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Editorial
See other Editorial Articles

Title: Are doom & gloomers ever right?
Source: Mister Clean
URL Source: [None]
Published: Aug 9, 2007
Author: Mister Clean
Post Date: 2007-08-09 10:09:25 by Mister Clean
Keywords: economic collapse, terrorism, global warming
Views: 2195
Comments: 213

Are doom & gloomers ever right in their numerous and freqent predictions of disaster?

I'm not simply talking about the garden variety doom & gloomers who are constantly predicting a massive economic collapse or continually warning about the evil plans of the New World Order. I also include the al-Qaeda fearmongers who are constantly predicting nuclear Jihad in America. I'm also talking about the global warming alarmists who predict that the east coast of the US will eventually be submerged in a major flood.

These groups of doom & gloomers have different agendas for sure but they're basically the same in their fearmongering and pessimissm. It's as if they want a disaster to happen so they can screech "I told you so!"

Fortunately, these prophets of disaster are as wrong in their predictions as they are negative and pessimistic.

I really wonder why America is full of these types of people.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 199.

#1. To: Mister Clean (#0)

Yes. We nailed the Iraqi mess, didn't we. Not to mention the disaster that is BUSH, open immigration, free trade and the overall fraud that is the checked pant Republican party.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2007-08-09   10:19:45 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Jethro Tull (#1)

Yes. We nailed the Iraqi mess, didn't we. Not to mention the disaster that is BUSH.

I wouldn't characterize those who predicted trouble in Iraq as "doom & gloomers." A lot of military guys who are not miserable pessimists knew Iraq was going to go bad and they are certainly not the same as those who think a hot summer is a sign of global warming.

I'm referring to those who are CONSTANTLY predicting some horrendous disaster; economic collapse, terrorism, global warming, peak oil, New World Order... and so on.

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-08-09   10:27:18 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Mister Clean (#2)

Ah…..think of the New World Order as the destruction of this nation via perpetual war, open borders, a devalued dollar, multiculturalism, hate speech legislation and a growing dependency on communist China and other “trade partners.” In that limited respect alone we REALISTS nailed it.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2007-08-09   10:34:40 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Jethro Tull (#5)

Ah…..think of the New World Order as the destruction of this nation via perpetual war, open borders, a devalued dollar, multiculturalism, hate speech legislation and a growing dependency on communist China and other “trade partners.”

The New World Order is the name given to the complex realities of globalization by those who don't understand it.

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-08-09   10:41:08 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Mister Clean (#9)

The New World Order is the name given to the complex realities of globalization by those who don't understand it.

Oh F***ing please!... What a load of crap. If the "complex realities of globalization" involve selling out our sovereignity, thrashing our rights, socializing our nation and lowering our standard of living you can cram them up your ass...

Since when do the "complex realities of globalization" need to involve weakening our patent system? Since when do they need to involve "norming" our firearms ownership to a world ban standard? Since when does it need to involve enslaving us to debt? Since when does it need to involve lopsided trade wherein we're hamstrung by tighter regulation, taxes, and labor laws? Since when does it need to involve emission treaties that would deny us the very innovations that would make it a breeze for us to comply... Ad infinitum...

Dude, get a grip, or pass around some of what your smoking...

Axenolith  posted on  2007-08-09   10:52:13 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Axenolith (#16)

Since when do they need to involve "norming" our firearms ownership to a world ban standard?

Firearms have not been banned in America.

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-08-09   10:56:51 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Mister Clean (#20)

Never stated they have been, did you decide that needed to be stated merely to imply I had? Now, the desire is surely there, and the elitists of the world carp and bemoan our heavy ownership to no end, of that, there is no doubt. And they make no bones about its eventuality, though I'm ready to insure there's a few less of them after they try...

Axenolith  posted on  2007-08-09   11:03:23 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Axenolith (#26)

Never stated they have been, did you decide that needed to be stated merely to imply I had?

You said that US gun laws are "norming" to a "world ban standard."

That has not happened.

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-08-09   11:11:18 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: Mister Clean (#31)

You said that US gun laws are "norming" to a "world ban standard."

"Since when do they need to involve "norming" our firearms ownership to a world ban standard?"

Dude, parse that statement and compare it to the quoted...

Now, in retrospect, I'll agree that, yes, they are norming. Can I no longer get a 10+ round mag in CA? Yes. Is the 1968 gun control act modeled after the National Socialists of Germanys? Yes.

If you don't think firearms ownership has gotten more difficult over time then you're hopeless. And BTW, it hasn't done what it was touted to do either...

