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Title: Tipping Point
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URL Source: http://www.conspiracypenpal.com/columns/tipping.htm
Published: Aug 23, 2007
Author: Edgar J. Steele
Post Date: 2007-08-23 09:52:10 by christine
Keywords: None
Views: 1095
Comments: 89
My name is Edgar J. Steele. I believe that America, finally, has achieved critical mass and simultaneously has reached or is approaching her "tipping point" regarding a great many issues. Tipping points inherently are deceptive. Overtly, one perceives a sudden, dramatic shift, often without notice. Unlike schoolyard teeter-totters, however, the required force usually is not applied all at once. Let me give you a personal example. When I was younger and even more foolish than today, I smoked cigarettes. "Everybody did it," as they say, in those days. Gradually, my disgust with the habit outgrew the coolness that I imagined cigarettes imparted, Bogart-like, to my image, but smoking had become an ingrained, habituated ritual and physical addiction. Incidentally, most people tend to overlook the ritualistic significance of handling cigarettes, which is why, I believe, most find it so difficult to quit smoking. The physical nicotine addiction, which is surmounted in about three days, is the least of it. For years, I would quit, then start again ... and again ... and again. Sound familiar? Toward the end of my addiction, I even changed brands to one that I didn't like at all ("Advantage," which was like smoking old, rolled-up newspaper compared to my beloved/hated charcoal-filter Tareytons). Yet, I continued to put them away, two packs or more, each and every day. I remember clearly the moment I reached my cigarette tipping point: I was navigating a troublesome 5-way intersection in Oakland, California during rush hour, signaling, looking around, dodging other cars, shifting gears, turning the wheel and juggling a cigarette that slipped from my fingers. Smokers are all-too-familiar with this situation, source of countless burnt spots in clothing, upholstery, carpentry and assorted body parts. Once through that intersection without killing anybody, I snagged up the smoldering butt. Looking at what had become my very last cigarette with the sort of disgust so many of us feel concerning George Bush these days, I stubbed it out in the overflowing ashtray. I haven't had a cigarette in nearly 40 years. Not once, in all that time, have I wanted one. Other smokers began to challenge me enviously, then, as it became clear that I was well clear, asking how I had managed to quit so easily - so effortlessly. I tried to tell them about my years of growing disgust, but could not point to any single thing, not even that brief moment in traffic when I reached my tipping point, that helped them out of their habit. Others thought that I was hiding some powerful secret. To them, I quit overnight. I knew better. I simply had reached the point where my desire not to smoke had overtaken my desire to smoke and, just like that, overtly manifested what had been building for years. To me, it was a long, drawn-out process, fraught with countless false starts and too much effort to describe. To them, I had captured lightning in a bottle. Almost always, tipping points are like my conversion from smoker to non-smoker. Things seem so normal, so unchanging, for so long, despite nagging warnings and recurrent little signs to the contrary. Suddenly, a tipping point is reached and lasting change occurs. A stock market crashes. A currency hyper inflates. Economic depression befalls entire nations. World War suddenly erupts from some small regional conflict. Infection becomes epidemic. History is replete with examples. Only the Reality of Change Never Changes In fact, if there is one thing that history should teach us, it is that the status quo - always - is only temporary. Why should today be any different? Why should America escape the fate of every empire that has fallen before her time? The signs of imminent change are everywhere today and seem, just recently, to have accelerated, both in frequency and in number. Individually, the tipping points heaving into view are manageable. Problem is, the accretion of imminent tipping points worldwide and, particularly, in America is mind boggling: America's war effort in Iraq is on the verge of total collapse, despite media reports to the contrary. Yet we are about to invade Iran? The Russian Bear once again has emerged, is heavily patrolling outside its own borders with nuclear-armed bombers and ships and has strongly warned both Israel and America not to interfere in Iran. The mortgage market is on the verge of total collapse, as indicated by the sudden failure of not-so-subprime lenders in addition to a raft of lower-rung mortgage companies. Yet, that sea of Adjustable Rate Mortgages has only just begun to ratchet up from their teaser rates. Home foreclosures have doubled in the past year alone (and foreclosures have been posting new annual records for a while now). Because most money market accounts and a great many financial derivatives are backed solely by home mortgages, packaged in different ways and with impressive-sounding names, people and institutions are dropping commercial paper like hot potatoes. Now that all laws against banking usury have been suspended, just wait until enough Americans see their credit card balances being charged interest at the rate of 36% for being a day late with a single payment or, perhaps, merely going over their limit a few dollars. Bankruptcy no longer is an option for most Americans, due to changes in the law secretly emplaced by Congress doing the bidding of the banking industry. This will be interesting as we find out if they intend to reinstitute debtors' prisons. At least, it will be a way to get a meal ("Please, sir, may I have some more porridge?") Derivatives in general and hedge funds, in particular, are on the verge of total collapse, just as so many hedge funds already quietly have been subsumed by their own industry and government (but, I repeat myself). The stock market should have crashed long ago and shows signs now of growing beyond the control, even, of the plunge protection team composed of banking industry and government people (but, again I repeat myself). The Choice: Stock Market Crash or Stock Market Crash Many say that interest rates must increase, else the dollar will disappear into hyperinflation, with the market crashing into nonsensical dollar values. If interest rates are increased, however, the resultant increased cost of doing business alone will crash the market. Given how far the market has been stretched by the outrageously expansionary monetary policies of ex-Federal Reserve Chairman "Easy Al" Greenspan and, now, "WhirlyBen" Bernanke, a crash, whether