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Title: Dear Bret
Source:
FU
URL Source: http://www.freedomunderground.org/o ... .php?v=3&t=3&l=30&aid=13715#30
Published: May 17, 2005
Author: me
Post Date: 2005-05-17 14:56:13 by Jethro Tull
Keywords: Dear, Bret
Views: 691
Comments: 59
Dear Bret;
Couldn’t help but noticing your rant - #114 . I wish I had additional time today to treat your outburst with a more substantial post, but I'm really rushed. At the end of my comment is a sampling of the exchanges between myself and Ross. They should help anyone who might be interested in understanding the truth behind FU's demise.
I stand by my words you quoted. I do despise Zionists. Also, feel free to toss in *all* organized religions. Lenin nailed it when he called organized religion ‘opiate for the masses.’ Zionism is especially virulent because its adherents are both racists and warmongers. They‘ve also captured our foreign policy, imo. See the PNAC documents (or Goldi’s comment about palianimals) for some insight into their politics and racist attitudes.
As an America first nationalist, I refuse to dance to the sound of their shofar. Feel free to remain ignorant to the obvious, that‘s your choice. In proportion to their population, the power they wield is disproportionate. I’m not the only one to notice, I assure you. How ironic that they refer to our republic as a democracy, but in the case of Israel, the very few lead the many around by the nose. Most Americans are silenced by the forces of political correctness, but as long as I’m allowed to speak out I’ll continue to expose what I see as a blood thirsty tribe of malcontents.
Back to FU.
It was Ross who set out to destroy FU, not Christine. For your edification (and our amusement) I searched FU and found Ross’s exact words to me; “It (FU) has been an echo chamber, thats what needs to be changed.”. When I followed up asking how he planned to change FU, your boy opused - causing you to launch a round of bannings. By losing all objectivity, you banned your most loyal friends, supporters and contributors. Actions have outcomes, and your actions caused FU to cease being a free speech site. In response, Christine told you she was going to begin another forum, to which you answered, “you thought as much.” Thus 4um was born, and with it came nearly every member of Freedom Underground. I understand more than 100 members left FU for here - doesn’t that tell you something about how you handled the situation?
I wish this could have been settled privately, but you did ping me to your post. It remains a pity that FU ended as it did, but it’s always better to know the true feelings of people around you. In your case, you had been a frequent guest among people who treated you with class and respect. Bret, you burnt lots of bridges on your altar of political correctness, but in the end we’ll all be in the same soup - events are beyond our control. At least when that time does come we’ll know those with loyalty and character and those who wouldn’t know those qualities if they tripped over them.
***
To: DownKaos, all I don't understand how I'm making a mess of this thread?
*****
Personally, I don't expect you to understand. At this stage in your life, you know everything, so a critical self examination is impossible. It's enough to say that you're acting like the 'owners kid'; you're peeing on the shoes of decent folks knowing you won’t be punished. Bret is in a tough spot, and you aren't helping matters. In short Ross, you're a brat who never allows facts to get in the way of your rock solid opinions. I suggest you grow up, or watch FU become an echo chamber.
27 Posted 2005-01-20 14:15:01 by Jethro Tull
("I will not ablidge you in disrupting FU ever again." - Louise/Murron/StellaMaris/Clare, etc.) [ Reply | To 20 | Edit ] IP [ 172.201.27.233 ]
To: Jethro Tull It has been an echo chamber, thats what needs to be changed.
But again, personal attacks when I have not said anything rude to anyone in this thread. 28 Posted 2005-01-20 14:17:20 by DownKaos
(Many of us believe that wrongs aren't wrong if it's done by nice people like ourselves. - Author Unknown - It is easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them. ~Alfred Adler ) [ Reply | To 27 ] IP [ 24.217.29.51 ]
To: DownKaos It has been an echo chamber, thats what needs to be changed.
***
Thanks for the insight. A few questions: when did you decide FU needed changing, and why? Also, how do you plan on implementing these changes?
29 Posted 2005-01-20 14:21:50 by Jethro Tull ("I will not ablidge you in disrupting FU ever again." - Louise/Murron/StellaMaris/Clare, etc.) [ Reply | To 28 | Edit ] IP [ 172.201.27.233 ]
To: Jethro Tull, All, christine, unamused
Anyway I'm done, I'll just go post elsewhere which is just fine to me. I thought this was a free speech forum but I guess I was wrong.
