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Title: Muslim Workers at Nebraska Meatpacking Plant Complain of Religious Harassment
Source:
FOXNews.com
URL Source: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,290324,00.html
Published: Jul 22, 2007
Author: staff
Post Date: 2007-07-22 20:19:36 by JCHarris
Keywords: None
Views: 938
Comments: 84
Muslim Workers at Nebraska Meatpacking Plant Complain of Religious Harassment Sunday , July 22, 2007 OMAHA, Neb. — Supervisors at a meatpacking plant have fired or harassed dozens of Somali Muslim employees for trying to pray at sunset, violating civil rights laws, the workers and their advocates say. The five- to 10-minute prayer, known as the maghrib, must be done within a 45-minute window around sunset, according to Muslim rules. The workers at the Swift & Co. plant in Grand Island say they quit, were fired or were verbally and physically harassed over the issue. The Council on American-Islamic Relations has drafted a complaint to be filed with the federal Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. The petition compiles testimony from at least 44 workers who had planned to sign the complaint during a meeting Sunday. The signing was changed to a later date because of a logistical problem. Jama Mohamed, 28, said he was fired in June for leaving a production line to pray. Supervisors would not allow him a break, he said. "Some of them took the (prayer) mat from me; they started shouting, they started telling me to stop it, and one of them grabbed me by the collar of my shirt," Mohamed said through an interpreter. "I was crying at the time this was happening to me, and when I finished I told them while they were doing that I was in the middle of a prayer." Mohamed said he was then called to an office, where a supervisor fired him. Mohamed Rage, chairman of the Omaha Somali-American Community Organization, said Swift had fired at least two dozen workers for praying since May. Donald Selzer, an attorney for Greeley, Colo.-based Swift, said only three Somali workers were fired for reasons relating to the issue, and that it was for walking off the line without permission, not for praying. Unscheduled breaks can force unplanned shutdowns of lines, Selzer said. "That is a significant number of employees, and there is not much of a way to accommodate that consistent with keeping the production online," he said. The complaint reprises issues that boiled over in May, when 120 Somali workers abruptly quit for similar reasons. About 70 returned a week later, but union officials worried the issue would resurface through the late spring as sunset came later in the evening shift. "For three days it was all good and we were praying; there was no hassle, no interference, nothing at all," said Ali Schire, 30, who said he returned to the plant but was later fired for trying to pray. "All of a sudden after three days it just all got loose, and they were suspending people, they were firing people," Schire said through an interpreter. "Some of the people even had to give up praying at all for fear of being fired." Said Selzer: "These people are absolutely entitled to pray, and they should not be interfered with for doing so. But on the other hand, the only situations that I've been made aware of are people that walk off the job without permission, and that's a different kind of an issue." Dan Hoppes, president of Local 22 of the United Food and Commercial Workers Union, said he had not heard of many Somali workers being fired or harassed since May. Prayer breaks are not in the contract, he said, but he hopes to revisit the issue in negotiations in 2010. Swift rejected a suggestion by the Council on American-Islamic Relations to allow the Somalis who work evenings to leave in smaller shifts to avoid disrupting lines, said Rima Kapitan, an attorney with the group. The company suggested phasing evening workers to shifts earlier in the day that did not interrupt prayer times, Selzer and Hoppes said. "We're perfectly happy to try to pursue that angle so that we don't have this conflict," Selzer said. "But given the people who are on the second shift — many of whom prefer to be there — this sort of presents the operational realities." Mohamed said it is important for Muslims to pray within scheduled times and not to postpone prayers or say them early. "I would never forgive myself and God would not forgive me if I do not pray on time because I want to earn some money," he said.
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Get these STEENKIN VERMIN out of here ! We don't NEED Balkanization, takeover by the lowest findamentalist allah -babbling bastards or a world caliphate! What is the hell is WRONG with us? Get CAIR on the TERROR LIST where it BELONGS! US Rights for US CITIZENS ONLY. This takeover shit by every barbarian blubbering good-for-nothing Tribe has to CEASE.
FUKKJEM !! DEPORT THE BASTARDS
Then get a job that fits in with your religious needs instead of trying to force a company to fit you.
They are going to have to allow them the time to pray. They have a constitutional right to freedom of religion under the First Amendment, and this is not such a big issue it can't be worked out in an agreeable fashion. I do not support allowing cabbies to dictate what their passengers carry with them as has been the controversy in recent years, but their is no reason to begrudge people time to prey during set praying times. Christians who's sect demands they go to church on Sunday, or Orthodox Jews who observe the Sabbath are respected and not sanctioned if their bosses would prefer they work those days, so there is precedent to respect these people's religion too.
Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.
Mr. Harold Wallace Rosenthal, made this statement after admitting Jewish dominance in all significant national programs. He said, "We Jews continue to be amazed with the ease by which Christian Americans have fallen into our hands. While the naive Americans wait for Khrushchev to bury them, we have taught them to submit to our every demand." The Hidden Tyranny Interview http://www .iamthewitness.com/DarylBradfordSmith_Rosenthal.html ___________________________________________ JCHarris: you are another wannabe-zionazi-puto
The Swift plant in the town I left a few years ago had no end of trouble with these people, at least to hear the "yellow hats" (supervisors) tell it. They refused to take orders from female supervisors, wrapped their turds in toilet paper and threw them on the floor in the bathrooms, and were generally stubborn and belligerent, as befits Somali culture. They had a lot fewer problems with Mexicans, except for that whole "INS raid" thing that happened every 5 years or so.
The "Department of Defense" has never won a war. The "War Department" was undefeated.
