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9/11
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Title: History Channel to Air 9/11 Conspiracies Special
Source: History Channel
URL Source: [None]
Published: Aug 3, 2007
Author: History Channel
Post Date: 2007-08-03 10:31:04 by Ringo Blankenship
Keywords: None
Views: 12617
Comments: 246

UPCOMING SHOWS

Sunday, August 12 08:00 PM Monday, August13 12:00 PM

An Internet search for "9/11 conspiracy theories" yields nearly two million hits. Were the attacks on 9/11 perpetrated by the Bush Administration to advance its own interests? Could a government missile have hit the Pentagon? As outrageous as these ideas may sound, many people believe them. Why do these theories arise in the first place? An interview with James Miegs, Editor-in-Chief of Popular Mechanics, who refutes many of these theories. Watch as experts in the fields of aeronautics, engineering and the military put these theories to the test.

Rating: TVPG Running Time: 120 minutes

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 140.

#96. To: Ringo Blankenship (#0)

An Internet search for "9/11 conspiracy theories" yields nearly two million hits. Were the attacks on 9/11 perpetrated by the Bush Administration to advance its own interests? Could a government missile have hit the Pentagon? As outrageous as these ideas may sound, many people believe them. Why do these theories arise in the first place? An interview with James Miegs, Editor-in-Chief of Popular Mechanics, who refutes many of these theories. Watch as experts in the fields of aeronautics, engineering and the military put these theories to the test.

The purpose of this documentary is to make sure that wacko 9/11 conspiracy theories remain wacko 9/11 conspiracy theories.

And that's a good thing.

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-08-05   10:43:18 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Do you think they will show/analyze WTC 7 coming down?

Ringo Blankenship  posted on  2007-08-05   23:36:34 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Do you think they will show/analyze WTC 7 coming down?

It will probably get some attention but nowhere near enough to please the typical conspiracy theorist.

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-08-06   11:19:08 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

If they even show video of WTC 7 coming down, I will be greatly surprised.

Ringo Blankenship  posted on  2007-08-06   11:41:31 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

If they even show video of WTC 7 coming down, I will be greatly surprised.

One thing is for sure, the documentary won't change anything. The 9/11 "truth" movement has peaked.

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-08-06   11:45:01 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Yes, it might be risky to show/analyze the collapse of WTC 7 to a national audience. I doubt History Channel will be allowed to do so. They probably don't want a repeat of the Larry Silverstein "pull it" PBS fiasco.

Ringo Blankenship  posted on  2007-08-06   11:51:18 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

They probably don't want a repeat of the Larry Silverstein "pull it" PBS fiasco.

There was no "fiasco" involved in Silverstein making that comment.

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-08-06   11:57:38 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

There was no "fiasco" involved in Silverstein making that comment.

"You know we've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is, is pull it.' Uh, and they made that decision to pull and then we watched the building collapse."

---------------------------------------

Words have meaning.

Note the words, "decision to pull and then we watched the building collapse."

Clearly Silverstein was associating the decision to pull with the result, the collapse.

Note Siverstein did not say, they made that decision to pull and then the firemen were evacuated and then hours later we watched the building collapse.

"Uh, and they made that decision to pull and then we watched the building collapse."

honway  posted on  2007-08-06   15:02:44 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Note Siverstein did not say, they made that decision to pull and then the firemen were evacuated and then hours later we watched the building collapse.

Gee, why would the FDNY decide to blow up WTC 7? How on earth did the FDNY manage to rig explosives in WTC 7 to bring it down?

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-08-06   17:12:33 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Gee, why would the FDNY decide to blow up WTC 7? How on earth did the FDNY manage to rig explosives in WTC 7 to bring it down?

It is called design for demolition.

--------------------------------------------------------

http://www.istructe.org/thestructuralengineer/HC/Abstract.asp?PID=4626

Report: Design for Demolition

Why design for demolition?