controlled or in a rush, is unavoidable. Nothing - nothing - can save the stock market now. Remember that financial markets can crash upwards, too. It just requires a measuring currency that devalues faster than the market appreciates. In fact, America's stock market has been crashing upwards for years, already. The Lesson of History is Lost on Everyone As always, history would be instructive if we would but pay attention. Not just those who fail to study history are doomed to repeat it, as America's current plight has been experienced, time and again, by each and every single empire since the dawn of civilization. Similarly, if one would but see, the path ahead clearly is set out by the recorded experience of those past empires. It isn't pretty. Let's focus on just one such experience, that of post-WWI Germany. Not the same, you say? Germany was a defeated nation, saddled with crushing war reparation payments and overseen by hostile, foreign interests, after all. Fair enough objection. Let's dispel it. The Usual Suspects ... Again Time does not allow full development of the concept in this space, but suffice to say that America, too, is a defeated nation (subject of the slow, rolling coup that broke into the open with the assassination of JFK) and now is overseen by hostile, foreign interests in the form of the usual suspects: the globalists ... central bankers ... some might even say Jews. And that is just the beginning of the similarities. Now, you stop right there! I saw that grimace cross your face. I heard you mutter in disgust, "Just another anti-Semitic screed." Perhaps. Perhaps not. Try to keep an open mind, because it is impossible to pin the tail on this donkey with euphemisms like "central bankers" or, even, "Zionists." Discussing America's impending disaster without using the J-word is like trying to describe the phenomenon of Elvis impersonators without using the E-word. In an absurd mixture of metaphor and mostly just for fun, visit http://www.jewishelvis.com and listen to Jelvis sing "Blue Suede Yarmulke." Ahem ... now, seriously, one absolutely must understand the tribal and clannish Jewish mentality that places race ahead of country, always in fear of being displaced, always needing total control, always creating its own opposition and persecution and always ... always overreaching, thereby leading to ejection or destruction. Just as Germany nearly a century ago was saddled with Jewish bankers and governmental overseers following the Versailles Treaty, so is America governed today. The import of this fact goes well beyond coincidence. America's Federal Reserve Bank is foreign owned (primarily Jewish), just as was post-WWI Germany's Reichsbank. America's government thoroughly is in the hands of Jewish interests, just as was post-WWI Germany's. America's media today is entirely owned and run by Jewish interests and is used primarily as a tool of social engineering via propaganda, just like post-WWI Germany. America today is saddled with crushing financial obligations she cannot meet, both at home and abroad. Before much longer, every single dollar taken in via tax collections will be spent merely on government interest payments. America quite literally never can repay her debts. Just like Germany nearly a century ago. Just like Germany of the 1920s, America has begun to create money infinitely and very recently has made clear her intent to continue to do so. If you seriously doubt any one of the foregoing propositions, then you simply haven't been paying attention and you need to do some fundamental spadework, which the Internet makes so easy. Incidentally, if you disbelieve anything I just have told you and don't do this basic research, if only in an attempt to discredit me, then you are a fool and I wash my hands of you. Economic Tipping Points That's the background. Now, here's the setup: Germany's Reichsbank literally poured money into the German economy, starting in 1914 and then accelerating in earnest in 1919, both directly and by letting all true German street banks create money through lending and fractional-reserve banking. Just like America today. The German government was run for the internationalist purposes of its Jewish masters, leading to an inflationary economy, decreasing morality and so many other indicia of America today. So much money was created that the amount in foreign hands lent itself to international speculative short selling of the Mark. Just like America today. Germany's tipping point came when a critical mass of the Mark enabled the foreign speculation. The speculative short selling, soon to begin with American dollars, marked the beginning of Germany's inexorable march into hyperinflation. Between 1914 and 1919, the value of the German mark versus the American dollar fell from 4:1 to 8:1 (25 cents to about 12 cents), a decline of 50% in just five years. Now, consider the fact that, between 2002 and 2006, also a span of just five years, the American dollar fell 50%, as well, during which time average American wages actually fell slightly in unadjusted dollars (thus, a halving of the American standard of living, but for the real estate bubble that enabled Americans to use home equity as a source of funds). It was at just the point America finds herself today that Germany reached her economic tipping point: the Reichsbank opened the monetary floodgates (just as the Fed did within the past week) and the Mark began to spiral out of control into hyperinflation. One year later, during 1920, the Mark was worth but 2 cents (50:1). In 1921, the Mark brought slightly more than one penny (100:1). In 1922, true hyperinflation set in and it took 1000 Marks to buy a single American dollar. In 1923, with the end in sight, the ratio quickly soared from 18,000:1 to 4 trillion Marks to 1 dollar! Gold: $300 Trillion per Ounce? From tipping point to oblivion in just four years. If the parallel holds true, then gold should be worth $3,000 per ounce later in 2008, $75,000 in 2009, $750,000 in 2010 and $300 trillion per ounce sometime in 2012. Could this really happen in America? Yes, though probably not so dramatically. Once a tipping point is reached, don't forget, things can appear to change almost overnight. But, consider merely the effect of the dollar falling by half yet again during the next few years - and I absolutely guarantee you that the decline will be far greater than half. As I first foresaw long ago (and, in truth, wrote Defensive Racism to sound the warning), the coming economic debacle will make the Great Depression look like a church picnic and cause us to start numbering our economic depressions, just as we now do for widespread warfare. At the time, many called me a loon for predicting that Depression II was coming. Today, the possibility is openly discussed on CNBC, of all places. In the process, the