I'll continue to run this server and keep it secure because Bret love his site. I will do this even though it goes against my beliefs because I know I will just be supporting a site that had so much going for it but turned into another hate site.
I think you don't understand Bret but I will not speak for him like you all have tried and leave him to post his thoughts on the whole thing.
Peace
30 Posted 2005-01-20 14:24:01 by DownKaos
(Many of us believe that wrongs aren't wrong if it's done by nice people like ourselves. - Author Unknown - It is easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them. ~Alfred Adler )
********
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#20. To: Zipporah (#2)
I agree that it was Ross's attitude towards posters that got to me. He had
every right to speak up about religion, or any other topic, , though I question
why an avowed atheist/agnostic would want to get into the fray. I certainly
didn't ask for a banning, and was really upset when Bret went on his banning
tangent, only to rescind it later, and without apology.
telling me what to do again, huh, willywanker? three times you're out. bye.
Chrissie, as long as I've known you (3+ years), I've always found you to be a caring lady, who hungers for the truth. I've not found you 'bashing' jews, but wanting to get to the truth of zionism vs judaism, etc. I also know you were very distressed over what happened at FU...both as it relates to the malador incident, and with the big break when ross acted the ass, and bret went bonkers and said many things that were flat-out wrong and hurtful--to you and to others. I'm thankful you got 4um rolling. I don't want to post at a place where one never knows if a bullet is aimed at your head or back. And with the bozo feature, it is easy to walk away from assholes, rather than stir up the pot of crap with warring parties.
Good question.. made little sense really but as I said, I had nor do I have any objection to anyone's opinions or beliefs.. it was the attitude.. total disrespect for anyone and everyone that challenged or replied to him.. it was totally ridiculous and totally out of line.. again I'll repeat.. it was the attitude period.. and I said that to Bret repeatedly.. but he refused to hear it..
I musta missed a good one. I was wondering where everyone went. lmao
thanks, dee. i appreciate that.
telling me what to do again, huh, willywanker? three times you're out. bye. You should have let us toy with him a little bit first.
he was too cowardly to respond to my post to him from last night, i note, then sticks his nose into something that doesn't concern him--attacking me without any provocation on my part--most likely a clown. i chose to exercise my right to freedom of non-association.
I want this freaking sheep pic to replace that pretzel! Now! It is so much more telling, imo.
Isnt that a riot.. ?? Says it all..
Keep bringing that damn sheep until it replaces that horrid pretzel. Your servant. ;-)
No, put the sheep on the home page. We need a picture there anyway. The pretzel is becoming a tradition where it is. Here is another good anti-Bush logo:
I have got to shut it down lest Mrs.L boinks me in the head... Have a ball y'all.
Put a pretzel in the sheeple's mouth.
Good nite ..have a good tomorrow!
Reading through this thread--it all comes horrifically back to me--the recurring nightmares: Minding my own business, walking peacefully along when set upon and brutally and mercilessly attacked by a vicious penguin. Oh, God, how I now hate those critters.
Wacky, wacky days. Life on the net - never a dull person or moment.
You're making a mountain out of a mole hill. But you already knew that, didn't you, Jethro?
Immediately prior to Bret siccing his trained attack penguin on me, I asked who, specifically, had sought to have Downkaos banned--then next thing I know, I was being slapped upside the head. The question was never answered. I never (to my recollection) had any cross word or hassles with Ross/Downkaos. I certainly do well remember piping into the hassle between Malador and America First. Malador was full of crap on that deal. This whole episode, IMHO, comes basically down to this: either one supports the American-Israeli relationship or one doesn't. I don't and I'm here--not there.
Fred. I responded to Bret's post to me. So I think you have it ass backwards.
you have got to be kidding me. you have no understanding of what happened and jethro didn't start it, fred. he responded.
But you already knew that, didn't you, Jethro? This is an interesting reply.. considering the indignation over Todd and how wronged he was on LP.. I dont recall Goldi treating Todd in any manner whatsoever that could compare.. but then again when it's you or your friends it's all relative..
Well, no, not really Fred. What Bret did was stupid--but as I referred to above: it was ideologically driven. I was never mean or rude to anyone. Tell you what. I'll post an example of what got me penguined slapped at FU.
