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Science/Tech
See other Science/Tech Articles

Title: Bees dropping like flies
Source: http://www.latimes.com/
URL Source: http://www.latimes.com/news/science ... 2658.story?coll=la-home-center
Published: Jun 9, 2007
Author: http://www.latimes.com/
Post Date: 2007-06-09 22:28:41 by robin
Keywords: None
Views: 4236
Comments: 218

Mysterious deaths of bees take broad toll
As scientists try to explain why colonies are vanishing, worried beekeepers and farmers add up their losses.

By Jia-Rui Chong and Thomas H. Maugh II
Times Staff Writers

June 10, 2007

The dead bees under Dennis vanEngelsdorp's microscope were like none he had ever seen before.

He had expected to see mites or amoebas, perennial pests of bees. Instead, he found internal organs swollen with debris and strangely blackened. The bees' intestinal tracts were scarred, and their rectums were abnormally full of what appeared to be partly digested pollen. Dark marks on the sting glands were telltale signs of infection.

"The more you looked, the more you found," said VanEngelsdorp, the acting apiarist for the state of Pennsylvania. "Each thing was a surprise."

VanEngelsdorp's examination of the bees in November was one of the first scientific glimpses of a mysterious honeybee die-off that has launched an intense search for a cure.

The puzzling phenomenon, known as Colony Collapse Disorder, or CCD, has been reported in 35 states, five Canadian provinces and several European countries. The die-off has cost U.S. beekeepers about $150 million in losses and an uncertain amount for farmers scrambling to find bees to pollinate their crops.

Scientists have scoured the country, finding eerily abandoned hives in which the bees seem to have simply left their honey and broods of baby bees.

"We've never experienced bees going off and leaving brood behind," said Pennsylvania-based beekeeper Dave Hackenberg. "It was like a mother going off and leaving her kids."

Researchers have picked through the abandoned hives, dissected thousands of bees, and tested for viruses, bacteria, pesticides and mites.

So far, they are stumped.

According to the Apiary Inspectors of America, 24% of 384 beekeeping operations across the country lost more than 50% of their colonies from September to March. Some have lost 90%.

"I'm worried about the bees," said Dan Boyer, 52, owner of Ridgetop Orchards in Fishertown, Pa., which grows apples. "The more I learn about it, the more I think it is a national tragedy."

At Boyer's orchard, 400 acres of apple trees — McIntosh, Honey Crisp, Red Delicious and 11 other varieties — have just begun to bud white flowers.

Boyer's trees need to be pollinated. Incompletely pollinated blooms would still grow apples, he said, but the fruit would be small and misshapen, suitable only for low-profit juice.

This year, he will pay dearly for the precious bees — $13,000 for 200 hives, the same price that 300 hives cost him last year.

The scene is being repeated throughout the country, where honeybees, scientifically known as Apis mellifera, are required to pollinate a third of the nation's food crop, including almonds, cherries, blueberries, pears, strawberries and pumpkins.

Vanishing colonies

One of the earliest alarms was sounded by Hackenberg, who used to keep about 3,000 hives in dandelion-covered fields near the Susquehanna River in Pennsylvania.

In November, Hackenberg, 58, was at his winter base in Florida. He peeked in on a group of 400 beehives he had driven down from his home in West Milton, Pa., a month before. He went from empty box to empty box. Only about 40 had bees in them.

"It was just the most phenomenal thing I thought I'd ever seen," he said.

The next morning, Hackenberg called Jerry Hayes, the chief of apiary inspection at the Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services and president of the Apiary Inspectors of America.

Hayes mentioned some bee die-offs in Georgia that, until then, hadn't seemed significant.

Hackenberg drove back to West Milton with a couple of dead beehives and live colonies that had survived. He handed them over to researchers at Pennsylvania State University.

With amazing speed, the bees vanished from his other hives, more than 70% of which were abandoned by February.

