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Title: Fossil Reanalysis Pushes Back Origin of Homo sapiens
Source:
sciam
URL Source: http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?ch ... DFE-C0B7-1213-80B783414B7F0000
Published: Feb 17, 2005
Author: unlisted
Post Date: 2005-02-17 05:49:36 by 2Trievers
Keywords: Reanalysis, sapiens, Fossil
Views: 2252
Comments: 185
A new analysis of human remains first discovered in 1967 suggests that they are in fact much older than previously believed. The results, published today in the journal Nature, push back the emergence of our species by nearly 35,000 years. Ian McDougall of the Australian National University in Canberra and his colleagues worked with two well-known fossil finds known as Omo I and Omo II, which were recovered from Ethiopia's Kibish Formation by Richard Leakey. The remains include two partial skulls as well as arm, leg, foot and pelvis bones for Omo I. "Anthropologists said they looked very different in their evolutionary status," remarks study co-author Frank Brown of the University of Utah. "Omo I appeared to be essentially modern Homo sapiens and Omo II appeared to be more primitive." At the time, the bones were dated to 130,000 years ago, based on radioactive decay of uranium and thorium from oyster shells found nearby. This time the scientists returned to the southern Ethiopian site and identified the resting places of both individuals. They also unearthed another part of a femur bone for Omo I that fits together with the original remains. The researchers then analyzed the volcanic ash layers above and below the river sediment that contained the fossils using argon dating. They determined that the rock just below the fossils dated to 196,000 years ago. Because the layers of the Kibish Formation formed quickly during wet seasons that inundated the area with organic matter, the team posits that the bones are only slightly younger than this underlying layer. In addition, a layer of ash more than 150 feet above the burial sites dates to 104,000 years old, putting a limit on their age. Using other evidence, which drained from the Nile and the Omo rivers onto the Mediterranean seafloor, the researchers attest that the Omo fossils are most likely no younger than 190,000 years old. Previously the oldest known traces of our species were fossils from Herto, Ethiopia, that date to about 160,000 years ago. The older age of the Omo remains is concordant with dates suggested by genetic studies for the origin of our species, says study co-author John Fleagle of Stony Brook University. He adds that "as modern human anatomy is documented at earlier and earlier sites, it becomes evident that there was a great time gap between the appearance of the modern skeleton and 'modern' behavior."
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#94. To: Aric2000 (#93)
Oh yeah, the board can really tell you've done well in your rejection of the Bible...flawless character you have, lots of empathy and self-control. *sarcasm* About as impressive as a baby crapping his diapers.
When you battle faith , Aric, a system of reasoning which is not founded on pragmatics, the challenges you suggest may never be received in the same light as they are offered, especially in the tone you offered Don. Can it be that science and logic are also a form of religion .........faith in mans perception of the universe by the means of experiment and logic. And by golly, it comes from the same place. Don is a worthy opponent and deserves respect. At least he has mine.
I found this fun science v religion piece ... "LET ME EXPLAIN THE problem science has with Jesus Christ." The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to stand. "You're a Christian, aren't you, son?" "Yes, sir." "So you believe in God?" "Absolutely." "Is God good?" "Sure! God's good." "Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?" "Yes." "Are you good or evil?" "The Bible says I'm evil." The professor grins knowingly. "Ahh! THE BIBLE!" He considers for a moment. "Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help them? Would you try?" "Yes sir, I would." "So you're good...!" "I wouldn't say that." "Why not say that? You would help a sick and maimed person if you could... in fact most of us would if we could... God doesn't. [No answer.] "He doesn't, does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer even though he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you answer that one?" [No answer] The elderly man is sympathetic. "No, you can't, can you?" He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax. In philosophy, you have to go easy with the new ones. "Let's start again, young fella." "Is God good?" "Er... Yes." "Is Satan good?" "No." "Where does Satan come from?" The student falters. "From... God..." "That's right. God made Satan, didn't he?" The elderly man runs his bony fingers through his thinning hair and turns to the smirking, student audience. "I think we're going to have a lot of fun this semester, ladies and gentlemen." He turns back to the Christian. "Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?" "Yes, sir." "Evil's everywhere, isn't it? Did God make everything?" "Yes." "Who created evil? [No answer] "Is there sickness in this world? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness. All the terrible things - do they exist in this world? " The student squirms on his feet. "Yes." "Who created them? " [No answer] The professor suddenly shouts at his student. "WHO CREATED THEM? TELL ME, PLEASE!" The professor closes in for the kill and climbs into the Christian's face. In a still small voice: "God created all evil, didn't He, son?" [No answer] The student tries to hold the steady, experienced gaze and fails. Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace the front of the classroom like an aging panther. The class is mesmerized. "Tell me," he continues, "How is it that this God is good if He created all evil throughout all time?" The professor swishes his arms around to encompass the wickedness of the world. "All the hatred, the brutality, all the pain, all the torture, all the death and ugliness and all the suffering created by this good God is all over the world, isn't it, young man?" [No answer] "Don't you see it all over the place? Huh?" Pause. "Don't you?" The professor leans into the student's face again and whispers, "Is God good?" [No answer] "Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?" The student's voice betrays him and cracks. "Yes, professor. I do." The old man shakes his head sadly. "Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you? " "No, sir. I've never seen Him." "Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?" "No, sir. I have not." "Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your Jesus... in fact, do you have any sensory perception of your God whatsoever?" [No answer] "Answer me, please." "No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't." "You're AFRAID... you haven't?" "No, sir." "Yet you still believe in him?" "...yes..." "That takes FAITH!" The professor smiles sagely at the underling. "According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son? Where is your God now?" [The student doesn't answer] "Sit down, please." The Christian sits...Defeated. Another Christian raises his hand. "Professor, may I address the class?" The professor turns and smiles. "Ah, another Christian in the vanguard! Come, come, young man. Speak some proper wisdom to the gathering." The Christian looks around the room. "Some interesting points you are making, sir. Now I've got a question for you. Is there such thing as heat?" "Yes," the professor replies. "There's heat." "Is there such a thing as cold?" "Yes, son, there's cold too." "No, sir, there isn't." The professor's grin freezes. The room suddenly goes very cold. The second Christian continues. "You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat but we don't have anything called 'cold'. We can hit 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold, otherwise we would be able to go colder than 458 - You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it." Silence. A pin drops somewhere in the classroom. "Is there such a thing as darkness, professor?" "That's a dumb question, son. What is night if it isn't darkness? What are you getting at...?" "So you say there is such a thing as darkness?" "Yes..." "You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something, it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define the word. In reality, Darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker and give me a jar of it. Can you...give me a jar of darker darkness, professor?" Despite himself, the professor smiles at the young effrontery before him. This will indeed be a good semester. "Would you mind telling us what your point is, young man?" "Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with and so your conclusion must be in error...." The professor goes toxic. "Flawed...? How dare you...!"" "Sir, may I explain what I mean?" The class is all ears. "Explain... oh, explain..." The professor makes an admirable effort to regain control. Suddenly he is affability itself. He waves his hand to silence the class, for the student to continue. "You are working on the premise of duality," the Christian explains. "That for example there is life and then there's death; a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science cannot even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism but has never seen, much less fully understood them. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, merely the absence of it." The young man holds up a newspaper he takes from the desk of a neighbor who has been reading it. "Here is one of the most disgusting tabloids this country hosts, professor. Is there such a thing as immorality?" "Of course there is, now look..." "Wrong again, sir. You see, immorality is merely the absence of morality. Is there such thing as injustice? No. Injustice is the absence of justice. Is there such a thing as evil?" The Christian pauses. "Isn't evil the absence of good?" The professor's face has turned an alarming color. He is so angry he is temporarily speechless. The Christian continues. "If there is evil in the world, professor, and we all agree there is, then God, if he exists, must be accomplishing a work through the agency of evil. What is that work, God is accomplishing? The Bible tells us it is to see if each one of us will, of our own free will, choose good over evil." The professor bridles. "As a philosophical scientist, I don't vie this matter as having anything to do with any choice; as a realist, I absolutely do not recognize the concept of God or any other theological factor as being part of the world equation because God is not observable." "I would have thought that the absence of God's moral code in this world is probably one of the most observable phenomena going," the Christian replies. "Newspapers make billions of dollars reporting it every week! Tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?" "If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do." "Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?" The professor makes a sucking sound with his teeth and gives his student a silent, stony stare. "Professor. Since no-one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a priest?" "I'll overlook your impudence in the light of our philosophical discussion. Now, have you quite finished?" the professor hisses. "So you don't accept God's moral code to do what is righteous?" "I believe in what is - that's science!" "Ahh! SCIENCE!" the student's face splits into a grin. "Sir, you rightly state that science is the study of observed phenomena. Science too is a premise which is flawed..." "SCIENCE IS FLAWED..?" the professor splutters. The class is in uproar. The Christian remains standing until the commotion has subsided. "To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, may I give you an example of what I mean?" The professor wisely keeps silent. The Christian looks around the room. "Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the professor's brain?" The class breaks out in laughter. The Christian points towards his elderly, crumbling tutor. "Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain... felt the professor's brain, touched or smelt the professor's brain?" No one appears to have done so. The Christian shakes his head sadly. "It appears no-one here has had any sensory perception of the professor's brain whatsoever. Well, according to the rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science, I DECLARE that the professor has no brain." The class is in chaos. The Christian sits.