I didn't say that Jethro started anything. Please don't put words in my mouth. Thank you very much. I said what I said.
That's how it goes in Kentucky...I know you can relate to that.
What you said makes no sense considering Bret tossed the anti-Semite stone
through my window. He can take that tired old BS and peddle it to someone else.
Sorry, no sale.
You take the internet and comments WAY too seriously. BTW, what did you ever do with all that spam you hoarded for Y2K phenomena?
Do you hate Jews, Jethro? Would you murder a zionist if he stepped on your sidewalk?
(Digressing somewhat) I was reading that FU thread and came across a recurrent comment from the esteemed palo verde concerning her pet peeve de jure/ cause celeb: Sibel Edmonds. I reckon I shall go to my grave confounded on how an individual could be so riled up about Sibel Edmonds and, yet, remain such a staunch supporter of Bush, et. al. One of life's great mysteries. Oy.
Who knows.. taking things to the logic conclusion must be difficult.. I wonder who might be in charge of muzzling Sibel Edmonds? Clinton? :P
Here, Fred: This is why posters such as Jethro Tull and I are no longer at FU: Well, since you asked, here are some prior comments that I have made (and perhaps we can go from here without the anti-semite & Stomfront labels) About 5 or 6 years ago, I really didn't care about Israel; knew little about their actions and the amount of American taxpayer cash going to and incredible amount of influence that little country has in Washington, DC. Knew little and didn't care about the actions and extent of involvement of liberal Jews and Zionists stateside, either. (And, my support of the Zionist hating Neturei Karta Jews, destroys the ability of the Zionists to play the Nazi/Jew Hater card on me although some of them try any way. It must be terribly frustrating for them.) Then I started paying attention. I freely and openly admit that my hate of Israel, liberal Jews, and Zionists.. And, I do not trust the American federal government which has turned into a Ponzi scheme built on a house of debt. The attack on the constitutional, conservative, and Christian America and the deviation of the American federal government from those principles and values has been covert over the last 50 years. Anyway and back to the point, there is another mission; another goal going on besides those listed above. And, that goes back to the blueprint for the Iraq War issued by the Zionist PNAC in 1997. Think of this: a major terrorist attack on American soil; a crime of horrific proportions--and where does the American military end up. Iraq. I am convinced that the War on Iraq is not about terrorism on America and Americans. And, it is beyond laughable that Iraq posed any threat to America and Americans. I am firmly CONVINCED that agents within Israel-American government KNEW damn well 09/11 was going down and didn't stop it. America is in Iraq taking out Israel's problem child, Saddam Hussein, and securing Iraqi oil for Israel and the American big business elite. And, this is costing US a hell of a lot of money we do not have. Again, this country's this treasury is being sapped for reasons OTHER than the true interests of America and Americans. "President" Bush is doing this; PNAC is doing this. It DAMN sure hasn't been radical Palestinian terrorists funding, promoting and supporting some of the most socially destructive and disruptive organizations/entities anti-thetical to American Constitutional, conservative and Christian ethics and principles such as the ADL, ACLU, NAACP, SPLC, Hollywood, the federal media and so forth and so on during the last 50 years-- it is and has been Liberal Jews and Zionists. Their actions and activities HAVE NOT been a positive for America or American society. Israel is a strategic threrat to America because: The American federal government's marriage to and blind support of Israel has made America and Americans a target of the enemies of Israel. America should have sided with the oil reserves back in 1947. Instead, we sided with that worthless pile of sand which is Israel. This regional territorial conflict between the Palestinians and Israel threatens the entire region with violence and instability. The United States, through powerful pro-Israel influences with the American federal government, has been sucked into this quagmire. Israel maintains a nuclear stockpile subject to NO treaties or control. Israel is costing the US treasury BILLIONS and BILLIONS of dollars America doesn't have. Israel is selling American military technology that is given to them (what they don't steal) courtesy of the American taxpayer. Reiterating: 1)Israel dis-proportionately receives more U.S. aid than any other nation or amount of people on earth; 2) Zionists and Liberal Jews have (from MY point of view) a detrimental effect on MY conservative, Constitutional, Christian view of American society (ADL; NAACP; ACLU; SPLC); 3) have too much influence and power over and in Washington, DC (AIPAC) and the American news and entertainment industries as well; 4) the American-Israeli relationship is costing the U.S. too much in terms of money and international relations (when Muslim fanatics see the U.S. flag they think Israel and, really, they are not wrong); 5) they contributed more than is generally known towards world tragedies which also hurt their own: the Russian Revolution, WWI, and WWII; 6) the idea of the U.N. creating a country for the specific benefit of a particular group of people on land primarily inhabited by other people does not sit well with me; 7) Israel killed 34 American sailors and claimed they thought for three hours it was an Egyptian tugboat or something -- our government went along with this; 8) the Israelis HAVE been and are now treating the Palestinians like dog crap and using American taxpayer dollars doing it; 9) the Israelis have been selling top American military technology to China; 10) Israelis, liberal Jews and Zionists are arrogant and self serving as are supporters thereof. 