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Science/Tech
See other Science/Tech Articles

Title: Fossil Reanalysis Pushes Back Origin of Homo sapiens
Source: sciam
URL Source: http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?ch ... DFE-C0B7-1213-80B783414B7F0000
Published: Feb 17, 2005
Author: unlisted
Post Date: 2005-02-17 05:49:36 by 2Trievers
Keywords: Reanalysis, sapiens, Fossil
Views: 2162
Comments: 185

A new analysis of human remains first discovered in 1967 suggests that they are in fact much older than previously believed. The results, published today in the journal Nature, push back the emergence of our species by nearly 35,000 years.

Ian McDougall of the Australian National University in Canberra and his colleagues worked with two well-known fossil finds known as Omo I and Omo II, which were recovered from Ethiopia's Kibish Formation by Richard Leakey. The remains include two partial skulls as well as arm, leg, foot and pelvis bones for Omo I. "Anthropologists said they looked very different in their evolutionary status," remarks study co-author Frank Brown of the University of Utah. "Omo I appeared to be essentially modern Homo sapiens and Omo II appeared to be more primitive." At the time, the bones were dated to 130,000 years ago, based on radioactive decay of uranium and thorium from oyster shells found nearby. This time the scientists returned to the southern Ethiopian site and identified the resting places of both individuals. They also unearthed another part of a femur bone for Omo I that fits together with the original remains.

The researchers then analyzed the volcanic ash layers above and below the river sediment that contained the fossils using argon dating. They determined that the rock just below the fossils dated to 196,000 years ago. Because the layers of the Kibish Formation formed quickly during wet seasons that inundated the area with organic matter, the team posits that the bones are only slightly younger than this underlying layer. In addition, a layer of ash more than 150 feet above the burial sites dates to 104,000 years old, putting a limit on their age. Using other evidence, which drained from the Nile and the Omo rivers onto the Mediterranean seafloor, the researchers attest that the Omo fossils are most likely no younger than 190,000 years old.

Previously the oldest known traces of our species were fossils from Herto, Ethiopia, that date to about 160,000 years ago. The older age of the Omo remains is concordant with dates suggested by genetic studies for the origin of our species, says study co-author John Fleagle of Stony Brook University. He adds that "as modern human anatomy is documented at earlier and earlier sites, it becomes evident that there was a great time gap between the appearance of the modern skeleton and 'modern' behavior."

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#72. To: PnbC (#70)

Yet it's treated as if it IS written in stone. That whole infallible word of God ploy that makes it ironclad and above reproach. Truth is, no one knows who's edited what in that thing, or what agenda they had doing it. They just invoke "God's Will" and say that nothing is in there that He didn't "miracle" in there. Not buying it for a second, thanks.

What about the Gnostic Gospels, the Apocrypha, etc, books that didn't make the editorial cut?

As I said yesterday, the BEST politican has got nothing on the least preacher when it comes to spin. Rumplestiltskin's task of spinning flax into gold is child's play compared to the pastors who routinely weave fables into faith using a book 90 percent of them don't have the faintest understanding of in the first place.

The people who trash science always come out with that "new advancements are changing scientific theories every day, nothing is written in stone" but they without fail turn back to the (KJV) version of the bible and say the exact opposite, that it's unchanging and flawless.

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-02-18   14:06:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#73. To: Samuel Gray (#72)

hey without fail turn back to the (KJV) version of the bible and say the exact opposite, that it's unchanging and flawless.

Setting up straw dogs is recognized in logic as a fallacy.

Don  posted on  2005-02-18   14:09:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: Don (#73)

No moreso than your simplistic and self serving characterization of the theory of evolution a few posts back.

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-02-18   14:11:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#75. To: Samuel Gray (#74)

Which post?

Don  posted on  2005-02-18   14:12:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#76. To: Don (#75)

#59 in your hymnals.

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-02-18   14:16:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#77. To: Samuel Gray (#76)

Are you saying that Post 59 is not a summation of the theory of evolution?