American middle class will be eliminated, just as last century in Germany: "Annuities, pensions, proceeds of insurance policies, savings accounts in the banks, income from bonds and mortgages - every form of revenue which had been arranged for at some time in the past, and which often represented the economy, foresight, and personal planning of many years - now turned to nothing. The middle class was pauperized and demoralized." ("A History of the Modern World," Palmer, et al., 9th Ed., 2002) At about the time of Germany's tipping point, one obscure German observer noted that, "The government calmly goes on printing these scraps of paper because, if it stopped, that would be the end of the government. Because once the printing presses stopped - and that is the prerequisite for the stabilization of the mark - the swindle would at once be brought to light. Believe me, our misery will increase. The scoundrel will get by. The reason: because the State itself has become the biggest swindler and crook. A robbers' state!? If the horrified people notice that they can starve on billions, they must arrive at this conclusion: we will no longer submit to a State which is built on the swindling idea of the majority. We want a dictatorship." Years later, that obscure observer rose to international acclaim, even being named Time Magazine's 1938 Man of the Year, when his foresight was proven true. His name? Adolf Hitler. Happen to know of anybody who, in recent years, has remarked repeatedly about America needing a dictator? What's the Point of Having a Police State if You Don't Use It? Do you think our masters don't pay attention to history? Do you think they aren't readying the framework to restrain the great American masses who can be expected to rise up, just as did the Germans, nearly a century ago? If not, then you tell me just what all this Patriot Act and American police state hooha is for, then. It is not to protect you and me. It is to protect them from you and me. How best to prevent having a truly effective dictator like Hitler rise up on behalf of the common man? Why - have your own stooge dictator already in place, of course. How on earth do you think that somebody as patently stupid as George Bush possibly could have attained the Presidency? Bush may think he is the man and I see a great many Internet commentators openly fearing his canceling the upcoming election, but I see no danger of that happening. Only stooges vetted by AIPAC and the ADL are allowed to vie for the American Presidency. Therefore, they can give us regular elections, thereby providing the illusion of democracy, while all the time maintaining a firm grip on the levers of power. Bush is just a place marker stooge, readily interchangeable with Clinton, Obama, Giuliani, Romney and so many others who already have sold their souls to Israel for their place at the trough. How else do you think we so thoroughly could have tossed out the Republican congressional miscreants during the last mid-term election, thinking we would get change, only to get a Democrat-controlled House and Senate that both go against predominant American stated desires even more than their Republican predecessors? Obviously, they are responding to someone other than the electorate! Will there be world war? Of course. They must have something to distract us and to blame for our coming economic misfortune. When? Soon. Very soon. Of course, that is just another historical profit opportunity for the international banking interests who truly own and run America as they get yet another opportunity to sell and lend to both sides at once, then pick up the pieces afterward at pennies on the dollar. The American Tipping Point Economic reports of just the past couple of weeks demonstrate that a critical mass has been attained. I believe that America now has reached her economic tipping point and, from the perspective of history written a hundred years from now, seemingly overnight the American landscape will be seen to have changed forever. "But things look so normal," you may protest. Yes, but I predict that America in a year or two will look very different. There is No Hope Do not look to the system for any sort of meaningful change. Voting is rigged. Everything is rigged. Of the current announced Presidential candidates, only one would effect meaningful change: Ron Paul. I hesitate to endorse the man because I so like him. I firmly believe that, if the current media disinformation campaign fails and Ron Paul actually becomes a leading contender, they simply will kill him as they have so many before (Huey Long and Robert Kennedy come to mind). If elected and he lives through to his inauguration and refuses to knuckle under, they simply will kill him then, just as they did JFK. Make no mistake - Ron Paul would make a great President, but it simply ain't gonna happen, folks. But, he says he wants the job, so he's got my vote, regardless. Possibilities There are possibilities, but none of them are pretty. Perhaps America will get nuked into submission by a world tired of being bullied at every turn. Once backed by gold, then by oil, the dollar today is backed by America's nuclear arsenal. Do what we say and use the dollar to transact international business or we will bomb you into rubble. Just ask Iraq. A nuclear exchange, finally, will pull America's trump card. Perhaps a popular revolt will take hold and make meaningful inroads, despite the militarization of local police forces. This latter possibility will require our reaching a political tipping point, marked by government troops machine gunning citizens wholesale in the streets. From our perspective how much longer do we have before we can expect significant overt change? If this were being televised, I would look at my watch to drive home the point. Maybe weeks. Maybe months. Maybe even a year or two more, but that is pushing it. Certainly, by 2012 you will not recognize America, if she exists at all by then. So there you have it. We're doomed. The only question is whether our current masters will be able to hold on through the coming economic tsunami about to sweep over America and the rest of the world. I'm betting they won't. After all, we know where they live. Mark my words well: one day we will come for them, drag them out and line them up against a wall - after a fair trial, of course. New America. An idea whose time has come. My name is Edgar J. Steele. Thanks for listening. Please visit my web site, http://www.ConspiracyPenPal.com, for other messages just like this one. -ed
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#33. To: aristeides (#30)
If you find insults to be impressive or useful, you are wrong. As a matter of fact Dr. Schacht and I had mutual friends/family and I can assure he at no time ever entertained any illusions such as you espouse.