BRAVO! BRAVO!!! ENCORE!! ENCORE!! I bow humbly before your resoning skills, m'lady!
What is it with you evo's? Is it possible in your mind that BOTH theories exist? That God created the heavens and the earth and somwhere along the way creatures evolved? I simply cannot understand the hatred - or what comes acrossed as hatred. As far as I am concerned, evolution may be a "science", but if it is, it was Gods will. Just as it is God's will that people have free will to believe as they choose.
Hehehe ... it's all a fun discussion ... but I see no reason to get all twiterpated about it ... life it too fun ... and my motto: If you have any doubt about it – you’re correct.
huh??? that sounds DIRTY! I wasn't twiterpated - just don't understand the "animosity" between the camps. I mean, who says that both camps are not correct? My motto is now "KOKO HAPPY SEE MILK BAGS FUN" hehehhee
Hey CAPPS are ya still up or did ya get up early today? Matthew 7:6
Matthew 7:6 Got back up at 4, went back to bed at 6, got up again at 7. Timothy 2;13
It's words ..we always get hung up on the "words" ... especially the long complicated ones ... This is supposedly the longest word ... but it is chemistry and they don't use words... methionylglutaminylarginyltyrosylglutamylserylleucylphenylalanyla lanylglutaminylleucyllysylglutamylarginyllysylglutamylglycylalany lphenylalanylvalylprolylphenylalanylvalylthreonylleucylglycylaspa rtylprolylglycylisoleucylglutamylglutaminylserylleucyllysylisoleu cylaspartylthreonylleucylisoleucylglutamylalanylglycylalanylaspar tylalanylleucylglutamylleucylglycylisoleucylprolylphenylalanylser ylaspartylprolylleucylalanylaspartylglycylprolylthreonyliso leucylglutaminylaspfraginylalanylthreonylleucylarginylalanylpheny lalanylalanylalanylglycylvalylthreonylprolylalanylglutaminylcyste inylphenylalanylglutamylmethionylleucylalanylleucylisoleucylargin ylglutaminyllysylhistidylprolylthreonylisoleucylprolylisoleucylgl ycylleucylleucylmethionyltyrosylalanylasparaginylleucylvalylpheny lalanylasparaginyllysylglycylisoleucylaspartylglutamylphenylalany ltyrosylalanylglutaminylcysteinylglutamyllysylvalylglycylva lylaspartylserylvalylleucylvalylalanylaspartylvalylprolylvalylglu taminylglutamylserylalanylprolylphenylalanylarginylglutaminylalan ylalanylleucylarginylhistidylasparaginylvalylalanylprolylisoleucy lphenylalanylisoleucylcysteinylprolylprolylaspartylalanylaspartyl aspartylaspartylleucylleucylarginylglutaminylisoleucylalanylseryl tyrosylglycylarginylglycyltyrosylthreonyltyrosylleucylleucylseryl arginylalanylglycylvalylthreonylglycylalanylglutamylasparag inylarginylalanylalanylleucylprolylleucylasparaginylhistidylleucy lvalylalanyllysylleucyllysylglutamyltyrosylasparaginylalanylalany lprolylprolylleucylglutaminylglycylphenylalanylglycylisoleucylser ylalanylprolylaspartylglutaminylvalyllysylalanylalanylisoleucylas partylalanylglycylalanylalanylglycylalanylisoleucylserylglycylser ylalanylisoleucylvalyllysylisoleucylisoleucylglutamylglutaminylhi stidylasparaginylisoleucylglutamylprolylglutamyllysylmethio nylleucylalanylalanylleucyllysylvalylphenylalanylvalylglutaminylp rolylmethion yllysylalanylalanylthreonylarginylserine.