Don  posted on  2005-02-18   14:17:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#78. To: Don (#77)

Are you saying that Post 59 is not a summation of the theory of evolution?

What I'd said earlier was that it was a simplistic and self serving summation.

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-02-18   14:26:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#79. To: Samuel Gray (#78)

But, it is a truthful summation, right?

Don  posted on  2005-02-18   14:29:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#80. To: Don (#79)

truthful summation

I'm sure you'd consider it thus. I do not.

Then again, "let there be light" seems a bit oversimplified to me.

Did He mean let it be a particle, or a wave, or did the duality just happen that way?

For matters of faith, the *ahem* devil is in the details.

Then, I suppose you may say that about evolution too, but in that case there is a bit more bone upon which to hang flesh.

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-02-18   14:38:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#81. To: Samuel Gray (#80)

You keep getting hung up on religion here. Lets just keep religion out of the picture if it offends you.

I'm sure you'd consider it thus looks as though you are skipping around the mayberry bush. It is truthful or it is not. Which one is it? If you want a serious discussion on the matter, lets have serious answers.

Don  posted on  2005-02-18   14:57:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#82. To: Don (#81)

Asked and answered. I said your summation was not truthful.

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-02-18   15:17:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#83. To: Don (#58)

You have a 4mail ...

2Trievers  posted on  2005-02-18   16:12:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#84. To: Don (#81)

Lets just keep religion out of the picture if it offends you.

To a growing number of Americans, Christianity is like strong disinfectant on a wound...it's burns a lot.

TomBishop  posted on  2005-02-18   16:19:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#85. To: crack monkey (#66)

I can't find the link right now ... maybe "Cheesy Jesus"? If I run across it again, I'll let you know.

2Trievers  posted on  2005-02-18   16:23:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#86. To: TomBishop (#84)

Well, there are many "Christians" who support Bush. The thing is these supporters have little to do with Christianity as it was taught by its namesake.

Don  posted on  2005-02-18   18:36:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#87. To: 2Trievers (#83)

I don't see mail.

Don  posted on  2005-02-18   18:37:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#88. To: Samuel Gray (#82)

Ok, then evolutionists do not preach their brand of religion stating the things that I said. Right.

Don  posted on  2005-02-18   18:38:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#89. To: Don (#87)

I'll try again ........

2Trievers  posted on  2005-02-19   0:41:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#90. To: Don (#65)

Sorry, I can't help it when it comes to upstart Christian Creationists that know nothing about evolution but spout about how it isn't science.

Total and complete nonsense, so I speak to you as if you are a child, because you are about as ignorant as one...

Aric2000  posted on  2005-02-19   0:45:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#91. To: Don (#69)

As for the scientific theory thing, scientific theory about this and that is constantly debunked by other findings within the field of science. Not much of what science prescribes as fact is written on stone. New findings are constantly being made and making obsolete what was once accepted as scientific fact.

Very good statement, but what does that mean to you Don?

DOes that mean that science means nothing because it can be changed?

Sorry, WRONG answer......

You myths are in a written book, and match up with THOUSANDS of other myths of thousands of other religions. Creation myths are a dime a dozen, just because your bible states one, does not make it the harbinger of the total true one. Just as the flood myth has stories that come very close to it as well.

I can tell you exactly where you creation myth came from, what region of the world, and what religion it came from, I can also tell you where your flood myth came from, what region, when, and from what religion it came from.

THe old testament myths are a conglomeration of so many religions that it is insane, none of it's myths are original in any way shape or form.

Study the HISTORY of the bible, it is fascinating reading, then again, it just might crush your faith to such a point your life won't be worth living, so never mind.

And Yes, I am a total prick when it comes to self rightseous christians who claim to have the one and only truth, because it is so far from the ACTUAL historical truth, that it isn't even worth discussing.

Respect those that search for the truth, doubt those that claim they have found it.

Aric2000  posted on  2005-02-19   0:57:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#92. To: Aric2000 (#90)

Total and complete nonsense, so I speak to you as if you are a child, because you are about as ignorant as one...

