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Title: Muslim Workers at Nebraska Meatpacking Plant Complain of Religious Harassment
Source: FOXNews.com
URL Source: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,290324,00.html
Published: Jul 22, 2007
Author: staff
Post Date: 2007-07-22 20:19:36 by JCHarris
Keywords: None
Views: 941
Comments: 84

Muslim Workers at Nebraska Meatpacking Plant Complain of Religious Harassment

Sunday , July 22, 2007

OMAHA, Neb. — Supervisors at a meatpacking plant have fired or harassed dozens of Somali Muslim employees for trying to pray at sunset, violating civil rights laws, the workers and their advocates say.

The five- to 10-minute prayer, known as the maghrib, must be done within a 45-minute window around sunset, according to Muslim rules. The workers at the Swift & Co. plant in Grand Island say they quit, were fired or were verbally and physically harassed over the issue.

The Council on American-Islamic Relations has drafted a complaint to be filed with the federal Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. The petition compiles testimony from at least 44 workers who had planned to sign the complaint during a meeting Sunday. The signing was changed to a later date because of a logistical problem.

Jama Mohamed, 28, said he was fired in June for leaving a production line to pray. Supervisors would not allow him a break, he said.

"Some of them took the (prayer) mat from me; they started shouting, they started telling me to stop it, and one of them grabbed me by the collar of my shirt," Mohamed said through an interpreter.

"I was crying at the time this was happening to me, and when I finished I told them while they were doing that I was in the middle of a prayer."

Mohamed said he was then called to an office, where a supervisor fired him.

Mohamed Rage, chairman of the Omaha Somali-American Community Organization, said Swift had fired at least two dozen workers for praying since May.

Donald Selzer, an attorney for Greeley, Colo.-based Swift, said only three Somali workers were fired for reasons relating to the issue, and that it was for walking off the line without permission, not for praying.

Unscheduled breaks can force unplanned shutdowns of lines, Selzer said.

"That is a significant number of employees, and there is not much of a way to accommodate that consistent with keeping the production online," he said.

The complaint reprises issues that boiled over in May, when 120 Somali workers abruptly quit for similar reasons. About 70 returned a week later, but union officials worried the issue would resurface through the late spring as sunset came later in the evening shift.

"For three days it was all good and we were praying; there was no hassle, no interference, nothing at all," said Ali Schire, 30, who said he returned to the plant but was later fired for trying to pray.

"All of a sudden after three days it just all got loose, and they were suspending people, they were firing people," Schire said through an interpreter. "Some of the people even had to give up praying at all for fear of being fired."

Said Selzer: "These people are absolutely entitled to pray, and they should not be interfered with for doing so. But on the other hand, the only situations that I've been made aware of are people that walk off the job without permission, and that's a different kind of an issue."

Dan Hoppes, president of Local 22 of the United Food and Commercial Workers Union, said he had not heard of many Somali workers being fired or harassed since May. Prayer breaks are not in the contract, he said, but he hopes to revisit the issue in negotiations in 2010.

Swift rejected a suggestion by the Council on American-Islamic Relations to allow the Somalis who work evenings to leave in smaller shifts to avoid disrupting lines, said Rima Kapitan, an attorney with the group.

The company suggested phasing evening workers to shifts earlier in the day that did not interrupt prayer times, Selzer and Hoppes said.

"We're perfectly happy to try to pursue that angle so that we don't have this conflict," Selzer said. "But given the people who are on the second shift — many of whom prefer to be there — this sort of presents the operational realities."

Mohamed said it is important for Muslims to pray within scheduled times and not to postpone prayers or say them early.

"I would never forgive myself and God would not forgive me if I do not pray on time because I want to earn some money," he said.

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#21. To: JCHarris (#16)

Oh yeah, you got me. I'm part of the vast extensive "Destroy the west" plot. The omni present enemy secretly out to "destroy America" has been a mainstay of the paranoid DC worshipping Reichwing in this country since the Civil War.

You are quite pathetic. As to the particulars of this story, I don't care. Omaha Nebraska is 1500 miles away from me and I don't know a soul involved in the story. I do know Fox News likes to stoke up these stories to stir reactions exactly like yours- stupid, angry, hysterical, and fearful.