Hackenberg, a talkative, wiry man with a deeply lined face, figured he lost more than $460,000 this winter for replacement bees, lost honey and missed pollination opportunities.

"If that happens again, we're out of business," he said.

It didn't take researchers long to figure out they were dealing with something new.

VanEngelsdorp, a sandy-bearded 37-year-old, quickly eliminated the most obvious suspects: Varroa and tracheal mites, which have occasionally wrought damage on hives since the 1980s.

At the state lab in Harrisburg, Pa., VanEngelsdorp checked bee samples from Pennsylvania and Georgia. He washed bees with soapy water to dislodge Varroa mites and cut the thorax of the bees to look for tracheal mites; he found that the number of mites was not unusually high.

His next guess was amoebic infection. He scanned the bees' kidneys for cysts and found a handful, but not enough to explain the population decline.

VanEngelsdorp dug through scientific literature looking for other mass disappearances.

He found the first reference in a 1869 federal report, detailing a mysterious bee disappearance. There was only speculation as to the cause — possibly poisonous honey or maybe a hot summer.

A 1923 handbook on bee culture noted that a "disappearing disease" went away in a short time without treatment. There was a reference to "fall dwindle" in a 1965 scientific article to describe sudden disappearances in Texas and Louisiana.

He found other references but no explanations.

VanEngelsdorp traveled to Florida and California at the beginning of the year to collect adult bees, brood, nectar, pollen and comb for a more systematic study. He went to 11 apiaries, both sick and healthy, and collected 102 colonies.

A number of the pollen samples went to Maryann Frazier, a honeybee specialist at Penn State who has been coordinating the pesticide investigation. Her group has been testing for 106 chemicals used to kill mites, funguses or other pests.

Scientists have focused on a new group of pesticides known as neonicotinoids, which have spiked in popularity because they are safe for people, Frazier said. Previous studies have shown that these pesticides can kill bees and throw off their ability to learn and navigate, she said.

Researchers have yet to collect enough data to come to any conclusions, but the experience of French beekeepers casts doubt on the theory. France banned the most commonly used neonicotinoid in 1999 after complaints from beekeepers that it was killing their colonies. French hives, however, are doing no better now, experts said.

Sniffing out the culprit

Entomologist Jerry J. Bromenshenk of the University of Montana launched his own search for poisons, relying on the enhanced odor sensitivity of bees — about 40 times better than that of humans.

When a colony is exposed to a new chemical odor, he said, its sound changes in volume and frequency, producing a unique audio signature.

Bromenshenk has been visiting beekeepers around the country, recording hive sounds and taking them back to his lab for analysis. To date, no good candidates have surfaced.

If the cause is not a poison, it is most likely a parasite.

UC San Francisco researchers announced in April that they had found a single-celled protozoan called Nosema ceranae in bees from colonies with the collapse disorder.

Unfortunately, Bromenshenk said, "we see equal levels of Nosema in CCD colonies and healthy colonies."

Several researchers, including entomologist Diana Cox-Foster of Penn State and Dr. W. Ian Lipkin, a virologist at Columbia University, have been sifting through bees that have been ground up, looking for viruses and bacteria.

"We were shocked by the huge number of pathogens present in each adult bee," Cox-Foster said at a recent meeting of bee researchers convened by the U.S. Department of Agriculture.

The large number of pathogens suggested, she said, that the bees' immune systems had been suppressed, allowing the proliferation of infections.

The idea that a pathogen is involved is supported by recent experiments conducted by VanEngelsdorp and USDA entomologist Jeffrey S. Pettis.

One of the unusual features of the disorder is that the predators of abandoned beehives, such as hive beetles and wax moths, refuse to venture into infected hives for weeks or longer.

"It's as if there is something repellent or toxic about the colony," said Hayes, the Florida inspector.

To test this idea, VanEngelsdorp and Pettis set up 200 beehive boxes with new, healthy bees from Australia and placed them in the care of Hackenberg.