I thought the longest word was YaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYad daYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYaddaYadda addaYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYad daYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYadda addaYaddaYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYad daYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaY addaYaddaYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYadd aYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaa ddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYadd aYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaa ddaYaddaYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYaddaYaddaaddaYaddaYadda? But hey - what do I know???
'Tis best to admit to "nothing" ... that way you can't be pinned down ... being blonde helps too.
I ain't blonde, but I am HEAVILY MEDICATED, does that count???
So...God must exist because we only notice when he's NOT around? No wonder I can't fathom Christians. If the Creation is flawed, which even the Bible says it must be, then so must the Creator, IMO. That passive statement "sin entered the world" places no blame, really, but God created the agent of sin, (I'm speaking in the language of Christian myth now) Lucifer himself, If He knew all things before he "breathed" this place into existence, he can't blame all the mistakes on our exercising of free will. Even a third rate programmer debugs his stuff before compiling it. He made the mess, He can clean it up. Sorry, I still don't buy it, the nice story notwithstanding. Interesting read, though, despite the theo-philosophical sleight of hand. :)
Which is why I find Eastern thought so interesting ... besides if you meet Buddha along the path you get to kill him ... put me somewhere beween *Henry Miller and Buddha ... yep. That's where I am. * I have found God, but He is insufficient. I am only spiritually dead. Physically, I am alive. Morally, I am free. The world I leave behind is a menagerie. The dawn is breaking on a new world. A jungle world, in which the lean spirits roam with sharp claws. If I am a hyena, I am a lean and hungry one. I go forth to fatten myself. ~~ Henry Miller, Tropic of Cancer
I like the Henry Miller approach. I bet the social functions are a hell of a lot more fun... He was exactly right...I have found God, but He is insufficient. "We'll understand it better by and by" or "we see through a glass, darkly", and that's supposed to fix it all? Pie-in-the-sky-when-you-die-by-and-by. I'll have my dessert up front, while I'm here, thanks.
Yes. Can you imagine the women on the Titanic refusing dessert because it would make them fat. WHY?
I don't get that either. Instead of singing Nearer My God To Thee (a myth, I know), I'd have been trying to uh...well, let's say use my remaining moments of life asking for "permission to come aboard" from the female passengers. The diet thing gets in your head though. I was in Sam's Club when this diet was in full swing, and there are all these people offering you samples of stuff you can't have. This woman shoved a bottle of something toward me and asked if I'd consider trying their new laundry detergent. I automatically replied "how many grams of carbs does it have?" ;)
Interesting statement.. so are you saying that because you see God as rules and regulations.. that if you reject Him, the matter of right/wrong then vanishes?
OMG. Play this Shatner. Iffin' you are on dial-up ... fugetaboutit. Soo..Bye, bye miss American Pie Did you write the book of love
I like the liberation of Miller's idea. It sounds a little predatory, it's just the imagery he uses there, more of a metaphor for feeding the flesh, but yeah, why not? If no one gets hurt, why not do what you want, instead of depending on some extraterrestrial arbiter of Good/Evil with a celestial retirement system?
Oh God...if Hell does have a soundtrack/Muzak system, it'll be Shatner's album playing over and over on an 8 track player with bad speakers.
"... what's all the fuss? Why did I bother?" Heh.