If you had read as much of Dr. Goebbels as I have, you might recognize the similarity of the ideas. Forgive me for not seeing what the relevance of the opinions of Dr. Schacht is here. I do not think anyone had mentioned him in this thread. I know I didn't.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
The state of Texas StrawPoll is September 1st.
Perhaps Dr. Goebbels represents something of interest to you, however I do not recall him being involved in German economic affairs, prior, during or after WW2. In fact I do not recall him as being visible during WW1. Perhaps you could bolster your opinion if you were to restrict yourself to the time period you seem to have formed opinions counter to history.
The statement I associated with Dr. Goebbels's ideas is not, as far as I can see, restricted to the period of World War One. But that does not stop the statement from being extremely similar to that man's thought.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
Of course. It more accurately allows them to do things just slightly differently than was done in the past to make their "success" more sure. But this really isn't about the Bush regime, as ES pointed out. It really doesn't make one iota of difference who the new puppet is (save for RP - but Steele is right when he says that should RP garner enough support to actually win he'll only go down as another JFK) they all respond to their master(s). What I find more troubling is that almost NO ONE puts any serious study into the Scriptures, coupled with a serious study of history. When the 2 are combined it clearly paints the picture that has nearly everyone baffled today. It shows the true "elite", the "puppetmasters". The #1 "puppetmaster" in the world is the pope, he controls the Rothschilds and the rest. Practically every nation on earth has been pledged to the papacy. The Beast is in motion, and the papacy does the bidding of the Beast. To very sharp historians, it is all laid out very clearly in Daniel 7... IF the majority of people could make this distinction, THEN perhaps we could "make a difference"... Revelation says it won't happen, and I tend to believe it.
99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name. Long Live the Queen ... ahem, how did she die ???
"The mighty are only mighty because we are on our knees. Let us rise!" --Camille Desmoulins
Except Scripture is open to interpretation. Today the Vatican has influence but not any real power like it once held.
Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!
You mean the Christian faith that came from Jews? Jesus, Paul and all of the apostles were Jews. So, basically the choice is to follow Jews or.... follow Jews. There's your choice. And people wonder why I'm not religious...
I take it you've been studying the works of Dr. Goebbels?
#34. To: Cynicom (#33)
(Edited)
If you find insults to be impressive or useful, you are wrong.
#35. To: lodwick (#32)
oops
#36. To: aristeides (#34)
If you had read as much of Dr. Goebbels as I have, you might recognize the similarity of the ideas.
#37. To: Cynicom (#36)
Every mention of the goy front man mentioned there's a Zionist Jew smiling right beside them.
#38. To: robin (#2)
Does anyone in the Bush regime ever read a history book?
Steven Wright
#39. To: richard9151 (#17)
MARIA THERESA, Queen of Hungary and Bohemia (1771 1789): "Henceforth no Jew, no matter under what name, will be allowed to remain here without my written permission. I know of no other troublesome pest within the state than this race, which impoverished the people by their fraud, usury and money lending and commits all deeds which an honorable man despises. Subsequently they have to be removed and excluded from here as much as possible."
#40. To: innieway (#38)
#41. To: richard9151 (#23)
"But whence comes this sinister marvel (the progressive Judaic Power)? It comes from the failing of the Christian faith..."
 | Capitalism is NOT an economic system, it's a RELIGION for ASSHOLES! |
#42. To: Elliott Jackalope, innieway, robin, noone222, Red Jones, Eoghan, who knows what evil, Rickyj, ..., Ferret Mike, ghostdogtxn, HOUNDDAWG, ALL (#41)
have y'all seen this? "This section explores the little known foundations of the cult of Equinoctial Christolatry (Christianity) which unannounced to most rests in the astrotheological belief systems ancient world." i'd be interested to know your opinion of this information.
#43. To: noone222 (#39)
Antonia Fraser, in her recent biography of Maria Theresa's daughter Marie Antoinette, describes how Maria Theresa sickened with pneumonia and died. Here's a description of her illnesses late in life in Pathography and biography of the Empress Maria Theresa: A death from pneumonia at the age of 63 was not unusual in that period.