Axenolith  posted on  2007-08-09   11:21:09 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Axenolith (#37)

Now, in retrospect, I'll agree that, yes, they are norming. Can I no longer get a 10+ round mag in CA? Yes. Is the 1968 gun control act modeled after the National Socialists of Germanys? Yes.

Big freaking deal.

You think you can fight the New World Order with a 10+ round mag?

Ha!

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-08-09   11:25:10 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: Mister Clean (#39)

Big freaking deal.

You think you can fight the New World Order with a 10+ round mag?

Ha!

Um, if you look at the track record of independance movements and guerilla actions you'd note that governments, in the past, have seldom come out on top.

Also, I don't need to win myself, I would merely need to sell myself dearly. Cowards see long odds and fold to tyranny, freedom lovers fight against long odds, even when there is low hope of winning.

BTW, I thought you were of the opinion that the NWO is fictional???

Axenolith  posted on  2007-08-09   11:39:33 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: Axenolith (#50)

Um, if you look at the track record of independance movements and guerilla actions you'd note that governments, in the past, have seldom come out on top.

If you think a 10+ mag will protect yourself from mean ole Uncle Sam and his NWO buddies, you're crazy.

Uncle Sam has got more guns than you could ever dream of. Besides, Americans are consumers, not guerrilla fighters.

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-08-09   11:42:52 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: Mister Clean (#53)

If you think a 10+ mag will protect yourself from mean ole Uncle Sam and his NWO buddies, you're crazy.

How come the ragtag Iraqi militias are driving out Uncle Sam?

Ringo Blankenship  posted on  2007-08-09   11:46:06 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: Ringo Blankenship (#58)

How come the ragtag Iraqi militias are driving out Uncle Sam?

Because the US government is not fighting to conquer.

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-08-09   11:50:59 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#69. To: Mister Clean (#60)

Because the US government is not fighting to conquer.

How many would they have to kill before you considered it "fighting to conquer"?

SmokinOPs  posted on  2007-08-09   12:05:24 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#71. To: SmokinOPs (#69)

How many would they have to kill before you considered it "fighting to conquer"?

It's not about numbers, it's about goals and tactics.

The US fought to conquer Germany and Japan.

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-08-09   12:07:12 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: Mister Clean (#71)

It's not about numbers, it's about goals and tactics.

The US fought to conquer Germany and Japan.

Now now, nuking does not count.

You were talking about guns, not atomic bombs. Powerful Western militaries have trouble on the battlefield (witness the Vietnam War, Iraq, Hezbollah vs. Israel, etc.).

Ringo Blankenship  posted on  2007-08-09   12:14:24 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#78. To: Ringo Blankenship (#74)

You were talking about guns, not atomic bombs.

The point is that the US is not "winning" in Iraq because the war is not being waged to conquer Iraq. The fact that insurgents have guns is not the reason there is no "victory" for the US.

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-08-09   12:23:31 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#90. To: Mister Clean (#78)

The point is that the US is not "winning" in Iraq because the war is not being waged to conquer Iraq. The fact that insurgents have guns is not the reason there is no "victory" for the US.

Will counts for a lot, and the Iraqis have a very strong will to rid their country of invaders.

Diana  posted on  2007-08-09   14:36:28 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#106. To: Diana (#90)

Will counts for a lot, and the Iraqis have a very strong will to rid their country of invaders.

Whatever. I really don't care about the Iraq fiasco anymore.

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-08-09   16:15:54 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#108. To: Mister Clean (#106)

I really don't care about the Iraq fiasco anymore

In that you do mirror the general zeitgeist around the country, to simply be done with that whole mess, wash our hands of the whole thing and pretend things will ever go back to what they were before the Invasion and Occupation.

swarthyguy  posted on  2007-08-09   16:21:36 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#110. To: swarthyguy (#108)

In that you do mirror the general zeitgeist around the country, to simply be done with that whole mess, wash our hands of the whole thing and pretend things will ever go back to what they were before the Invasion and Occupation.

I don't know about the rest of the country but I've concluded it is a waste of my precious time to care about the Iraq fiasco since there is nothing I can do about it.

Perhaps if the day comes where I am directly affected, I'll care again.

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-08-09   16:24:32 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#128. To: Mister Clean (#110)

I don't know about the rest of the country but I've concluded it is a waste of my precious time to care about the Iraq fiasco since there is nothing I can do about it.

Perhaps if the day comes where I am directly affected, I'll care again.