At least you know what you are. Take a hike.

Don  posted on  2005-02-19   2:22:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#93. To: Don (#92)

Total and complete nonsense, so I speak to you as if you are a child, because you are about as ignorant as one...

At least you know what you are. Take a hike.

Ahh, poor baby, the truth hurts doesn't it? WAAAAHHHHH....

ROFLMAO!!

Poor wittle Cweationist, did I hut yo wittle feewings?.....

Aric2000  posted on  2005-02-19   3:40:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#94. To: Aric2000 (#93)

Oh yeah, the board can really tell you've done well in your rejection of the Bible...flawless character you have, lots of empathy and self-control. *sarcasm* About as impressive as a baby crapping his diapers.

TomBishop  posted on  2005-02-19   7:42:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#95. To: Aric2000, Don (#93)

When you battle faith , Aric, a system of reasoning which is not founded on pragmatics, the challenges you suggest may never be received in the same light as they are offered, especially in the tone you offered Don. Can it be that science and logic are also a form of religion .........faith in mans perception of the universe by the means of experiment and logic. And by golly, it comes from the same place. Don is a worthy opponent and deserves respect. At least he has mine.

2Trievers  posted on  2005-02-19   8:34:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#96. To: All (#95)

I found this fun science v religion piece ...

"LET ME EXPLAIN THE problem science has with Jesus Christ." The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to stand. "You're a Christian, aren't you, son?"

"Yes, sir."

"So you believe in God?"

"Absolutely."

"Is God good?"

"Sure! God's good."

"Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?"

"Yes."

"Are you good or evil?"

"The Bible says I'm evil."

The professor grins knowingly. "Ahh! THE BIBLE!" He considers for a moment. "Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help them? Would you try?"

"Yes sir, I would."

"So you're good...!"

"I wouldn't say that."

"Why not say that? You would help a sick and maimed person if you could... in fact most of us would if we could... God doesn't.

[No answer.]

"He doesn't, does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer even though he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you answer that one?"

[No answer]

The elderly man is sympathetic. "No, you can't, can you?" He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax. In philosophy, you have to go easy with the new ones. "Let's start again, young fella."

"Is God good?"

"Er... Yes."

"Is Satan good?"

"No."

"Where does Satan come from?" The student falters.

"From... God..."

"That's right. God made Satan, didn't he?" The elderly man runs his bony fingers through his thinning hair and turns to the smirking, student audience. "I think we're going to have a lot of fun this semester, ladies and gentlemen." He turns back to the Christian.

"Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?"

"Yes, sir."

"Evil's everywhere, isn't it? Did God make everything?"

"Yes."

"Who created evil?

[No answer]

"Is there sickness in this world? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness. All the terrible things - do they exist in this world? "

The student squirms on his feet. "Yes."

"Who created them? "

[No answer]

The professor suddenly shouts at his student. "WHO CREATED THEM? TELL ME, PLEASE!" The professor closes in for the kill and climbs into the Christian's face. In a still small voice: "God created all evil, didn't He, son?"

[No answer]

The student tries to hold the steady, experienced gaze and fails.

Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace the front of the classroom like an aging panther. The class is mesmerized. "Tell me," he continues, "How is it that this God is good if He created all evil throughout all time?" The professor swishes his arms around to encompass the wickedness of the world. "All the hatred, the brutality, all the pain, all the torture, all the death and ugliness and all the suffering created by this good God is all over the world, isn't it, young man?"

[No answer]

"Don't you see it all over the place? Huh?"

Pause.

"Don't you?" The professor leans into the student's face again and whispers,

"Is God good?"

[No answer]

"Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?"

The student's voice betrays him and cracks. "Yes, professor. I do."

The old man shakes his head sadly. "Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you? "

"No, sir. I've never seen Him."

"Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?"

"No, sir. I have not."

"Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your Jesus... in fact, do you have any sensory perception of your God whatsoever?"

[No answer]

"Answer me, please."

