bankers. Then get on your knees and pray it works !
#84. To: tom007 (#14)
Yellow jackets are a different creature.
#85. To: YertleTurtle (#84)
Bees are cool and actually pretty sane for an insect. They'd have to be, since they die if they sting you. When the stinger's in it pulls the guts out of the bees and they die.
#86. To: wudidiz (#83)
#87. To: HOUNDDAWG (#86)
#88. To: HOUNDDAWG (#87)
#89. To: wudidiz (#88)
I tried "I think you look beautiful."
#90. To: HOUNDDAWG (#89)
#91. To: HOUNDDAWG (#89)
You have wisdom far beyond your tender years.....
#92. To: HOUNDDAWG (#86)
"Honey, does this dress make my butt look fat?"
#93. To: YertleTurtle (#92)
"Honey, does this dress make my butt look fat?"
#94. To: FormerLurker, JCHarris (#51)
You may have been more right than I thought.
It's not Global Warming, it's Ice Age Abatement.
#95. To: wudidiz (#60)
I'm learning HTML 'n' stuff
It's not Global Warming, it's Ice Age Abatement.
#96. To: IndieTX (#74)
The bastards have ALLOWED us to be infected with mad cow by refusing to allow extensive testing even by private owners.
It's not Global Warming, it's Ice Age Abatement.
#97. To: wudidiz (#79)
Chicks Dig the TRUTH
It's not Global Warming, it's Ice Age Abatement.
#98. To: YertleTurtle, HOUNDDAWG, wudidiz (#92)
Don' EVER say "just fine." The female brain perceive it as "fat and ugly."
It's not Global Warming, it's Ice Age Abatement.
#99. To: farmfriendm JCHarris (#94)
It was BrerRabbit that came up with it. He is a molecular biologist; I figure he knows a thing or two.
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#100. To: farmfriend (#96)
That should have raised red flags with everyone. Private testing should have been the first choice. Get private testing, certification by a third party and carry insurance. This should be the method used in all types of agriculture AND in environmental programs! The people could log their own land, mine etc. After all the Nature Conservancy does it, why can't you!
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#101. To: All (#94)
#102. To: FormerLurker (#37)
don't have suppressed immune systems
#103. To: FormerLurker (#40)
weaponized mycoplasma
#104. To: FormerLurker (#51)
You may have been more right than I thought. A wasting disease caused by spiroplasmas certainly would appear to be similar to Alzheimer's. See the posts above..
#105. To: Jethro Tull, Former Lurker, christine, ALL (#101)
Remember...G-d saved more animals than people on the ark. www.siameserescue.org
#106. To: JCHarris (#102)
This study indicates a pathogen rather than a chemical.
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#107. To: who knows what evil (#105)
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#108. To: FormerLurker (#107)
Remember...G-d saved more animals than people on the ark. www.siameserescue.org
#109. To: FormerLurker, christine, innieway, farmfriend, Jethro Tull, IndieTx, Zipporah (#106)
#110. To: JCHarris (#109)
Remember...G-d saved more animals than people on the ark. www.siameserescue.org
#111. To: who knows what evil (#110)
.if aerial spraying is going on to affect the bee population; what is happening to the vegetables all of this stuff is settling upon?
#112. To: JCHarris (#111)
Remember...G-d saved more animals than people on the ark. www.siameserescue.org
#113. To: who knows what evil (#112)
I was referring to the high altitude 'spraying' that many call 'chemtrails'. There were jets laying down criss-cross patterns all over WNC and East Tennessee around noon. Some believe this may affecting the bees, and who knows what else? Whatever it is...it's just hanging in the sky, lowering and spreading by the hour. I'll be staying inside today. :-)
#114. To: JCHarris (#113)
IMO
#115. To: HOUNDDAWG (#114)
I'm old enough to remember when vapor trails from planes dissipated before the plane was halfway across the horizon.
#116. To: JCHarris (#115)
(and no jets to speak of when you were young)
#117. To: HOUNDDAWG (#116)
1. Well, it's true that Wilbur and Orville didn't use jets, but they didn't leave vapor trails either.
#118. To: JCHarris (#113)
Want to know if it is going to rain? Look for the contrails to last and last and last ....thus stretch across the sky.
Remember...G-d saved more animals than people on the ark. www.siameserescue.org
#119. To: HOUNDDAWG (#114)
I'm old enough to remember when vapor trails from planes dissipated before the plane was halfway across the horizon.