Fifty of the hives were irradiated to kill potential pathogens. Fifty were fumigated with concentrated acetic acid, a hive cleanser commonly used in Canada. Fifty were filled with honey frames that had been taken from Hackenberg's colonies before the collapse, and the last 50 were hives that had been abandoned that winter.

When VanEngelsdorp visited the colonies at the beginning of May, bees in the untouched hive were clearly struggling, filling only about a quarter of a frame. Bees living on the reused honeycomb were alive but not thriving. A hive that had been fumigated with acetic acid was better.

When he popped open an irradiated hive, bees were crawling everywhere. "This does imply there is something biological," he said.

If it is a pathogen or a parasite, honeybees are poorly equipped to deal with it, said entomologist May Berenbaum of the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign.

The honeybee genome has only half as many genes to detoxify poisons and to fight off infections as do other insects.

"There is something about the life of the honeybee that has led to the loss of a lot of genes associated with detoxification, associated with the immune system," she said.

Bee conspiracies

In the absence of knowledge, theories have proliferated, including one that Osama bin Laden has engineered the die-off to disrupt American agriculture.

One of the most pervasive theories is that cellphone transmissions are causing the disappearances — an idea that originated with a recent German study. Berenbaum called the theory "a complete figment of the imagination."

The German physicist who conducted the tiny study "disclaimed the connection to cellphones," she said. "What they put in the colony was a cordless phone. Whoever translated the story didn't know the difference."

Another popular theory is that the bees have been harmed by corn genetically engineered to contain the pesticide B.t.

Berenbaum shot down the idea: "Here in Illinois, we're surrounded by an ocean of B.t. pollen, and the bees are not afflicted."

And so the search continues.

Many beekeepers have few options but to start rebuilding. Gene Brandi, a veteran beekeeper based in Los Banos, Calif., lost 40% of his 2,000 colonies this winter.

Brandi knows plenty of beekeepers who sold their equipment at bargain prices.

Scurrying around a blackberry farm near Watsonville, Brandi was restocking his bees. Dressed in a white jumpsuit and yellow bee veil, the exuberant 55-year-old pulled out a frame of honeycomb from a hive that had so many bees they were spilling out the front entrance.

"When it's going good like this, you forget CCD," he said.

Hackenberg, who has spent his whole life in the business, isn't giving up either. He borrowed money and restocked with bees from Australia.

In April, the normally hale Hackenberg started feeling short of breath. His doctor said he was suffering from stress and suggested he slow down.

Not now, Hackenberg thought. "I'm going to go down fighting."

jia-rui.chong@latimes.com, thomas.maugh@latimes.com

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#179. To: Neil McIver (#171)

I remember seeing contrails as a kid (early 70's), and I don't think they had the longevity then as I've seen as an adult. But assuming my memory is correct and that it had nothing to do with the local weather where I lived as a kid, that's still possibly explained with engine advances which there have certainly been.

B-17s left contrails during WWII so contrails themselves are nothing new.

When you watched planes leave contrails as a kid, did those planes turn off their contrails, turn around 180 degrees, turn the contrails on, turn them off, then turn around 180 degrees again, turning them back on? Did you see two or more planes doing the same thing at once?


You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006

FormerLurker  posted on  2007-06-11   0:10:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#180. To: All (#177)

goin' out for some 'fresh' air.

The important thing is never to stop questioning. ~ Albert Einstein

wudidiz  posted on  2007-06-11   0:10:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#181. To: Neil McIver (#171)

Did the contrails you saw as a kid turn into clouds, leaving the sky a hazy grey color where the sky had once been bright blue?


You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006

FormerLurker  posted on  2007-06-11   0:12:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#182. To: FormerLurker (#179)

You're gonna get us kicked outa here.

The important thing is never to stop questioning. ~ Albert Einstein

wudidiz  posted on  2007-06-11   0:12:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#183. To: wudidiz (#182)

You're gonna get us kicked outa here.