Cold is the absence of heat. Darkness is the absence of light. What we so laughingly call "the problem of evil" bedevils us all, and rightly so. I do not believe that either secular philosophers or religious ones have solved this problem to anyone's satisfaction. The horror of it all is that how easily "good" is transformed into evil. Look at our common history. The Bolsheviks in their civil war created a secular religion based on a theory of class warfare which they believed entitled them to shoot and starve millions of Ukrainian peasants in the name of the greatest good for the greatest number. A thousand years before, the Franks followed the cross across the Mediterranean and laid siege to Antioch in the name of good and true religion and, if Christian sources may be relied upon, took Jerusalem in 1099 slaughtering its inhabitants without regard to sex, age or religion. They stained the name of Christendom in the hearts of the East to this day. In our time, our nation by means of finance and diplomacy, had a large share in fostering war between Iran and Iraq. We used our Department of Agriculture to ship millions of tons of wheat to Saddam who turned that into cash for his war with the Iranians. We facilitated fraudulent loans of many millions of dollars to a man the Defense Department called "a force for stability in the Middle East." Despite the millions given him, Saddam was heavily in debt after the war to people like the Kuwaitis who were encouraged by us to keep the financial pressure on his government, who were encouraged to drill into his oil fields and to goad him into a war that our diplomats hinted to Saddam was none of our business. We know what followed: war, sanctions, more war, and great sacrifice of life and treasure. Each step of the way was sanctioned by a greater good that justified an evil. And that evil was not punished. Instead yet more evil was done, and only the people suffered. Let us take an individual case. That of the Ohio auto worker. Mister John Demjanjuk. He was arrested and called to account in part for crimes committed by a National Socialist regime sixty years ago. He was identified by our government as being a notorious concentration camp guard known for a penchant for brutality and arbitrary acts of homicide. Men in our government knew that he and "Ivan the Terrible" were indeed not the same person, yet they persisted in framing a case that would lead Mister Demjanjuk straight to the hangman's scaffold. Why? Why hang and innocent man? It was to promote the greater good of publicly avenging wrongs that had been done to innocents many years before in absolute disregard of justice and the merits of an individual case. There was a "greater good." I take these examples to show what is obvious, and you and I can think of thousand of others. I highlight these because they are often on my mind and because they tell us something. 1) We are not always sure what good is. 2) Evil may masqueraded as good. 3) Power will always use our moral confusion for its own ends. 4) All our codes and good books are no defense from evil, and they may be turned in the service of evil time and time again. Islam will fail us. Christianity will fail us. Socialism will fail us. Why have I used illustration here and not analogy to make this case? Because I choose to look at the world the way it is. I am looking at forces to see how the operate on subjects and materia. I have used illustration rather then analogy, because analogy is a dangerous logical tool. Analogy is the pedagogue's tool. It is used by pedants in order to acquaint unseasoned minds with concepts that they are not quite ready to grasp in their entirety. Analogy may be legitimately employed by the teacher who knows his subject and may be trusted to lead his student from a level of crude apprehension to that of conceptual mastery. So let us test your analogy. In order to absolve God, whoever he may be, from responsibility for evil, you say that evil is the absence of good as cold is the absence of heat or darkness is the absence of light. But the "agency of evil" used by God to test mankind is not a null set. It is a positive entity. It resides in all our hearts as the victory of self over other. It lives in the lust for power and the exploitation of the suffering of others of one's kind. The problem here is that you cannot remove evil by simply "bringing light." We have had generations of light bringers and we still have evil. In one degree or another we probably always will. Darkness is [i]always[/i] banished by light. Cold is irresistibly vanquished by Heat. But good and evil may exist together, and more often than not reside quite comfortably in the same heart. "Love thy neighbor as thyself"; that is the whole of the law," says Rabbi Hillel. But I wonder if that is enough. It is not enough to love to live lawfully because "love" is an indulgence of the spirit. That same spirit may be equally gratified by the pain or by the pleasure of one's neighbor. Evil is an entity. Not an external one a shaitan, a devil or Satan. It resides within us always, and it is the task of just men to tame it within the bounds of well tested systems of ethics. Evil is an entity whose outlines are not always clear, but which is always knocking at our door. It is not the absence of good. That is where your analogy breaks down. As a last note I might suggest that all of us might be better served setting aside this "problem of evil" and meditating a good long while on answering the question "What is justice?" Because I believe that those throughout history who have labored to answer that question have done more to alleviate mankind's suffering than have the "bringers of light" whose banners always precede our divisions into bloody combat. (The "humanist" sits.)
No man is an island...
True, but I'm working toward peninsular status, and will dig the canal at some later date. What'd you think of randge's essay?
See? There's a bit of Buddha in all of us.
I'll get back to you later .. have to wash my hair ... it hurts.
I'm from the South, people are way more likely to recognize "Bubbha" than "Buddha."
I'll not fault you for that.
The cures of all finite ills are also the causes; every cultural outcome is its own motivation, its own petri dish; every father his own child, and every mary is her own lamb. Science: What you know.
Sort of a Zen way of saying "go **** yourself?" ;) Too much religion talk for Saturday. Six months till football starts again.
Hmmm . . . Now I need to wash my hair.
*sigh ... you'll never get it ..........................Freedom is being free from pro or con.
LOL ...Standing in mankind’s library it was noted: “Leave out the Physical Sciences and it’s all fiction.”
............................and football.
I'm free from all of it, watching a battlefield reconstruction of Agincourt.