Remember...G-d saved more animals than people on the ark. www.siameserescue.org
#120. To: who knows what evil (#118)
#121. To: JCHarris, who knows what evil (#113)
IMO
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#122. To: JCHarris (#120)
Pay closer attention now and record the short disappearing contrail and record next to it the rainfall/cloud cover from the record every day for three days.
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#123. To: FormerLurker (#121)
but water vapor dissipates rather rapidly
#124. To: JCHarris (#120)
Pay closer attention now and record the short disappearing contrail and record next to it the rainfall/cloud cover from the record every day for three days.
Remember...G-d saved more animals than people on the ark. www.siameserescue.org
#125. To: JCHarris (#120)
Remember...G-d saved more animals than people on the ark. www.siameserescue.org
#126. To: JCHarris (#109)
The state beekeepers associations are the ones doing all this right now. There was recently a large meeting in Charlotte NC of just the scientists, those with documented observations, research committees and people like Wyatt Mangum, a mathematics professor, et al. who carry the water for everybody at no compensation.
#127. To: Zipporah (#126)
pretty much screwed
#128. To: Zipporah (#126)
An observation.. I've not see a honey bee in my area for at least two summers..
#129. To: JCHarris (#128)
For all practical purposes, the honeybee, Apis mellifera, is extinct in the wild. There was not a peep from Natl Geo et al.
#130. To: JCHarris, all on thread (#123)
The below is from an earlier 4UM thread on chemtrails. Much of the info proves that chemtrails are a mixture of some truths with outright lies. I have no doubt chemtrails are real; however, I have not seen any picture of so-called "chemtrails" that are not actually normally behaving contrails.
#131. To: Zipporah (#129)
I wonder why there hasnt been more news about this.. ?
#132. To: robin (#0)
#133. To: JCHarris (#131)
Chinese to send in thousands of tons of uninspected, toxin-laden and mite infested honey.
#134. To: JCHarris, zipporah, btp holdings (#131)
SEP 2002 (!!!!)
#135. To: Neil McIver (#132)
Reports from the Organic Consumers Association state that bee losses are affecting commercial, and not organic, beekeepers. Commercial beekeepers breed bees to be larger than they would grow in their natural habitats and larger bees create larger holes in beehives. Some theorize that, with these larger holes, mites may more readily enter and infest the hive, which the bees will then abandon. In Minnesota, researchers at the U of M Extension Service Bee Lab think that the massive bee disappearance may be caused by many factors coming to a head for these sensitive creatures. Overuse of pesticides was called out as a death knell to pollinators in Rachel Carson's "Silent Spring" 40 years ago, and we now use twice as much pesticide on our agricultural land. Combine an abused immune system with more aggressive mites and lots of "electrosmog" messing with an internal sense of direction, and you have one sick honeybee!
#136. To: Neil McIver (#132)
#137. To: Zipporah (#133)
#138. To: IndieTX (#134)
(Edited)
#139. To: IndieTX, Neil McIver (#135)
(Edited)
Reports from the Organic Consumers Association state that bee losses are affecting commercial, and not organic, beekeepers. Commercial beekeepers breed bees to be larger than they would grow in their natural habitats and larger bees create larger holes in beehives. Some theorize that, with these larger holes, mites may more readily enter and infest the hive, which the bees will then abandon. In Minnesota, researchers at the U of M Extension Service Bee Lab think that the massive bee disappearance may be caused by many factors coming to a head for these sensitive creatures. Overuse of pesticides was called out as a death knell to pollinators in Rachel Carson's "Silent Spring" 40 years ago, and we now use twice as much pesticide on our agricultural land. Combine an abused immune system with more aggressive mites and lots of "electrosmog" messing with an internal sense of direction, and you have one sick honeybee!
The haemolymph of honey-bees affected by a May disease-like disorder in southwestern France contained numerous spiroplasmas. Further characterization of the organisms and pathogenicity assays showed that the causal agent of the disease was a spiroplasma belonging to group IV. The name Spiroplasma apis was given to the reference strain B31 (ATCC 33834), one of the numerous similar isolates cultured from May-disease-affected bees. Spiroplasma isolates related to S. apis could be grown from the surface of flowers collected within the area visited by bees from the diseased hives. Several other strains belonging to group IV spiroplasmas were also isolated from the surface of flowers growing in southwestern France. In the same area, we also isolated, from pools of apparently healthy honey-bees and from the surface of a tulip tree flower, spiroplasma strains belonging to group I-2. One of these strains was shown to be pathogenic when introduced into adult bees by injection or food ingestion.