In the past, structural engineers have paid scant attention to the problems associated with the eventual demolition of their structures. The likely reasons for this are, perhaps, firstly, that the lifespans of traditional buildings have been so long and uncertain that the problem of demolition has had little immediacy at the design stage. Secondly, the client who commissions the construction of a building is often not the client who commissions its demolition; economic considerations are thus sharply separated. Thirdly, techniques for the demolition of traditional gravity structures are reasonably straightforward, requiring little or no engineering input.

P. Waldron and D.I. Blockley

----------------------------------------------

My comments:

Any rational person would know that one day in the future the Towers would have to come down. No skyscraper has ever been built that will last forever.

A design taking into the consideration the absolute fact that one day the building will be coming down sounds plausible to me.

Consider a scenario where due to an earthquake,hurricane or a design flaw a building the size of the Towers or WTC7 in downtown Manhattan was in imminent danger of toppling.

Time would be critical.

You can make the case that a design which included the ability to rapidly prepare the building for demolition would be the responsible thing to do.

honway  posted on  2007-08-06   20:06:00 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

You can make the case that a design which included the ability to rapidly prepare the building for demolition would be the responsible thing to do.

Great!

Where's the evidence that the FDNY brought WTC 7 down?

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-08-06   20:24:48 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Evacuation of Collapse Zone

Fire chiefs cordoned off and evacuated area around Building 7 in preparation for its collapse. That decision was not made lightly, becasue it it meant suspending search and rescue operations in and around the northern end of Ground Zero. A detailed article published in Fire Engineering Magazine describes that decision: Be that as it may, FDNY chief officers surveyed 7 WTC and determined that it was in danger of collapse. Chief Frank Cruthers, now the incident commander, and Chief Frank Fellini, the operations commander, both agreed that a collapse zone had to be established. That meant firefighters in the area of the North Tower had to be evacuated. This took some time to accomplish because of terrain, communications, and the fierce determination with which the firefighters were searching. At 5:30 p.m., about 20 minutes after the last firefighters evacuated the collapse zone, 7 WTC collapsed. It was the third steel-frame high-rise in history to collapse from fire -- the other two had collapsed earlier that day. 1

Firehouse Magazine ran series of articles with interviews of fire chiefs. Fire Chief Joseph Pfeifer describes Chief Nigro ordering people away from the building: Yes, I watched 7. At one point, we were standing on the west side of West Street and Vesey. And I remember Chief Nigro coming back at that point saying I don't want anybody else killed and to take everybody two blocks up virtually to North End and Vesey, which is a good ways up. And we stood there and we watched 7 collapse." 2

Fire Chief Daniel Nigro describes his reasons for creating the collapse zone: The biggest decision we had to make on the first day was to clear the area and create a collapse zone around the severely damaged 7 World Trade Center, a 47-story building heavily involved in fire. A number of fire officers and companies assessed the damage to the building. The appraisals indicated that the building's integrity was in serious doubt. I issued the orders to pull back the firefighters and define the collapse zone. It was a critical decision; we could not lose any more firefighters. It took a lot of time to pull everyone out, given the emotionalism of the day, communications difficulties, and the collapse terrain. 3

Chief Frank Cruthers recalls Chief Nigro convening a meeting of fire chiefs on the subject of establishing a collapse zone. Of primary importance early on in the operation was the structural condition of 7 World Trade Center. Assistant Chief Frank Fellini had been approached by several chiefs who were concerned about its stability. It had been heavily damaged in the collapse and was well-involved in fire. Chief Fellini had looked at it and described to us some damage to its south side; he felt that structural components of the building had been compromised. So when Chief Dan Nigro arrived at the command post, he convened a meeting of staff chiefs, and this was a major subject of the meeting. We were all in accord about the danger of 7 WTC, and we all agreed that it was not too conservative of a decision to establish a collapse zone for that building, move the firefighters out of the collapse area, and maintain that strategy. 4

Professional photographer Tom Franklin provides some detail about the timing of the evacuation: It was about 4 p.m., and they were anticipating Seven World Trade Center collapsing. The firemen were leaving en masse. 5 It was 4:45 p.m., and all the firemen and rescue workers were evacuating Ground Zero after word came that a third building -- WTC 7 -- was ready to fall. 6