After her husband's death she started suffering from depression with steady necrophile obsessions. Maria Theresa suffered from a chronical obstructional pulmonary disease (asthma), rehumatic syndromes, hypertension and anxiodepressive syndromes. In 1767 she had small pox. In November 11th 1780 she caught a cold which grew into a pneumonia with high fever. She died of cardiopulmonal dedompensation preceded by pneumonia and asthma.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
#44. To: innieway (#38)
Exactly, my friend. Just to mention Scriptures and history in the same breath is akin to what? Blasphamy to most. (I tink I butchered that word!) And you are right again! If Revelation says it won't happen, TAKE IT TO THE BANK!
IF the majority of people could make this distinction, THEN perhaps we could "make a difference"... Revelation says it won't happen, and I tend to believe it.
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest.
#45. To: robin (#40)
robin, you need to read up on the Black Pope. Really, you do. Just because the power is well hidden, does not mean it does not exist! We have been told this countless times in history, that there is a hidden hand behind ALL powers.
Today the Vatican has influence but not any real power like it once held.
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest.
#46. To: christine (#42)
Looks like blasphemy to this Baptist.
Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!
#47. To: Elliott Jackalope (#41)
No, they were not; they were Israelites. And this has been discussed endlessly on 4um, so please, don't start up the same old tired BS again! Read the book, The Thirteenth Tribe, for instance; the book is FREE at Bible Believers: http://www.biblebelievers.o rg.au/13trindx.htm This book traces the history of the ancient Khazar Empire, a major but almost forgotten power in Eastern Europe, which in the Dark Ages became converted to Judaism. Khazaria was finally wiped out by the forces of Genghis Khan, but evidence indicates that the Khazars themselves migrated to Poland and formed the cradle of Western Jewry. Judism is based on the Talmud, and always has been! And I can show you lots of quotes on that directly from the so-called Jews if you wish. That is why, when Jesus was talking to them, he told them that their father was the father of all lies! "Mr Benjamin Freedman, a Jewish industrialist born in New York, wrote in the Economic Council Letter published there of October 15 1947: "These Eastern European Jews have neither a racial nor a historic connection with Palestine. Their ancestors were not inhabitants of the Promised Land. They are the direct descendants of the people of the Khazar Kingdom.. The Khazars were a non Semitic, Turko Mongolian tribe.." Mr Freedman was challenged, unwisely, by a Zionist objector...he invited his challenger to go with him to the Jewish room of the New York Public Library. There they could together examine the Jewish Encyclopedia volume I pp. 1 12, and the published works of Graetz, Dubnow, Friedlander, Raisin and many other noted Jewish historians, which, as well as other non Jewish authorities, "establish the fact beyond all possible doubt".’ (Somewhere South of Suez (1950) pp349 350)."
Jesus, Paul and all of the apostles were Jews.
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest.
#48. To: richard9151 (#45)
I think the authority of the Vatican may be the most under-estimated of them all while appearing benevolent.
"The mighty are only mighty because we are on our knees. Let us rise!" --Camille Desmoulins
#49. To: christine (#42)
Seems to be an attempt to discount Christianity. At the end it says it's not based on truth. This after repeatedly pointing out how it parallels ancient religions. If all cultures have the same basic religion makes me think maybe there is a basic truth there. I think the misconceptions come from a misunderstanding about the nature of God. His diatribe would only confirm that. You might find this odd but taking everything that was said there as truth, I saw nothing that would sway me from Christianity or my understanding of God. Actually everything there simple confirmed my beliefs.
i'd be interested to know your opinion of this information.
#50. To: noone222 (#48) (Edited)
P2 Lodge - Murder, bribery, assassinations, KoM, CIA, Hegalian conflict/ resolution and now Michael Leeden. Leader worship cults like Free Republic.
“Yes, but is this good for Jews?"
#51. To: all (#47)
This thread is a wonderful example of how the various strains of Christianity, religions, scripture interpretations, and Bible ‘bots keep us split six ways from Sunday. And the best part about this cluster f**k? Each individual thinks they alone possess the truth and the light. Hilarious, sad but hilarious.
#52. To: richard9151 (#47)
When referencing the TALMUD it would be helpful to use the full title of BABYLONIAN TALMUD. The BABYLONIAN TALMUD wasn't codified until sometime around 500 A.D., prior to that it was transmitted by word of mouth, as in Jesus' era and was called the TRADITIONS of MEN by Jesus. There is no mention of a synagogue in the Old Testament because until the captivity of Judah and Benjamin none existed amongst the Israelites. The Ten Northern Tribes were not indoctrinated into the BABYLONIAN TALMUD as it didn't exist amongst them. The (looks like royalty) Judahites were indoctrinated almost immediately by ASHPENAZ, a Babylonian Teacher/Priest, that was an Eunuch (sound familiar, like a catholic priest, traditions, etc., ... Read the Book of Daniel, Chapter 1.) The name ASHPENAZ may have more significance as it is very similar to ASHKENAZ a grandson of the Japeth lineage that is the ancestor line of the ASHKENAZI JEW. (Who are the Khazar converts to Judaism/Babylonian Talmudism). That's why I continue to say they're not Jews ... they're all BABYLONIANS divided into three groups, Jews, Masonics and Papists. I admit that I don't know how they've managed to keep track of their heritage over 6000 years, but I think they have done it as far as the chief rulers are concerned. This thread began discussing WW I and WW II and my thoughts on this are that both wars utilized the hegelian dialectic and were intended to achieve the internationalists agenda. The Fascists vs. Communists facade created the UN and within a year the UN created the fake state of ISRAEL.
