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Title: University of Colorado Board Votes to Fire Embattled Professor Ward Churchill
Source:
Fox
URL Source: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,290642,00.html
Published: Jul 24, 2007
Author: staff
Post Date: 2007-07-24 20:40:04 by JCHarris
Keywords: None
Views: 971
Comments: 46
http://FOXNews.com University of Colorado Board Votes to Fire Embattled Professor Ward Churchill Tuesday , July 24, 2007 BOULDER, Colo. — The University of Colorado's governing board on Tuesday fired a professor whose essay likening some Sept. 11 victims to a Nazi leader provoked national outrage and led to an investigation of research misconduct. Ward Churchill, who had vowed to sue if the Board of Regents took action against him, said immediately after the 8-1 vote was announced: "New game, new game." Three faculty committees had accused Churchill of plagiarism, falsification and other misconduct. The research allegations stem from some of Churchill's other writings, although the investigation began after the controversy over his Sept. 11 essay. "The decision was really pretty basic," said university President Hank Brown, adding that the school had little choice but to fire Churchill to protect the integrity of the university's research. "The individual did not express regret, did not apologize, did not indicate a willingness to refrain from this type of falsification in the future," Brown said. Churchill's essay mentioning Sept. 11 victims and Nazi leader Adolf Eichmann prompted a chorus of demands for his firing, but university officials concluded it was protected speech under the First Amendment. Brown had recommended in May that the regents fire Churchill after faculty committees accused him of misconduct in some of his academic writing. The allegations included misrepresenting the effects of federal laws on American Indians, fabricating evidence that the Army deliberately spread smallpox to Mandan Indians in 1837, and claiming the work of a Canadian environmental group as his own. But the essay that thrust Churchill into the national spotlight, titled "Some People Push Back: On the Justice of Roosting Chickens," was not part of the investigation. That essay and a follow-up book argued that the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks were a response to a long history of U.S. abuses. Churchill said those killed in the World Trade Center collapse were "a technocratic corps at the very heart of America's global financial empire" and called them "little Eichmanns." Churchill has said Eichmann was a bureaucrat who carried out policies like the Holocaust that were planned by others but was still responsible for his own actions. Churchill wrote the piece shortly after the attacks, but it drew little notice until 2005, when a professor at Hamilton College in upstate New York called attention to it when Churchill was invited to speak there. In the uproar that followed, the regents apologized to "all Americans" for the essay, and the Colorado Legislature labeled Churchill's remarks "evil and inflammatory." Bill Owens, then governor of Colorado, said Churchill should be fired, and George Pataki, then governor of New York, called Churchill a "bigoted terrorist supporter." School officials concluded Churchill couldn't be dismissed because he was exercising his First Amendment rights. But they launched the investigation into his research in other work. A faculty committee and an interim chancellor recommended Churchill be fired. When a second committee reviewed the case, three of its five members recommended a suspension. The other two said he should be fired. Churchill remained on the university payroll but had been out of the classroom since spring 2006, first because he was on leave and later because the school relieved him of teaching duties after the interim chancellor recommended he be fired. The lone no vote on Tuesday came from Regent Cindy Carlisle, who was not immediately available for comment.
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#6. To: Zipporah (#5)
It took UC Boulder long enough...and I am still surprised as this is the first leftist I have seen disciplined except for a professor run out of the East to California for Union organizing :-)
Of course, I don't know whether Churchill's academic integrity is intact or not; if not, it's proper that he should go. As for the article posted above: I can find little or nothing with which to disagree. Revenge for one crime (U.S. foreign policy vis a vis the Middle East) is not justification for another (9/11). Still, the U.S. cannot affect to be surprised. We've been inviting such revenge -- begging for it, in fact -- for decades.
- - - - - - - - - - - ..nor I.. it basically just is saying it's our foreign policy that is the issue.
That, and -- more disturbingly -- that Americans like me (antiwar types) bear the guilt for not having overthrown our false leaders. And that may be true. I tell myself that I can't get that job done, and I expect that's true enough. But maybe the honorable thing to do is to die trying, rather than continue to live in comfort under the - - - - - - - - - - - one girl was forced to buy his cigarettes all semester, by the case, or he would not sign off on her course schedule. This stuff has to be thoroughly documented. Don't put up allegations such as this without back-up material. Otherwise, it's just insane crap. I can count on ZERO fingers, how many profs ever forced me to buy ANTHING by the case to pass a class - are you shitting us?