Mark Jacobson, reporter, New York Magazine described being surprised by a fireman's certainty that the skyscraper would come down: Hours later, I sat down beside another, impossibly weary firefighter. ... Then, almost as a non sequitur, the fireman indicated the building in front of us, maybe 400 yards away. 'That building is coming down,' he said with a drained casualness. 'Really?' I asked. At 47 stories, it would be a skyscraper in most cities, centerpiece of the horizon. But in New York, it was nothing but a nondescript box with fire coming out of the windows. 'When?' 'Tonight ... Maybe tomorrow morning.' This was around 5:15 p.m. I know because five minutes later, at 5:20, the building, 7 World Trade Center, crumbled. 7

Indira Singh, a volunteer EMT, describes hearing rumors that the building would be brought down: What happened with that particular triage site is that pretty soon after noon, after midday on 9/11, we had to evacuate that because they told us Building 7 was coming down. ... I do believe that they brought Building 7 down because I heard that they were going to bring it down because it was unstable, because of the collateral damage. ... By noon or one o'clock they told us we had to move from that triage site up to Pace University, a little further away, because Building 7 was gonna come down or being brought down. ... There was another panic around four o'clock because they were bringing the building down and people seemed to know this ahead of time, so people were panicking again and running. 8

Battalion Fire Chief John Norman describes the size of the collapse zone -- 600 feet in radius: After we found Chief Ganci, in addition to recon, I was detailed to make sure the collapse zone for 7 WTC had been set up and was being maintained. The sector commanders were trying to clear out of that area. We expected it to fall to the south, into the areas we were searching. 9 Now we're still worried about 7. We have guys trying to make their way up into the pile, and they're telling us that 7 is going to fall down - and that was one of the directions from the command post, to make sure we clear the collapse zone from 7 and this is a 600-foot-tall building, so we had to clear a 600-foot radius from that building. 10

Deputy Fire Chief Nick Visconti describes resistance to the evacuation by firefighters who wanted to fight the fires in Building 7: Now, World Trade Center 7 was burning and I was thinking to myself, how come they're not trying to put this fire out? ... At some point, Frank Fellini said, now we've got hundreds of guys out there, hundreds and hundreds, and that's on the West Street side alone. He said to me, Nick, you've got to get those people out of there. I thought to myself, out of where? Frank, what do you want, Chief? He answered, 7 World Trade Center, imminent collapse, we've got to get those people out of there. ... There were a couple of chiefs out there who I knew and I called them individually. I said to them, listen, start backing those people out, we need them back up to the command post. While this was going on, I saw individual company officers. I was whistling, Captain, bring your guys this way. I was getting some resistance. The common thing was, hey, we've still got people here, we don't want to leave. I explained to them that we were worried about 7, that it was going to come down and we didn't want to get anybody trapped in the collapse. One comment was, oh, that building is never coming down, that didn't get hit by a plane, why isn't somebody in there putting the fire out? A lot of comments, a bit of resistance, understandable resistance. 11 References

1. World Trade Center Disaster: Initial Response, Fire Engineering, 9/2002
2. WTC: This Is Their Story, http://firehouse.com, 4/2002
3. Report from the Chief of Department, Fire Engineering, 9/2002
4. Postcollapse Command, Fire Engineering, 9/2002
5. Newseum, Running Toward Danger, 2002, page 204
6. The After-Life of a Photo that Touched a Nation, Columbia Journalism Review, 3/1/2002
7. The Ground Zero Grassy Knoll, New York Magazine, 3/27/2006
8. Interview with Indira Singh. 'Ground Zero 911, Blueprint for Terror, Part One', Guns & Butteer, 4/27/2005
9. Search and Rescue Operations, Fire Engineering, 10/2002
10. WTC: This Is Their Story, http://Firehouse.com, 5/2002
11. WTC: This Is Their Story, http://Firehouse.com, 8/2002

honway  posted on  2007-08-06   20:42:22 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

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