Judism is based on the Talmud, and always has been! And I can show you lots of quotes on that directly from the so-called Jews if you wish. That is why, when Jesus was talking to them, he told them that their father was the father of all lies!
"The mighty are only mighty because we are on our knees. Let us rise!" --Camille Desmoulins
#53. To: richard9151 (#47)
Was Jesus Jewish and, if he was, how would that have influenced his experiences as a young man growing up in Galilee? Was Jesus a Jew? Of course, Jesus was a Jew. He was born of a Jewish mother, in Galilee, a Jewish part of the world. All of his friends, associates, colleagues, disciples, all of them were Jews. He regularly worshipped in Jewish communal worship, what we call synagogues. He preached from Jewish text, from the Bible. He celebrated the Jewish festivals. He went on pilgrimage to the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem where he was under the authority of priests.... He lived, was born, lived, died, taught as a Jew. This is obvious to any casual reader of the gospel text. What's striking is not so much that he was a Jew but that the gospels make no pretense that he wasn't. The gospels have no sense yet that Jesus was anything other than a Jew. The gospels don't even have a sense that he came to found a new religion, an idea completely foreign to all the gospel text, and completely foreign to Paul. That is an idea which comes about only later. So, to say that he was a Jew is saying a truism, is simply stating an idea that is so obvious on the face of it, one wonders it even needs to be said. But, of course, it does need to be said because we all know what happens later in the story, where it turns out that Christianity becomes something other than Judaism and as a result, Jesus in retrospect is seen not as a Jew, but as something else, as a founder of Christianity. But, of course, he was a Jew. Referred from http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/jesus/bornliveddied.html Quoted from Samuel Ungerleider Professor of Judaic Studies and Professor of Religious Studies Brown University So, at best, the subject is controversial. However, I think the preponderance of evidence shows that Jesus was, in fact, totally Kosher.
| Capitalism is NOT an economic system, it's a RELIGION for ASSHOLES! |
#54. To: Jethro Tull (#51)
Yet however split we are, most are agreed on a few essentials: get out of Iraq, get rid of the Bush regime, and elect Ron Paul. And despite our differences, we feel free on this 4um to air our opinions and thoughts and allow others the same courtesy.
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#55. To: robin (#54)
robin, unfortunately, none of the unifying items you mention will be accomplished. Not a one. I am certain, however, that the issues of religion, abortion and even illegal immigration will continue to divide us much to the delight of the PTB.
#56. To: Jethro Tull, robin (#55)
imo, the only thing that would/could ever collectively unify americans is an attack by another country (like we're now doing to iraq) where our very survival was at stake. [we] will never collectively recognize the enemy within.
#57. To: Jethro Tull (#51)
As the fitness of the original idea declines, so too does the cost of schism.
Given that S-curves are empirically rampant in diffusion contexts, the situations in which individual-level, environmental learning overpowers biased cultural transmission to spread a beneficial trait must be relatively rare. Two possible explanations for this present themselves. One suggests that our database is somehow biased against these kinds of diffusions, so they only seem rare—somehow these kinds of diffusions are systematically omitted from study. The second explanation is that L (or more precisely d) is large—meaning that biased transmission is the predominate component of human cognition.
#58. To: christine (#56)
Not as long as the enemy is in control.
[we] will never collectively recognize the enemy within.
#59. To: Tauzero (#57) (Edited)
iow, we've gone too far from what this nation was originally intended to be...and, at this point in its evolution, the majority of the last few generations has no knowledge of what that was. (which brought me to my conclusion a few posts up)
#60. To: christine (#42)
I believe it to be true in most respects that many religions had an almost identical religious set-up, Virgin mother, savior son, resurrected from the dead, etc., ... it has affected the way I look at things, I'm more skeptical. [Mithraism, Zorastrianism etc., there were many]. I am not a religious person as is commonly attributed to Christians. I find the Churches are hypocritical and more like an arm of the government. I'm still trying to figure a lot of things out for my own personal satisfaction. It's often a waste of time to share this information with others not interested much in the subject, and nearly impossible for those people to see that the conditions of the world are being manipulated, and we are being manipulated because generally speaking we're too smart for our own good and we've been subtly coaxed to ignore the Bible by people we might consider intelligent. We think some things are old fashioned or outmoded ideals and so we begin sliding down the slippery slope into a world where everyone does their own thing with indifference towards others. God's rules as laid out are pretty good. I'm not a Bible thumper or anyone's judge, but today we're paying the price for not obeying God's rules. And it will get worse, ending in our captivity or worse. It "ALWAYS" does. We've gotten so ridiculous that many people in the country actually think we have a right to kill arabs and take the oil under their sovereign land. And most of those people think that we should be killing arabs just to keep the price of gas down. Ours is a society that is degenerating pretty quickly and has no real moral anchor. We've accepted no responsibility for our actions and we like it that way. That's why many are insurance poor. They trust insurance companies to relieve them of their responsibility. Some rely upon the government for support. Ask a room full of your friends if they are socialists and no one will raise their hand. Ask them to quote from memory their SSN and nearly everyone will be able to recite the 9 digit Socialist Identifier. But, as for your original question, it is very true that many religions preceeded Christianity and appear to have had many similar beliefs, rituals, and identical characters with different names.