Got any citations for your insane accusations against Ward? I've met him several times and consider him a friend. I probably won't get an answer for a while with all this going on, but I copied will later refer your post to him marking it with your real name as you no doubt would want, just because I care. ;-) If you have anything you would like me to add to the e and snail mail I'm sending, do let me know.
Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.
I don't know if he palgerized the other stuff - and it dosn't matter. He was villified for the above essay. No one had heard of the guy until he wrote this. The notion that the US gov. might not be a totally innocent V. the 9-11 attacks was considered unacceptable by the Colorado republican establishment. As far as I know, the actual facts of his essay were never discussed. The WTC were filled with many supporters of and benificaries of US Imperialism. The US gov has no clothes on in this. If they can call water treatment plants legitimate targets in Iraq, then the WTC towers are easily as well. Ward was fired for pointing out the utter hypocricies of US foreign policy. They hate us cause were free - They hate our freedom of speech.
"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men" Plato
Mental Ward Churchill is PRECISELY what is wrong with US Education. I heard he put students in a plastic shredder legs first !!!
"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men" Plato
P!
"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men" Plato
This is crap like I'd expect on fr or lp - just totally inane allegations, without any documentation of the charges, or inferences. Completely unworthy of this forum and its serious members.
A case of cigs is sixty cartons. I buy em wholesale at around $26/carton. So Ward's making her buy him a case of cigs for $780??? Quite a smoker.
"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men" Plato
Exactly. There was also a Jewish angle, “little Eichmanns;” the chosen probably own a copyright on that name. I feel sorry for the guy; the university probably had a committee to dig up “actionable” dirt on him. His firing was a foregone conclusion.
I'll wait until tomorrow to give you time to reply should you wish. Ward Churchill has written around 20 books and 100 articles with approximately 12,000 footnotes and citations. The "investigative panel" found seven instances of alleged mis-conduct after going over his body of work for quite a long period of time. Ward Churchill had accurate and documented info 99.9996% of the time whether you agree with his ideas or not. This investigation did not start untill after his well publicizied inflamatory remarks concerning 9-11. This is not about "integrity" its about silencing someone who says things that make people with small minds uncomfortable. The couldn't fire him directly for his speech, so they started a witch hunt. There are also charges from 2 groups of attorney and professors alleging misconduct by the investigative committee itself. The lawsuit should prove fasinating to watch.
Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.
Yep - His plagerations were a witch hunt and AFAICT they stayed away from the meat of the matter. If we choose to live in a fairy tale land the end will not be a fairy tale.
"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men" Plato
Yes this is what it is. I have a home in Colorado and have watched this play out in it's revealing forms. Nobody (in republican party) wanted to address the important issues Ward brought to the table here. So they diverted.
"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men" Plato
Second that.
"If ignorant superstition is found on the side of the persecutors, still more amazing superstition is found on the side of the persecuted." -- Nesta Webster
Not true. He would have skated if this were the only issue. Before you start crying for Mental Ward look at his detailed history from sources other than his lying pen. Then take a hard look at his wife's death, his documented fraud, plagiarism, student and colleague intimidation and threats. He is a thug. Nothing more. This guy is a criminal all dressed up like Mr Cotter and playing to the rabid left and Crew for his salvation.
You evidently read only from the Guardian and leMonde and Rolling Stone. I educated myself on this creature , you do the same. I work so do your own research, or do not do it. It is nothing to me. I do not have a cushy free lunch stipend so I can sit around all day playing. Best regards.
Completely unworthy of this forum and its serious members. I'm fairly new back here and reading some of this crap almost made me turn tail and run. Why can people NOT see that no one ever questioned Churchill's ethnicity or accused him of any supposed "crimes" throughout his career until after his comments regarding 911. This whole thing just reminds me so much of Chief Ahenekew in Canada, where everyone was perfectly satisfied with his chiefdomship until he goofed up a little and co-opted the word "nazi" and made a few off the cuff disparaging comments about Jews ... then suddenly he was chopped liver. He lost his title and the tribe was practically forced to disown him over that one incident. Blind!! Irresponsible!!!