133 Posted 2004-08-09 06:59:31 by wbales 1) What, to you, is a Zionist? Zionist are adherents of Zionism: devotion to and 100% support of a Supremacist Jewish/Zionist nation which somehow the United States has been conned into funding in apparent perpetuity. Zionism is a political movement which hides behind the skirt of Judaism when its convenient. AKA Israel Firsters 2) Are Zionists and Liberal Jews, both of which you hate, the same? Hate is probably not the right word (close but not quite): distrust, despise, disgust. I’d say that most liberal Jews are Zionists but I’m not sure--I haven’t taken a poll or anything like that. It seems that most Jews are supportive of the Jewish state. I was a member of Jews for the Protection of Firearm Ownership and I’m sure some of them were/are Zionists--pro 2nd amendment can‘t be all that bad. When American Jews place Israel/Zionism ahead of American nationalism, that concerns me greatly. 3) What would cause you to stop hating Israel? Stop sapping the American taxpayer; elimination of specialty laws in the US Code pertaining to Israel; start treating the Palestinians like humans; sign on to the nuclear proliferation treaties; when I stop seeing the word “Israel” come floating across the bottom of the scrolling US news outlets every ten minutes; get rid of the racist right of return law; provide equal rights for all its citizens; stop meddling in American politics and affairs 4) You've said you don't hate all Jews, using Neturei Karta Jews as an example of those you do like. However, they are a small minority, much like snake handlers are a small minority of Christians. Would it be accurate to say that you hate most Jews? Not individually; the leadership and spokesmen--Israel, ADL, JDL, and so forth- -close to it. (Why are you comparing NK Jews to snake handlers?) 5) Who do you dislike more: Zionists who use America, or American politicians who let themselves be used? Both equally. 6) If you just met me, and I said I was Jewish, would you have suspicions against me? No, I wouldn’t care until and unless I ascertained your political stance: Liberal, Democrat, Zionist--then I would be suspicious and irked. 7) You say you are convinced Israel knew about 9/11 in advance. Can you point me in the correct direction that I might research this for myself? Search Liberty Post for articles concerning Israeli nationals caught filming and “celebrating” the WTC collapse from across the harbor in New Jersey. There are also reposts of an Israeli company sending out warnings about 09/11. Check out who was running Logan airport security on 09/11. Further, read the article posted by Uncle Bill on Liberty Post concerning Bush having prior knowledge of 09/11. 8) You say that Jews contributed to tragedies that hurt them. Why would they do this? In furtherance of the Zionist cause. 9) Does anti-Semitism exist? If so, is it deserved? Yes. Most of it, yes, deserved and earned. But see The End of Racism by D’Nesh D’Sousa concerning what is and what is not racism (or in this case, anti- Semitism). Racists and anti-semites are merely REACTING to behavior and conduct they see exhibited by a sufficient number of an identifiable group. True racists and anti-semites who truly HATE anther group (let’s say black or Jews) merely and only because of who or what they are, are exceedingly rare and qualify, IMO, as lunatics. 10) And finally, you say: Zionists and Liberal Jews have (from MY point of view) a detrimental effect on MY conservative, Constitutional, Christian view of American society (ADL; NAACP; ACLU; SPLC) How would you remedy this situation? Our society has been going in a downward ethical, moral, spiritual spiral for 50 years now. It will be terribly difficult to reverse this trend. A different mindset must take control of defining what is and what is not politically correct and then control the media to get this message out. Here is what has been happening over the last 50 years: a federal government which is wildly exceeding original constitutional scope and authority; skyrocketing divorce and illegitimacy rates; outrageous rates of violent crime; "entertainment" which glorifies violence and promiscuity; liberal control of America's educational institutions; normalization of homosexuality and other perversions; a $7 Trillion (at least) federal debt; an attack on the traditional family; an attack on traditional American Christian values and mores and Christian institutions; a "politically correct" madness movement; an insane American policy of unfettered immigration; multicultural madness; an alphabet soup of omnipotent federal agencies; highly questionable foreign policy decisions made by Washington, DC; the insidious erosion of personal liberty and freedoms in America; the ABC/NBC/CBS/CNN/MSNBC/FOX network parroting the big federal government line; the de facto and unconstitutional repeal of the 10th Amendment; the