"No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't."

"You're AFRAID... you haven't?"

"No, sir."

"Yet you still believe in him?"

"...yes..."

"That takes FAITH!" The professor smiles sagely at the underling. "According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son? Where is your God now?"

[The student doesn't answer]

"Sit down, please."

The Christian sits...Defeated.

Another Christian raises his hand. "Professor, may I address the class?"

The professor turns and smiles. "Ah, another Christian in the vanguard! Come, come, young man. Speak some proper wisdom to the gathering."

The Christian looks around the room. "Some interesting points you are making, sir. Now I've got a question for you. Is there such thing as heat?"

"Yes," the professor replies. "There's heat."

"Is there such a thing as cold?"

"Yes, son, there's cold too."

"No, sir, there isn't."

The professor's grin freezes. The room suddenly goes very cold.

The second Christian continues. "You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat but we don't have anything called 'cold'. We can hit 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold, otherwise we would be able to go colder than 458 - You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it."

Silence. A pin drops somewhere in the classroom.

"Is there such a thing as darkness, professor?"

"That's a dumb question, son. What is night if it isn't darkness? What are you getting at...?"

"So you say there is such a thing as darkness?"

"Yes..."

"You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something, it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define the word. In reality, Darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker and give me a jar of it. Can you...give me a jar of darker darkness, professor?"

Despite himself, the professor smiles at the young effrontery before him. This will indeed be a good semester. "Would you mind telling us what your point is, young man?"

"Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with and so your conclusion must be in error...."

The professor goes toxic. "Flawed...? How dare you...!""

"Sir, may I explain what I mean?"

The class is all ears.

"Explain... oh, explain..." The professor makes an admirable effort to regain control. Suddenly he is affability itself. He waves his hand to silence the class, for the student to continue.

"You are working on the premise of duality," the Christian explains. "That for example there is life and then there's death; a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science cannot even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism but has never seen, much less fully understood them. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, merely the absence of it."

The young man holds up a newspaper he takes from the desk of a neighbor who has been reading it. "Here is one of the most disgusting tabloids this country hosts, professor. Is there such a thing as immorality?"

"Of course there is, now look..."

"Wrong again, sir. You see, immorality is merely the absence of morality.

Is there such thing as injustice? No. Injustice is the absence of justice. Is there such a thing as evil?" The Christian pauses. "Isn't evil the absence of good?"

The professor's face has turned an alarming color. He is so angry he is temporarily speechless.

The Christian continues. "If there is evil in the world, professor, and we all agree there is, then God, if he exists, must be accomplishing a work through the agency of evil. What is that work, God is accomplishing? The Bible tells us it is to see if each one of us will, of our own free will, choose good over evil."

The professor bridles. "As a philosophical scientist, I don't vie this matter as having anything to do with any choice; as a realist, I absolutely do not recognize the concept of God or any other theological factor as being part of the world equation because God is not observable."

"I would have thought that the absence of God's moral code in this world is probably one of the most observable phenomena going," the Christian replies.

"Newspapers make billions of dollars reporting it every week! Tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?"

"If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do."

"Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?"

The professor makes a sucking sound with his teeth and gives his student a silent, stony stare.

"Professor. Since no-one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a priest?"

"I'll overlook your impudence in the light of our philosophical discussion.

Now, have you quite finished?" the professor hisses.

"So you don't accept God's moral code to do what is righteous?"

"I believe in what is - that's science!"

"Ahh! SCIENCE!" the student's face splits into a grin. "Sir, you rightly state that science is the study of observed phenomena. Science too is a premise which is flawed..."

"SCIENCE IS FLAWED..?" the professor splutters.

The class is in uproar.

The Christian remains standing until the commotion has subsided. "To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, may I give you an example of what I mean?" The professor wisely keeps silent.

The Christian looks around the room. "Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the professor's brain?" The class breaks out in laughter.