Fits right into the paradigm they are attempting to create with this story- and group think they are trying to cultivate. Pavlov rings the bell and JCHarris rolls over.

The Daily Burkeman1

Burkeman1  posted on  2007-07-23   10:55:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Burkeman1 (#21)

- stupid, angry, hysterical, and fearful.

Burka

You fit right in.

Cynicom  posted on  2007-07-23   10:58:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Burkeman1 (#21)

I do know Fox News likes to stoke up these stories to stir reactions exactly like yours- stupid, angry, hysterical, and fearful.

Faux Snooze -- about as dubious as World Nut Daily and Sorcha Faal.

Vitamin Z  posted on  2007-07-23   11:10:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Vitamin Z (#23)

Oh my God! Some moooslims at a meat packing plant have a dispute with their employer regarding their prayer times while at work! I live 1200 miles away and this doesn't involve me at all- but I will get worked up and angry and outraged anyway- because I am to lazy to actually care about something that really effects me and that I could change locally. So let me impotently rage against this "issue" which doesn't effect me in the slightest, with other "Americans" whom I have no other connection to other than federal tax forms and for whom I could generally care less about, on the internet and generally denounce immigrants everywhere for their audacity to even speak about anything.

The Daily Burkeman1

Burkeman1  posted on  2007-07-23   11:20:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: HOUNDDAWG (#9)

If they had tried that during their probationary periods before they were admitted to the union they'd have been fired and they'd have no recourse.

So, they timed the moments of their "persecution", which is to say they didn't observe that "prayer window" when they knew they could be fired with no reasons even being required. So, if they didn't ask for and receive accommodation prior to commencement of employment they cannot demand it after slipping into the union.

And, I bet they didn't punch out, either. Their "right to pray" means "right to be paid to pray". And, they have to wash before returning to work. Their 10 minute prayer break is probably 30 minutes.

This needs to translate to:

The right to be unemployed, and

The right to starve.

BlueEyedGirl  posted on  2007-07-23   11:34:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Ferret Mike (#4)

Christians who's sect demands they go to church on Sunday, or Orthodox Jews who observe the Sabbath are respected and not sanctioned if their bosses would prefer they work those days, so there is precedent to respect these people's religion too.

People get days off..... People to whom the Sabbath is important will address this issue upon hiring, or expect to be fired.

BlueEyedGirl  posted on  2007-07-23   11:37:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: BlueEyedGirl (#25)

I don't care if this employer grants them prayer break times or not. What bothers me is how this is called a "right" and how the mooslims seek government to provide relief.

But in this, CAIR is absolutley no different from any other group based upon every identification possible - from the sexual appetites of certain people who claim to be a "Group" to obese pigs who also now claim to be a "Group"- everyone seeks government relief for their various imaginary issues and to protect their "rights" which are generally just petty and venal demands.

In this regard then- CAIR is being quintessentially "American". Rather than forging cultural bonds on the human level- one to one- man to man- working out arraingements between each other on a social level- CAIR takes every petty demand, complaint, sleight, and grievance to the gubmint- usually the federal government. And there is nothing more "American" than that. It is what this country has become- a batch of rootless atoms who can't interact with each other in a civil society without every facet being watched over and laid claim to by government.

The Daily Burkeman1

Burkeman1  posted on  2007-07-23   11:49:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: Burkeman1 (#21)

again Burkie....bite me.

JCHarris  posted on  2007-07-23   13:07:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: BlueEyedGirl (#25)

They have a right to reasonable accoumidation with their prayer times, and Muslim prayers are generally known to be time specific. Therefore, there is no prior notification they needed to do before they were employed.

Whet there definately is in this country is too much anti-Muslim bigotry, and not only do the extremists Muslims need to reach accomidation with others not of their faith, the same holds true to anti-Muslim 'jihadists.' This cuts both ways.

Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2007-07-23   15:29:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: HOUNDDAWG (#10)

"My religion requires me to beat my wives in rotation three times a day, and the company better not try to use some flimsy excuse like boycotts by women to infringe on my 1st amendment rights!"

They are not victimizing others by wanting to pray at their normal times like someone who physically attacks someone else.