Try telling that to Wal-Mart. If they say you're workin', you're workin', otherwise they fire you. Not that I've ever worked there, but that seems to be what a lot of the complaints are about.
The "Department of Defense" has never won a war. The "War Department" was undefeated.
That is incorrect as is the claim of a Constitutional right to practice a religion how, where, and as you wish -- and employers DO schedule practicing Christians on Sunday morning regularly. That's why the Catholic Church and other groups offer a Saturday Vigil service in addition to the normal Sunday service. The First Amendment says "Congress shall make no law" - it says absolutely nothing about private employers. Private employers *can* restrict the how, when, and where of religious practice. There is plenty of precedent. A large number of cases where Christians have attempted to "witness" in the workplace have already been lost by the practitioners of that religion. There is ample precedent that if the religious practice disrupts the workplace, it can be denied. There are also cases where the mere posting of portions of Leviticus inside a worker's cubicle is restricted. Again, ample precedent... It will be interesting to see how the courts react to this if it makes it there. You can bet that the "Christians denied" precedents will be introduced. My money says that it won't really go anywhere and that the Muslims will be required to make the same modifications that other groups are.
America is not at war. The military is at war. America is at the mall and the Congress is out to lunch.
I do not support allowing cabbies to dictate what their passengers carry with them as has been the controversy in recent years, but their is no reason to begrudge people time to prey during set praying times. Christians who's sect demands they go to church on Sunday, or Orthodox Jews who observe the Sabbath are respected and not sanctioned if their bosses would prefer they work those days, so there is precedent to respect these people's religion too. If they had tried that during their probationary periods before they were admitted to the union they'd have been fired and they'd have no recourse. So, they timed the moments of their "persecution", which is to say they didn't observe that "prayer window" when they knew they could be fired with no reasons even being required. So, if they didn't ask for and receive accommodation prior to commencement of employment they cannot demand it after slipping into the union. And, I bet they didn't punch out, either. Their "right to pray" means "right to be paid to pray". And, they have to wash before returning to work. Their 10 minute prayer break is probably 30 minutes. This is a good example of what to expect when their numbers are such as to encourage their true belligerence. They are in a culture war and half the fun of their religion is weaponizing it against non Muslims. And the same 1st amendment also guarantees freedom of the press, speech, assembly and the right to petition for redress of grievances. Do they have a right to take unscheduled breaks to publish religious/political newspapers and/or attend protests? Since when is a company required to endorse/subsidize political and/or religious views on their time and property? Also, does their right to religion entitle them to wear religious headgear instead of hairnets for instance? They have the right to find an employer who will accommodate them or start their own companies or stay home. The company probably arranged their visas and saved them from starvation and endelss tribal warfare and this is how the ingrates repay them?
"Stay on the bomb run, boys, I'm gonna get them doors open if it harelips everybody on Bear Creek!"__Maj. T.J. 'King' Kong, USAF
My religion requires me to beat my wives in rotation three times a day, and the company better not try to use some flimsy excuse like boycotts by women to infringe on my 1st amendment rights! tell em, Mike! HAH!
"Stay on the bomb run, boys, I'm gonna get them doors open if it harelips everybody on Bear Creek!"__Maj. T.J. 'King' Kong, USAF
Get these STEENKIN VERMIN out of here ! You live in Omaha Nebraska? "Here" is mighty big. I don't have a problem with the tiny number of evil mooslims living near me. I prefer them actually to some other home grown "minorities". We don't NEED Balkanization, takeover by the lowest findamentalist allah - babbling bastards or a world caliphate! World Caliphate? Uh huh. That is on my list of fears- right between being raped by aliens on their spaceship and being flattened by a meteor strike walking down the street. What is the hell is WRONG with us? Get CAIR on the TERROR LIST where it BELONGS! Uh huh- yep- get every mooslim voice that doesn't toe the Neowhore line on the "Terrorist list." US Rights for US CITIZENS ONLY. They are not "US Rights" and not granted or bestowed on anyone by any government. They exist independantly of your DC masters.
All Muslims should be deported from the U.S. It'd be a step in the right direction toward deporting other groups.
“When I am the weaker, I ask you for my freedom, because that is your principle; but when I am the stronger, I take away your freedom, because that is my principle.”-Louis Veuillot
Bite me Burkie.... I got sick of your destroy the west crap years ago....
You are in the same class as burkie and mekons when it comes to whining and supporting all enemies of western civilization.... I hope someday you are the first to meet the howling crowds you so much espouse.... or sit in a tree and collect insurance benefits for life then bitch about your misfortune....
Max Wrong MAX....unlike YOU....I think and am flexible and revere Western Civilization... YOU are either a leftist punk or YOU have stupidly swallowed the Zio-Marxist CRAP hook line and sinker....
They refused to take orders from female supervisors, wrapped their turds in toilet paper and threw them on the floor in the bathrooms, and were generally stubborn and belligerent, as befits Somali culture. Indrid Cold burkie.max,ferret and mekons love this !! This is what they want for the West and how their excuse for a mind works.... turds all, rolled in the toilet paper thay have made of every document from the Magna Carta to the Constitution.
it seems one of our biggest misfortunes is you. what did we do to deserve it?
Galatians 3:29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Galatians 3:29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. Red Jones The LEFT LOVES to CENSOR... the GROUPIE HERD LOVES TO EXCLUDE.... the TRIBE has won with YOU.
Oh you poor man.
it seems one of our biggest misfortunes is you. what did we do to deserve it? LOL in words you would understand... maybe... God sent me, like Isaiah, to shake you out of your complacency and worship of strange idols ! LOL...get it now?