Nah, Neil is cool, and so is christine and Zipporah. It's just good discussion.


You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006

FormerLurker  posted on  2007-06-11   0:13:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#184. To: wudidiz (#162)

My Dad was a fighter pilot and then an airline pilot.

I know what the difference between a chemtrail and a contrail is.

I was stationed at a Marine Corps Air Station where we had F-4 Phantoms, A-4 Skyhawks, AV-8A Harriers, and many times would have visiting Air Force cargo planes and fighters.

So I myself know the difference as well.


You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006

FormerLurker  posted on  2007-06-11   0:30:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#185. To: FormerLurker (#184)

AV-8A Harriers

Harriers were one of my favorites. One of the planes he flew was the 'widow-maker'.

He also flew a Mig-29.

The important thing is never to stop questioning. ~ Albert Einstein

wudidiz  posted on  2007-06-11   0:41:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#186. To: FormerLurker (#183)

You're gonna get us kicked outa here.

Nah, Neil is cool, and so is christine and Zipporah. It's just good discussion.

Yes, I was just trying to be funny.

The important thing is never to stop questioning. ~ Albert Einstein

wudidiz  posted on  2007-06-11   0:43:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#187. To: wudidiz, FormerLurker (#185)

My favorite is the Warthog.


It's not Global Warming, it's Ice Age Abatement.

farmfriend  posted on  2007-06-11   0:44:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#188. To: wudidiz (#177)

The people responsible for putting them up there are planning to exterminate 50 - 80% of US.

Um...now I lost my train of thought.

See, See, its working already.

"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men" Plato

tom007  posted on  2007-06-11   0:46:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#189. To: wudidiz (#185)

He also flew a Mig-29.

Not too many US fly boys have done that. Any comments from him about the plane?

"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men" Plato

tom007  posted on  2007-06-11   0:48:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#190. To: farmfriend (#187)

My favorite is the Warthog.

Easy to fly from what I've heard.

They visit Colorado Springs on occasion from their base in (Yuma?) AZ and loiter around. Kinda scary.

"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men" Plato

tom007  posted on  2007-06-11   0:51:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#191. To: tom007 (#189)

Not too many US fly boys have done that. Any comments from him about the plane?

Yes. But that was in '86 so I'm not so clear on the details, except he said it was a good plane, but not as good as the F-18. If I remember right, he said it had good power , he was exhibiting it for the Soviets, as they were wanting to market it to the west.

The important thing is never to stop questioning. ~ Albert Einstein

wudidiz  posted on  2007-06-11   1:01:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#192. To: Neil McIver (#171)

I have frequently flown between 36000 and 42000 feet and on several occasions higher. I have also flown commercially at 25000 feet to 30,000 feet. Given a defined upper atmosphere wind speed, and saturation with water vapor, I wonder if the altitude itself makes a big difference? I would imagine it does simply from the principle of saturation with water vapor and resultant ice crystals. Higher altitudes would support less water vapor and lead to precipitation of ice crystals more readily than a more condensed air solvent.

JCHarris  posted on  2007-06-11   3:34:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#193. To: FormerLurker (#179)

When you watched planes leave contrails as a kid, did those planes turn off their contrails, turn around 180 degrees, turn the contrails on, turn them off, then turn around 180 degrees again, turning them back on? Did you see two or more planes doing the same thing at once?

No and no. But I've not seen that as an adult either.

Pinguinite.com

Neil McIver  posted on  2007-06-11   5:11:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#194. To: FormerLurker (#181)

Did the contrails you saw as a kid turn into clouds, leaving the sky a hazy grey color where the sky had once been bright blue?

I don't recall seeing that as a kid, but certainly I have seen that as an adult.

Pinguinite.com

Neil McIver  posted on  2007-06-11   5:12:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#195. To: farmfriend (#187)

My favorite is the Warthog.