The Christian points towards his elderly, crumbling tutor. "Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain... felt the professor's brain, touched or smelt the professor's brain?" No one appears to have done so. The Christian shakes his head sadly. "It appears no-one here has had any sensory perception of the professor's brain whatsoever. Well, according to the rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science, I DECLARE that the professor has no brain."

The class is in chaos.

The Christian sits.

2Trievers  posted on  2005-02-19   8:39:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#97. To: 2Trievers (#96)

BRAVO! BRAVO!!!

ENCORE!! ENCORE!!

I bow humbly before your resoning skills, m'lady!

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-02-19   8:59:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#98. To: Aric2000 (#90)

What is it with you evo's? Is it possible in your mind that BOTH theories exist? That God created the heavens and the earth and somwhere along the way creatures evolved? I simply cannot understand the hatred - or what comes acrossed as hatred.

As far as I am concerned, evolution may be a "science", but if it is, it was Gods will. Just as it is God's will that people have free will to believe as they choose.

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-02-19   9:05:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#99. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#97)

Hehehe ... it's all a fun discussion ... but I see no reason to get all twiterpated about it ... life it too fun ... and my motto:

If you have any doubt about it youre correct.

2Trievers  posted on  2005-02-19   9:22:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#100. To: 2Trievers (#99)

twiterpated

huh??? that sounds DIRTY!

I wasn't twiterpated - just don't understand the "animosity" between the camps. I mean, who says that both camps are not correct?

My motto is now "KOKO HAPPY SEE MILK BAGS FUN"

hehehhee

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-02-19   9:29:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#101. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#100)

Hey CAPPS are ya still up or did ya get up early today?

Matthew 7:6

Zipporah  posted on  2005-02-19   9:33:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#102. To: Zipporah (#101)

Hey CAPPS are ya still up or did ya get up early today?

Matthew 7:6

Got back up at 4, went back to bed at 6, got up again at 7.

Timothy 2;13

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-02-19   9:34:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#103. To: CAPPSMADNESS, Samuel Gray (#100)

It's words ..we always get hung up on the "words" ... especially the long complicated ones ...

This is supposedly the longest word ... but it is chemistry and they don't use words...

methionylglutaminylarginyltyrosylglutamylserylleucylphenylalanyla lanylglutaminylleucyllysylglutamylarginyllysylglutamylglycylalany lphenylalanylvalylprolylphenylalanylvalylthreonylleucylglycylaspa rtylprolylglycylisoleucylglutamylglutaminylserylleucyllysylisoleu cylaspartylthreonylleucylisoleucylglutamylalanylglycylalanylaspar tylalanylleucylglutamylleucylglycylisoleucylprolylphenylalanylser ylaspartylprolylleucylalanylaspartylglycylprolylthreonyliso leucylglutaminylaspfraginylalanylthreonylleucylarginylalanylpheny lalanylalanylalanylglycylvalylthreonylprolylalanylglutaminylcyste inylphenylalanylglutamylmethionylleucylalanylleucylisoleucylargin ylglutaminyllysylhistidylprolylthreonylisoleucylprolylisoleucylgl ycylleucylleucylmethionyltyrosylalanylasparaginylleucylvalylpheny lalanylasparaginyllysylglycylisoleucylaspartylglutamylphenylalany ltyrosylalanylglutaminylcysteinylglutamyllysylvalylglycylva lylaspartylserylvalylleucylvalylalanylaspartylvalylprolylvalylglu taminylglutamylserylalanylprolylphenylalanylarginylglutaminylalan ylalanylleucylarginylhistidylasparaginylvalylalanylprolylisoleucy lphenylalanylisoleucylcysteinylprolylprolylaspartylalanylaspartyl aspartylaspartylleucylleucylarginylglutaminylisoleucylalanylseryl tyrosylglycylarginylglycyltyrosylthreonyltyrosylleucylleucylseryl arginylalanylglycylvalylthreonylglycylalanylglutamylasparag inylarginylalanylalanylleucylprolylleucylasparaginylhistidylleucy lvalylalanyllysylleucyllysylglutamyltyrosylasparaginylalanylalany lprolylprolylleucylglutaminylglycylphenylalanylglycylisoleucylser ylalanylprolylaspartylglutaminylvalyllysylalanylalanylisoleucylas partylalanylglycylalanylalanylglycylalanylisoleucylserylglycylser ylalanylisoleucylvalyllysylisoleucylisoleucylglutamylglutaminylhi stidylasparaginylisoleucylglutamylprolylglutamyllysylmethio nylleucylalanylalanylleucyllysylvalylphenylalanylvalylglutaminylp rolylmethion yllysylalanylalanylthreonylarginylserine.