Oh yeah, you got me. I'm part of the vast extensive "Destroy the west" plot. The omni present enemy secretly out to "destroy America" has been a mainstay of the paranoid DC worshipping Reichwing in this country since the Civil War. You are quite pathetic. As to the particulars of this story, I don't care. Omaha Nebraska is 1500 miles away from me and I don't know a soul involved in the story. I do know Fox News likes to stoke up these stories to stir reactions exactly like yours- stupid, angry, hysterical, and fearful. Fits right into the paradigm they are attempting to create with this story- and group think they are trying to cultivate. Pavlov rings the bell and JCHarris rolls over.
Burka You fit right in.
Faux Snooze -- about as dubious as World Nut Daily and Sorcha Faal.
Oh my God! Some moooslims at a meat packing plant have a dispute with their employer regarding their prayer times while at work! I live 1200 miles away and this doesn't involve me at all- but I will get worked up and angry and outraged anyway- because I am to lazy to actually care about something that really effects me and that I could change locally. So let me impotently rage against this "issue" which doesn't effect me in the slightest, with other "Americans" whom I have no other connection to other than federal tax forms and for whom I could generally care less about, on the internet and generally denounce immigrants everywhere for their audacity to even speak about anything.
So, they timed the moments of their "persecution", which is to say they didn't observe that "prayer window" when they knew they could be fired with no reasons even being required. So, if they didn't ask for and receive accommodation prior to commencement of employment they cannot demand it after slipping into the union. And, I bet they didn't punch out, either. Their "right to pray" means "right to be paid to pray". And, they have to wash before returning to work. Their 10 minute prayer break is probably 30 minutes. This needs to translate to: The right to be unemployed, and The right to starve.
People get days off..... People to whom the Sabbath is important will address this issue upon hiring, or expect to be fired.
I don't care if this employer grants them prayer break times or not. What bothers me is how this is called a "right" and how the mooslims seek government to provide relief. But in this, CAIR is absolutley no different from any other group based upon every identification possible - from the sexual appetites of certain people who claim to be a "Group" to obese pigs who also now claim to be a "Group"- everyone seeks government relief for their various imaginary issues and to protect their "rights" which are generally just petty and venal demands. In this regard then- CAIR is being quintessentially "American". Rather than forging cultural bonds on the human level- one to one- man to man- working out arraingements between each other on a social level- CAIR takes every petty demand, complaint, sleight, and grievance to the gubmint- usually the federal government. And there is nothing more "American" than that. It is what this country has become- a batch of rootless atoms who can't interact with each other in a civil society without every facet being watched over and laid claim to by government.
again Burkie....bite me.
They have a right to reasonable accoumidation with their prayer times, and Muslim prayers are generally known to be time specific. Therefore, there is no prior notification they needed to do before they were employed. Whet there definately is in this country is too much anti-Muslim bigotry, and not only do the extremists Muslims need to reach accomidation with others not of their faith, the same holds true to anti-Muslim 'jihadists.' This cuts both ways.
Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.
They are not victimizing others by wanting to pray at their normal times like someone who physically attacks someone else. I have seen the city bus company in Portland, Oregon have to change their dress code to allow women drivers of a very orthodox Christian sect wear skirts or dresses and not slacks, Sihks are generally allowed their heargear but not their ceremonial daggers which fall under regulations about having weapons at work, and I have asked for and gotten Pagan holidays -- like the Winter Solstice -- off before, and see nothing wrong with respecting employees enough to make minor adjustments to accomidate their religious needs and beliefs.
Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.
The optimal solution to this problem is not to have unassimilated people with alien customs living among us to begin with. If people want to come here and continue to live and think as if they're still in Somalia or Pakistan, the logical thing to do is to encourage them to go back rather than trying to "accomodate" them. Get US troops out of the Arab/Muslim world and Arab/Muslim immigrants out of the US and Europe. What part of that is so difficult for people?
I see nothing wrong with Muslims in this country, or accomidating their needs for prayer. All of this falls under the aupices of both sides dialoging to reach accomidaton, out in the end I see nothing involving them praying that is incombatable with them working for this company to the benefit of both parties.
Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.
Whet there definately is in this country is too much anti-Muslim bigotry, Oh, BS. I want breaks like that, and I want to be paid for it.
Emphasis on minor.
You're forgetting that the workers *asked* to work that particular shift and did not inform their employer ahead of time that they needed an accomodation. Since other shifts are available that do not conflict with their prayers, this lawsuit will go into the trash since the people complaining refuse to accept a reasonable accomodation. Here is the law in particular, from Title 7 of the Civil Rights code: (j) The term "religion" includes all aspects of religious observance and practice, as well as belief, unless an employer demonstrates that he is unable to reasonably accommodate to an employee's or prospective employee's religious observance or practice without undue hardship on the conduct of the employer's business. Walking away from an assembly line would fall under "hardship" since the line would have to stop in order to accomodate this request. Also, since other shifts are available that meet the accomodation, this lawsuit will fall on its face.
America is not at war. The military is at war. America is at the mall and the Congress is out to lunch.
That thay were paid during this time is a wild guess I don't buy.
Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.
Emphasis on you have nothing to say here. Whine and snip to someone who cares. I don't.
Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.