The lines in the sand are being drawn: for many of us it was the MIHOP events of 9/11 which triggered the madness in the ME. For others, it is smirk's latest XO allowing him to seize anyone's property who opposes his insane policies.
Sheesh, my first line in the sand goes all the way back to the murder of Gordon Kahl. But then you should just get a load of my sand, its got more lines than Lenno. Sometimes I wonder if I'll ever do something besides draw another line after they cross over each one. I'm probably not alone in that.
I read far more deeply then that. You are a sissy who would never tell your lies to Ward's face. You sneer online behind people's back like a vindictive old lesbian who's family loathes her. We will meet face to face someday. Then we will talk about some things said to me when you felt safe doing the keyboard commando routine. And if you remain civil, I am no monster, we will just talk as I can handle you verbally just fine as well as any other way of dealing with you. Your prissy stuck up attitude of vanity about your alleged intelligence should be crammed up where you sit on your pebble of a brain. And whether I do it or not is not important, as I am sure that someday somewhere someone will do this needed chore to you. I have a degree, I still work political activism in real life, and I spent nine years in the Army. I don't have to take your crap in real life, and in this forum, I can be more forthcoming in here about how I feel and in how I address you seeing how the Sally whose hind tit you sucked up to so deeply so long is nowhere near to burp and diaper your l'il brer self. And I will -- needless to say -- send Ward that E mail along with who you are and your attitude that there are way too many liberal people running the show in achedemia. Have a nice day.
Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.
I don't think much of Rolling Stone either, but you [JCHarris] seem to post a lot of articles from Fox News, a neocon and Bush administration propaganda mouthpiece that makes not only the Guardian and leMonde, but even Rolling Stone look like models of depth and balance.
Hypocracy goes hand and hand with his vanity. I actually agree with many things he has expressed on LP in the year after my unfair banning, but I can't stand a legend in his own mind of this sort. His main blindness is that he is the only one so deeply enamored with himself. He is not anyone special, and someday he will wake up to this fact. He put's his pants on like everyone else, and will live then die with the world not much noticing, like everyone else.
Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.
and the REAL, ferret, or is it HOWLIN or Dane or the reverend; all the same nazis wearing grunge, shows his true self ! Fuck you and your doppleganger Mental Ward Churchill !!
smelly cat.... and I thought you had changed...trough slurping bum living off a stipend for busting your ass sitting in a tree and then getting your lawyers to extort money for life from you.... Army? LMAO another Davy in the Navy BUM.
I knew from listening to you you had not changed, so spare me the guilt tripping. You are pregnant with bad intent, and it is you who has to prove your worth here, not me. I saw where you had posted on LP that you had been to the Nike Store on 5th Street and seen the incense cedar in front of the establishment. Why did do this? I never received a dime for tree sitting by the way. And the out of court settlement was not worth it when you consider the injuries I got from the fall. Spare me the spin about activists, their pay and motives. I assure you I have heard it all before and it doesn't invoke what you are trying to raise in me emotionally. Now, tell me, why are you articulating anti Semitic rhetoric in some of your posts in this account name? You are not anti Semetic. What is your game? You quit your previous account here, and came back here with an openly hidden account name that tells me plenty of your perception of how smart and savvy you take people as being here. You are more transparent then you think you are. And you are not generally trusted for damn good reasons. Keep up the crap, and you won't be here long. Settle down, relax and be a human being that treats and thinks of others like the regard you want others to show you, we all will get along just fine. Amusing posts and refreshingly more honest today. You have a nice evening now, you hear?
Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.
Is that a proposition, and do you have the balls to say that to either of our faces? I am Michael McCarthy, known locally as Ferret Mike. The nick is not just an account name. I used 'ferret' first on Free Republic, then LP. I have gone back to using my real life nick name here. But, you knew that, or should be able to figure out that were I not who I say I am, people whould have figured that out a long time ago. You can see a picture of me when you click on my account name in here, and it is the same picture you find at http://myspace.com/ferretmike, a site I recently started to use casually.
Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.