Except their main purpose is to shoot DU.

Pinguinite.com

Neil McIver  posted on  2007-06-11   5:14:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#196. To: JCHarris (#192)

I would imagine it does simply from the principle of saturation with water vapor and resultant ice crystals. Higher altitudes would support less water vapor and lead to precipitation of ice crystals more readily than a more condensed air solvent.

Don't know enough about the subject to rattle off detailed math, but the link earlier in this thread to a contrail java demo lets you set temperature and relative humidity and then graphically demonstrates the resulting contrail. Fiddling with it, it did seem that you could go from no contrail to a heavy persistent trail by just making a slight adjustment in temperature (moving the red ball slightly on the lower right hand corner of the screen.

Pinguinite.com

Neil McIver  posted on  2007-06-11   5:19:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#197. To: Neil McIver (#196)

Fiddling with it, it did seem that you could go from no contrail to a heavy persistent trail by just making a slight adjustment in temperature (moving the red ball slightly on the lower right hand corner of the screen.

Yes....just as in cloud formation.

BTW I have never seen any color morphing as you guys describe.

I have seen light shifts from changed angles of the sun or distant high cloud light scatter which I deemed an optical change rather than a massive spraying of earth.

FWIW

Occams Razor ?

JCHarris  posted on  2007-06-11   5:23:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#198. To: Neil McIver, JC Harris, all (#196)

chemtrails are aerosol spraying, contrails are engine exhaust.

:^)

The important thing is never to stop questioning. ~ Albert Einstein

wudidiz  posted on  2007-06-11   6:03:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#199. To: Neil McIver (#194)

I don't recall seeing that as a kid, but certainly I have seen that as an adult.

Saw it yesterday in East Tennessee...even my skeptic wife admitted that all those jets leaving trails that "wouldn't evaporate" was something unusual.

Remember...G-d saved more animals than people on the ark. www.siameserescue.org

who knows what evil  posted on  2007-06-11   6:31:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#200. To: Neil McIver (#193)

When you watched planes leave contrails as a kid, did those planes turn off their contrails, turn around 180 degrees, turn the contrails on, turn them off, then turn around 180 degrees again, turning them back on?

Oh, it's nothing to be concerned about the pilots are just playing tic tac toe ...

RON PAUL or REVOLUTION [we don't report and you certainly don't decide]

noone222  posted on  2007-06-11   6:34:08 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#201. To: farmfriend (#187)

My favorite is the Warthog.

I watched a pilot at an airshow take off on a short runway (without bombs and loaded light of course) and go straight up for a mile or so in a Warthog.

The really fascinating thing about the plane is, it's built around a 30mm cannon that runs nearly the entire length of the airframe, and when firing the recoil is so powerful that sustained fire would actually stall the aircraft in flight!

AND, those 30mm rounds will penetrate any rolling stock on earth. There is simply no tank or armor it cannot penetrate.

If the enemy (and, sadly, occasionally friendlies) see a Warthog closing in it's time for a quick Hail Mary.....

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2007-06-11   8:35:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#202. To: noone222 (#200)

Oh, it's nothing to be concerned about the pilots are just playing tic tac toe ...

That's absolutely true. I am glad you recognize that very simple fact.

You probably looked at an air route map and realized airplanes fly North-South

but also East-West

and thus their paths intersect.

Your deduction is a good use of the Occam's Razor delivered into your care.

JCHarris  posted on  2007-06-11   8:41:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#203. To: who knows what evil (#199)

Saw it yesterday in East Tennessee...even my skeptic wife admitted that all those jets leaving trails that "wouldn't evaporate" was something unusual.

" wouldn'y evaporate depends on the amount of the GAS H2O in the upper atmosphere !

Pure and simple.

And just to correct a technicality, what you see is not water, it is ice crystals and they must SUBLIMATE from solid to a gas....and if the thin atmosphere is SATURATED already with all that gas it can hold, the contrail ice crystalk do not sublimate....

just like hanging out your wet shirt on a cold muggy day does not DRY it either!