2Trievers  posted on  2005-02-19   9:41:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#104. To: 2Trievers (#103)

I thought the longest word was YaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYad daYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYaddaYadda addaYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYad daYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYadda addaYaddaYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYad daYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaY addaYaddaYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYadd aYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaa ddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYadd aYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaa ddaYaddaYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYaddaYadda?

But hey - what do I know???

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-02-19   9:56:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#105. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#104)

........ But hey - what do I know???

'Tis best to admit to "nothing" ... that way you can't be pinned down ... being blonde helps too.

2Trievers  posted on  2005-02-19   10:04:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#106. To: 2Trievers (#105)

'Tis best to admit to "nothing" ... that way you can't be pinned down ... being blonde helps too.

I ain't blonde, but I am HEAVILY MEDICATED, does that count???

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-02-19   10:06:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#107. To: 2Trievers (#96)

So...God must exist because we only notice when he's NOT around?

No wonder I can't fathom Christians.

If the Creation is flawed, which even the Bible says it must be, then so must the Creator, IMO. That passive statement "sin entered the world" places no blame, really, but God created the agent of sin, (I'm speaking in the language of Christian myth now) Lucifer himself,

If He knew all things before he "breathed" this place into existence, he can't blame all the mistakes on our exercising of free will.

Even a third rate programmer debugs his stuff before compiling it.

He made the mess, He can clean it up.

Sorry, I still don't buy it, the nice story notwithstanding. Interesting read, though, despite the theo-philosophical sleight of hand. :)

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-02-19   10:22:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#108. To: Samuel Gray (#107)

Interesting read, though, despite the theo-philosophical sleight of hand. :)

Which is why I find Eastern thought so interesting ... besides if you meet Buddha along the path you get to kill him ... put me somewhere beween *Henry Miller and Buddha ... yep. That's where I am.

* I have found God, but He is insufficient. I am only spiritually dead. Physically, I am alive. Morally, I am free. The world I leave behind is a menagerie. The dawn is breaking on a new world. A jungle world, in which the lean spirits roam with sharp claws. If I am a hyena, I am a lean and hungry one. I go forth to fatten myself. ~~ Henry Miller, Tropic of Cancer

2Trievers  posted on  2005-02-19   10:38:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#109. To: 2Trievers (#108)

I like the Henry Miller approach. I bet the social functions are a hell of a lot more fun...

He was exactly right...I have found God, but He is insufficient. "We'll understand it better by and by" or "we see through a glass, darkly", and that's supposed to fix it all?

Pie-in-the-sky-when-you-die-by-and-by. I'll have my dessert up front, while I'm here, thanks.

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-02-19   10:41:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#110. To: Samuel Gray (#109)

Yes. Can you imagine the women on the Titanic refusing dessert because it would make them fat. WHY?

2Trievers  posted on  2005-02-19   10:45:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#111. To: 2Trievers (#110)

I don't get that either. Instead of singing Nearer My God To Thee (a myth, I know), I'd have been trying to uh...well, let's say use my remaining moments of life asking for "permission to come aboard" from the female passengers.

The diet thing gets in your head though. I was in Sam's Club when this diet was in full swing, and there are all these people offering you samples of stuff you can't have. This woman shoved a bottle of something toward me and asked if I'd consider trying their new laundry detergent. I automatically replied "how many grams of carbs does it have?"

;)

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-02-19   10:54:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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