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Title: Fossil Reanalysis Pushes Back Origin of Homo sapiens
Source:
sciam
URL Source: http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?ch ... DFE-C0B7-1213-80B783414B7F0000
Published: Feb 17, 2005
Author: unlisted
Post Date: 2005-02-17 05:49:36 by 2Trievers
Keywords: Reanalysis, sapiens, Fossil
Views: 1828
Comments: 185
A new analysis of human remains first discovered in 1967 suggests that they are in fact much older than previously believed. The results, published today in the journal Nature, push back the emergence of our species by nearly 35,000 years. Ian McDougall of the Australian National University in Canberra and his colleagues worked with two well-known fossil finds known as Omo I and Omo II, which were recovered from Ethiopia's Kibish Formation by Richard Leakey. The remains include two partial skulls as well as arm, leg, foot and pelvis bones for Omo I. "Anthropologists said they looked very different in their evolutionary status," remarks study co-author Frank Brown of the University of Utah. "Omo I appeared to be essentially modern Homo sapiens and Omo II appeared to be more primitive." At the time, the bones were dated to 130,000 years ago, based on radioactive decay of uranium and thorium from oyster shells found nearby. This time the scientists returned to the southern Ethiopian site and identified the resting places of both individuals. They also unearthed another part of a femur bone for Omo I that fits together with the original remains. The researchers then analyzed the volcanic ash layers above and below the river sediment that contained the fossils using argon dating. They determined that the rock just below the fossils dated to 196,000 years ago. Because the layers of the Kibish Formation formed quickly during wet seasons that inundated the area with organic matter, the team posits that the bones are only slightly younger than this underlying layer. In addition, a layer of ash more than 150 feet above the burial sites dates to 104,000 years old, putting a limit on their age. Using other evidence, which drained from the Nile and the Omo rivers onto the Mediterranean seafloor, the researchers attest that the Omo fossils are most likely no younger than 190,000 years old. Previously the oldest known traces of our species were fossils from Herto, Ethiopia, that date to about 160,000 years ago. The older age of the Omo remains is concordant with dates suggested by genetic studies for the origin of our species, says study co-author John Fleagle of Stony Brook University. He adds that "as modern human anatomy is documented at earlier and earlier sites, it becomes evident that there was a great time gap between the appearance of the modern skeleton and 'modern' behavior."
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#25. To: Samuel Gray (#22)
The time element doesn't bother me one way or another. We don't know how long the "day" was. The "day" is a convenient measurement of time. The Bible states that to the Lord, a day is as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day. That means to me that time is not important in divine thinking. A divine being would have no concept of time.
... that they are assholes, that is.
Then, you feel that the creation viewpoint is not that important and it can be taught as well as the evolution theory?
This is why I don't talk about these issues much. When one runs up against a wall of faith, it is virtually impenetrable. Just look at the thousand plus reply "crevo" threads at FR, and the vitriol expended on both sides. I'd rather just be civil and say "you believe, I'll disbelieve, and we'll see what washes out in the afterlife, should there be one."
Well, don't the evolutionists feel that mankind dragged himself out the primordial slime to the trees, i.e. the apes, and then down out of the trees to whatever the heck we are today?
Of course, you do know that the evolutionist theory is built on the same thing, right? It takes a lot of faith to believe that the origin of mankind is something that dragged himself out of the ocean to become modern-day man.
No one is being uncivil. We are discussing evolution vs creation.
Evolution has its own sets of problems, not the least of which is the same timeline problems that creationism has. With physicists dating the age of the known universe, suddenly the evolutionists find themselves up against a huge timeline problem of their own, ie, how all these complex, interlocking systems could have evolved within the time that they now know they had to get it done. Both biologists and Christians have been known to take extraordinary leaps of faith and fancy not supported in any way by the facts on record. ;)
And, of course, that is faith enters the picture. But, I have heard the idea that it takes less faith to believe that a divine being, God, created this thing. I have to agree.
Now chocolate cake without chocolate frosting. That's heresy.
Nice one 2Trievers, Thanks.