I have seen the city bus company in Portland, Oregon have to change their dress code to allow women drivers of a very orthodox Christian sect wear skirts or dresses and not slacks, Sihks are generally allowed their heargear but not their ceremonial daggers which fall under regulations about having weapons at work, and I have asked for and gotten Pagan holidays -- like the Winter Solstice -- off before, and see nothing wrong with respecting employees enough to make minor adjustments to accomidate their religious needs and beliefs.

Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2007-07-23   15:39:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Ferret Mike (#29) (Edited)

The optimal solution to this problem is not to have unassimilated people with alien customs living among us to begin with. If people want to come here and continue to live and think as if they're still in Somalia or Pakistan, the logical thing to do is to encourage them to go back rather than trying to "accomodate" them.

Get US troops out of the Arab/Muslim world and Arab/Muslim immigrants out of the US and Europe. What part of that is so difficult for people?

Rupert_Pupkin  posted on  2007-07-23   16:29:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Rupert_Pupkin (#31)

I see nothing wrong with Muslims in this country, or accomidating their needs for prayer. All of this falls under the aupices of both sides dialoging to reach accomidaton, out in the end I see nothing involving them praying that is incombatable with them working for this company to the benefit of both parties.

Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2007-07-23   16:32:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Ferret Mike (#29)

They have a right to reasonable accoumidation with their prayer times, and Muslim prayers are generally known to be time specific. Therefore, there is no prior notification they needed to do before they were employed.

Whet there definately is in this country is too much anti-Muslim bigotry,

Oh, BS. I want breaks like that, and I want to be paid for it.

BlueEyedGirl  posted on  2007-07-23   17:53:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: Ferret Mike (#30)

and see nothing wrong with respecting employees enough to make minor adjustments to accomidate their religious needs and beliefs.

Emphasis on minor.

BlueEyedGirl  posted on  2007-07-23   17:55:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: Ferret Mike (#29)

They have a right to reasonable accoumidation with their prayer times, and Muslim prayers are generally known to be time specific. Therefore, there is no prior notification they needed to do before they were employed.

You're forgetting that the workers *asked* to work that particular shift and did not inform their employer ahead of time that they needed an accomodation.

Since other shifts are available that do not conflict with their prayers, this lawsuit will go into the trash since the people complaining refuse to accept a reasonable accomodation.

Here is the law in particular, from Title 7 of the Civil Rights code:

(j) The term "religion" includes all aspects of religious observance and practice, as well as belief, unless an employer demonstrates that he is unable to reasonably accommodate to an employee's or prospective employee's religious observance or practice without undue hardship on the conduct of the employer's business.

Walking away from an assembly line would fall under "hardship" since the line would have to stop in order to accomodate this request. Also, since other shifts are available that meet the accomodation, this lawsuit will fall on its face.

America is not at war. The military is at war. America is at the mall and the Congress is out to lunch.

mirage  posted on  2007-07-23   17:57:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: BlueEyedGirl (#33)

"Oh, BS. I want breaks like that, and I want to be paid for it."

That thay were paid during this time is a wild guess I don't buy.

Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2007-07-23   18:03:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: BlueEyedGirl (#34)

"Emphasis on minor."

Emphasis on you have nothing to say here. Whine and snip to someone who cares. I don't.

Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2007-07-23   18:04:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: Rupert_Pupkin (#31)

The optimal solution to this problem is not to have unassimilated people with alien customs living among us to begin with.

Who is "us"? I don't know what "customs" the people who live next to me practice.

If people want to come here and continue to live and think as if they're still in Somalia or Pakistan, the logical thing to do is to encourage them to go back rather than trying to "accomodate" them.

No, the logical thing to do is mind your own business and get a life. What is a Somali suppossed to do to become "American"? Run up credit card debt, buy shit they don't need, and gain 50 pounds of blubber? I haven't had to "accomodate" anyone and I don't care if they choose to practive their own peculiar customs either. No skin off my nose- not my concern.

Now I know there are 'mercans who get all in a tizzy if they are asked to "press one" on an automated help line- but frankly- they need to get an effing life. If your own "customs" and beliefs are so pathetically weak that you are threatened by the robust and unashamed practice of "alien" customs by a small number of immigrants- if you are that insecure- then you are the problem- not the dirty mooslims.