That's true. And partly because the "Social Sceinces" have a disregard for facts over and above presumptuous theory. These theories spawn a faulty lexicon and bad logic. The earnest student soon loses allhis bearings. I got out of taking Sociology by taking Economics at school. Traded one sorry discipline for another.
Who's winning??
Very good Capps. what is with me, is the fact that Creationists claim that their myth overrides science, when in fact it is NOT science. Creationism and evolution has absolutely NOTHING in common, one is science based, empirical evidence etc, and Creationism is faith based, and has nothing to with any type of scientific evidence. So, to somehow say that evolution is wrong because of creationism is NONSENSE. To completely disavow science, because of a religious faith is STUPID, it is emotionally based nonsense. Whenever I hear a creationist saying that evolution is wrong because of their religious beliefs, I pounce on that stupidity. It is just the way I am. Evolution is scientific, empirical, falsifiable. If you wish to ba a creationist, WONDERFUL, do, but do not tell others that science is wrong because you BELIEVE something else. I am a Deist, I believe there is a God, not the way that you believe in a God, but I believe there is some Higher being. At the same time, I do not say that evolution is wrong because of my religious beliefs. They are 2 SEPARATE things. Science is science, religion is religion, they have NOTHING in common whatsoever, and one CANNOT and WILL not disprove the other. And until fundamentalists mature enough to make that realization, I will stomp on them whenever I run across them.
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#95. To: Aric2000, Don (#93)
#96. To: All (#95)
#97. To: 2Trievers (#96)
#98. To: Aric2000 (#90)
#99. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#97)
#100. To: 2Trievers (#99)
twiterpated
#101. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#100)
#102. To: Zipporah (#101)
Hey CAPPS are ya still up or did ya get up early today?
#103. To: CAPPSMADNESS, Samuel Gray (#100)
#104. To: 2Trievers (#103)
#105. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#104)
........ But hey - what do I know???
#106. To: 2Trievers (#105)
'Tis best to admit to "nothing" ... that way you can't be pinned down ... being blonde helps too.
#107. To: 2Trievers (#96)
#108. To: Samuel Gray (#107)
Interesting read, though, despite the theo-philosophical sleight of hand. :)
#109. To: 2Trievers (#108)
#110. To: Samuel Gray (#109)
#111. To: 2Trievers (#110)
#112. To: Samuel Gray (#109)
I like the Henry Miller approach. I bet the social functions are a hell of a lot more fun... Pie-in-the-sky-when-you-die-by-and-by. I'll have my dessert up front, while I'm here, thanks.
#113. To: Samuel Gray (#109)
Pie-in-the-sky-when-you-die-by-and-by.
Drove my Chevy to the levee but the levee was dry
And good ol' boys were drinking whisky and rye?
Singing this will be the day that I die
this will be the day that I die
And do you have faith in God above
If the Bible tells you so
Do you believe in rock n roll
Can music save your mortal soul
Then you can teach me to dance real slow
#114. To: Zipporah (#112)
#115. To: 2Trievers (#113)
#116. To: Samuel Gray (#115)
#117. To: 2Trievers (#96)
Evil is the absence of good.
#118. To: Samuel Gray (#114)
If no one gets hurt, why not do what you want, instead of depending on some extraterrestrial arbiter of Good/Evil with a celestial retirement system?
#119. To: Zipporah, randge (#118)
No man is an island...
#120. To: Zipporah (#118)
No man is an island...
#121. To: randge (#117)
#122. To: 2Trievers (#120)
#123. To: Samuel Gray (#122)
I'm from the South.............
#124. To: randge (#117)
1) We are not always sure what good is. 2) Evil may masqueraded as good. 3) Power will always use our moral confusion for its own ends. 4) All our codes and good books are no defense from evil, and they may be turned in the service of evil time and time again. Islam will fail us. Christianity will fail us. Socialism will fail us.
Religion: What you like.
Corollary: If man didn’t know so much there wouldn’t be so much that he dislikes. [Look at all the other species: They only have one item on their “No, No List.”]
#125. To: 2Trievers (#124)
every father his own child
#126. To: 2Trievers (#124)
#127. To: Samuel Gray (#125)
#128. To: randge (#126)
Only a rebel thinker can face that.
#129. To: Samuel Gray (#125)
#130. To: 2Trievers (#129)
#131. To: 2Trievers (#128)
#132. To: Samuel Gray (#130)
#133. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#98)
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