Honest to pete ... someone sent me this wind-up yesterday ... NUN-ZILLA!! The spark of religion
Nothing upsets them more then popping that at them, they barely understand science, trying to actually get them to understand philosophy is just a little much...LOL
isin't she wearing a Burka? I say nuke her for the sake of freedom.
It takes no faith at all to understand that evolution is the best scientific explanation of how the Human species and the others species of the world got to be what they are today. Sure, it has some problems, but it is still the best SCIENTIFIC explanation there is. It takes a HUGE amount of faith to believe in creationism, because the scientific evidence around us, shows us that it is complete and utter nonsense. It is a great morality tale, it has a wonderful message, but it was NEVER meant to be taken literally, just as a lot of things in the bible were NEVER meant to be taken literally.
LOL, or at least get out a sledgehammer.....
There'll be no rapture for you!
I have a rapture experience whenever I look at my kids, that's all I need.... This stuff about flying up to heaven gives me the willies, I'm afraid of heights, so leave me out of it....LOL
Open up a school and teach whatever you want. However, don't be surprised if many employers decline to hire people taught at these schools. I might prefer that public schools not teach creationism, but at this point, the level of misinformation being spoon-fed to our kids in areas such as history and civics is so bad that in a few more years it won't really matter anymore one way or the other. Yes, let them both be taught together. It won't really matter so long as one side isn't actively trying to suppress the other. Disclaimers such as "Evolution is only a theory" is fine as long as Creationism is aknowleged as ALSO being just a theory. America is heading into the dark ages anyways. Go for the gusto.
Lately, I've been thinking the same thing; somebody should start a thread on the topic.
Nope, not on my watch.... First off ANY scientific theory is "only" a theory, second of all, Creationism is NOT a theory, it is religion, a religious myth at that. There is NOTHING at all scientific about creationism, therefore, it cannot be considered a "theory". Yes, the schools are shot to hell, that is why I don't send my kids to them... This country is also shot to hell, another reason why I don't send my kids to public schools.
A scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it.
If this is the best that science can come up with, science has a lot to be deserved. Nonsense is nonsense and a theory that mankind crawled out of the ocean and evolved into mankind is nonsense.
Translation: Get rid of the smart people and indoctrinate the kids.
Public schools are just that. They are public. And, I imagine that a lot of the tax monies extorted from me go into those public schools. If you think that public schools should not teach creationism, that knife cuts both ways. There are always two sides to an issue.
I say nuke her for the sake of freedom. Wait! Hold fire! Isn't that Hillary in her thong? We couldn't do that!!
My favorite quote of all time, no wonder I couldn't find it, I thought it was Louis de Broglie... He was dead-on with it.
The smart people were the ones that "got" with the program when the theory was still new, and everyone was laughing at them.
I guess it all depends upon your definition of smart.
Still here trying to figure out the evolution of Sunday Man ... and NFL Man ... Remote Man ................
That definition would start by looking at established facts and drawing reasoned conclusions, rather than from a 2,000 year old book of stories whose very "genesis" (what was included, what was omitted), draws the whole issue of its veracity into question. Just because a story has been believed for 1900+ years doesn't make it true, just popular.
That pic is a pretty good beginning for NFL man. Man, that stuff is so boring.
Reasoned conclusion? Ok, a reasoned conclusion is that modern man began as slime in the ocean and over many millions of years became what he is today. Talk about a self-made man. The whole trick is to somehow convince people that slime became an ape and ape became man. The thing is only some guy's theory that many other people want to follow. The thing may be entertaining but so are many other science fiction shows.
I'm for the marketplace deciding (to hell with public schools). I doubt you will find too many people trusting microbiologists/virologists who don't aknowledge natural selection though. Kinda applies itself to laboratory research. Creationism only tries to debunk scientific theory. I don't see evidence that it has predictable results in the lab or offers anything of substance, or that it can stand on its own merits without trying to debunk the other as Natural Selection can.
ROFL!!
In using the term "theory" I'm being charitable, not necessarily accurate. I mean if Hicksville, MO public schools want to slap disclaimers on their biology textbooks then they should slap a similar disclaimer on their creationism textbooks (not that I've heard of any). In fact, all public schools should have a disclaimer slapped on their walls stating that attendance is mandatory under law, and does not necessarily the usefulness of the content of the material taught herein. In fact, if you don't earn enough money to send your kids to private school, then you shouldn't have kids of your own, period. The message of public schools is: "Have all the kids you want. We (The State) will see to their education." Something for everyone to ponder.
