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9/11
See other 9/11 Articles

Title: The Best Rebuttal To The Truthers
Source: rhymeswithright
URL Source: http://rhymeswithright.mu.nu/archives/229396.php
Published: Jun 15, 2007
Author: rhymeswithright
Post Date: 2007-06-15 09:11:39 by can of corn
Keywords: twoofers, tinfoil, ron paul
Views: 961
Comments: 92

You know, those loons that cannot believe that 9/11 was a terrorist attack and that instead our own government attacked America on 9/11.

No, it isn't an appeal to eyewitnesses, of whom there are many. It isn't an appeal to science, which overwhelmingly demonstrates that the official version is correct. Rather, it is a simple appeal to logic.

[T]o believe in many of these kooky conspiracy theories, you have to believe that tens of thousands, maybe even hundreds of thousands of Republicans, Democrats, Independents, politicians, bureaucrats, journalists, FBI agents, and CIA agents all know about an incredibly complex, monstrous plot against the United States, and are keeping their lips sealed while Charlie Sheen, Rosie O'Donnell, and the fruit loops who think Bush is a puppet of the Freemasons have figured it all out.

So much like the claim that the moon landings all took place in a soundstage, simple reality cannot sustain the conspiracy claims. After all, given the inability of small groups of people to keep small secrets, there is no way that a large group of people could possibly keep "the truth" hidden if 9/11 was a government conspiracy.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 75.

#1. To: can of corn (#0)

It doesn't take that many.

How many knew about the Reichstag Fire?

robin  posted on  2007-06-15   9:14:39 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: robin (#1) (Edited)

As David Ray Griffin points out, the secret of the Manhattan Project was kept for several years, even though many thousands of people must have known about it to some extent.

One might add that the secret of our having cracked the Enigma German cypher machine was kept for 30 years or so, even though, again, many thousands of people were briefed enough about the project to know that much.

aristeides  posted on  2007-06-15   9:48:57 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: aristeides (#7)

The Bush Administration couldn't even keep his wiretapping programs from being leaked. It's idiocy to suggest he could pull off a job like this without somebody leaking it.

And BTW, since hijackers didn't really fly planes with passengers into the WTCs, where are those planes and passengers and crew now? I'd love to here how Bush was supposed to have all these whisked away secretly without anyone noticing. You think Babara Olsen is now living on some secluded Pacific island?

can of corn  posted on  2007-06-15   9:55:29 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: can of corn (#9)

And BTW, since hijackers didn't really fly planes with passengers into the WTCs, where are those planes and passengers and crew now? I'd love to here how Bush was supposed to have all these whisked away secretly without anyone noticing. You think Babara Olsen is now living on some secluded Pacific island?

You really do love those straw men, don't you? I haven't committed myself to any particular theory of what happened on 9/11, merely to the conclusion that the official account of 9/11 is itself so absurd as to be unbelievable. Plenty of alternatives leave the planes hitting the buildings and the hijackers on board the planes.

aristeides  posted on  2007-06-15   10:21:53 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: aristeides (#13)

I haven't committed myself to any particular theory of what happened on 9/11,

Nor do any of the twoofers, because they can't fathom a plausible real life scenario that correlates with their conspiracy fantasies.

It's impossible to know EXACTLY what happened during the building collpases. And people can hear things which SOUND like explosions. And witnesses always have conflicting accounts. And some people will say controversial things just for publicity. Etc. Etc.

The twoofers dwell on such minitia as proof of some kind of conspiracy, but in reality, the conspiracy only exists in their brain addled imaginations.

can of corn  posted on  2007-06-15   10:28:33 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: can of corn (#14)

That our air defense system failed to perform as it always had you think is a piece of minutiae?

aristeides  posted on  2007-06-15   10:33:28 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: aristeides (#15)

That our air defense system failed to perform as it always had you think is a piece of minutiae?

WRONG

can of corn  posted on  2007-06-15   10:36:09 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: can of corn (#17)

I suggest you read David Ray Griffin's Debunking 9/11 Debunking. I believe he refutes the arguments that appear to be at your link.

aristeides  posted on  2007-06-15   10:39:16 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: aristeides (#19)

No, the link I gave you addresses the rebuttals as well as refuting the original claim.

can of corn  posted on  2007-06-15   10:40:49 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: can of corn (#20) (Edited)

No, the link I gave you addresses the rebuttals as well as refuting the original claim.

Then why don't you post them here and go through them?

Is it easier to post a suspicious link to a mass of crap and then say: "If you were to wade through that mess you would see I am right." ?

...  posted on  2007-06-15   10:42:54 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: ... (#21)

Then why don't you post them here and go through them?

Because, there are many links within the link I gave adressing all the points, and the arguments are long and detailed, and it's not practical to post them here.

I'm sorry that no Alex Jones' type 30 second sound bite is available. I'm aware that that is what the twoofers normally consider "proof."

can of corn  posted on  2007-06-15   10:46:08 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: can of corn (#24)

Because, there are many links within the link I gave adressing all the points, and the arguments are long and detailed, and it's not practical to post them here.

And you cannot give us a synopsis that we can check against the sources in the link and rip to shreds.

OK, that really does explain where you are coming from. I suspected this and that is why I made Post #21.