Ideally, these Mooslem workers would have worked out an arraingement with their boss a long time ago (or not and just got new jobs). But since everyone in this country can literally make a federal case out of anything (and is encouraged by what passes for a "culture" in this country to do so) these mooslems are doing nothing more than what they have been encouraged to do since they got here- take everything as a insult- dig your heels in and don't dare forge bonds with anyone else- because you don't have too - the federal Gubmint government will protect even your feelings.

The Daily Burkeman1

Burkeman1  posted on  2007-07-23   18:07:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Ferret Mike (#32)

I see nothing wrong with Muslims in this country, or accomidating their needs for prayer.

This is BULLSHIT and the usual subversive rant from you !

NO ONE else gets to stop and pray and stick their asses up in the air on mats for allah or wobum gu gug or any other deity...

YOU LOVE the notion of BALKANIZATION AND DEFEAT of all things American...

IMO

You would be the first to join the STASI ! and LOVE every minute mimicking Felix Dzherinsky!!

Go back and resume your tree-sitting stunts....maybe you can collect some more freeeeeee MONEY so you can continue to sit on your ass and continue your subversion instead of doing an honest days work.

JCHarris  posted on  2007-07-23   18:07:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: Burkeman1 (#38)

Are you bed-ridden?

or just a callous scrooge curmudgeon?

I am GLAD you are NOT mu neighbor !

JCHarris  posted on  2007-07-23   18:08:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: mirage (#35)

"Walking away from an assembly line would fall under "hardship" since the line would have to stop in order to accomodate this request. Also, since other shifts are available that meet the accomodation, this lawsuit will fall on its face."

Which is precisely why I point out this is an issue that requires all parties to dialog. I have no doubt that if all parties sat down and worked out the possible options, that accomidation could be made that would satisfy everyone concerned here.

Seldom if ever do all issues involving some religions come up until there is a job conflict involving it of some kind, so I don't buy the argument that there should have been prior mention of prayer time before these folks were hired.

Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2007-07-23   18:09:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: Ferret Mike (#37)

Whine and snip to someone who cares. I don't.

That's just it ferret...

you have never cared about anything but your dope smoking grunge free love tree sitting lifestyle....

and finagled to get a lifetime of free money like all your freeloading grunge friends...

you have sat on YOUR ass and bitched and whined and never done a damned thing for anyone but yourself...

YOU are what started the decline of America ! and YOU are what is precipitating the accelerating slide !

JCHarris  posted on  2007-07-23   18:11:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: Ferret Mike (#41)

Seldom if ever do all issues involving some religions come up until there is a job conflict involving it of some kind, so I don't buy the argument that there should have been prior mention of prayer time before these folks were hired.

Here is why the prior mention of prayer time becomes an issue.

Do you believe in Racial Profiling?

If not, then how can anyone reasonably expect someone to be Muslim, of a particular sect of Muslims, and know precisely, up-front, what their requirements are?

One of the big issues I have with these faux-civil-rights agitators is that they deliberately create issues so they can launch a lawsuit. A second issue I have with faux-religious-civil-rights agitators is that they seem to want to be persecuted for some reason I cannot fathom.

There is a responsibility on the part of someone who needs an accommodation to disclose this ahead of time. Typically, on a line job, there is a sheet handed out which details the responsibilities and in the hiring process there is another sheet which asks for details of problems or issues.

All of this MUST be signed off on by the employee along with other paperwork stating that they understand what the deal is and that they have either requested an accommodation or waived their right to an accommodation.

This paperwork, if it exists (I've never seen a job in recent years that did not have it - I've given it to many people myself) is proof positive that this is a bogus accusation. If it is shown to be a bogus accusation, I fervently hope that all the agitators involved are nailed to a tree and made to pay dearly for playing games with the employer.

If, as Swift claims, these guys are just "walking away from the lines" without checking in with the supervisors, then I do recommend they be sent to some intensive Sensitivity and Cultural training since tolerance and respect cut both ways - if none is shown, none should be given or expected. This isn't Somalia and "multiculturalism and diversity" also includes the Host Country. If it doesn't then those are just sham terms and movements and should be brought down immediately and exposed as frauds.