The optimal solution to this problem is not to have unassimilated people with alien customs living among us to begin with. Who is "us"? I don't know what "customs" the people who live next to me practice. If people want to come here and continue to live and think as if they're still in Somalia or Pakistan, the logical thing to do is to encourage them to go back rather than trying to "accomodate" them. No, the logical thing to do is mind your own business and get a life. What is a Somali suppossed to do to become "American"? Run up credit card debt, buy shit they don't need, and gain 50 pounds of blubber? I haven't had to "accomodate" anyone and I don't care if they choose to practive their own peculiar customs either. No skin off my nose- not my concern. Now I know there are 'mercans who get all in a tizzy if they are asked to "press one" on an automated help line- but frankly- they need to get an effing life. If your own "customs" and beliefs are so pathetically weak that you are threatened by the robust and unashamed practice of "alien" customs by a small number of immigrants- if you are that insecure- then you are the problem- not the dirty mooslims. Ideally, these Mooslem workers would have worked out an arraingement with their boss a long time ago (or not and just got new jobs). But since everyone in this country can literally make a federal case out of anything (and is encouraged by what passes for a "culture" in this country to do so) these mooslems are doing nothing more than what they have been encouraged to do since they got here- take everything as a insult- dig your heels in and don't dare forge bonds with anyone else- because you don't have too - the federal Gubmint government will protect even your feelings.
This is BULLSHIT and the usual subversive rant from you ! NO ONE else gets to stop and pray and stick their asses up in the air on mats for allah or wobum gu gug or any other deity... YOU LOVE the notion of BALKANIZATION AND DEFEAT of all things American... IMO You would be the first to join the STASI ! and LOVE every minute mimicking Felix Dzherinsky!! Go back and resume your tree-sitting stunts....maybe you can collect some more freeeeeee MONEY so you can continue to sit on your ass and continue your subversion instead of doing an honest days work.
Are you bed-ridden? or just a callous scrooge curmudgeon? I am GLAD you are NOT mu neighbor !
Which is precisely why I point out this is an issue that requires all parties to dialog. I have no doubt that if all parties sat down and worked out the possible options, that accomidation could be made that would satisfy everyone concerned here. Seldom if ever do all issues involving some religions come up until there is a job conflict involving it of some kind, so I don't buy the argument that there should have been prior mention of prayer time before these folks were hired.
Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.
That's just it ferret... you have never cared about anything but your dope smoking grunge free love tree sitting lifestyle.... and finagled to get a lifetime of free money like all your freeloading grunge friends... you have sat on YOUR ass and bitched and whined and never done a damned thing for anyone but yourself... YOU are what started the decline of America ! and YOU are what is precipitating the accelerating slide !
Here is why the prior mention of prayer time becomes an issue. Do you believe in Racial Profiling? If not, then how can anyone reasonably expect someone to be Muslim, of a particular sect of Muslims, and know precisely, up-front, what their requirements are? One of the big issues I have with these faux-civil-rights agitators is that they deliberately create issues so they can launch a lawsuit. A second issue I have with faux-religious-civil-rights agitators is that they seem to want to be persecuted for some reason I cannot fathom. There is a responsibility on the part of someone who needs an accommodation to disclose this ahead of time. Typically, on a line job, there is a sheet handed out which details the responsibilities and in the hiring process there is another sheet which asks for details of problems or issues. All of this MUST be signed off on by the employee along with other paperwork stating that they understand what the deal is and that they have either requested an accommodation or waived their right to an accommodation. This paperwork, if it exists (I've never seen a job in recent years that did not have it - I've given it to many people myself) is proof positive that this is a bogus accusation. If it is shown to be a bogus accusation, I fervently hope that all the agitators involved are nailed to a tree and made to pay dearly for playing games with the employer. If, as Swift claims, these guys are just "walking away from the lines" without checking in with the supervisors, then I do recommend they be sent to some intensive Sensitivity and Cultural training since tolerance and respect cut both ways - if none is shown, none should be given or expected. This isn't Somalia and "multiculturalism and diversity" also includes the Host Country. If it doesn't then those are just sham terms and movements and should be brought down immediately and exposed as frauds. The article provides enough data to reasonably suspect there is something fishy with the Muslims' claims and the employment paperwork that Swift has on file will make or break the case in a heartbeat.
America is not at war. The military is at war. America is at the mall and the Congress is out to lunch.
I take that to mean that you haven't the slightest objection to seeing America overrun with millions of third world immigrants, and that anyone who does object should simply smile, shrug his shoulders and "get a life."
You double space out your exclimation point and seem to be familiar with me. Is this you Boris? ;-D You claim that I am being 'subversive' by saying people have a right to be islamic in this country. If that is so, the U.S. Constitution and it's First Amendment granting freedom of religion is subversive according to little old you. How humorous can you be? Sure like the imagery of butts in the air, don't you? You must have an interesting bedroom life. And of course, this is why I served nine years in the U.S. Army, yes? How long and which branch of the U.S. Armed Forces did you serve in? I have spoken out against balkanization of this country many times, for example, whenever Ghost of Quantrill claimed "Americans needs a divorce from each other" I jumped on him on all fours. I am for the defeat of the shadow government and all things neocon. So if those are what passes for all things American to you, we agree on something to some degree. Go back and resume your tree-sitting stunts....maybe you can collect some more freeeeeee MONEY so you can continue to sit on your ass and continue your subversion instead of doing an honest days work." Hey man, go talk to Cascadia Forest Defenders and tell them that they are remiss in not giving me the paychecks you wankers claim we get to sit in trees. You may indeed be or not be Byeltsin of Goldi's little hate the Mexican forum, but you definately are someone from that manure pile. Thanks for sharing some pieces of the dung collection you call a mind with me. I enjoy watching your display of dumb neocon tricks. it was quite amusing, and welcome to 4UM. ;-D
Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.