"The mighty are only mighty because we are on our knees. Let us rise!" --Camille Desmoulins
#61. To: noone222 (#60)
I believe it to be true in most respects that many religions had an almost identical religious set-up, Virgin mother, savior son, resurrected from the dead, etc., ... it has affected the way I look at things, I'm more skeptical. [Mithraism, Zorastrianism etc., there were many]. But, as for your original question, it is very true that many religions preceeded Christianity and appear to have had many similar beliefs, rituals, and identical characters with different names. thanks for answering my question with specificity.
#62. To: noone222 (#48)
I agree completely. All one has to do is read the book, The Two Babylons to learn what is going on, but most dare not for what they fear to learn!
I think the authority of the Vatican may be the most under-estimated of them all while appearing benevolent.
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest.
#63. To: farmfriend, christine, robin, all (#49)
I did not look at the info, and I do not have too to understand. Here are the facts; Are we speaking of Christianity, OR, of religions of man which: promote the birth date of Tammuz, son of the Sun God Nimrod, born on Dec. 25, as the birth day of Jesus? promote the holy day of Istar, mother of Tammuz, as Easter? promote the worship of the Sun on the day of the sun, i.e., Sun-day? promote EVERY Hol-y-day (holiday) of the pagan calander as holy days of the One True God? will not perform marriages without a state issued marriage licence? REQUIRE that the ministers of His Word have a state issued lic. in order to preach His Word? REQUIRE that the denomenational churches are incorporated? refute that His Law is in force and must be obeyed that society does not self destruct? I would guess that if you are going to refute Christianity, the first thing you have to do is decide exactly what is Christianity; Is it what men say it is? Or, is it what Jesus Christ said it is?
Seems to be an attempt to discount Christianity. At the end it says it's not based on truth. This after repeatedly pointing out how it parallels ancient religions. If all cultures have the same basic religion makes me think maybe there is a basic truth there. I think the misconceptions come from a misunderstanding about the nature of God. His diatribe would only confirm that.
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest.
#64. To: noone222 (#52)
YEAH!!!! Pretty much!!! Very good. As to the Talmud, there is really only the one; the Babylonian. I just posted, yesterday, I think, the difference between it and the Palistinine Talmud, and there is not much. The so-called Jews themselves say that the Babylonian is the more authoritive. So, you are correct; let's go with that! And as to the other, you are EXACTLY correct; Jews, Masons, and Papists - with whatever other secret societies exist at any given time (I want nothing to do with any of them!). As to them, let them do their worst; I will not be carrying their garbage around on judgement day, thank you, GOD!!! For your guidance.
That's why I continue to say they're not Jews ... they're all BABYLONIANS divided into three groups, Jews, Masonics and Papists. I admit that I don't know how they've managed to keep track of their heritage over 6000 years, but I think they have done it as far as the chief rulers are concerned.
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest.
#65. To: Elliott Jackalope (#53)
Let me see if I get this right. The answer is..... GO TO THE MAINSTREAM SOURCES TO LOOK FOR THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yeah, alright! I got it!! Jeez, Elliott, are you drinking/drunk today or what? FIRST THING: The word Jew DID NOT EXIST TWO HUNDRED YEARS AGO. Got that? Care to argue? Careful.... cause the Letter J did not exist 200 years ago..... And, over those 200 years, who has had COMPLETE control of the printing/publishing establishment.... for major books? Oh, right, the so- called Jews. They were not Jews. They were Israelites of the Tribe of Judah. There is a world of difference in the two, and, to call the people who are named as Jews today, with the thought that they, also, are descended from the Tribe of Judah is like saying that ALL Catholics are Italian! Just cause someone says it is so, don't make it so! Now, I gave you the links to show who the people of today are, blood wise, who CLAIM to be so-called Jews. Use em or lose em, I say. And in the Bible, if you go back and study it, when Jesus was talking to those named as Jews in the Bible, the words He was using translate better to 'you' & 'your' rather than something like Jew. The people he was talking to were Pharisees; not of the tribe of Judah. They had came to be there because they were followers of the anciant religion of the myseries; the religion of Babylon. Please read the following, carefully; "Pharisaism became Talmudism...But the spirit of the Ancient Pharisee survives unaltered. When the Jew...studies the Talmud, he is actually repeating the arguments used in the Palestinian academies. From Palestine to Babylonia; from Babylonia to North Africa, Italy, Spain, France and Germany; from these to Poland, Russia and eastern Europe generally, ancient Pharisaism has wandered..." (The Pharisees, by Louis Finkelstein, Foreword, Vol. 1). "The Talmud: Heart's Blood of the Jewish Faith..." (November 11, 1959, New York Herald Tribune, based on The Talmud, by Herman Wouk). "The Talmud derives its authority from the position held by the ancient (Pharisee) academies. The teachers of those academies, both of Babylonia and of Palestine, were considered the rightful successors of the older Sanhedrin...At the present time, the Jewish people have no living central authority comparable in status to the ancient Sanhedrins or the later academies. Therefore, any decision regarding the Jewish religion must be based on the Talmud as the final resume of the teaching of those authorities when they existed." (The Jews - Their History, Culture, and Religion, by Rabbi Louis Finkelstein, Vol. 4, p. 1332, Jewish Publication Society of America, 1949)
So, at best, the subject is controversial. However, I think the preponderance of evidence shows that Jesus was, in fact, totally Kosher.