The article provides enough data to reasonably suspect there is something fishy with the Muslims' claims and the employment paperwork that Swift has on file will make or break the case in a heartbeat.

America is not at war. The military is at war. America is at the mall and the Congress is out to lunch.

mirage  posted on  2007-07-23   18:21:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: Burkeman1 (#38)

No, the logical thing to do is mind your own business and get a life. What is a Somali suppossed to do to become "American"?

I take that to mean that you haven't the slightest objection to seeing America overrun with millions of third world immigrants, and that anyone who does object should simply smile, shrug his shoulders and "get a life."

Rupert_Pupkin  posted on  2007-07-23   18:22:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: JCHarris (#39)

"This is BULLSHIT and the usual subversive rant from you !"

You double space out your exclimation point and seem to be familiar with me. Is this you Boris? ;-D

You claim that I am being 'subversive' by saying people have a right to be islamic in this country. If that is so, the U.S. Constitution and it's First Amendment granting freedom of religion is subversive according to little old you. How humorous can you be?

"NO ONE else gets to stop and pray and stick their asses up in the air on mats for allah or wobum gu gug or any other deity... "

Sure like the imagery of butts in the air, don't you? You must have an interesting bedroom life.

"YOU LOVE the notion of BALKANIZATION AND DEFEAT of all things American..."

And of course, this is why I served nine years in the U.S. Army, yes? How long and which branch of the U.S. Armed Forces did you serve in? I have spoken out against balkanization of this country many times, for example, whenever Ghost of Quantrill claimed "Americans needs a divorce from each other" I jumped on him on all fours. I am for the defeat of the shadow government and all things neocon. So if those are what passes for all things American to you, we agree on something to some degree.

"You would be the first to join the STASI ! and LOVE every minute mimicking Felix Dzherinsky!!

Go back and resume your tree-sitting stunts....maybe you can collect some more freeeeeee MONEY so you can continue to sit on your ass and continue your subversion instead of doing an honest days work."

Hey man, go talk to Cascadia Forest Defenders and tell them that they are remiss in not giving me the paychecks you wankers claim we get to sit in trees.

You may indeed be or not be Byeltsin of Goldi's little hate the Mexican forum, but you definately are someone from that manure pile.

Thanks for sharing some pieces of the dung collection you call a mind with me. I enjoy watching your display of dumb neocon tricks. it was quite amusing, and welcome to 4UM. ;-D

Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2007-07-23   18:25:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: JCHarris (#0)

I'll bet $5 US that the either the Ford Foundation or AEI is bankrolling these fucking refusniks.

"A functioning police state needs no police." - William S Burroughs

Dakmar  posted on  2007-07-23   18:27:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: Ferret Mike (#37)

Emphasis on you have nothing to say here. Whine and snip to someone who cares. I don't.

Oh, grow up.

According to the article they were "walking off the line without permission". Shutting down the line is NOT a minor accomodation - your religious days are - and I bet you give them notice, too.

BlueEyedGirl  posted on  2007-07-23   18:30:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: mirage (#43)

There is no tangible proof that there is anyting fishy with their claims. I am in favor of both the workers and Kraft sitting down and exploring the options and achieving compremise.

And I agree with you that tolerence and respect should cut both ways.

Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2007-07-23   18:30:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: Ferret Mike (#45)

You claim that I am being 'subversive' by saying people have a right to be islamic in this country. If that is so, the U.S. Constitution and it's First Amendment granting freedom of religion is subversive according to little old you. How humorous can you be?

This country was founded by satanists, illuminati and whatnot. Is Deism Apostacy or Heresy? Watch Wapner at 4:00 to find out.

"A functioning police state needs no police." - William S Burroughs

Dakmar  posted on  2007-07-23   18:30:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: BlueEyedGirl (#47)

"Oh, grow up"

Likewise, I'm sure.

"According to the article they were "walking off the line without permission". Shutting down the line is NOT a minor accomodation - your religious days are - and I bet you give them notice, too."

Which is why both the workers and management need to sit down, explore the options and work out a comprimise.