I'll bet $5 US that the either the Ford Foundation or AEI is bankrolling these fucking refusniks.
"A functioning police state needs no police." - William S Burroughs
Oh, grow up. According to the article they were "walking off the line without permission". Shutting down the line is NOT a minor accomodation - your religious days are - and I bet you give them notice, too.
There is no tangible proof that there is anyting fishy with their claims. I am in favor of both the workers and Kraft sitting down and exploring the options and achieving compremise. And I agree with you that tolerence and respect should cut both ways.
Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.
This country was founded by satanists, illuminati and whatnot. Is Deism Apostacy or Heresy? Watch Wapner at 4:00 to find out.
"A functioning police state needs no police." - William S Burroughs
Likewise, I'm sure. Which is why both the workers and management need to sit down, explore the options and work out a comprimise. As for me, last Winter I worked taking orders for Harry and David (Bear Creek Orchards) and worked on the Winter Solstice because our ceremonies times did not conflict. It was my first Winter back at this job in several years. Had I asked I would have gotten the day off according to what management told me a couple of months earlier. But it was a busy day, and they were short people, so I took mercy on them. Terrible thing for someone of Wicca to do, yes? ;-)
Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.
I believe your first point answers the second.
"A functioning police state needs no police." - William S Burroughs
Oh, right, East Africa, the birthplace of tolerance!
"A functioning police state needs no police." - William S Burroughs
No tangible proof yet, but the proof will be in the employment paperwork that Swift has in its files. If it follows standard "modern anti-lawsuit" formats, it will demolish CAIR's case in about 30 seconds. That being said, I've had people pull this crap on me before. Generally, I don't fire them, but I do send them on the more obnoxious details, like transferring them to the midnight backup brigade for a three-month stint. They don't last long once that happens, but it does get the point across that being open and honest is required.
America is not at war. The military is at war. America is at the mall and the Congress is out to lunch.
Back when we had strong labor unions these slobs would still be State of New York's problem.
"A functioning police state needs no police." - William S Burroughs
With a little luck and hard work, I hope we have stronger unions in America's future. I am a strong proponent of unions and collective bargaining.
Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.
Make it unprofitable for the bastards to cheat us, that's all the collectivism any of us need.
"A functioning police state needs no police." - William S Burroughs
"Some cultures are incompatible with each other, or with freedom." "'Nativist' is a pejorative term used to describe people whose own families matter more to them than someone else's family matters to them." Both are my own quotes used in various arguments to prove a point that insults don't get anyone anywhere.
America is not at war. The military is at war. America is at the mall and the Congress is out to lunch.
I believe your first point answers the second. "A functioning police state needs no police." - William S Burroughs Dakma Its what we used to call a total asshole going around with a chip on its shoulder begging for someone to knock it off. No one now has the balls to oblige the bastards !
As this cuts both ways, the need to keep management and the workers honest, collective bargaining and unionization is a good thing. Rarely if ever have I met any employer who was honest enough or had enough common sense enough that there was no room for empowering employees and giving them a voice at the table in regard to their jobs.
Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.
Sure discribes you to a T, bubba.
Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.
It's gone beyond that, there are now people being paid to walk around with a chip on their shoulder.
"A functioning police state needs no police." - William S Burroughs
Sure discribes you to a T, bubba. LMAO I actually was waiting for your ad hom....saw it coming.... get a job !
I'm in an odd position because I have a huge bundle to bring to this "table" thing, and also grew up on stories of UAW protecting lazy good-for-nothings. I recuse myself from further addressing that post.
"A functioning police state needs no police." - William S Burroughs
It's gone beyond that, there are now people being paid to walk around with a chip on their shoulder. -Dakmar That is so true !! Proxies for the ACLU, all the Tribes ADL/ZOA/Marxist Wacko/B'naiB'rith branches who profit from dissolution and conflict and balkanization... "We feel better in a country we have severely weakened."
If you haven't already, do some research on Ford Foundation and Mecha. Eye-openning, to say the least.
"A functioning police state needs no police." - William S Burroughs
Didn't you hear? The world jewish congress has announced that Hillary has been selected as the next president. She'll get everything fixed up OK. No worries.
Heil Hillary!
"A functioning police state needs no police." - William S Burroughs
"America" is really not my concern and anyone who thinks in such terms is a silly dope and fooling themselves. I will content myself to caring about my city and maybe my state- where I can actually have some sort of effect. I have no problem with any immigrant near me. No immigrant has ever mugged me, raped me, beat me, or murdered me or anyone I know. I haven't contracted leprosy or "killer TB" from a dirty third world mud person either. See- I don't get my concerns and fears from the "news". Mine are real. I tend to deal with people on a one on one level and not buy into ridiculous agenda driven ideological pap.
A vote for Fred Thompson is a drop of rubber cement stretching between Hillary's large white bum and the Oval Office!
"A functioning police state needs no police." - William S Burroughs
I do not support allowing cabbies to dictate what their passengers carry with them as has been the controversy in recent years, but their is no reason to begrudge people time to prey during set praying times. Christians who's sect demands they go to church on Sunday, or Orthodox Jews who observe the Sabbath are respected and not sanctioned if their bosses would prefer they work those days, so there is precedent to respect these people's religion too. I think this story is partly bogus anyway. Swift and other slaughter plants are desperate for workers, and it's one REALLY nasty, exhausting job. In the best of times, turnover is 100 percent a year. It sounds like these people were not scheduling their breaks, just walking off the line. Companies like this will do what they have to to retain workers.