creation of a class of people dependent upon the federal government; an erosion of the idea of personal and individual responsibility; the insane policy Prohibition II; etc… For the last 50 years, Liberal (hear that -- LIBERAL!) Jews (which, unfortunately, includes most American Jews), have been supporting and promoting some of the most socially destructive and disruptive organizations/entities in America--anti-thetical and adverse to American conservative, Constitutional and Christian ethics, mores and principles. ADL, ACLU, NAACP, SPLC, Hollywood, the federal media, educational institutions, and so forth and so on. Zionists claim that as there is of lack of evidence of total, absolute, overt Zionist control of America, the idea of an inappropriate and inordinate amount of Zionist control/involvement with/over American foreign and domestic policy and the American news and entertainment industries and financial institutions cannot be sustained--an absurd and preposterous piece of illogic. And wrong. If Zionists attempted to exercise flagrant, total, absolute, overt control of America, they would face immediate personal and physical safety issues from the American populace. It would be Germany, again. To the extent that it supported or acquiesced to the Zionists, the American federal government would also have a severe problem. But no, after Russia, Germany was a yet another learning experience. Have the Zionists refined getting the maximum of out a host without having the host turn on them or having the host explode or implode? Time shall tell. Twenty-five years ago, a United States Senator said basically the same thing that the Israeli Prime Minister said two years ago: Israel controls America. I do not understand how anyone can so cavalierly dismiss those two statements (needless to say any and all other indicators that the American-Israeli relationship is a one way affair). America gives about $700 a year to every man, woman and child in Israel. What a sweetheart deal. Russian Jews were really irked at the Czar's May Laws enacted during very late 1800s and they reacted by financing and orchestrating the Russian Revolution. Of course, that resulted in a holocaust of 20 million or Christians in the Russian White Army. No ever talks about that holocaust. Somehow it has been erased from the public eye. But, then again, it really did not involve America. And damn if about the same thing didn't happen in 1930s Germany! Faced with hostility towards Jews by the Hitler government, the International Jewish Congress declared Economic War (boycotts and so forth meant to starve the Germany people into overthrowing Hitler). Well, with a major lunatic like Hitler that did not work out so well. Now fast forward to today. Like it or not, more and more rational, well informed Americans are coming to despise Israel, Zionists and, even, conservative American Jews and are being vocal about it. Why it is America has become and, really, from day one, the cash cow for Israel is beyond me. There is no rationalization---no justification--for America to be supporting this little country, Israel, out of all the countries on earth but it can be easily and only explained in that Zionists exert an inappropriate and inordinate amount of influence over American foreign and domestic policy and the American news and entertainment industries as well. What benefits are realized by America from the American-Israeli relationship? I cannot think of any. Moreover, the American-Israeli relationship is a detriment to America in actual dollar costs and an international public relations standpoint. When anyone raises these concerns, Zionists counter with the usual character assassination when raising these concerns is doing nothing more than repeating what a U.S. Senator AND the Prime Minister of Israel publicly state. Why does there seem to be a universal animosity towards Jews? Well, their only defense is that it is an irrational hatred. But that defies human nature. A rational human does not hold irrational hatred towards any group just because of who they are. No, rather, it is a reaction to behaviors and conduct exhibited by the group which leads to animosity and so called "hatred". For Zionists, criticism of Zionists MUST be challenged as irrational hate. This a time tested and generally successful tactic for them. Ergo, “anti-Semitism”. Also, a comment on the USS Liberty. The attack remains important and current for three reasons: 1) If it feels it necessary, Israel will not hesitate to kill Americans; 2) when it comes down between Israel and American citizens, the American federal government will side with Israel; and, 3) the responses/comments of the American Israel Firsters expose just how much they are truly Israel First/Zionists. Any suggestion that the USS Liberty attack was a mistake is simply incredible. Please visit the USS Liberty website for a plethora of info. Prefacing, the single bullet theory is bogus beyond belief. There was a conspiracy to kill JFK and LBJ was, if not in the actual killing, certainly in on the cover-up of same. Israel may have even been involved. All that being said, I believe that is connected with LBJ pulling back the fighter cover for the USS Liberty and his subsequent covering for Israel in the Liberty incident- -a deal was made where Israel wouldn’t rat out LBJ and LBJ let them slide on the USS Liberty. I have no doubt that had the Liberty gone to the bottom with all hands, the “official” story