By that logic, Germans shouldn't have cared about the evils that were being done in their name by the Nazi government.

aristeides  posted on  2007-08-09   16:51:38 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#130. To: aristeides (#128)

By that logic, Germans shouldn't have cared about the evils that were being done in their name by the Nazi government.

I'm going to guess that you care sooooooooooooooooo much about what's happening in Iraq.

Now, tell me what all your caring has accomplished.

(Besides making you feel good about yourself)

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-08-09   16:54:25 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#132. To: Mister Clean (#130)

By that logic, Germans shouldn't have cared about the evils that were being done in their name by the Nazi government.

I take your posting to indicate that you agree with my statement above, and think Germans shouldn't have cared.

If you don't see what's wrong with thinking Germans shouldn't have cared, there really isn't much I can say to the likes of you.

aristeides  posted on  2007-08-09   17:03:48 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#134. To: aristeides (#132)

I take your posting to indicate that you agree with my statement above, and think Germans shouldn't have cared.

If you don't see what's wrong with thinking Germans shouldn't have cared, there really isn't much I can say to the likes of you.

I want to know what all of your caring has accomplished, particularly as far as Iraq goes.

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-08-09   17:06:43 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#152. To: Mister Clean (#134)

I want to know what all of your caring has accomplished, particularly as far as Iraq goes.

It's a moral issue of not wanting evil things to be done in your name.

Also some people are truly bothered when suffering is being inflicted on people.

Diana  posted on  2007-08-09   17:40:21 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#162. To: Diana (#152)

It's a moral issue of not wanting evil things to be done in your name.

That doesn't change my point that all the caring in the world about the Iraq fiasco has led to nothing.

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-08-09   17:56:51 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#179. To: Mister Clean (#162)

That doesn't change my point that all the caring in the world about the Iraq fiasco has led to nothing.

Well then you have to chalk it up to this being an imperfect world, and we are all flawed.

Also it's possible that the Iraqi situation could be even worse at this point if not for the helpful actions of certain people, though that's something we'll never know.

Diana  posted on  2007-08-09   18:14:16 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#183. To: Diana (#179)

Also it's possible that the Iraqi situation could be even worse at this point if not for the helpful actions of certain people, though that's something we'll never know.

Two great books to read about Iraq are "Imperial Life in the Emerald City" and "Fiasco."

All along the way there were smart people who knew when bad decisions were being made. They were ignored. These smart people had great ideas. They were ignored.

Every possible mistake that could have been made was made. This is one case where stupidity, incompetence and worse have won.

If the smart people inside the system couldn't do anything, there's nothing that I, being completely outside the system, can do and that's why I don't care about it anymore.

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-08-09   18:22:06 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#191. To: Mister Clean (#183)

Every possible mistake that could have been made was made. This is one case where stupidity, incompetence and worse have won.

they weren't smart people. from the outset they lied about the reasons for invading Iraq. this is the blowback. those of us who were against it from the getgo were smarter than your "smart people within the system." maybe you ought to do some study of unrevisionist history of wars.

christine  posted on  2007-08-09   20:07:56 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#196. To: christine (#191)

they weren't smart people. from the outset they lied about the reasons for invading Iraq. this is the blowback. those of us who were against it from the getgo were smarter than your "smart people within the system." maybe you ought to do some study of unrevisionist history of wars.

You're not smarter than Gen. Anthony Zinni, for example.

He was on the inside, raising red flags and he was ignored.

If you think EVERYBODY in government is the same you're making a mistake.

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-08-09   20:50:35 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#198. To: Mister Clean (#196)

By the time Zinni started raising red flags, he was only sort of on the inside, and he had ceased even to be that months before we attacked Iraq. He retired from the Marine Corps in 2000, and his last connection with the government was apparently his serving as a special envoy to the Middle East in 2002. I suspect he owed that last appointment to Colin Powell.

aristeides  posted on  2007-08-09   22:47:31 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#199. To: aristeides (#198)

By the time Zinni started raising red flags, he was only sort of on the inside, and he had ceased even to be that months before we attacked Iraq. He retired from the Marine Corps in 2000, and his last connection with the government was apparently his serving as a special envoy to the Middle East in 2002. I suspect he owed that last appointment to Colin Powell.

He wasn't the only one. "Fiasco" chronicles several others who raised red flags.

Gen. Jay Garner was another well known military man who raised red flags, particularly about the CPA's desire to dissolve the Iraqi military.

Incompetence prevailed and continues to prevail. To hell with the morons running the show, Iraq is not my problem.

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-08-10   9:22:27 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


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