Get US troops out of the Arab/Muslim world and Arab/Muslim immigrants out of the US and Europe. What part of that is so difficult for people? Most sensible post I've seen so far on this thread. It goes against human nature to have various peoples living under one roof so to speak, throughout history it has spelled doom for any and every society that became multicultural. Some people can think they are too highly "educated" or humane or what have you to become bigoted under such circumstances, but human nature can't be changed and any multicultural society will self destruct, it simply does not work.
We've probably all worked holidays - I certainly have. But it's important that you take care of your job so that the place keeps running (and they can pay you) and you don't get fired (and they continue to pay you). Walking off a line shuts it down, screws up everyone and production. This should have been brought up during the hiring process by the employees (their religion, therefore their responsibility) or they should have simply asked for a different shift. Most people are willing to make accomodations, especially religious ones, but they need to be accomodations that can be made without disrupting the entire organization.
I got curious so I did some checking. According to the majority of Islamic Scholars and various fatwas I found via Google, (about 20-30) - the consensus is that is the responsibility of the BELIEVER and not the EMPLOYER to deal with this mess. The BELIEVER is to ensure that he does not take a job that conflicts with his religious obligations. So, they aren't even practicing Islam if they take a job that interferes with their religious obligations. I'll email this stuff to Swift and see if they get a giggle out of it. I'll check with our local Imam tomorrow but I bet he'll concur.
America is not at war. The military is at war. America is at the mall and the Congress is out to lunch.
Thanks for the info. That still might be their take on this, but not mine personally. I still feel both sides need to sit down and work out their differences, and that won't ever change. Workers generally get the shaft in the United States, and I always have more sympathy for them. All I will say for management is I have sympathy for them, and none for stockholders what so ever.
Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.
They should, but it should be up-front and before there is a confrontation, not after. It takes 'two' to have a problem and generally only one to defuse it or allay it. As with all things, there is plenty of blame to go around, but it appears that the majority goes with the employee in *this* case. In a different case....well, it has to be looked at individually. There isn't a 'wide net' that can be cast - elsewise we get a problem like a Bill of Attainder and that just isn't cool.
America is not at war. The military is at war. America is at the mall and the Congress is out to lunch.
Thanks for your input on this. You and others certainly gave me valuble perspective on this case. I have not changed my view that these folks should have a right to pray and that accomidation for this should be made, but you have brought up good points that are impossible to ignore. Thanks.
Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.
Thanks for the support. My basic position is this - I can well understand how much people in the Arab world, Latin America, etc. resent the presence of Americans, troops or otherwise, in their countries. So why is it so unreasonable to say that while I sympathize with that, I don't want them in my backyard either? If I wanted to live among Somalis, I would move to Somalia.
I suppose that Arabs and Africans rioting and burning in Paris and other French cities two years ago was just "ideological pap" and not real? Or the fact that US/Mexico border cities have some of the highest crime rates combined with the lowest standards of living and education levels is also "ideological pap"? Is it also your implied position that we should open our borders for anyone from anywhere and turn the US into a giant, multicultural boarding house for the dregs of third world countries?
Yes- it is ideological pap. As each thing is different from the other- with different reasons, backrounds, and causes. Lumped together by agenda driven ideological weasals and great simplifiers for fearful stupid dopes like you to suck up. Yes- the great Moooslim riots in france that had less death and physical violence than a typical friday night nation wide theater release of a movie about Tupac in this country. Yeah- just lump that together in with Mexicans of the Southwest- and then lump that in with education and blah blah . . . oooh, I am so afraid. My implied position is to ignore agenda driven ideological bozos who embrace great big fear inducing statistics and talk about big macro threats- that I don't see on the personal level.
For sure, you are a fraud Burky. Semites are all brothers.
Yeah- just lump that together in with Mexicans of the Southwest- and then lump that in with education Translation: if something is not right in front of my snout and doesn't affect me personally, than it can't possibly be a problem. If you aren't in the middle of rioting Africans, it's not an issue. If you don't live in sight of border shanty towns, whey then, they aren't a problem either. That's why gated community types never see anything the matter with Third World immigration - it's somebody else's issue. So go ahead, bury your head in the sand and pretend that the social and economic problems caused by Third World immigration don't exist. And the idea that there's a mass media or political conspiracy to discredit third world immigrants is the biggest joke of them all. In case you're too much of an idiot or an ignoramus to notice, both the Bush administration and its supposed Democratic "opponents" support amnesty and share the exact same views on Third World immigration as you do. If anyone has been swindled by mass propaganda by the establishment it's you. Finally, if you can't see a common denominator between the problems African immigrants cause in Europe and those that Third World immigrants cause in America, then you are either a moron or dishonest. I suspect a combination of both.
Kudos, R_P. Yours was a wonderful reply to an ignorant statement. The internationalists among us fail to recognize the invasion across the Mexican border is not an accident. It is a premeditated action meant to be part of a larger plan to submerge the United States in a regional bloc of nations including Canada and Mexico. If these internationalist plans are implemented we can kiss the Constitution goodbye, whatever is left, and tear up the Declaration of Independence. Those who choose to ignore the invasion are no better that the invaders themselves and deserve the same fate.