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest.
#66. To: Tauzero (#57)
Quit screwing with our minds! LOL! After all, my girl friends always liked me more for what I did not mind!
Given that S-curves are empirically rampant in diffusion contexts, the situations in which individual-level, environmental learning overpowers biased cultural transmission to spread a beneficial trait must be relatively rare. Two possible explanations for this present themselves. One suggests that our database is somehow biased against these kinds of diffusions, so they only seem rare—somehow these kinds of diffusions are systematically omitted from study. The second explanation is that L (or more precisely d) is large—meaning that biased transmission is the predominate component of human cognition.
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest.
#67. To: Jethro Tull (#51)
Hey, but I really do. Really. ')
Each individual thinks they alone possess the truth and the light. Hilarious,
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#68. To: richard9151 (#65)
Note the "INRI" tag above the cross of Jesus in many ancient paintings
Care to argue? Careful.... cause the Letter J did not exist 200 years ago.....
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#69. To: christine (#42)
I've seen the parallels between Horus and Jesus. There is book that came out in the late 1950s with a forward by Albert Einstein that discusses this at great length. The title is Man and His Gods. There is another theory that this relationship is one of the reasons the majority of the Dead Sea Scrolls have never been released. They predate the Council of Nicaea and there is a theory that they are a little too Horus oriented for the tastes of modern Christianity. A lot of people know that the Celtic cross, the cross with a circle around it, is a pagan symbol. It has to be. There are surviving crosses in Ireland that predate Christianity. It's hilarious that the fundies use this without knowing what it is. I also once saw a thing on German TV that talked about how old the zodiac actually was. They've found the symbols carved in neolithic cave settlements more than ten thousand years old. Everyone knows about the Gilgamesh Noah relatiionships too. There is an interesting theory coming up now that there was a neolithic asteriod strike in the area and that this made quite an impression on the local cultures. The event lived on in legend. Gilgamesh talks about the gods pouring out goblets of fire from the sky, followed by curtains of flame and then 40 days and 40 nights of rain and flooding. Something consistend with an asteraoid strike in the med. They've apparently found an underwater crater that dates to roughly the correct time period. One thing he missed is that the same sort of stories exist in Native American culture. The Sioux have a story about the divine son that is very similar to the story of Jesus and Horus. They also have a father, son and holy spirit triune god and a mother figure that corresponds to Mary.
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#70. To: tom007 (#68)
Good catch, Tom.... very good! BUT... I'm actually the one with the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help me...... ummmm... OK! The Decider!
Note the "INRI" tag above the cross of Jesus in many ancient paintings
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest.
#71. To: tom007 (#67)
Amun!
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
" Junk is the ideal product... the ultimate merchandise. No sales talk necessary. The client will crawl through a sewer and beg to buy." - William S Burroughs
#72. To: ..., christine (#69)
Another thing missed is all of the blond, blue eyed 'Indians' in the east when the whites showed up. And, the stories about all of the tells that have been found in North America which show very, very early explorers of North America. And, the evidence of all of the worked out copper mines around the great lakes, which material closely corresponds to the copper used in the great Temple in Israel. And the blue eyed, white God of the Incans and the Aztecs. Or the history of Ireland that goes back to one of the 10 lost tribes of Israel. Or the evidence that shows how different was the earth prior to the flood, with oxygen making up about 37% of the atmosphere, and with pressures being about 2 1/2 times what we have today. Not to mention that there is plentiful evidence that the sea shores were about 3 miles deeper in the oceans then. I have posted info about this a couple of times. And the real problems with the Dead Sea scrolls, probably, is how they would destroy the Roman church, which is the control agent for the earth today.
One thing he missed is that the same sort of stories exist in Native American culture. The Sioux have a story about the divine son that is very similar to the story of Jesus and Horus. They also have a father, son and holy spirit triune god and a mother figure that corresponds to Mary.
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest.
#73. To: Dakmar, tom007 (#71)
Amun! Hey! You can't fool me again, that was "00" and "04"!
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!
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