would still be that Egypt did it. I make these reading suggestions for you. The Culture of Critique, Kevin MacDonald My Awakening (pp.217-450), David Duke The International Jew, Henry Ford, Sr. The Protocols of Zion, (Russian Trans.) Victor E. Marsden They Dare to Speak Out, Paul Findley (when you read this think about the latest example: Jim Moran, D-VA). Deliberate Deceptions, Paul Findley I hope this helps start to explain/clarify my position on Israel, liberal Jews and Zionists. PS: I’m not fond of liberals 203 Posted 2004-08-10 21:51:08 by wbales More concerning the Protocols of Zion (LPZ) and a document mentioned much less frequently in this context. Most often, the Protocols are first mentioned by someone whose discourse intent is: “AHA! You sound like you are quoting from the LPZ--you Jew hating, Hitler wannabe” which is apparently designed to intimidate and shut down a discussion of the merits and substance of the issue. A lot of focus is spent on whether the LPZ are forgeries and/or fakes which is totally besides the point--approaching irrelevant. No, what matters is what is in the LPZ--the words, statements thereof and their relation to real world events. One rarely sees a true, civil and intellectual discussion on that. And if one reads the LPZ in the context of transpired world events and trends, it does seem to transcend co-incidental. You can do research on the LPZ by googling same and reading the book I referenced in the post above. We could go for days on that particular subject. Anyway, there is another document I wish to focus on here: the 45 Communist goals. These was read into the Congressional record back in 1963 and can be found here: http://www.stansolomon.com/communist_goals.htm Go there now and read this. Now that you have read this, how many of these do you see as having been realized? How many do you see happening? Amazing, is it not? Well, I, a rational and reasonable American, am rather shocked. Now here is my question/observation: It is clear that a great majority of these goals have been and/or are now being seen in America. Imagine that. In America of all places. So, how did this happen? Well, certainly one could say that these “goals” merely coincide with a natural, happenstance progression (or, regression, depending on how you look at it). Sorry, I don’t buy that. No, in my way of looking at it, these “goals” have been actively promoted and pushed in my country. The question is this. These are ostensibly “communist” goals. But think about it--think about the Communist Party USA. Do/did they have the clout, power, capital, members, resources, organization, and funding to accomplish these goals right under the nose of all America and Americans. No. Hell, no. Well, just who did have the clout, power, capital, members, resources, organization, and funding to accomplish these goals? And how did they do it? How did it happen? By what mechanisms, actions and programs did these “goals” see fruition? Think about Hollywood, the television and its influence on American society, the ADL, the ACLU and its lawsuits, SPLC, the NAACP, the inordinate amount of influence on the American government, the federal media and American society. What do think about this observation? 204 Posted 2004-08-10 22:27:59 by wbales As you are probably aware from prior forums, I am loathe to engage in religious discussions as they resolve little and prove less. Though it always raises interesting questions and issues, I do not want to challenge any one particular individual’s faith or raise my own as a point/counter-point and despite and occasional foray into that realm, I prefer to focus on geo- political aspects of world events (in which, unfortunately, religion is replied sometimes upon as, in part or whole, a rationalization or justification therefore). Now moving on, I raise this. Earlier, a certain poster delivered a screed replete with Nazi-this and Nazi-that references. This poster seemed, to me at least, to be in a defensive posture towards Israel and seems to possess vehement and very adverse opinions towards those who may be “white separatist” or “white nationalists” (AKA stereotypical Aryan, Nazi, skinhead, tatooed types). The lunatic Hitler was seeking an elitist, supremacist, racially pure nation and, of course, he went on a world class land grab in the effort. But Hitler failed. However and out of WWII, Israel got what Hitler was seeking: an elitist, supremacist, racially pure nation. The one thing that perfectly illustrates this is Israel’s ethnic and racially specific Right of Return--discrimination in its most ugliest form--government sanctioned. Further, I have been to Europe on four occasions in the last three years. I know Americans are getting a sterilized account of just how bad the IDF is treating Palestinians within their control. It is apartheid. It is ethnic cleaning. Think about just what the level of hatred, the level of desperation, the abject lack of hope must be that would compel a human being to commit suicide in what he/she thinks is an act of defiance or striking out at perceived oppressors of their people. And, to top this all off, the American taxpayer is footing the entire bill. We are paying for lock, stock and barrel the IDF helicopter gunship, tanks and ammunition. This is not good. My main point is this: for someone who tends to support Israel to call someone who doesn’t a “Nazi” and given Israel’s conduct and behavior is the pinnacle of hypocrisy.