As for me, last Winter I worked taking orders for Harry and David (Bear Creek Orchards) and worked on the Winter Solstice because our ceremonies times did not conflict. It was my first Winter back at this job in several years. Had I asked I would have gotten the day off according to what management told me a couple of months earlier.

But it was a busy day, and they were short people, so I took mercy on them. Terrible thing for someone of Wicca to do, yes? ;-)

Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2007-07-23   18:36:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: mirage (#43)

One of the big issues I have with these faux-civil-rights agitators is that they deliberately create issues so they can launch a lawsuit. A second issue I have with faux-religious-civil-rights agitators is that they seem to want to be persecuted for some reason I cannot fathom.

I believe your first point answers the second.

"A functioning police state needs no police." - William S Burroughs

Dakmar  posted on  2007-07-23   18:38:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: mirage (#43)

This isn't Somalia and "multiculturalism and diversity" also includes the Host Country.

Oh, right, East Africa, the birthplace of tolerance!

"A functioning police state needs no police." - William S Burroughs

Dakmar  posted on  2007-07-23   18:40:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: Ferret Mike (#48) (Edited)

There is no tangible proof that there is anyting fishy with their claims. I am in favor of both the workers and Kraft sitting down and exploring the options and achieving compremise.

No tangible proof yet, but the proof will be in the employment paperwork that Swift has in its files. If it follows standard "modern anti-lawsuit" formats, it will demolish CAIR's case in about 30 seconds.

That being said, I've had people pull this crap on me before. Generally, I don't fire them, but I do send them on the more obnoxious details, like transferring them to the midnight backup brigade for a three-month stint.

They don't last long once that happens, but it does get the point across that being open and honest is required.

America is not at war. The military is at war. America is at the mall and the Congress is out to lunch.

mirage  posted on  2007-07-23   18:40:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: mirage, Ferret Mike (#53)

Back when we had strong labor unions these slobs would still be State of New York's problem.

"A functioning police state needs no police." - William S Burroughs

Dakmar  posted on  2007-07-23   18:44:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: Dakmar (#54)

"Back when we had strong labor unions these slobs would still be State of New York's problem."

With a little luck and hard work, I hope we have stronger unions in America's future. I am a strong proponent of unions and collective bargaining.

Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2007-07-23   18:45:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: Ferret Mike (#55)

Make it unprofitable for the bastards to cheat us, that's all the collectivism any of us need.

"A functioning police state needs no police." - William S Burroughs

Dakmar  posted on  2007-07-23   18:48:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: Dakmar (#52)

Oh, right, East Africa, the birthplace of tolerance!

"Some cultures are incompatible with each other, or with freedom."

"'Nativist' is a pejorative term used to describe people whose own families matter more to them than someone else's family matters to them."

Both are my own quotes used in various arguments to prove a point that insults don't get anyone anywhere.

America is not at war. The military is at war. America is at the mall and the Congress is out to lunch.

mirage  posted on  2007-07-23   18:50:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: Dakmar, mirage (#51)

second issue I have with faux-religious-civil-rights agitators is that they seem to want to be persecuted for some reason I cannot fathom.

I believe your first point answers the second.

"A functioning police state needs no police." - William S Burroughs

Dakma

Its what we used to call a total asshole going around with a chip on its shoulder begging for someone to knock it off.

No one now has the balls to oblige the bastards !

JCHarris  posted on  2007-07-23   18:50:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: Dakmar (#56)

"Make it unprofitable for the bastards to cheat us, that's all the collectivism any of us need."

As this cuts both ways, the need to keep management and the workers honest, collective bargaining and unionization is a good thing. Rarely if ever have I met any employer who was honest enough or had enough common sense enough that there was no room for empowering employees and giving them a voice at the table in regard to their jobs.

Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2007-07-23   18:52:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: JCHarris (#58)

"Its what we used to call a total asshole going around with a chip on its shoulder begging for someone to knock it off."

Sure discribes you to a T, bubba.

Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2007-07-23   18:53:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: JCHarris (#58)

Its what we used to call a total asshole going around with a chip on its shoulder begging for someone to knock it off.

It's gone beyond that, there are now people being paid to walk around with a chip on their shoulder.

"A functioning police state needs no police." - William S Burroughs

Dakmar  posted on  2007-07-23   18:56:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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