JCHarris  posted on  2007-06-11   8:45:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#204. To: HOUNDDAWG (#201)

AND, those 30mm rounds will penetrate any rolling stock on earth.

Can't you blow away a huge amount of the aircraft and it will still stay in the air? Just incredible machines. Everyone seems to like the pretty and fast ones but that one will always be my favorite.


It's not Global Warming, it's Ice Age Abatement.

farmfriend  posted on  2007-06-11   11:57:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#205. To: HOUNDDAWG (#201)

If the enemy (and, sadly, occasionally friendlies) see a Warthog closing in it's time for a quick Hail Mary.....

Especially for local residents who will have to deal with the depleted uranium scattered on their land.

The DU rounds should be considered nuclear WMD's and banned.

Pinguinite.com

Neil McIver  posted on  2007-06-11   13:01:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#206. To: farmfriend (#204)

Can't you blow away a huge amount of the aircraft and it will still stay in the air? Just incredible machines.

Yup, they are designed with redundant, low tech, systems through and through so they are difficult to shoot down. Of course a pilot would recognize that such a design means that he's likely to be a popular target.

Pinguinite.com

Neil McIver  posted on  2007-06-11   13:05:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#207. To: Neil McIver (#206)

Of course a pilot would recognize that such a design means that he's likely to be a popular target.

Yeah well you don't shoot tanks at 15,000 feet either.


It's not Global Warming, it's Ice Age Abatement.

farmfriend  posted on  2007-06-11   13:07:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#208. To: farmfriend (#204)

Can't you blow away a huge amount of the aircraft and it will still stay in the air? Just incredible machines. Everyone seems to like the pretty and fast ones but that one will always be my favorite.

That's right. They're slow by fighter jet standards, but when one considers the missions for which they were designed they are the closest thing to the Angel Of Death (albeit unholy in service to BushCo) we'll likely ever see.

Imagine joining the Hammurabi Division of Saddam's elite tank corps, walking proudly among the lessers with a snappy uniform but knowing all the while that the rolling pillbox has yet to be devised that can protect them from the mighty A-10 Thunderbolt II!

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2007-06-11   14:53:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#209. To: Neil McIver (#205)

Especially for local residents who will have to deal with the depleted uranium scattered on their land.

The DU rounds should be considered nuclear WMD's and banned.

I believe that the cradle of civilization is doomed.

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2007-06-11   15:08:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#210. To: robin (#0)

I went to the Farmer's Market the other day. Lot's of Bee keepers peddling honey. So, I bought something from each of them, and had a discussion about their bees. Some Beekeepers are losing their bees, some are thriving.

Minnesota Beekeepers who aren't commercial seem to be doing just fine. Minnesota Commercial Keepers are losing their bees.

Wisconsin Beekeepers on the whole seem to be doing much better than their Minnesota counterparts, but one keeper who is 100 percent organic is splitting hives, and raising queens like nobody's business.

Two co-relations came up in every discussion. 1. Nicotene based pesticides and 2. Chinese made Bee Food, used mostly by Commercial Bee Keepers.

I talked to a dozen beekeepers, and their take is this. It's something their eating. It isn't cell phones, it's not pollution, it's deliberate poisoning, because Bees have been around for millions of years, and it is only recently that they've suffered such a devastation on their numbers.

So, you have Monsanto, and... the same pricks who gave us the petfood recall.

Dying for old bastards, and their old money, isn't my idea of freedom.

TommyTheMadArtist  posted on  2007-06-11   15:15:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#211. To: TommyTheMadArtist, Neil McIver, farmfriend, Former Lurker (#210)

but one keeper who is 100 percent organic is splitting hives, and raising queens like nobody's business.

We keep hearing this, so the mystery must be half solved.