No- its called not being a dope fool taken in by shysters who pedal fear. Most "problems" big national groups or "movements" pedal on ANY issue are a load of shit and someone's agenda. Blah blah- oh the turd worlders are coming eeeek. Here is this stat and that stat and Oh my how scary! Crap and pig spunk. All of it. You want to fear something- give me a million dollars and a staff of 6 and I could have you fearing the Tse Tse fly or Nepalese Maoist guerillas coming to get you. Like I said- you suck up great big lumped stats from fear mongers with agendas who spew their shit over an entire country of 300 hundred plus million. And then not only that but lump in Moooslems in Europe into the mix. What a tard you are. I DON'T care about Southwest Anglos and THEIR immigration problem. I can't do anything about it- nor do I want to get involved and anyone who doesn't live there who says they do care and wants to help is a liar with an agenda and their own motives. I care about my city and to a lessor extent my state. I don't have a problem wiht immigrants here. In fact- few people do- it isn't an issue that we whine about or that we particulary fear. You do? You got a problem with the diryty mud people? Fine- do whatever you want. I could care less- just as long as you don't seek to use the FEDS to impose your silly dope fears on the entire country.
#2. To: All (#0)
Mohamed said it is important for Muslims to pray within scheduled times
#3. To: JCHarris (#0)
Mohamed said it is important for Muslims to pray within scheduled times and not to postpone prayers or say them early.
#4. To: JCHarris (#0)
#5. To: JCHarris (#2)
#6. To: JCHarris (#0)
#7. To: Ferret Mike (#4)
Christians who's sect demands they go to church on Sunday, or Orthodox Jews who observe the Sabbath are respected and not sanctioned if their bosses would prefer they work those days, so there is precedent to respect these people's religion too.
#8. To: Ferret Mike (#4)
Christians who's sect demands they go to church on Sunday, or Orthodox Jews who observe the Sabbath are respected and not sanctioned if their bosses would prefer they work those days, so there is precedent to respect these people's religion too.
#9. To: Ferret Mike (#4)
They are going to have to allow them the time to pray. They have a constitutional right to freedom of religion under the First Amendment, and this is not such a big issue it can't be worked out in an agreeable fashion.
#10. To: mirage, Ferret Mike, christine (#8)
#11. To: JCHarris (#1)
(Edited)
#12. To: JCHarris (#0)
#13. To: Burkeman1 (#11)
#14. To: Ferret Mike, Burkeman1, mekons1, HOUNDAWG, YertleTurtle, BlueEyedGirl, Diana, wudidiz, wbales. (#4)
They have a constitutional right to freedom of religion under the First Amendment
#15. To: Max (#5)
JCHarris: you are another wannabe-zionazi-puto
#16. To: Indrid Cold, Burkeman1, mekons2, max, ferretmike, Yertle Turtle (#6)
The Swift plant in the town I left a few years ago had no end of trouble with these people, at least to hear the "yellow hats" (supervisors) tell it.
#17. To: JCHarris (#14)
bitch about your misfortune....
#18. To: Red Jones (#17)
it seems one of our biggest misfortunes is you. what did we do to deserve it?
#19. To: HOUNDDAWG (#10)
...my wives...
The uncertainty of the outcome is what frightens people.
#20. To: Red Jones (#17)
bitch about your misfortune....
#21. To: JCHarris (#16)
#22. To: Burkeman1 (#21)
- stupid, angry, hysterical, and fearful.
#23. To: Burkeman1 (#21)
I do know Fox News likes to stoke up these stories to stir reactions exactly like yours- stupid, angry, hysterical, and fearful.
#24. To: Vitamin Z (#23)
#25. To: HOUNDDAWG (#9)
If they had tried that during their probationary periods before they were admitted to the union they'd have been fired and they'd have no recourse.
#26. To: Ferret Mike (#4)
Christians who's sect demands they go to church on Sunday, or Orthodox Jews who observe the Sabbath are respected and not sanctioned if their bosses would prefer they work those days, so there is precedent to respect these people's religion too.
#27. To: BlueEyedGirl (#25)
#28. To: Burkeman1 (#21)
#29. To: BlueEyedGirl (#25)
#30. To: HOUNDDAWG (#10)
"My religion requires me to beat my wives in rotation three times a day, and the company better not try to use some flimsy excuse like boycotts by women to infringe on my 1st amendment rights!"
#31. To: Ferret Mike (#29)
(Edited)
#32. To: Rupert_Pupkin (#31)
#33. To: Ferret Mike (#29)
They have a right to reasonable accoumidation with their prayer times, and Muslim prayers are generally known to be time specific. Therefore, there is no prior notification they needed to do before they were employed.
#34. To: Ferret Mike (#30)
and see nothing wrong with respecting employees enough to make minor adjustments to accomidate their religious needs and beliefs.
#35. To: Ferret Mike (#29)
They have a right to reasonable accoumidation with their prayer times, and Muslim prayers are generally known to be time specific. Therefore, there is no prior notification they needed to do before they were employed.
#36. To: BlueEyedGirl (#33)
"Oh, BS. I want breaks like that, and I want to be paid for it."
#37. To: BlueEyedGirl (#34)
"Emphasis on minor."
#38. To: Rupert_Pupkin (#31)
#39. To: Ferret Mike (#32)
I see nothing wrong with Muslims in this country, or accomidating their needs for prayer.
#40. To: Burkeman1 (#38)
#41. To: mirage (#35)
"Walking away from an assembly line would fall under "hardship" since the line would have to stop in order to accomodate this request. Also, since other shifts are available that meet the accomodation, this lawsuit will fall on its face."
#42. To: Ferret Mike (#37)
Whine and snip to someone who cares. I don't.
#43. To: Ferret Mike (#41)
Seldom if ever do all issues involving some religions come up until there is a job conflict involving it of some kind, so I don't buy the argument that there should have been prior mention of prayer time before these folks were hired.