Spiroplasmas are motile and show helicoidal morphology, they are frequently isolated from intestine, salivary glands, homocele of insects and the surface of plants and flowers.46,13 Spiroplasma melliferum and Spiroplasma apis are pathogenic for bees, they cross the intestine barrier reaching hemolinfa where they reproduce and induce death of their host.4 Spiroplasma have also been reported in Aedes aegypti mosquito reducing the fertility of the insects, opening the possibility of their use as biological control of mosquito.
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#140. To: IndieTX (#135)
Organic bees not affected according to some
#141. To: BTP Holdings (#140)
I've still not been able to confirm this. But, it seems that the rise in cell phone and other communications may have someting to do with it. Electromagnetic radiation has always had a bad effect on bees and it causes them to lose their navigation abilities. There's very few places now without cell towers and microwave transmission with the government plan to track everything with RFID chips coming closer.
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#142. To: FormerLurker (#141)
(Edited)
#143. To: JCHarris (#136)
First define an "organic hive".
#144. To: BTP Holdings (#140)
But, it seems that the rise in cell phone and other communications may have someting to do with it.
#145. To: Neil McIver (#132)
In case no one's mentioned it on this thread, there's a claim here that organic hives are not having any die off/CCD problems:
#146. To: Neil McIver (#143)
#147. To: Fred Mertz (#145)
#148. To: Neil McIver (#144)
I tend to doubt it since this CCD has started rather suddenly and cell towers have been going up steadily for some time.
The latest research on the mass disappearance of bees (Colony Collapse Disorder, or CCD) in the United States and Europe indicates that cell phones could be involved. Radiation from phones along with other hi-tech gadgetry may be interfering with the bees' navigation systems. Various theories have been tested, but this one is hitting pay dirt. German research has long shown that bee behavior changse near power lines. Now a study at the University of Landau has shown that bees refuse to return to their hives when cell phones are placed nearby. It's still just a theory, but if massive food shortages strike due to lack of pollination, we may find that talk is not so cheap. By assessing one cent per pound on domestic and imported honey the National Honey Board is making $100,000 available to help solve this mystery.
#149. To: IndieTX (#130)
#150. To: JCHarris (#146)
I know of no such "study" and I just got back from a beekeepers science review and research session in Charlotte...
#151. To: Neil McIver (#149)
(Edited)
And the picture even shows other clouds in the area. One logic question: If clouds can start and stop in an otherwise blue patch of sky, why couldn't a contrail?
#152. To: Neil McIver (#150)
#153. To: JCHarris (#137)
#154. To: christine (#153)
#155. To: BTP Holdings (#140)
Reports from the Organic Consumers Association state that bee losses are affecting commercial, and not organic, beekeepers. Commercial beekeepers breed bees to be larger than they would grow in their natural habitats and larger bees create larger holes in beehives.
#156. To: Neil McIver, christine, FormerLurker, Original_Intent, BTP Holdings, Indie_TX, HOUNDDAWG, ALL (#149)
Then there's the question of what there is to gain from such chemical dumping.
#157. To: FormerLurker (#156)
#158. To: wudidiz (#157)
Hey, trouble-maker:
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#159. To: All (#157)
#160. To: Neil McIver, JCHarris (#149)
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#161. To: FormerLurker (#160)
#162. To: FormerLurker, Neil McIver, ALL (#160)
#163. To: FormerLurker (#160)
#164. To: wudidiz (#162)
My Dad was a fighter pilot and then an airline pilot.
#165. To: JCHarris (#164)
non sequitur
#166. To: All (#165)
#167. To: wudidiz (#165)
#168. To: wudidiz (#165)
#169. To: PercyDovetonsils (#167)
#170. To: JCHarris (#169)
#171. To: FormerLurker (#160)
#172. To: All (#170)
#173. To: wudidiz (#162)
That's why I'm not out enjoying the "sunshine"!!!!!!!!!!
#174. To: wudidiz (#166)
Ron Paul voted AGAINST chemtrails.
#175. To: PercyDovetonsils (#167)
Thoughts that are not exactly connected with the preceeding thoughts.
#176. To: christine (#174)
#177. To: All (#176)
#178. To: wudidiz (#175)
#179. To: Neil McIver (#171)
I remember seeing contrails as a kid (early 70's), and I don't think they had the longevity then as I've seen as an adult. But assuming my memory is correct and that it had nothing to do with the local weather where I lived as a kid, that's still possibly explained with engine advances which there have certainly been.
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#180. To: All (#177)
#181. To: Neil McIver (#171)
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#182. To: FormerLurker (#179)
#183. To: wudidiz (#182)
You're gonna get us kicked outa here.