"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." ~George Washington

robin  posted on  2007-06-11   15:18:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#212. To: JCHarris (#202)

Your deduction is a good use of the Occam's Razor delivered into your care.

Morons of your caliber should adapt Occam's Razor to useful purposes and slit your throat and wrists.

RON PAUL or REVOLUTION [ALL MEDIA: We don't report and you certainly don't decide]

noone222  posted on  2007-06-12   7:48:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#213. To: noone222 (#212)

: noone222 (#200)

Oh, it's nothing to be concerned about the pilots are just playing tic tac toe ...

That's absolutely true. I am glad you recognize that very simple fact.

You probably looked at an air route map and realized airplanes fly North-South

but also East-West

and thus their paths intersect.

Your deduction is a good use of the Occam's Razor delivered into your care.

JCHarris

Morons of your caliber should adapt Occam's Razor to useful purposes and slit your throat and wrists. -noone222

Have a nice cup of coffee and a couple of aspirin old sport....you'll feel better soon.

Cheers !

JCHarris  posted on  2007-06-12   7:56:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#214. To: robin (#211)

but one keeper who is 100 percent organic is splitting hives, and raising queens like nobody's business.

We keep hearing this, so the mystery must be half solved.

Don't hold your breath over internet cyber anecdote.

JCHarris  posted on  2007-06-12   7:57:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#215. To: JCHarris (#214)

It's more than internet anecdote. There was an article posted here a month or so ago too. Here are other news links:

1. Organic Beekeepers Not Affected By Colony Collapse Disorder

2. It may be that the build-up of both synthetic chemicals and genetically modified crop pollen has reached a "tipping point," stressing bee populations to the point of collapse. Lending credence to this theory is that organic bee colonies, where chemicals and genetically modified crops are avoided, are not experiencing the same kind of catastrophic collapses, according to the non-profit Organic Consumers Association.

3. Interestingly, while conventional beekeepers have reported mass bee die-offs, organic beekeepers are not suffering the same losses. Sharon Labchuk, an organic beekeeper from P.E.I. hasn’t seen any. “I’m on an organic beekeeping email list of about 1,000 people, mostly Americans, and no one in the organic beekeeping world is reporting colony collapse on this list.” Labchuk reveals.

"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." ~George Washington

robin  posted on  2007-06-12   10:18:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#216. To: robin (#215)

I see nothing there that would stand any kind of close scrutiny. Which means it may be and it may not be. As a beekeeper, I doubt, from first-hand acquaintances and experimental attempts, the discourse from the "organic crowd".

IMO it is in large part a movement, an "-ism", strangely instigated and backed by the very people you abhor as part of their total control grand scheme.

I laud anyone doing whatever they want with their hives. I do NOT , never have and have never seen any beneficial, or even real effects of the so-called "organic bees" other than weakened colonies.

Integrated management utilizing a set of skills, analyses and intervention has proven to be reproducible in maintaining robust and healthy bee colonies.

IMO the "organic" bees crowd is blowing mutual admiration smoke without for the most part without knowing what they are doing , if, in fact they are even doing what they tout ; instead of the tout in most cases being the full substance.

JCHarris  posted on  2007-06-12   11:15:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#217. To: JCHarris (#216)

Lending credence to this theory is that organic bee colonies, where chemicals and genetically modified crops are avoided, are not experiencing the same kind of catastrophic collapses, according to the non-profit Organic Consumers Association.

Three sources, one of which is the above.

I am referencing this comment:

I see nothing there that would stand any kind of close scrutiny.

"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." ~George Washington

robin  posted on  2007-06-12   12:18:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#218. To: robin (#217)

Lending credence to this theory is that organic bee colonies, where chemicals and genetically modified crops are avoided, are not experiencing the same kind of catastrophic collapses, according to the non-profit Organic Consumers Association.

Three sources, one of which is the above.

still provides nothing definitive in any form or substance

JCHarris  posted on  2007-06-12   15:58:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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