In fact, if you don't earn enough money to send your kids to private school, then you shouldn't have kids of your own, period. The message of public schools is: "Have all the kids you want. We (The State) will see to their education." Something for everyone to ponder. Now, that's something I can agree with. Why people focus so hard on each other's differences, I have no idea...there's so much that so many agree on, but ignore because of a few differences.
Well, if this is your idea of evolution, no wonder you believe in creationism. Evolution is a bit more complicated then that, then again, you really don't care to learn about REAL evolution, because then it might call your faith into question, which would bring your entire world down upon your head. I feel bad for people that NEED religion in order to give their life purpose. I feel bad for people that have a need to tear down science in order to make their religion somehow stand up and be real.
Eric, for starters, how about stopping to be a condescending prick?
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#26. To: All, Don (#24)
I would have to agree
#27. To: PnbC (#23)
Pity if you feel it's that important.
#28. To: Don (#25)
#29. To: PnbC (#24)
#30. To: Samuel Gray (#28)
When one runs up against a wall of faith, it is virtually impenetrable.
#31. To: Samuel Gray (#28)
I'd rather just be civil and say "you believe, I'll disbelieve, and we'll see what washes out in the afterlife, should there be one."
#32. To: Don (#30)
#33. To: Samuel Gray (#32)
not supported in any way by the facts on record. ;)
#34. To: Don (#13)
#35. To: Samuel Gray (#9)
I think I know why it requires a child-like faith to believe. Beyond that, one's questioning nature renders the whole religion thing moot (or it does to me).
#36. To: 2Trievers (#35)
#37. To: tom007, Cagey (#36)
Say your prayers! No one is safe from the wrath of Nunzilla! This fire-breathing wind-up sister trudges straight out of a Catholic-school student's nightmare like a determined disciplinary force, with green eyes blazing and sparks flying from her mouth. Wearing the traditional black and white habit and carrying a Bible in one hand and a ruler in the other, this holy terror will have you owning up to transgressions from as far back as birth. 2" tall and made of hard plastic, packaged in a custom cathedral-style box.
#38. To: randge (#8)
#39. To: 2Trievers (#37)
Say your prayers! No one is safe from the wrath of Nunzilla!
#40. To: Don (#33)
#41. To: Flintlock (#39)
#42. To: Aric2000 (#41)
at least get out a sledgehammer.....
#43. To: Flintlock (#42)
#44. To: Don (#27)
#45. To: PnbC (#44)
America is heading into the dark ages anyways.
#46. To: PnbC (#44)
Disclaimers such as "Evolution is only a theory" is fine as long as Creationism is aknowleged as ALSO being just a theory.
#47. To: Aric2000 (#46)
~~ Max Planck
#48. To: Flintlock (#39)
#49. To: Aric2000 (#40)
#50. To: 2Trievers (#47)
but rather because its opponents eventually die and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it.
#51. To: PnbC (#44)
#52. To: Flintlock (#39)
isin't she wearing a Burka?
#53. To: 2Trievers (#47)
#54. To: Don (#50)
#55. To: Samuel Gray (#54)
#56. To: Don (#50)
#57. To: Don (#55)
definition of smart.
#58. To: 2Trievers (#56)
#59. To: Samuel Gray (#57)
#60. To: Don (#51)
#61. To: PnbC (#23)
The debate has no relevance to the teachings of Christianity. Belief in Creationism doesn't make one any better or worse a person or Christian than someone who doesn't.
#62. To: Aric2000 (#46)
#63. To: PnbC (#62)
In fact, all public schools should have a disclaimer slapped on their walls stating that attendance is mandatory under law, and does not necessarily the usefulness of the content of the material taught herein.
#64. To: Don (#49)
If this is the best that science can come up with, science has a lot to be deserved. Nonsense is nonsense and a theory that mankind crawled out of the ocean and evolved into mankind is nonsense.
#65. To: Aric2000, All (#64)
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