Really Howlin !!! Go oollect some more extortion money...and a forum? entertainment and diversion only ! The 60s really went out of the way to make you.
I expected the baiting. You really are quite predictable. Fix your typos, there is a function here to do this.
Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.
I think he's starting to warm to the place, don't you Minerva? We may not need pounch to come here after Goldi bans him in his new nick at LP after all. Or at least for now. I'm pretty much done with my intake interview. I grade him as USDA grade one and a half KoOk material. Very useable once we pull that nasty tar doll off of his little bunnie paws he kicked his way onto. ;-D
Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.
Brer's unstable. He never lasts long over here. He's following the same trajectory as last time. In a couple of more days most of his posts will be about how smart he is.
Bunch of internet bums ... grand jury --- opium den ! ~ byeltsin
When Badeye used this dodge he would just say "Do you own research (grin)", You are too wordy.
Bunch of internet bums ... grand jury --- opium den ! ~ byeltsin
True. I always picture him as having an applause .wav play on his box immediately after he posts. Being a legend in his own mind is a heavy burden, and he gets impatient when others don't hop to in recognizing the genius he wants others to believe he has.
Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.
His insecurities don't come out over on LP the way they do here. I don't know why. Maybe he is actually angry about the anti-Israel stance of the site.
Bunch of internet bums ... grand jury --- opium den ! ~ byeltsin
You two are SOOOO brave....and while Minerva is not the trough-slurping idiot as smelly cat, she is a vicious wench. Did I get a ping or was this just more groupie Brown Shirt shit tactics as expected from your ilk?
Looks like Bunnie butt needs a homepage picture. Think we can get this unruly sort to be social enough to put one up?
Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.
This is too phunny. Hi Minerva ... AND Morgana! Your pal, buckeroo posted on 2007-07-30 23:10:53 ET Reply Trace -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26. To: buckeroo (#25) Why were you banned anyway? Corn Flake Girl posted on 2007-07-30 23:14:59 ET Bucky misses you by the way. So much he is going after Corn Flake Girl crying for you and Morgana like a love sick rino.
Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.
Put up a homepage photo if you are so brave. Ask really really nice with pleases and thank yous, and next time I will ping your stuck to the tar baby ass, bubba. ;-D
Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.
Use my screen name Or end your presence on this website permanently. (How would you like ME to announce YOUR name? I could do it.) === The next violation will be your last. You won't get another warning. Goldi-Lox posted on 2007-06-17 20:20:56 ET ----------------------------------------------------- 29. To: Corn Flake Girl (#26) Why were you banned anyway? There is a dumbf**k retired NYC cop whom uses a handle, "Jethro Tull" on forum; he is Christine's secret admirer. That son-of a-bitch can't argue his way out of his own asshole yet, he is anti-semitic AND because of that deep issue within his singular brain cell has the HOTS for Sally. So, that SOB "Jethro Tull" gets on my case with his thug pals berating Goldie because of her religious beliefs. They failed on the challenge. So, I decided to play tit-for tat. I berated that stupid f**k ex-cop. And the spin continued. Jethro Tull is goddamned fascist PIG. He is my best friend (or so he thinks) in my new cloak over there. HAHAHAHA! buckeroo posted on 2007-07-30 23:25:31 ET Opps. I think the hair holding that particular sword of damocles is stretched to the limt and about to break.
Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.
Only to you. I am nice to all the non-kooks.
Bunch of internet bums ... grand jury --- opium den ! ~ byeltsin
#7. To: Zipporah (#3)
Some People Push Back: On the Justice of Roosting Chickens
Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under. -- H. L. Mencken
#8. To: Enderby (#7)
#9. To: Zipporah (#8)
..nor I.. it basically just is saying it's our foreign policy that is the issue.
Reich regime.
Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under. -- H. L. Mencken
#10. To: JCHarris (#4)
I personally know parents of children sent there and bullied by churchill...
#11. To: JCHarris (#4)
#12. To: Zipporah (#3)
#13. To: JCHarris, zipporah (#4)
one girl was forced to buy his cigarettes all semester, by the case, or he would not sign off on her course schedule.