...  posted on  2007-06-15   10:48:21 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: ... (#26)

Here is a list of points addressed:

# Payne Stewart and the story of the “speedy” interception

# "It takes about one minute" for the FAA to contact NORAD about a problem plane, after which NORAD can scramble fighter jets “within a matter of minutes” to anywhere in the United States

# Fighter intercepts are routine, with 67 taking place in 9 months before 9/11

# A June 1st 2001 change in intercept procedures required all requests for assistance in hijackings to be approved by the Secretary of Defence

# Dick Cheney was in charge of NORAD hijacking exercises on 9/11

# Eye-witness testimony casts doubt on the time NORAD claimed they scrambled jets to intercept Flight 11

# Intercepts of suspect planes normally happen within 10 minutes. Why not on 9/11?

# The hijacked planes should still have been tracked on radar, even if their transponders were turned off

# The many war games and exercises scheduled for 9/11 delayed military response to the hijackings

# Why were fighters not launched from Andrews Air Force Base, closest to Washington?

# When fighters were launched, they flew at suspiciously slow speeds

# General Myers initial story was that no fighters were launched until after the Pentagon was hit

# The 9/11 Commission say that NORAD didn’t recognise the threat from 9/11-type attacks until they happened, but that just isn’t credible

*****************************

It addresses the implausibility of conspiracy claims for each point as well as the rebuttals made to the debunking of the conspiracy claims.

It should be quite clear that no brief synopsis is available other than the twoofers are full of caca.

can of corn  posted on  2007-06-15   10:52:34 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: can of corn, Zipporah, robin, rowdee, christine, lodwick, Jethro Tull, JC Harris (#31) (Edited)

# The hijacked planes should still have been tracked on radar, even if their transponders were turned off

Any commercial passenger jet that suddenly "goes dark" while on or off radar becomes an immediate priority and jets are scrambled to intercept.

Any commercial passenger plane that departs from its scheduled flight plan becomes an immediate priority and jets are scrambled to intercept.

In every incident when one or both of these anomalies were present (prior to this early Christmas/Channukah present to PNAC, neocons, military contractors, Israel, Larry Silverstein and BushCo) the planes that triggered the alarms were successfully intercepted if they remained airborne, and usually before those that crashed did so. (Payne Stewart)

In every case where any circumstances resulted in unanswered questions about the status, air worthiness and/or safety of every airborne commercial and private/corporate plane, fighter jets were dispatched and the airliners and private/corporate planes that remained airborne were successfully intercepted.

This is for two reasons. The military jets are so fast and strategically stationed that escape/evasion was (prior to 9/11) virtually impossible, and, all conceivable evasive tactics have been anticipated and remedies solidified into policy. No one has ever asserted that some new and unanticipated method(s) to defeat our air defenses were implemented that terrible day. No, we were told that, not only have official sources failed to agree on what times ATC and Norad were notified, but some in critical positions of responsibility were either mistaken or confused, and, that no crime was committed when one ATC supervisor destroyed an audiotape and spread the broken pieces between several trash receptacles, and none of those trained and charged with US airspace safety have been demoted or discharged and in fact many have been promoted since that terrible day.

These intercepts are successfully accomplished about 100 times a year, and without exception.

There are simply no legitimate unanticipated contingencies that could have permitted four airliners to have defeated the multi billion dollar redundant air safety and defense systems that terrible day, unless it was allowed to happen.

Only persons who are too petrified to contemplate the implications of this, and those who desperately want the official fairie tale to be accepted could assert, or (in the case of the really afflicted dummies, believe) otherwise.

And, if the official story was accurate the studies to identify and close these deadly breaches in our air defenses would be ongoing today, as opposed to the fact that no such investigation has ever been demanded by govt or media watchdogs, not even ambitious political hopefuls who seize on every newsworthy issue when campaigning, not even those political hacks representing Israel, which has done all it could for twenty years to make American airlines adopt EL AL-type security measures including hand searching of every bag on every flight, and automatic emergency flare and chaff deployment measures on every passenger airplane (to defeat close range MANPADs and other weapons) and not even consumer groups (surviving family members notwithstanding) who are concerned for the safety of our country have offered any apparently (FOX, CNN or MSNBC) newsworthy concerns about the complete collapse and failure of multiple redundant systems resulting in thousands of death and billions in losses.

These facts alone would be enough to indict, convict and execute persons for crimes in any other case, country or circumstances, but within days our govt was asking, "Osama hoo?" and telling us that Saddam was the culprit, a charge which Bush himself has since publicly admitted was untrue.

And, we were told that the American people's faith in the Bush regime, the Pentagon, NORAD and all involved persons and agencies was unshakable, except in the minds of obviously distraught (and possibly unpatriotic and Bush hating, which are now synonymous) enclaves of kooks and profiteers who are simply looking for the big payoff, and because Bush talks to GOD any questions about the ever evolving official account is the mark of greedy traitors trying to profit from tragedy and hurt an unimpeachable character who wouldn't lie about anything, or have an agenda other than humble service (as our dictator if we really insist, because no sacrifice is too great and he'd overcome his humility somehow) and to hold back nothing in service to the greatest nation on earth. Not one American statistician or mathematician has dared to reveal the impossible odds of these events coinciding, as was the case with the assassination of JFK when only one Canadian think tank crunched the numbers. Now why is that?

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2007-06-15   19:24:10 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#75. To: HOUNDDAWG, YertleTurtle (#54)

get a load of that and i dare you to deem HOUNDDAWG a goofy truther.

christine  posted on  2007-06-17   15:33:39 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


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