Can't argue with that one bit.
There is no mystery there for me. Palo strikes me as a feminist. She gives Sibel credit because she is a woman supposedly fighting the powers that be. While she gives Bush credit because she sees him as a cute little devil and couldn't possibly imagine someone with the same intelligent level as her being anything but a good overall person. Heck, she might even be right since Bush is obviously only a puppet President anyway.
Heh-heh...I know what you mean. Ever since I registered I've been looking for a good opportunity to post that. I think the pretzel is great but I didn't even notice it at first. When I did,it jumped right out at me and I laughed for several minutes. I like the pretzel a lot and I hope it stays.
Now, Fred, I realize its a longer than usual post, so please do take your times perusing my post #51 above. ;>)
Remember what it was called in the old days of the MSNBC boards? Bait. Some people just have to keep shit stirred up. Some had better bait than others.
yep.. they lived for conflict and drama.
One snippet out of a most outstanding post.
Yes, I have a better understanding of your point of view now. Thanks for sharing and answering my inquiry.
#21. To: willyone (#18)
Get some self respect.
#22. To: christine (#8)
#23. To: rowdee (#20)
#24. To: christine (#21)
#25. To: rowdee (#22)
#26. To: christine (#21)
Get some self respect.
#27. To: crack monkey (#26)
#28. To: robin (#17)
#29. To: lodwick, robin (#28)
#30. To: robin (#17)
#31. To: lodwick (#28)
#32. To: Zipporah (#29)
#33. To: crack monkey (#31)
#34. To: lodwick (#32)
#35. To: Jethro Tull (#0)
#36. To: wbales (#35)
#37. To: Jethro Tull (#36)
#38. To: christine, robin, Diana (#35)
#39. To: lodwick (#33)
#40. To: Fred Mertz (#37)
#41. To: Fred Mertz (#37)
#42. To: Fred Mertz (#37)
You're making a mountain out of a mole hill.
#43. To: Fred Mertz (#37)
You're making a mountain out of a mole hill.
#44. To: christine (#41)
you have no understanding of what happened and jethro didn't start it, fred.
#45. To: Zipporah (#42)
but then again when it's you or your friends it's all relative..
#46. To: Fred Mertz (#44)
#47. To: Jethro Tull (#0)
#48. To: Jethro Tull (#46)
#49. To: Zipporah (#42)
#50. To: wbales (#49)
#51. To: Fred Mertz (#48)
#52. To: lodwick (#3)
dial-up service, which is well known to make the user crazy.
#53. To: wbales (#49)
I reckon I shall go to my grave confounded on how an individual could be so riled up about Sibel Edmonds and, yet, remain such a staunch supporter of Bush, et. al. One of life's great mysteries. Oy.
#54. To: robin, all (#17)
Grumble, I've been waiting all day for a reason to re-post this great .jpg.
#55. To: Fred Mertz (#48)
#56. To: Zipporah (#15)
This makes no sense to me really..
#57. To: justlurking (#56)
Remember what it was called in the old days of the MSNBC boards? Bait. Some people just have to keep shit stirred up. Some had better bait than others.
#58. To: wbales (#51)
America should have sided with the oil reserves back in 1947. Instead, we sided with that worthless pile of sand which is Israel.
#59. To: wbales (#51)
I hope this helps start to explain/clarify my position on Israel, liberal Jews and Zionists.
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