#44. To: Burkeman1 (#38)
No, the logical thing to do is mind your own business and get a life. What is a Somali suppossed to do to become "American"?
#45. To: JCHarris (#39)
"This is BULLSHIT and the usual subversive rant from you !"
"NO ONE else gets to stop and pray and stick their asses up in the air on mats for allah or wobum gu gug or any other deity... "
"YOU LOVE the notion of BALKANIZATION AND DEFEAT of all things American..."
"You would be the first to join the STASI ! and LOVE every minute mimicking Felix Dzherinsky!!
#46. To: JCHarris (#0)
#47. To: Ferret Mike (#37)
Emphasis on you have nothing to say here. Whine and snip to someone who cares. I don't.
#48. To: mirage (#43)
#49. To: Ferret Mike (#45)
You claim that I am being 'subversive' by saying people have a right to be islamic in this country. If that is so, the U.S. Constitution and it's First Amendment granting freedom of religion is subversive according to little old you. How humorous can you be?
#50. To: BlueEyedGirl (#47)
"Oh, grow up"
"According to the article they were "walking off the line without permission". Shutting down the line is NOT a minor accomodation - your religious days are - and I bet you give them notice, too."
#51. To: mirage (#43)
One of the big issues I have with these faux-civil-rights agitators is that they deliberately create issues so they can launch a lawsuit. A second issue I have with faux-religious-civil-rights agitators is that they seem to want to be persecuted for some reason I cannot fathom.
#52. To: mirage (#43)
This isn't Somalia and "multiculturalism and diversity" also includes the Host Country.
#53. To: Ferret Mike (#48)
(Edited)
There is no tangible proof that there is anyting fishy with their claims. I am in favor of both the workers and Kraft sitting down and exploring the options and achieving compremise.
#54. To: mirage, Ferret Mike (#53)
#55. To: Dakmar (#54)
"Back when we had strong labor unions these slobs would still be State of New York's problem."
#56. To: Ferret Mike (#55)
#57. To: Dakmar (#52)
Oh, right, East Africa, the birthplace of tolerance!
#58. To: Dakmar, mirage (#51)
second issue I have with faux-religious-civil-rights agitators is that they seem to want to be persecuted for some reason I cannot fathom.
#59. To: Dakmar (#56)
"Make it unprofitable for the bastards to cheat us, that's all the collectivism any of us need."
#60. To: JCHarris (#58)
"Its what we used to call a total asshole going around with a chip on its shoulder begging for someone to knock it off."
#61. To: JCHarris (#58)
Its what we used to call a total asshole going around with a chip on its shoulder begging for someone to knock it off.
#62. To: Ferret Mike (#60)
"Its what we used to call a total asshole going around with a chip on its shoulder begging for someone to knock it off."
#63. To: Ferret Mike (#59)
As this cuts both ways, the need to keep management and the workers honest, collective bargaining and unionization is a good thing. Rarely if ever have I met any employer who was honest enough or had enough common sense enough that there was no room for empowering employees and giving them a voice at the table in regard to their jobs.
#64. To: Dakmar (#61)
Its what we used to call a total asshole going around with a chip on its shoulder begging for someone to knock it off.
#65. To: JCHarris (#64)
#66. To: Dakmar (#65)
The uncertainty of the outcome is what frightens people.
#67. To: Esso (#66)
#68. To: Rupert_Pupkin (#44)
#69. To: Dakmar (#67)
The uncertainty of the outcome is what frightens people.
#70. To: Esso (#69)
#71. To: Ferret Mike (#4)
They are going to have to allow them the time to pray. They have a constitutional right to freedom of religion under the First Amendment, and this is not such a big issue it can't be worked out in an agreeable fashion.
#72. To: Rupert_Pupkin, ferret mike, Burkeman1 (#31)
(Edited)
The optimal solution to this problem is not to have unassimilated people with alien customs living among us to begin with. If people want to come here and continue to live and think as if they're still in Somalia or Pakistan, the logical thing to do is to encourage them to go back rather than trying to "accomodate" them.
#73. To: Ferret Mike (#50)
But it was a busy day, and they were short people, so I took mercy on them. Terrible thing for someone of Wicca to do, yes? ;-)
#74. To: Ferret Mike (#59)
more data...
#75. To: mirage (#74)
#76. To: Ferret Mike (#75)
I still feel both sides need to sit down and work out their differences, and that won't ever change.
#77. To: mirage (#76)
(Edited)
#78. To: Diana (#72)
It goes against human nature to have various peoples living under one roof so to speak, throughout history it has spelled doom for any and every society that became multicultural.
#79. To: Burkeman1 (#68)
I have no problem with any immigrant near me. No immigrant has ever mugged me, raped me, beat me, or murdered me or anyone I know. I haven't contracted leprosy or "killer TB" from a dirty third world mud person either. See- I don't get my concerns and fears from the "news". Mine are real. I tend to deal with people on a one on one level and not buy into ridiculous agenda driven ideological pap.
#80. To: Rupert_Pupkin (#79)
#81. To: Burkeman1 (#80)
Yes- the great Moooslim riots in france that had less death and physical violence than a typical friday night nation wide theater release of a movie about Tupac in this country.
#82. To: Burkeman1 (#80)
(Edited)
My implied position is to ignore agenda driven ideological bozos who embrace great big fear inducing statistics and talk about big macro threats- that I don't see on the personal level...
#83. To: Rupert_Pupkin (#82)
#84. To: Rupert_Pupkin (#82)
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