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#184. To: wudidiz (#162)
My Dad was a fighter pilot and then an airline pilot.
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#185. To: FormerLurker (#184)
AV-8A Harriers
#186. To: FormerLurker (#183)
You're gonna get us kicked outa here.
#187. To: wudidiz, FormerLurker (#185)
It's not Global Warming, it's Ice Age Abatement.
#188. To: wudidiz (#177)
The people responsible for putting them up there are planning to exterminate 50 - 80% of US.
"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men" Plato
#189. To: wudidiz (#185)
He also flew a Mig-29.
"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men" Plato
#190. To: farmfriend (#187)
My favorite is the Warthog.
"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men" Plato
#191. To: tom007 (#189)
Not too many US fly boys have done that. Any comments from him about the plane?
#192. To: Neil McIver (#171)
#193. To: FormerLurker (#179)
When you watched planes leave contrails as a kid, did those planes turn off their contrails, turn around 180 degrees, turn the contrails on, turn them off, then turn around 180 degrees again, turning them back on? Did you see two or more planes doing the same thing at once?
#194. To: FormerLurker (#181)
Did the contrails you saw as a kid turn into clouds, leaving the sky a hazy grey color where the sky had once been bright blue?
#195. To: farmfriend (#187)
My favorite is the Warthog.
#196. To: JCHarris (#192)
I would imagine it does simply from the principle of saturation with water vapor and resultant ice crystals. Higher altitudes would support less water vapor and lead to precipitation of ice crystals more readily than a more condensed air solvent.
#197. To: Neil McIver (#196)
Fiddling with it, it did seem that you could go from no contrail to a heavy persistent trail by just making a slight adjustment in temperature (moving the red ball slightly on the lower right hand corner of the screen.
#198. To: Neil McIver, JC Harris, all (#196)
#199. To: Neil McIver (#194)
I don't recall seeing that as a kid, but certainly I have seen that as an adult.
Remember...G-d saved more animals than people on the ark. www.siameserescue.org
#200. To: Neil McIver (#193)
When you watched planes leave contrails as a kid, did those planes turn off their contrails, turn around 180 degrees, turn the contrails on, turn them off, then turn around 180 degrees again, turning them back on?
#201. To: farmfriend (#187)
My favorite is the Warthog.
#202. To: noone222 (#200)
Oh, it's nothing to be concerned about the pilots are just playing tic tac toe ...
#203. To: who knows what evil (#199)
Saw it yesterday in East Tennessee...even my skeptic wife admitted that all those jets leaving trails that "wouldn't evaporate" was something unusual.
#204. To: HOUNDDAWG (#201)
AND, those 30mm rounds will penetrate any rolling stock on earth.
It's not Global Warming, it's Ice Age Abatement.
#205. To: HOUNDDAWG (#201)
If the enemy (and, sadly, occasionally friendlies) see a Warthog closing in it's time for a quick Hail Mary.....
#206. To: farmfriend (#204)
Can't you blow away a huge amount of the aircraft and it will still stay in the air? Just incredible machines.
#207. To: Neil McIver (#206)
Of course a pilot would recognize that such a design means that he's likely to be a popular target.
It's not Global Warming, it's Ice Age Abatement.
#208. To: farmfriend (#204)
Can't you blow away a huge amount of the aircraft and it will still stay in the air? Just incredible machines. Everyone seems to like the pretty and fast ones but that one will always be my favorite.
#209. To: Neil McIver (#205)
Especially for local residents who will have to deal with the depleted uranium scattered on their land.
#210. To: robin (#0)
#211. To: TommyTheMadArtist, Neil McIver, farmfriend, Former Lurker (#210)
but one keeper who is 100 percent organic is splitting hives, and raising queens like nobody's business.
#212. To: JCHarris (#202)
Your deduction is a good use of the Occam's Razor delivered into your care.
#213. To: noone222 (#212)
: noone222 (#200)
#214. To: robin (#211)
but one keeper who is 100 percent organic is splitting hives, and raising queens like nobody's business.
#215. To: JCHarris (#214)
#216. To: robin (#215)
#217. To: JCHarris (#216)
Lending credence to this theory is that organic bee colonies, where chemicals and genetically modified crops are avoided, are not experiencing the same kind of catastrophic collapses, according to the non-profit Organic Consumers Association.
#218. To: robin (#217)
Lending credence to this theory is that organic bee colonies, where chemicals and genetically modified crops are avoided, are not experiencing the same kind of catastrophic collapses, according to the non-profit Organic Consumers Association.
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