#14. To: All, lodwick, ferret mike (#13)
#15. To: tom007. FM. Zip. all (#14)
Ward Churchill bump
#16. To: All (#13)
one girl was forced to buy his cigarettes all semester, by the case,
#17. To: tom007 (#12)
Ward was fired for pointing out the utter hypocricies of US foreign policy.
#18. To: JCHarris (#4)
#19. To: Ferret Mike (#18)
Ward Churchill has written around 20 books and 100 articles with approximately 12,000 footnotes and citations. The "investigative panel" found seven instances of alleged mis-conduct after going over his body of work for quite a long period of time.
#20. To: Ferret Mike (#18)
ard Churchill had accurate and documented info 99.9996% of the time whether you agree with his ideas or not. This investigation did not start untill after his well publicizied inflamatory remarks concerning 9-11. This is not about "integrity" its about silencing someone who says things that make people with small minds uncomfortable.
#21. To: JCHarris (#1)
Long long overdue.
#22. To: tom007 (#20)
This is not about "integrity" its about silencing someone who says things that make people with small minds uncomfortable.
#23. To: Ferret Mike (#18)
I'll wait until tomorrow to give you time to reply should you wish.
#24. To: lodwick (#15)
This is crap like I'd expect on fr or lp - just totally inane allegations, without any documentation of the charges, or inferences.
#25. To: RidinShotgun (#24)
Why can people NOT see that no one ever questioned Churchill's ethnicity or accused him of any supposed "crimes" throughout his career until after his comments regarding 911.
#26. To: lodwick (#25)
#27. To: JCHarris (#23)
(Edited)
#28. To: JCHarris, Ferret Mike (#23)
(Edited)
You evidently read only from the Guardian and leMonde and Rolling Stone. I educated myself on this creature , you do the same.
#29. To: Rupert_Pupkin (#28)
"I don't think much of Rolling Stone either, but you [JCHarris] seem to post a lot of articles from Fox News, a neocon and Bush administration propaganda mouthpiece that makes not only the Guardian and leMonde, but even Rolling Stone, look like models of depth and balance."
#30. To: Ferret Mike, christine, Zipporah, ALL (#27)
And I will -- needless to say -- send Ward that E mail along with who you are and your attitude that there are way too many liberal people running the show in achedemia.
#31. To: Ferret Mike (#29)
#32. To: JCHarris, Minerva (#31)
(Edited)
"smelly cat.... and I thought you had changed...trough slurping bum living off a stipend for busting your ass sitting in a tree and then getting your lawyers to extort money for life from you...."
#33. To: JCHarris (#30)
"Fuck you and your doppleganger Mental Ward Churchill !!"
#34. To: Ferret Mike (#32)
Keep up the crap, and you won't be here long.
#35. To: JCHarris (#34)
"Really Howlin !!! Go collect some more extortion money...and a forum? entertainment and diversion only ! The 60s really went out of the way to make you."
#36. To: Minerva (#34)
(Edited)
#37. To: Ferret Mike (#36)
#38. To: JCHarris (#23)
You evidently read only from the Guardian and leMonde and Rolling Stone. I educated myself on this creature , you do the same.
#39. To: Minerva (#37)
"Brer's unstable. He never lasts long over here. He's following the same trajectory as last time. In a couple of more days most of his posts will be about how smart he is."
#40. To: Ferret Mike (#39)
#41. To: Ferret Mike.Minerva (#39)
"Brer's unstable. He never lasts long over here. He's following the same trajectory as last time. In a couple of more days most of his posts will be about how smart he is."
#42. To: Minerva, JCHarris (#40)
#43. To: Minerva, Morgana le Fay (#40)
25. To: Corn Flake Girl, Morgana le Fay, Minerva (#4)
buckeroo
the bad,evil VET banned by the hand of Christine
Do I look like a Minerva to you? I don't see any owl in my posts here. And I am not Morgana either. Nice picture on your homepage there at 4UM anyway.
#44. To: JCHarris (#41)
"Did I get a ping or was this just more groupie Brown Shirt shit tactics as expected from your ilk?"
#45. To: Minerva, Jethro Tull (#40)
9. To: buckeroo (#2)
You have a choice to make:
#46. To: JCHarris (#41)
You two are SOOOO brave....and while Minerva is not the trough-slurping idiot as smelly cat, she is a vicious wench.
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